Just Ignore Jill she represents almost no one. It is just not that hard.
Even Ralph Nader, the most recognized and influential figure in Jill's party said he wouldn't vote for her. (The article is from before Biden dropped out, but none of his reasons for voting Biden are invalidated by a Harris ticket.)
Even fellow Greens are smart enough to see that a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump — and what a danger that is to American democracy.
Now that Nader fellow seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders
a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump
this is election misinformation. it's illegal to count a vote for one candidate as a vote for another.
Yeah that's not what they meant.
Just Ignore Jill she represents almost no one
Well, it definitely seems as if the news and the democratic party isn't ignoring her.
Yeah they are. It's all pretty laughable. Everyone is aware that voting third party is throwing your vote away and this election is far too important for anyone serious to do that.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
This is your new schtick? Pathetic.
It's logic I learned from Lemmy. And it's accurate.
And it’s accurate.
It's the opposite of accurate.
It's dumb as shit and what does it say about you that you don't recognize that?
I think your comment of "It’s the opposite of accurate" is actually the opposite of accurate.
I'm wondering though, what does it say about you that you don’t recognize that? I hope you figure it out. Thanks, friend!
We're not friends.
You might not see me as a friend, but I definitely see you as one. Thanks!
Ok blocking you now. I'm officially tired of wasting my time talking about irrelevant Jill Stein. Have fun with the rest of your operation.
Ok, bye. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.
Everyone is aware that voting third party is throwing your vote away and this election is far too important for anyone serious to do that.
So was the last election ok to for third party? How about the one before that? And is the next one, when Trump Jr runs, ok for us vote third party then?
So just THIS 2024 election we shouldn't. But the other ones are ok. Right?
So just THIS 2024 election we shouldn’t. But the other ones are ok. Right?
If this election goes wrong it might be the last real one we get so, yes. Right.
yes. Right.
So we can definitely vote 3rd party the next election? I just want to make sure we are on the same page.
I mean, I'm still voting 3rd party this election, but it'll be good that you can calm down being so mad about it when I continue to post third party news after the upcoming election. You can finally relax!
So was it ok to vote 3rd party in 2016? And 2020? Or is just THIS election that we shouldn't?
we shouldn’t
Anyone can vote for anyone they see fit in any election. If that means voting 3rd party in this election, then it means throwing away an actually meaningful vote.
I'm not mad? What makes you say that? You do seem to like to twist my comments. It's one of the many reasons I don't trust you and question your motives.
Anyone can vote for anyone they see fit in any election.
Oh ok, so you DO support and respect peoples right to vote for who they want to, even in THIS election. Right?
Just wanna clear the air.
It’s one of the many reasons I don’t trust you and question your motives.
Yeah? So what do you think my motives are?
what do you think my motives are?
Unimportant
So if my motives are so lame as to be unimportant, then surely I don't have much influence over things. So I may as well just post what I want when I want. And you don't have to feel worried about any votes. And we can be friends now, right?!
I wasn't being insulting. It doesn't matter your motivation and the truth of that motivation is unknowable anyway.
I'm more annoyed that the politics feed is taken over with an outsized share of third party distraction news, when there is so much going on that's actually meaningful.
I’m more annoyed that the politics feed is taken over with an outsized share of third party distraction news, when there is so much going on that’s actually meaningful.
You think the share of third party news is "outsized" compared to all the pro-harris/pro-democrat articles?! I just post the articles that the news writes. So obviously news orgs think there is something to it since they are writing so many articles about third parties. I don't write them, I just post them.
If there were less written, there'd be less posted.
2008 was pretty safe. 2012 too. Every election since then, it's been too close and the stakes too high.
So not just THIS election then.
Doesn't matter tho. I'm still voting third party. And I've created a community that allows even more diversity in political opinion including more republican and third party posts, in addition to democrat posts. So you may wanna block me now and save yourself the frustration.
If it doesn't matter, why even ask the question?
You seem confused, how can I best help you?
You ask for criteria on when it's too important to vote 3rd party. I give you criteria. You say, it doesn't matter, I'm still voting 3rd party. What was the point of that whole interaction if nothing could possibly change your mind?
Does anything I say ever change your mind?
I dunno about you specifically but one of your ilk convinced me that Social Democracy is not really socialism and is more like a flavor of Liberalism. Just off the top of my head. Another one convinced me that some forms of anarchy are a viable system of government, though not my preferred one.
but one of your ilk
I don't understand. My ilk? Care to clarify what ilk I am of?
And because people you knew talked about social democracy and anarchy, you decided that I must have some sinister agenda?! I'm not clear about the connection you are making.
It'll be okay to vote third party (in a social sense since it's already allowed legally) when we change the election systems that we use so that third party votes are not spoiler votes. Let's abandon First Past the Post and use something like Ranked Choice Voting or better.
Let’s abandon First Past the Post
Sure, but the dem party and the repub party don't want to really change that.
So let's put pressure on our government to do that instead of trying to shoot ourselves in the foot.
By voting third party we ARE pressuring our gov to do that.
No, you're just making it easier for the fascists to win.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
I already explained to you why that's bullshit. I can only assume that because you're bringing it up again 4 days later, that your intention is to waste my time.
Nah, I'm just voting for the person I like best and who best matches my values. As I would recommend you do. Thank you!
And in the process, you're just making it easier for the fascists to win.
Monk has had her Lemmy account for 6 weeks. In that time she’s posted nearly 1100 posts and over 2200 comments. Assuming she’s doing all the posting and commenting herself, and assuming (conservatively) 12 hours of Lemmy time per day, she is posting or commenting non-stop every 9 minutes.
We'd have the first past the post (FPTP) issue in every election, so in that one sense, no.
However, a lot of folks feel that it's the specific GOP candidate who's a threat. They also make an assumption that if he lost this time, then he wouldn't be able to run again in a presidential election in the US in the future (for being too old, for having lost twice, perhaps for being in jail, etc).
I feel like the assumption part is too optimistic, and so in 2028 the same set of arguments will come out. And then they'll say we've done this in the last three elections in a row, so we know it works, that's why we gotta keep doing it.
And perhaps that's the true danger - that resistance to 3rd party choices in general becomes normalized.
TLDR - FPTP is bad.
And perhaps that’s the true danger - that resistance to 3rd party choices in general becomes normalized.
Exactly! Great post.
Why are you even worrying about elections other than the one in front of us? Droning about past elections and ones beyond the one in front of us isn’t going to win anybody over. What’s done is done and what is not in front of us is irrelevant.
It’s just what it is.
Why are you even worrying about elections other than the one in front of us?
Because every election since as long as I have been voting, people say variations of "Well voting third party is fine, but not THIS election. THIS election is too important!"
Which is what the OP I was replying to said.
I've been voting since 1988. And i have heard this every election. So guess what? I've decided that this election isn't any more or less important than any election. And I'm proudly voting third party. :)
It’s just what it is.
Rabble rabble. You know what it means.
Actually I don't know what that means. Which is why I said it in my last post.
Right? I imagine Stein and the Green party would prefer that - rather than having to go to court all the time to make a case for why they should remain on the ballot.
Yeah. And she paid to get a seat with Putin. Some how I doubt “message of peace” means the same thing.
Rather than arguing that Stein's goals were unrealistic, or that she's a mere spoiler, or that she's an unwitting tool of Russia, Ocasio-Cortez made a different charge: That the Green Party candidate is simply bad at politics.
Sets aside all the obvious criticisms that everyone is aware of by now and simply goes for the jugular. Attagirl AOC 😍
::: spoiler Yahoo News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Yahoo News:
I post WAY less about her than other subjects. Feel free to check my post history and give us a percentage.
I post when the new news articles get written about her. I post about other third parties as well. She is written about more often. That's not me, that's news orgs.
I like jill stein, but it's the news orgs that keep writing about her. Not me. And I'm not voting for her.
Fair enough, you ALSO post anti-Democrat and pro-Republican stuff a lot🤣
Funny you say that. Because actually, the hateful comments and attempts to silence me here just pushed me to create a new Lemmy community where even more diverse political opinions can be shared.
So, in a way, the hate and false accusations I received here directly led to the creation of a new community where even more Republican and third-party views will now be discussed.
Isn’t that ironic? By trying to quiet me, you just made me speak up louder. Now the very views that you wanted to limit, are going be even more available. Well done! :)
I'm just glad you stopped pretending you're not a Republican.
What do you mean? I'm not voting republican and i never have. So not sure what you mean.
Just Ignore Jill she represents almost no one. It is just not that hard.
Even Ralph Nader, the most recognized and influential figure in Jill's party said he wouldn't vote for her. (The article is from before Biden dropped out, but none of his reasons for voting Biden are invalidated by a Harris ticket.)
Even fellow Greens are smart enough to see that a vote for Stein is a vote for Trump — and what a danger that is to American democracy.
Now that Nader fellow seems like he’s got a good head on his shoulders
this is election misinformation. it's illegal to count a vote for one candidate as a vote for another.
Yeah that's not what they meant.
Well, it definitely seems as if the news and the democratic party isn't ignoring her.
Yeah they are. It's all pretty laughable. Everyone is aware that voting third party is throwing your vote away and this election is far too important for anyone serious to do that.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
This is your new schtick? Pathetic.
It's logic I learned from Lemmy. And it's accurate.
It's the opposite of accurate. It's dumb as shit and what does it say about you that you don't recognize that?
I think your comment of "It’s the opposite of accurate" is actually the opposite of accurate.
I'm wondering though, what does it say about you that you don’t recognize that? I hope you figure it out. Thanks, friend!
We're not friends.
You might not see me as a friend, but I definitely see you as one. Thanks!
Ok blocking you now. I'm officially tired of wasting my time talking about irrelevant Jill Stein. Have fun with the rest of your operation.
Ok, bye. Let me know if there is anything else I can do to help.
So was the last election ok to for third party? How about the one before that? And is the next one, when Trump Jr runs, ok for us vote third party then?
So just THIS 2024 election we shouldn't. But the other ones are ok. Right?
If this election goes wrong it might be the last real one we get so, yes. Right.
So we can definitely vote 3rd party the next election? I just want to make sure we are on the same page.
I mean, I'm still voting 3rd party this election, but it'll be good that you can calm down being so mad about it when I continue to post third party news after the upcoming election. You can finally relax!
So was it ok to vote 3rd party in 2016? And 2020? Or is just THIS election that we shouldn't?
Anyone can vote for anyone they see fit in any election. If that means voting 3rd party in this election, then it means throwing away an actually meaningful vote.
I'm not mad? What makes you say that? You do seem to like to twist my comments. It's one of the many reasons I don't trust you and question your motives.
Oh ok, so you DO support and respect peoples right to vote for who they want to, even in THIS election. Right?
Just wanna clear the air.
Yeah? So what do you think my motives are?
Unimportant
So if my motives are so lame as to be unimportant, then surely I don't have much influence over things. So I may as well just post what I want when I want. And you don't have to feel worried about any votes. And we can be friends now, right?!
I wasn't being insulting. It doesn't matter your motivation and the truth of that motivation is unknowable anyway.
I'm more annoyed that the politics feed is taken over with an outsized share of third party distraction news, when there is so much going on that's actually meaningful.
You think the share of third party news is "outsized" compared to all the pro-harris/pro-democrat articles?! I just post the articles that the news writes. So obviously news orgs think there is something to it since they are writing so many articles about third parties. I don't write them, I just post them.
If there were less written, there'd be less posted.
2008 was pretty safe. 2012 too. Every election since then, it's been too close and the stakes too high.
So not just THIS election then.
Doesn't matter tho. I'm still voting third party. And I've created a community that allows even more diversity in political opinion including more republican and third party posts, in addition to democrat posts. So you may wanna block me now and save yourself the frustration.
If it doesn't matter, why even ask the question?
You seem confused, how can I best help you?
You ask for criteria on when it's too important to vote 3rd party. I give you criteria. You say, it doesn't matter, I'm still voting 3rd party. What was the point of that whole interaction if nothing could possibly change your mind?
Does anything I say ever change your mind?
I dunno about you specifically but one of your ilk convinced me that Social Democracy is not really socialism and is more like a flavor of Liberalism. Just off the top of my head. Another one convinced me that some forms of anarchy are a viable system of government, though not my preferred one.
I don't understand. My ilk? Care to clarify what ilk I am of?
And because people you knew talked about social democracy and anarchy, you decided that I must have some sinister agenda?! I'm not clear about the connection you are making.
It'll be okay to vote third party (in a social sense since it's already allowed legally) when we change the election systems that we use so that third party votes are not spoiler votes. Let's abandon First Past the Post and use something like Ranked Choice Voting or better.
Sure, but the dem party and the repub party don't want to really change that.
So let's put pressure on our government to do that instead of trying to shoot ourselves in the foot.
By voting third party we ARE pressuring our gov to do that.
No, you're just making it easier for the fascists to win.
Every vote for Harris is stealing a vote from third-party candidates who represent real change. By sidelining those voices, you’re indirectly helping Trump win!
I already explained to you why that's bullshit. I can only assume that because you're bringing it up again 4 days later, that your intention is to waste my time.
Nah, I'm just voting for the person I like best and who best matches my values. As I would recommend you do. Thank you!
And in the process, you're just making it easier for the fascists to win.
Monk has had her Lemmy account for 6 weeks. In that time she’s posted nearly 1100 posts and over 2200 comments. Assuming she’s doing all the posting and commenting herself, and assuming (conservatively) 12 hours of Lemmy time per day, she is posting or commenting non-stop every 9 minutes.
We'd have the first past the post (FPTP) issue in every election, so in that one sense, no.
However, a lot of folks feel that it's the specific GOP candidate who's a threat. They also make an assumption that if he lost this time, then he wouldn't be able to run again in a presidential election in the US in the future (for being too old, for having lost twice, perhaps for being in jail, etc).
I feel like the assumption part is too optimistic, and so in 2028 the same set of arguments will come out. And then they'll say we've done this in the last three elections in a row, so we know it works, that's why we gotta keep doing it.
And perhaps that's the true danger - that resistance to 3rd party choices in general becomes normalized.
TLDR - FPTP is bad.
Exactly! Great post.
Why are you even worrying about elections other than the one in front of us? Droning about past elections and ones beyond the one in front of us isn’t going to win anybody over. What’s done is done and what is not in front of us is irrelevant.
It’s just what it is.
Because every election since as long as I have been voting, people say variations of "Well voting third party is fine, but not THIS election. THIS election is too important!"
Which is what the OP I was replying to said.
I've been voting since 1988. And i have heard this every election. So guess what? I've decided that this election isn't any more or less important than any election. And I'm proudly voting third party. :)
It’s just what it is.
Rabble rabble. You know what it means.
Actually I don't know what that means. Which is why I said it in my last post.
Digitty is doggity dog. You got it!
Are you ok?
Yea! Now you have the groove! Now you try!
Right? I imagine Stein and the Green party would prefer that - rather than having to go to court all the time to make a case for why they should remain on the ballot.
Peskov, Putin, and Michael Flynn... all so very well known for their support of progressive causes.
Wasn’t that at an RT dinner (RT is a Russian propaganda outlet.)
You'll have to ask Jill.
Or just ask google ;)
Yeah. And she paid to get a seat with Putin. Some how I doubt “message of peace” means the same thing.
Sets aside all the obvious criticisms that everyone is aware of by now and simply goes for the jugular. Attagirl AOC 😍
::: spoiler Yahoo News - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report) Information for Yahoo News:
::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://news.yahoo.com/news/progressives-arent-quite-sure-deal-170512476.html ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
I like AOC but I still like Jill Stein. :)
Yeah, we can all tell.
Right?! And I can like whoever I want. :)
Did I say you couldn't? No.
My point (which I'm pretty sure you understood) is that you post incessantly about Jill Stein. So it's painfully obvious that you like her.
Here's my post history: https://lemmy.world/u/UniversalMonk?page=1&sort=New&view=Posts
I post WAY less about her than other subjects. Feel free to check my post history and give us a percentage.
I post when the new news articles get written about her. I post about other third parties as well. She is written about more often. That's not me, that's news orgs.
I like jill stein, but it's the news orgs that keep writing about her. Not me. And I'm not voting for her.
Fair enough, you ALSO post anti-Democrat and pro-Republican stuff a lot🤣
Funny you say that. Because actually, the hateful comments and attempts to silence me here just pushed me to create a new Lemmy community where even more diverse political opinions can be shared.
So, in a way, the hate and false accusations I received here directly led to the creation of a new community where even more Republican and third-party views will now be discussed.
Isn’t that ironic? By trying to quiet me, you just made me speak up louder. Now the very views that you wanted to limit, are going be even more available. Well done! :)
I'm just glad you stopped pretending you're not a Republican.
What do you mean? I'm not voting republican and i never have. So not sure what you mean.