If a state can choose disqualify, Texas, Florida and PA can choose to disqualify the democratic candidates on trumped up unqualified charges
Need to be super careful with this one, it cuts both ways.
It’s not a new law, it’s in the constitution. He cannot hold office, and there’s no need for a conviction. He participated.
You are absolutely correct. However, we cannot trust republicans to not abuse precedent where one exists.
They didn't say that it's not in the Constitution they said the states can't enforce it.
If we want to enforce it as a country it should come from Congress. If you give the states leeway to take people off the ballot, States can do stupid things I agree he deserves to be off the ballot but I do not love giving swing states that tool.
Let Roberts enforce his decision then
it should come from Congress
It seems people might not believe that Congress would abide by the constitution, seeing as last time around a whole bunch of them straight-up voted to not abide by the election results.
States can enforce the constitutional age limit, it's incoherent garbage nonsense to pretend states can not enforce the constitutional treason restriction
Only if you equate an openly obvious case of Insurrection and attempting to overthrow an election to the GOP going 'lol ban Dems' with no actual charges.
I don't equate it but do you think for a second that Florida wouldn't?
I think they'll do that regardless of what we do so we might as well do what the law says.
You don't though, because the case will still rise to the Supreme Court and be shot down for being bullshit. If they get on board with disqualifying candidates for trumped up charges, then we have a constitutional crisis, but just because one state court's opinion is validated doesn't mean other courts just get the ability to disqualify at will.
If disqualifying candidates based on false pretences is a "constitutional crisis", why isn't THIS inverse — restoring an insurrectionist to the ballot — a "constitutional crisis"?
At this point "constitutional crisis" just sounds like another fantasy guard rail "check" or "balance" that people view as a turning point or line in the sand, but in reality everyone will just accept the fascist takeover and act like things aren't bad enough to do anything about it yet...
I swear, if they shit all over our freedoms 13 or 14 more times, they're gonna regret the numerous times they shat all over us and we did nothing!
Because someone somewhere would have to make insurrection charges stick. They've completely failed at that. This whole thing is political theatre like you read about 70s USSR. Idk is gonna win but it's a knives out battle like Kruschkev n Gorbachev won.
Al lot of charges have "stuck" hence why Trumple has offered to pardon everyone when he wins.
You don't need to go to another country for an example when you can just look at the US. McCarthyism is the political theatre you are talking about. The Red Scare and ruining countless peoples lives over made up bullshit.
This ain't made up. The sexual assaulter did not concede willingly and fomented an insurrection however dumb or ineffective it was.
the states all already have disparate requirements regarding how to get on the ballot: filing deadlines, petition signatures, write in eligibility… How is “verifying against constitutional requirements” any different?
By the logic of that decision, states must allow young candidates to run on the ballot, even if they would not be 35 by the inauguration date, because that is a constitutional requirement that can only be enforced at the federal level.
And foreign-born candidates. In fact, if "shall" means "must be enforced by congress," you don't even have to be a US citizen at all.
Obviously such a candidate could be disqualified by congress, but states apparently have no right to disqualify such a candidate themselves.
And I'm okay with that. Let the feds stop it so that it gets oversight.
If they have legal reason to- they’re welcome to try it. Don’t make this out that they can remove innocent people from the ballots.
if Trump gets back in they're going to Navalny their opponents.
Don’t make this out that they can remove innocent people from the ballots.
You make a good point, but what prevents this?
It was supposed to be SCOTUS
You’ve just discovered the fundamental problem with democracy: it operates on good faith in a Machiavellian world.
Machiavelli was satire. It was meant to show the stupidest way to do things.
Most people aren't like that. We just haven't found a good way to rid ourselves of psychopaths and narcissists.
You know, I was under the impression that refusing to do the right thing because you're scared of the consequences was the definition of cowardice.
The fact that SCOTUS decided that letting a literal insurrectionist stay in the ballot, rather than make the legally and morally correct decision, only because it would mean they'd have to smack down Texas, Florida, et al, later, makes them cowards.
The states have always had that choice, with due process, to disqualify candidates. Colorado disqualified a candidate in 2012, and Gorsuch was one of the judges that ruled in favor of Colorado.
Hassan v Colorado, 2012
as the magistrate judge’s opinion makes clear and we expressly reaffirm here, a state’s legitimate interest in protecting the integrity and practical functioning of the political process permits it to exclude from the ballot candidates who are constitutionally prohibited from assuming office. See generallyMunro v. Socialist Workers Party, 479 U.S. 189, 193-95 (1986); Bullock v. Carter, 405 U.S. 134, 145 (1972).
The judgment of the district court is affirmed. Appellant’s motion for publication is denied.
Entered for the Court
Neil M. Gorsuch Circuit Judge
You don't need to be any more careful than when enforcing the rules on place of birth, age, or term limits.
I agree, but if they expicitly stated it was on the grounds of insurrection I think it would have set a good precedent.
They voted that the states aren't allowed to execute it. It needs to come from Congress. He should be off the ballot everywhere.
Which is why this was dumb. My statement was saying it could have been a good thing. But we live in the timeline where Wonka doesn't make fucken Wonka bars and everything is shit so the traitor stays on the ballot.
You seem to gloss over that CO was fully justified. Further SCOTUS did not invalidate the finding that Trump participated in an insurrection.
they could have easily put road blocks on it such as "must be under federal prosecution for or convicted of specific crimes or actively battling federal troops under lawful orders."
Another twinge in the gears is that even if Biden pardoned Trump, Trump should still be unable to run for president under the constitution.
Like I said it needs to be very carefully implemented.
Yeah, dangerous thing to pass though.
If a state can choose disqualify, Texas, Florida and PA can choose to disqualify the democratic candidates on trumped up unqualified charges
Need to be super careful with this one, it cuts both ways.
It’s not a new law, it’s in the constitution. He cannot hold office, and there’s no need for a conviction. He participated.
You are absolutely correct. However, we cannot trust republicans to not abuse precedent where one exists.
They didn't say that it's not in the Constitution they said the states can't enforce it.
If we want to enforce it as a country it should come from Congress. If you give the states leeway to take people off the ballot, States can do stupid things I agree he deserves to be off the ballot but I do not love giving swing states that tool.
Let Roberts enforce his decision then
It seems people might not believe that Congress would abide by the constitution, seeing as last time around a whole bunch of them straight-up voted to not abide by the election results.
States can enforce the constitutional age limit, it's incoherent garbage nonsense to pretend states can not enforce the constitutional treason restriction
Only if you equate an openly obvious case of Insurrection and attempting to overthrow an election to the GOP going 'lol ban Dems' with no actual charges.
I don't equate it but do you think for a second that Florida wouldn't?
I think they'll do that regardless of what we do so we might as well do what the law says.
You don't though, because the case will still rise to the Supreme Court and be shot down for being bullshit. If they get on board with disqualifying candidates for trumped up charges, then we have a constitutional crisis, but just because one state court's opinion is validated doesn't mean other courts just get the ability to disqualify at will.
If disqualifying candidates based on false pretences is a "constitutional crisis", why isn't THIS inverse — restoring an insurrectionist to the ballot — a "constitutional crisis"?
At this point "constitutional crisis" just sounds like another fantasy guard rail "check" or "balance" that people view as a turning point or line in the sand, but in reality everyone will just accept the fascist takeover and act like things aren't bad enough to do anything about it yet...
Because someone somewhere would have to make insurrection charges stick. They've completely failed at that. This whole thing is political theatre like you read about 70s USSR. Idk is gonna win but it's a knives out battle like Kruschkev n Gorbachev won.
Al lot of charges have "stuck" hence why Trumple has offered to pardon everyone when he wins.
You don't need to go to another country for an example when you can just look at the US. McCarthyism is the political theatre you are talking about. The Red Scare and ruining countless peoples lives over made up bullshit.
This ain't made up. The sexual assaulter did not concede willingly and fomented an insurrection however dumb or ineffective it was.
the states all already have disparate requirements regarding how to get on the ballot: filing deadlines, petition signatures, write in eligibility… How is “verifying against constitutional requirements” any different?
By the logic of that decision, states must allow young candidates to run on the ballot, even if they would not be 35 by the inauguration date, because that is a constitutional requirement that can only be enforced at the federal level.
And foreign-born candidates. In fact, if "shall" means "must be enforced by congress," you don't even have to be a US citizen at all.
Obviously such a candidate could be disqualified by congress, but states apparently have no right to disqualify such a candidate themselves.
And I'm okay with that. Let the feds stop it so that it gets oversight.
If they have legal reason to- they’re welcome to try it. Don’t make this out that they can remove innocent people from the ballots.
if Trump gets back in they're going to Navalny their opponents.
You make a good point, but what prevents this?
It was supposed to be SCOTUS
You’ve just discovered the fundamental problem with democracy: it operates on good faith in a Machiavellian world.
Machiavelli was satire. It was meant to show the stupidest way to do things.
Most people aren't like that. We just haven't found a good way to rid ourselves of psychopaths and narcissists.
You know, I was under the impression that refusing to do the right thing because you're scared of the consequences was the definition of cowardice.
The fact that SCOTUS decided that letting a literal insurrectionist stay in the ballot, rather than make the legally and morally correct decision, only because it would mean they'd have to smack down Texas, Florida, et al, later, makes them cowards.
The states have always had that choice, with due process, to disqualify candidates. Colorado disqualified a candidate in 2012, and Gorsuch was one of the judges that ruled in favor of Colorado.
Hassan v Colorado, 2012
You don't need to be any more careful than when enforcing the rules on place of birth, age, or term limits.
I agree, but if they expicitly stated it was on the grounds of insurrection I think it would have set a good precedent.
They voted that the states aren't allowed to execute it. It needs to come from Congress. He should be off the ballot everywhere.
Which is why this was dumb. My statement was saying it could have been a good thing. But we live in the timeline where Wonka doesn't make fucken Wonka bars and everything is shit so the traitor stays on the ballot.
You seem to gloss over that CO was fully justified. Further SCOTUS did not invalidate the finding that Trump participated in an insurrection.
they could have easily put road blocks on it such as "must be under federal prosecution for or convicted of specific crimes or actively battling federal troops under lawful orders."
Another twinge in the gears is that even if Biden pardoned Trump, Trump should still be unable to run for president under the constitution.
Like I said it needs to be very carefully implemented.