Blinken denounces civilian toll in Gaza, says ‘far too many Palestinians have been killed’
Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Friday gave one of his most direct condemnations of the civilian death toll in Gaza and said more needs to be done to “minimize harm to Palestinian civilians.”
Although Blinken commended Israel for its announcement of daily military pauses in areas of Northern Gaza and two evacuation corridors, he said that “there is more that can and should be done to minimize harm to Palestinian civilians.”
The top US diplomat has subtly shifted his messaging in the days since he departed the Middle East earlier this week to more directly voice condemnation of the civilian toll in Gaza and the US’ expectations for the Israeli government. However, he still has not condemned the Israeli government offensive and has continually voiced support for its right to defend itself.
"now here's more bomb money."
You're not wrong.
Military Industrial Problem: These bombs are killing too many civilians, it's bad for PR.
Military Industrial Solution: Here, let us sell you some GPS kits to make your bombs more accurate.
Which Israel uses to accurately kill civilians.
I mean not to sound pedantic, but it seems like such a waste even bothering with guided weapons with what they're accomplishing. Bibi could literally save money and just uses regular old toss/dive bombing considering Gaza has zero air defense.
It's like how they used an aim-9x for the Chinese balloon. its so overkill.
The reason they aren't doing that is to reduce civilian casualties despite Hamas using human shields. If genocide were Israel's goal I suspect they would be using such tactics, that they aren't, that they are instead spending lots of money to increase accuracy and reduce collateral damage, is telling.
10k deaths of which 60% are women and children is not reduced collateral though lol. That's my point. Its not carpet bomb genocide, but they have no regard for civilian (or hostage) life.
You can still aim unguided bombs very accurately, especially if you're just targeting large structures and don't have to worry about surface to airs or another air force. I'm pretty sure the IDF already has and is doing so.
The only reason we know they're using guided munitions is because many of the videos of the airstrikes show an incoming AGM with a very prominent flare showing.
My dumb point is that if they're not targeting moving targets, no point in ordering guided munitions. A regular Mk bomb will hit a building just fine the same way.
Just because that number is big doesn't mean it isn't reduced; if they used the tactics you floated, indiscriminate attacks with big, dumb bombs, it would undoubtedly be higher. Doing so would be cheaper and take less effort and coordination than the lengths they currently go to.
I suspect the high casualties are due to Hamas hiding among civilians and in/under civilian structures (citation above.) The available alternatives which would reduce collateral damage are, 1) Israel lets Hamas operate with impunity because of these human shields, or 2) IDF goes in to depose Hamas without air support and suffers massive casualties. Either of these strengthen Hamas at the expense of Israel and leaves them less safe. Non starters, considering that for them this operation is reportedly about safety.
For leveling buildings I suspect you're right, I think the major issue is that Hamas targets surround themselves with civilians and I imagine in many of these circumstances better targeting could reduce collateral casualties. For example, the Hamas commanders in the tunnel network under the refugee camp that got Israel a lot of international criticism when they bombed it, (twice.) Perhaps more precision could have reduced civilian deaths there.
At very least this demonstrates that they are willing to spend resources to minimize civilian casualties, how it will play out I can't say.
This human shields line. If it was true why don't Hamas stick their hostages in every hospital?
Under them likely. I literally provided a link with evidence of them using human shields and using protected civilian targets to hide their assets. Maybe read it.
Was there an acceptable number?
0 is a number
"I'm sorry, retaliating against the slaughter of your people is unacceptable. Please patiently await the next nightmarish orgy of mass murder, kidnapping, violence, and rape that will be visited upon you."
Seems to sum up Lemmy's take on this conflict.
Retaliation à la "well do a nightmarish orgy of mass murder, kidnapping, violence, and rape to get back at the nightmarish orgy of mass murder, kidnapping, violence, and rape" is truly fucked up.
Seeking justice is one thing, but going to war doesn't end wars and terror doesn't end terror.
What makes you dispute that this conflict is, as Israel claims, about self-defense and not inflicting terror? According to the IDF, they are supposedly targeting valid military targets with less concern for collateral damage than Hamas would like, thereby devaluing their human shield tactics. Intentionally targeting civilians in mass terror attacks is something done by only one side in this conflict, and Hamas owns it and celebrates it. Israel at least ostensibly holds itself to higher standards.
Opinion discarded
Based.
Guess you know their intentions better than they do, random internet stranger. Is your dismissal based on some evidence you can share with us, or just a gut feeling?
You can’t take terrorists words at face value. The IDF has a long history of lying about their intentions, especially when it comes to their military conquests and expansionism.
I'll just pick the easy one today: Self defense ends where a non related human dies.
But even disregarding what history created the terrorist attack feels dirty.
If one truly wants a moral high ground, it should be preeetty unwavering. Now it's just silly to say one thing and do another. Well more sad because people are dying.
If that's your standard you've made retaliation impossible, there's always collateral damage in war. Interesting limitation to impose on Israel, considering the initial attack that caused said retaliation was all about slaughtering and kidnapping non-related human civilians.
A repeatedly vanquished foe who constantly starts wars and loses, resulting in more and more land and freedoms taken from them each time, yet still refuses to sue for viable peace after 70+ years of this? The various Palestinian factions have remained belligerent while launching terrorist attacks and insisting on genocide against a foe they cannot defeat, and with each failed attempt they lose more. This reality hasn't deterred them, and a refusal to accept these consequences has made groups like Hamas popular. Yeah this situation sucks but what caused this was a nation ignoring the realpolitik of their situation and poking the bear rather than trying to achieve peace, choosing pride over pragmatism. They are the ones who can end this conflict any time they want but it will mean giving up on some of their unattainable goals and laying down arms. Israel has all the cards and going all in against them, reality be damned, will yield tragic but predictable results.
Sure. Principles go all ways
Yes. The pretend of defense has been passed. It's a tragedy which seems to just be escalating
It's self-defense until Hamas has been rendered incapable of launching another such attack, stopping before then does not provide the safety that they claim this entire operation is about.
If they'd only defend towards Hamas. But now the world knows it's not the case.
Huh? That's a bit garbled. Are you suggesting they aren't attacking Hamas, the government of Gaza? Are you suggesting they intentionally let the October 7th attack happen? Neither of these make sense to me and I'd like to see some supporting evidence if that's what you're getting at. Vague phrases like, "the world knows," are empirically useless, like supporting a claim with, "people say."
I don't know where you pulled your assumptions. The whole topic is about civilian casualties. Defense would be fighting Hamas but now it's clear that the attacks are towards others as well.
Whatever the number was before it became unacceptable or when polling showed they were on the wrong side of public opinion.
Yes, they exceeded Ukraine civilian casualties now. /s
Shame on every leader who stood there doing nothing but support killing of civilians.
Any number that doesn't lead to Biden losing votes
So we're doing imaginary numbers now?
Then don’t endorse and finance their genocide motherfucker!
Right? We strongly condem Israel for Palestinian lives.
Also, here’s billions more to keep it going.
Was listening to a Canadian retired politician earlier this week. The problem is that 50 billion a year in aide to Israel is a roundabout subsidization of the American military complex. The vast majority of that money is then used to buy American made weapons. It's an elaborate system to steal money from American taxpayers and put it in the pocket of the elite few.
Good luck turning off that tap.
Either gotta sweep the elections completely, or just put a new system in place. Biggest obstacle is these dumbass Biden voters, collectively going "we can't vote for another party because it might fracture the vote".
I'd argue the "dumbass Biden voters" are the only ones keeping America from truly turning into a regressive theocratic state.
And no party is fixing the Military Industrial Complex. It owns all the politicians.
Do you not see the contradiction in claiming that the "military industrial complex" owns the pool of all the politicians, but then refusing to vote outside that pool?
Dems ran Hillary Clinton in '16 - a horrifying, war mongering two-face, basically. What was the reaction of the GOP? Elect Trump. He seemed reasonable to them compared to her. They think it's "lesser of two evils" too. I would argue that the horrible candidates across the aisle guarantee our slide towards fascism and even the theocracy the GOP is pushing.
Both parties are in on the military industrial complex. Only one party is actively working to remove rights from women and anyone not white.
Sanctions when?
Should have been sanctions decades ago for ethnic cleansing and Jewish settlements.
Illegal settlements. The UN has called Israel on this bullshit for decades.
You know damn well the Palestinians that are leaving to escape the bombing are not going to have homes to go back to but we aren't supposed to talk about that.
That's true. There are now half a million extremist settlers in the West Bank who were allowed to build homes there in violation of international law. The US did nothing even though this has made the idea of a Palestinian state effectively impossible. That was Netanyahu's plan to create "facts on the ground"
Strange how the right to self defense doesn't extend to Palestinians being ethnically cleansed out of the West Bank.
Talk about too little too fucking late!
There's still about 2 million civilians in Gaza, about 10,000 have been killed if you believe the Hamas numbers. It is nowhere near too late.
The US administration, still providing diplomatic coverage to the Fascists that rule Israel, hence the mild "finger wagging only" criticism and even that immediatelly diluted by commending them for doing the element of their military plan they already wanted to do.
Those bloody hypocrites are trying to thread the needle between de facto "unwaivering support" of the Israeli Fascist regime even as they really go no-holes-barred in their inhuman treatment of those they see as subhuman, and not losing too many votes in America or too much support from allies around the World.
Fascism is when you defend yourself against people who are trying to genocide you? Israel is a modern democracy.
The US isn't going to interfere with Israel making itself safe and bind their hands until they ensure that such an attack cannot occur again. Said, "finger wagging," is trying to minimize the political blowback from this. It's evident that many people have sympathy for the underdog, even when said underdog is explicitly genocidal, violent, dangerous, provocative, and uncompromising.
If only the IDF had kept the civilian murders to a more reasonable number, it would have made the US look less bad.
I’m pretty sure I’ve seen and read Blinken talk about “concrete plans” for the past couple of weeks already. Where are these plans? Where are the discussions around formalizing them with UN’s backing?
Most importantly, what sort of “concrete plan” does not involve a ceasefire and a hostage exchange with Israel on board? Let’s start there.
Actions talk and bullshit walks. They talk about "pressure" and "negotiations" but they're trying to ram through a $14 billion arms package.
Next we'll be hearing about how it was just some "bad apples" in the IDF that did the genocide and after these two corporals get resigned to desk jobs everything will be ok.
US Cops and IDF run from the same playbook.
These statements are a bit wild to me.
Whenever I hear this I always wonder what the "right" amount of Palestinians that should have been killed is.
War is brutal. There is an acceptable amount of civilian casualties, and according to him, Israel has exceeded that number.
Let's tell a story... Imagine for a moment, if you will, the United States in the present day.
Imagine a bill reaches the US House of Representatives called "America the nation state of white people".
In its basic principles it states "the right to exercise National self-determination in the United States is unique to white people".
Further down a clause for White Settlement "the state views the development of White Settlement as a national value and will act to encourage and promote its establishment and consolidation".
Outraged a coalition led by the Congressional Black Caucus initiates a challenge to the bill and proposes a bill of their own where it calls the United States "a country for all its citizens" but the speaker of the house unilaterally disqualifies the bill before it's allowed to even be debated.
The House General Counsel explains in a statement the bill includes several articles that are meant to "alter the character of the United States from the nation state of white people to a state in which there is equal status from the point of view of nationality for whites and people of color" the bill is dead.
"America the nation state of white people" passes through both chambers of Congress unchallenged it's then signed into law.
US President Joe Biden would invoke the law in a tweet a year later saying "America is not a state of all its citizens according to the nation state law we passed America is the nation state of white people and not anyone else"
As one Rights group put it "there is no Democratic constitution in the world that designates the Constitutional identity of the state on racial grounds as serving one ethnic group".
There is now, this disconcerting scenario is anything imaginary. It's completely real and happened just a few years ago to little coverage and little condemnation in Israel.
Then move away that carrier group. Words mean nothing.
A few was ok, though, right?
Oh, have we gotten to the phase where the US tells Israel "We have to start making some statements to mollify the domestic uproar, but just ignore it, we'll be sending you a few B in weapons next week." ?
wow
And they send weapons with which even more civilians would be killed and homes destroyed. Oh the double standards.
Its called losing the war..
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Although Blinken commended Israel for its announcement of daily military pauses in areas of Northern Gaza and two evacuation corridors, he said that “there is more that can and should be done to minimize harm to Palestinian civilians.”
The top US diplomat has subtly shifted his messaging in the days since he departed the Middle East earlier this week to more directly voice condemnation of the civilian toll in Gaza and the US’ expectations for the Israeli government.
Far too many have suffered these past weeks,” Blinken said at a press availability in New Delhi at the end of a whirlwind trip that also included stops Israel, Jordan, the West Bank, Turkey, Iraq, Japan and South Korea.
In Tokyo on Wednesday, Blinken described the US’ terms for a “durable and sustainable peace” in Gaza after the war, and on Friday he reiterated that “some progress” had been made in setting those “basic principles.”
Speaking in India Friday, Blinken said “some progress has been made” in the week since he met in Tel Aviv with Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and other Israeli officials, but “this is a process and it’s not always flipping the light switch.”
On Wednesday at a meeting of the G7 Foreign Ministers, however, there was joint supported for humanitarian pauses -– not a ceasefire -– in Gaza “to facilitate urgently needed assistance, civilian movement, and the release of hostages.”
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