Bibi will switch off the defenses again, to create more outrage and extremism and stay in power.
So stupid. If they were smart, Iran's leadership would use this opportunity to gain international support and clout by behaving like the reasonable ones while Israel is going rogue.
What I struggle with the most is how the West just shrugged shoulders when Israel hit embassies in foreign countries.
If this has happened in any other country/embassy the international outcry would have been much bigger. Those double standards which we apply to international politics are despicable. And this also creates a sense of impunity in Israel and we all see what that leads to.
How can you preach morale when you yourself are wicked?
You know who Iran funds right? Hezbollah. It's not like this was completely unprovoked. (Not defending Israel)
I think it helps to remember that these decisions are often made by people who have very specific goals that aren't aligned with the nation itself. Generals who want to get promoted to higher levels, government ministers looking to curry favor with their patrons.
You might be right, but they're likely not trying to improve Iran's standing. They're looking to each improve their own. Also, most people in these positions, in my observation ARE very dumb.
Iran wants to keep their street cred.
After America killed their general, they let us know when they’d be attacking. They didn’t want any Americans being killed but they didn’t want to look like punks. They knew we wouldn’t escalate.
Making that assumption with Israel is stupid. If they kill one person, Iran is going to get bombed. Israel doesn’t back down. With the recent riots in Iran, the government may collapse.
I mean it didn't go too well for Iran, they fired some missiles at US bases in Iraq and then promptly shot down a civilian passenger jet.
I guess when your friends include Russia that might still be worth some street cred.
I forgot about them shooting down their own plane.
With the recent riots in Iran, the government may collapse.
If an Israeli airstrike took out cc and things such as power. The people may rebel.
Attempts have been made, there will be a gradual push but energy for such a rebellion hasn't got the momentum. It'll take a little while yet for those who pushed in recent years to be replaced by those with no fear.
you assume finding a reasonable end was ever on their agenda
Naw, I'm just highlighting the difference between what smart leaders would do, compared to what Iran's leaders will probably do.
The attack is expected to come in the form of missile or drone strikes against Israeli government sites
I already said this phrase last week because I don't expect Iran to actually escalate the situation or send actual assets like the air force because they too are just as incompetent at fighting as their arab nation neighbors.
I'd love to see a skilled airforce or military take on the IDF, but afaik that doesn't exist around Israel besides the USA.
That would be a very dumb move by Iran.
Hmm, now replace Iran with the USA, and tell me how would you feel if someone has bombed your embassy and killed a bunch of its employees? Would you still tell us that the US should not retaliate?
I mean both of you are correct. I find it difficult to say that Iran would be wrong to retaliate. They have all the right in the world to do so.
Would it be a wise decision? I don't think so. A war against Israel wouldn't be beneficial for them. But if they start one, they are fully within their rights.
Iran is not the United States. We have the military might to strike anywhere in the world. We can invade any country in the world.
Iran can’t do any of those things. I get why they want to strike back but strategically it’s a bad move.
I think they should pitch their case to the UN. Israel should not have attacked their consulate. It wasn’t an embassy that was attacked.
Hell I support Israel but I can’t defend attacking the consulate. I won’t even attempt to defend that.
And that's exactly the double standards I was talking about. Letting someone act with impunity creates a very dangerous precedent.
It’s not a double standard. It’s just a fact.
If they escalate with Israel. It won’t benefit Iran. Netanyahu isn’t afraid to use further force. He’s shown that in Gaza.
Might makes right is the dumbest position, bar none.
Glad nobody claimed that.
Let him use it more. He will get the hitler treatment
You are right. Iran doesn't know that Tehran will be turned into a hot sheet of glass if it fucks around too hard.
Edit: true know-nothings downvoting this post. We're on the verge of war with Iran right now, wait and see. Hope you're right.
Hmmm, you realise that your actions have consequences, right?
If you oppress people for decades and then act surprised when they strike back, or when you strike a foreign embassy in a foreign country, you can't really expect to get a carte blanche for all your shit, you know.
And honestly Netanyahu is doing all possible to prolong this war, otherwise he is toast and hopefully imprisoned toast for all the shit he has done.
Israel has been oppressing Iran for decades? Delusional. Who do you think give Hamas all its suicide bombs and rockets?
Regarding Iran, think about, how would you feel if Iran has bombed your consulate in let's say Armenia and killed a bunch of people? But at this point I highly doubt you are capable of critical thinking and/or human empathy.
I don’t know what it would take for Israel to use nukes but I hope we don’t find out.
Yeah. Because Arab nations don't have the resources as Western ones, they typically have to resort to terrorism to fight back.
This is why the "war on terror" is such a big deal. It means that any poor nation who tries to fight a wealthy one is immediately in the wrong.
Iran isn’t an Arab nation, nor Afghanistan or a plethora of other countries we’ve fought.
Your point stands though. That’s why they revert to terrorism.
I think we should have allied with Iran to fight isis
Right now you are talking like a high school bully.
It would be a very dumb move, the problem is they think it's ordained by God.
Biden and Scholz have proven that there is literally nothing that will stop them from supporting Genocide. They really want WW3.
At some point the Iran cannot conclude anything other than diplomacy with Nazis being impossible. The only reason israel can do unlimited escalation is because Genocide Joe endorses it all.
That's a pretty huge detour to take to decide that Iran attacking Israel for an action Israel took is Joe Biden's fault. Things are allowed to happen in the world without them being the fault of the US.
Yeah how could an American F35 throwing an American bomb and American blocking of the UN resolution be Joe Bidens fault?
I cannot figure out how Joe Biden supplying israel with all the equipment to commit this extreme violation of international law and afterwards promising to protect israel against any retaliation could possibly be relevant here.
A US company selling F35s doesn't make them responsible for everything that F35 ever does. There were no American decision makers saying to bomb the Iranian embassy. There was a US decision maker when the US (prior administration) killed Qasem Soleimani, blame them for that. You have to see the clear daylight between killing someone with a gun and selling someone a rifle they later use for murder.
Promising to protect Israel is a tactic to prevent retaliation, obviously. If you asked the Vatican I'd bet they are against Iran retaliating. It doesn't retroactively cause blame for Israel's actions to shift to everyone who doesn't want Iran to retaliate.
Selling weapons to a person or group which you know will abuse them does actually make you guilty.
Can you address the party where American blocked condemnation of the strike at the UN by the way?
Blocking condemnation doesn't cause guilt for the initial act. You can agree or disagree with that activity separate from anything else we are discussing.
Bibi will switch off the defenses again, to create more outrage and extremism and stay in power.
So stupid. If they were smart, Iran's leadership would use this opportunity to gain international support and clout by behaving like the reasonable ones while Israel is going rogue.
What I struggle with the most is how the West just shrugged shoulders when Israel hit embassies in foreign countries.
If this has happened in any other country/embassy the international outcry would have been much bigger. Those double standards which we apply to international politics are despicable. And this also creates a sense of impunity in Israel and we all see what that leads to.
How can you preach morale when you yourself are wicked?
You know who Iran funds right? Hezbollah. It's not like this was completely unprovoked. (Not defending Israel)
Israel struck an Iranian embassy. Some things demand a response.
Not everyone can be China and shrug off the US bombing their embassy in Serbia.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Belgrade
Haha. Good one.
That's an interesting take.
I think it helps to remember that these decisions are often made by people who have very specific goals that aren't aligned with the nation itself. Generals who want to get promoted to higher levels, government ministers looking to curry favor with their patrons.
You might be right, but they're likely not trying to improve Iran's standing. They're looking to each improve their own. Also, most people in these positions, in my observation ARE very dumb.
Iran wants to keep their street cred.
After America killed their general, they let us know when they’d be attacking. They didn’t want any Americans being killed but they didn’t want to look like punks. They knew we wouldn’t escalate.
Making that assumption with Israel is stupid. If they kill one person, Iran is going to get bombed. Israel doesn’t back down. With the recent riots in Iran, the government may collapse.
I mean it didn't go too well for Iran, they fired some missiles at US bases in Iraq and then promptly shot down a civilian passenger jet.
I guess when your friends include Russia that might still be worth some street cred.
I forgot about them shooting down their own plane.
Yeah no.
Already headed that direction.
https://irannewsupdate.com/news/infightings/iran-regimes-officials-warn-about-the-security-crisis-and-the-prospect-of-collapse/?amp
If an Israeli airstrike took out cc and things such as power. The people may rebel.
Attempts have been made, there will be a gradual push but energy for such a rebellion hasn't got the momentum. It'll take a little while yet for those who pushed in recent years to be replaced by those with no fear.
you assume finding a reasonable end was ever on their agenda
Naw, I'm just highlighting the difference between what smart leaders would do, compared to what Iran's leaders will probably do.
Is Israel now in the find out phase?
Not really, sadly.
No but Hamas is :)
I already said this phrase last week because I don't expect Iran to actually escalate the situation or send actual assets like the air force because they too are just as incompetent at fighting as their arab nation neighbors.
I'd love to see a skilled airforce or military take on the IDF, but afaik that doesn't exist around Israel besides the USA.
That would be a very dumb move by Iran.
Hmm, now replace Iran with the USA, and tell me how would you feel if someone has bombed your embassy and killed a bunch of its employees? Would you still tell us that the US should not retaliate?
I don't know that is the best analogy.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
I mean both of you are correct. I find it difficult to say that Iran would be wrong to retaliate. They have all the right in the world to do so.
Would it be a wise decision? I don't think so. A war against Israel wouldn't be beneficial for them. But if they start one, they are fully within their rights.
Iran is not the United States. We have the military might to strike anywhere in the world. We can invade any country in the world. Iran can’t do any of those things. I get why they want to strike back but strategically it’s a bad move. I think they should pitch their case to the UN. Israel should not have attacked their consulate. It wasn’t an embassy that was attacked. Hell I support Israel but I can’t defend attacking the consulate. I won’t even attempt to defend that.
And that's exactly the double standards I was talking about. Letting someone act with impunity creates a very dangerous precedent.
It’s not a double standard. It’s just a fact.
If they escalate with Israel. It won’t benefit Iran. Netanyahu isn’t afraid to use further force. He’s shown that in Gaza.
Might makes right is the dumbest position, bar none.
Glad nobody claimed that.
Let him use it more. He will get the hitler treatment
You are right. Iran doesn't know that Tehran will be turned into a hot sheet of glass if it fucks around too hard.
Edit: true know-nothings downvoting this post. We're on the verge of war with Iran right now, wait and see. Hope you're right.
Hmmm, you realise that your actions have consequences, right?
If you oppress people for decades and then act surprised when they strike back, or when you strike a foreign embassy in a foreign country, you can't really expect to get a carte blanche for all your shit, you know.
And honestly Netanyahu is doing all possible to prolong this war, otherwise he is toast and hopefully imprisoned toast for all the shit he has done.
Israel has been oppressing Iran for decades? Delusional. Who do you think give Hamas all its suicide bombs and rockets?
Are you trying to tell me that Palestinians were living the life in Israel before the 7th of October. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_violations_against_Palestinians_by_Israel#:~:text=Reports%20of%20human%20rights%20violations%20against%20Palestinians%20by%20Israel%20include,illegal%20interference%20with%20privacy%2C%20family%2C.
Regarding Iran, think about, how would you feel if Iran has bombed your consulate in let's say Armenia and killed a bunch of people? But at this point I highly doubt you are capable of critical thinking and/or human empathy.
I don’t know what it would take for Israel to use nukes but I hope we don’t find out.
Yeah. Because Arab nations don't have the resources as Western ones, they typically have to resort to terrorism to fight back.
This is why the "war on terror" is such a big deal. It means that any poor nation who tries to fight a wealthy one is immediately in the wrong.
Iran isn’t an Arab nation, nor Afghanistan or a plethora of other countries we’ve fought. Your point stands though. That’s why they revert to terrorism.
I think we should have allied with Iran to fight isis
Right now you are talking like a high school bully.
It would be a very dumb move, the problem is they think it's ordained by God.
Biden and Scholz have proven that there is literally nothing that will stop them from supporting Genocide. They really want WW3.
Israel committed a blatant act of war on Iran and they keep delivering israel weapons and. Biden even blocked UN condemnation of it.
At some point the Iran cannot conclude anything other than diplomacy with Nazis being impossible. The only reason israel can do unlimited escalation is because Genocide Joe endorses it all.
That's a pretty huge detour to take to decide that Iran attacking Israel for an action Israel took is Joe Biden's fault. Things are allowed to happen in the world without them being the fault of the US.
Yeah how could an American F35 throwing an American bomb and American blocking of the UN resolution be Joe Bidens fault?
I cannot figure out how Joe Biden supplying israel with all the equipment to commit this extreme violation of international law and afterwards promising to protect israel against any retaliation could possibly be relevant here.
A US company selling F35s doesn't make them responsible for everything that F35 ever does. There were no American decision makers saying to bomb the Iranian embassy. There was a US decision maker when the US (prior administration) killed Qasem Soleimani, blame them for that. You have to see the clear daylight between killing someone with a gun and selling someone a rifle they later use for murder.
Promising to protect Israel is a tactic to prevent retaliation, obviously. If you asked the Vatican I'd bet they are against Iran retaliating. It doesn't retroactively cause blame for Israel's actions to shift to everyone who doesn't want Iran to retaliate.
Selling weapons to a person or group which you know will abuse them does actually make you guilty.
Can you address the party where American blocked condemnation of the strike at the UN by the way?
Blocking condemnation doesn't cause guilt for the initial act. You can agree or disagree with that activity separate from anything else we are discussing.