Right.. I mean, to be quite honest... if Biden/Trump in 2024 is the best they can come up with, maybe something like that will waken up the Democrats to actual consequences when they continue to run such shitty candidates.
Look up how Hussein took power. Or Hitler. Or Putin. Or pooh bear.
There will be no Democrats. Or democracy.
Only bodies.
Seems like Biden should be begging for votes then yeah?
I never comment in politics threads. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth and invites the kind of discourse I try to avoid recreationally.
But I had to reply to you because a) it's weird how much I'm seeing the word "begging" lately, and b) what kind of "begging" should he even do? "Please, please, please vote for me?" And how would that change things at all? Or even help?
I mean the previous commenter is making it sound like Democrats are going to be executed if Trump is elected. Did I interpret that correctly? Does Biden know that? Is he worried? Because he doesn't seem worried at all to me.
EDIT: Anyone got an answer?
I didn't ask about or address what someone else said. I asked you a couple questions.
You responded to a question I asked without answering my question bud. Might wanna get off that high horse before you hurt yourself.
Here's my original question you responded to for reference:
Seems like Biden should be begging for votes then yeah?
If you want to answer that I'll consider answering your questions.
Man, pivot really is your only move.
I asked you what begging is supposed to look like here or accomplish; you tried to get me to defend what someone else said. I point out I'm not them and I asked you a question; so you pivot again to "my statement with a "yeah?" at the end is now a question so address that first.
I'm cutting my losses. You'll just move the posts to try and force me to address whatever it is you think I should be addressing instead, because you don't actually have an answer and you're not interested in a real discussion.
My mistake. This is why I don't engage in politics threads online. You never know when someone is being serious and has an actual answer and is capable of a dialogue versus when some jackass just wants to waste your time.
If they're arguing in bad faith, odds are high they're just a right-wing operative intending to sow defeatism and wedge-drive. Often they'll pretend being a concerned centrist but nowadays they feign being a leftist or tankie, which kills two birds with one stone.
With this in mind don't stop commenting, just make your strongest arguments upfront and target the bystander audience. It's the only way to act as damage-control. But don't waste your time with them, specifically.
I flipped up through the chain and only now am I seeing all the edits they made. I knew something was screwy when they replied to my reply to myself- dude was camping this thread. Definitely not a good faith.
I do not have the energy to argue with such a waste of time. I don't understand people who find enjoyment in "arguing" like that person does.
And when responding, make sure to point out there's no controversy, there was never a "gotcha", those arguments were never missed or ignored, the truth was never in question.
Because the goal is to make people doubt, making people think there's more support for the false narratives than there really is, so you have to IMMEDIATELY reinforce that they're liars in your opening statement (or they got their talking points from liars).
One of the best ways to do it is to demonstrate their questions are so basic you didn't need to put effort in to answering them, and doing it by answering with links is very effective at that. "but they won't read the links" - yes but that's not the point, the point is to nerf their ability to steal attention and accurate links does in fact do that because it reduces the likelihood of other trolls joining and it's easier to end the thread there.
Buddy, I asked the first question. What gives your questions priority?
If you were genuinely trying to get answers to "why isn't the president begging for votes" you would've answered me when I asked what the hell that means. You proved it's not your genuine priority by trying to get me to defend a point someone else was making instead.
Get outta here with that Crowder bullshit. If you're asking questions and you want answers you'll be happy to explain your position, not point at someone else and try and change the topic at the first opportunity. And assuming, generously, that that was a mistake, you wouldn't have doubled down on "well answer my rhetorical that I refuse to define for you first or you're just proving you can't debate me!"
All of the time I spent typing this was on the very, very, very slim chance you mean well but are an ineffective communicator. Since that's statistically unlikely, feel free to reply however you like. I have no interest in continuing with you further.
If you were genuinely trying to get answers to “why isn’t the president begging for votes” you would’ve answered me when I asked what the hell that means
I mean I'd like to think he's worried, and will actually start talking about nationalizing marijuana legalization with actual plan to implement it, or to make internet a utility... but he seems to think backing israel and getting some 20 year old debts canceled, and then reversed by the supreme court, is going to get him enough votes
Exactly. Either he's not worried or he's to egotistical to believe he needs voters help. 🤷♂️
Wedge driving? Ask yourself, why are Democrats so scared? If you pick the best person on your team to go up the worst player of the opposition, you wouldn't be scared.
I mean, I'm scared because people I love are being made illegal and/or having their rights revoked. I'm scared because 8 years ago, I didn't know half of my country were only pretending not to be some combination of antisemitic, white nationalist, eagerly awaiting a chance to shoot their neighbors and anti-vaccine. Like, I knew that was the general flavor where I lived, but I didn't know it was this bad everywhere.
Ah who cares about actual reality when we can have a "Biden = bad" stroke off contest?
Nevermind the fact that prior to 2016 most people's lives in the US weren't a daily slog through a political hell scape, here's Internet Johnny to remind you that the US has always been this fascist and at each other's throats so it's fine actually if Trump wins. Nevermind your lying eyes, ears, and memory.
for sure. just like the lesson the Catholic Centre Party learned in 1932. so worth it.
The reason we got Trump in the first place is cause of the DNC and corporate Democrats that wanted him to win over Bernie. They just had Rachel Maddow and all the feelings-over-reality shills on the left working overtime to convince their party that it was somehow Bernie supporters fault.
You’re lucky you’re saying this stupid shit here and not in other communities where that type of bullshit propaganda isn’t tolerated.
But you know that already, don’t you? That’s why there’s so many of you here.
Propaganda? It's the truth and the DNC admitted it in court.
Seriously, does anyone believe this? Trump is the DNC fault? Ridiculous. It’s certainly not the RNCs fault or republican voters for choosing him. And it’s certainly not the voters fault for voting for him, or people protest voting because they don’t want a woman or whatever. No, it’s not even the electoral colleges fault! It’s the DNC for not pushing Bernie. I can’t believe I voted for the leopards eating faces party and now my face is eaten! Damn you Hillary!
They wanted him to win because he COULD win. Bernie couldn’t. I say this as someone that aggressively supported Bernie.
The problem is that you don’t understand what’s at stake, so you can rest on your single-issue outrage and think you’re in a place to demand better.
You’re not in that place. The rest of us know that, but you refuse to listen. So you and others like you will do what you did in 2016- fold your arms and throw a temper tantrum.
This is how Trump will win.
Bernie couldn't win. Tell that to Hillary... cause she sure did lose and is why Trump got into office in the first place. Don't forget the DNC admitted that they had a "right" to sabotage Bernie, because they had no obligation to be impartial.
Okay man, I’m not going to argue with you. But not voting is a dumb way to express disapproval.
End of story.
Okay... So voting third party is okay in your eyes. Good to know.
Look kid, do what you want. You’re clearly incapable of seeing history repeating itself here because you haven’t lived through it long enough-
So make your mistakes and hope there’s a democracy remaining that will forgive you for it later on down the road.
I’m done arguing with you.
I don't know what you think... that I won't vote for Biden given that is my only choice, or that people can't talk bad about Biden and the state of the DNC else Trump might win. If you believe the latter, then you should rethink who you're upset with.
Not really. The reason we got him is the people who voted for him. I was a bernie supported but I voted hilary. there is plenty of time to fix the democrats or completely eliminate the republicans and we will get a new second party anyway as dems are always pretty ready to fracture. Republicans winning is the only thing keeping dems at statis quo.
Trump lost the popular vote every single time, he won the first time because of the electoral college and gerrymandering
We vote now to maintain and carry this frustration and momentum to make change. What we don't do is shoot ourselves in both feet and wonder why we can't walk.
So you're under a lot of frustration by voting Biden? Or you are saying you're so scared to say anything negative about him because he isn't a very good candidate and you're scared he'll lose to Trump?
Stop commenting on posts and attempting to twist narratives by offering the illusion of choice. You're creating traps by seeming to offer two separate choices that lead towards the same outcome. So here's the reality:
Trump sucks. The Republican party acts purely in its own interest. People who support either the candidate or the party do so because they believe harming others is an action they can support if it means some end they do mental backflips to justify. The majority of those supporting do not act in good faith in discussions and instead attempt to derail conversations with barely relevant "facts" and by making others feel as if they need to defend something, while also being unreasonable.
I support anyone who isn't claiming they will be a dictator. I support anyone who is attempting to enact positive and lasting change, which you will attack. I support those who do not attempt coups.
Who do you support?
It isn't a matter of who I support, it is about what I support... and neither candidate offers it. So, yes I'm stuck voting for Biden which isn't really a choice. But I've already been in this position before, and it is a bad choice by Democrats to have another election where people aren't really excited about the candidate and to simply argue that if you don't vote for Biden, that you'll get Trump.
No, if 2016 didn't wake them up I don't think anything will, I'm pretty thoroughly convinced they would still be whining about Nader voters as they were being taken to the gallows by Republicans,
Everyone who can be woke already is and its just about calling out their dumb moderate ideas while they can still be stopped and primarying their people with real progressives. Democratic candidates losing to Republicans doesn't make that any easier, if anything it just empowers moderates because the "leftist purity tests did this" narrative plays really well with low information voters.
We should all anticipate that.
Not pushing for the government to have warrantless access to peoples' communications would be a good way to do that (archived)
e; added link
Right.. I mean, to be quite honest... if Biden/Trump in 2024 is the best they can come up with, maybe something like that will waken up the Democrats to actual consequences when they continue to run such shitty candidates.
Look up how Hussein took power. Or Hitler. Or Putin. Or pooh bear.
There will be no Democrats. Or democracy.
Only bodies.
Seems like Biden should be begging for votes then yeah?
I never comment in politics threads. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth and invites the kind of discourse I try to avoid recreationally.
But I had to reply to you because a) it's weird how much I'm seeing the word "begging" lately, and b) what kind of "begging" should he even do? "Please, please, please vote for me?" And how would that change things at all? Or even help?
I mean the previous commenter is making it sound like Democrats are going to be executed if Trump is elected. Did I interpret that correctly? Does Biden know that? Is he worried? Because he doesn't seem worried at all to me.
EDIT: Anyone got an answer?
I didn't ask about or address what someone else said. I asked you a couple questions.
You responded to a question I asked without answering my question bud. Might wanna get off that high horse before you hurt yourself.
Here's my original question you responded to for reference:
If you want to answer that I'll consider answering your questions.
Man, pivot really is your only move.
I asked you what begging is supposed to look like here or accomplish; you tried to get me to defend what someone else said. I point out I'm not them and I asked you a question; so you pivot again to "my statement with a "yeah?" at the end is now a question so address that first.
I'm cutting my losses. You'll just move the posts to try and force me to address whatever it is you think I should be addressing instead, because you don't actually have an answer and you're not interested in a real discussion.
My mistake. This is why I don't engage in politics threads online. You never know when someone is being serious and has an actual answer and is capable of a dialogue versus when some jackass just wants to waste your time.
If they're arguing in bad faith, odds are high they're just a right-wing operative intending to sow defeatism and wedge-drive. Often they'll pretend being a concerned centrist but nowadays they feign being a leftist or tankie, which kills two birds with one stone.
With this in mind don't stop commenting, just make your strongest arguments upfront and target the bystander audience. It's the only way to act as damage-control. But don't waste your time with them, specifically.
I flipped up through the chain and only now am I seeing all the edits they made. I knew something was screwy when they replied to my reply to myself- dude was camping this thread. Definitely not a good faith.
I do not have the energy to argue with such a waste of time. I don't understand people who find enjoyment in "arguing" like that person does.
And when responding, make sure to point out there's no controversy, there was never a "gotcha", those arguments were never missed or ignored, the truth was never in question.
Because the goal is to make people doubt, making people think there's more support for the false narratives than there really is, so you have to IMMEDIATELY reinforce that they're liars in your opening statement (or they got their talking points from liars).
One of the best ways to do it is to demonstrate their questions are so basic you didn't need to put effort in to answering them, and doing it by answering with links is very effective at that. "but they won't read the links" - yes but that's not the point, the point is to nerf their ability to steal attention and accurate links does in fact do that because it reduces the likelihood of other trolls joining and it's easier to end the thread there.
"I don't answer questions but people are obligated to answer mine" isn't the enlightened take you think it is bud.
This you?
Buddy, I asked the first question. What gives your questions priority?
If you were genuinely trying to get answers to "why isn't the president begging for votes" you would've answered me when I asked what the hell that means. You proved it's not your genuine priority by trying to get me to defend a point someone else was making instead.
Get outta here with that Crowder bullshit. If you're asking questions and you want answers you'll be happy to explain your position, not point at someone else and try and change the topic at the first opportunity. And assuming, generously, that that was a mistake, you wouldn't have doubled down on "well answer my rhetorical that I refuse to define for you first or you're just proving you can't debate me!"
All of the time I spent typing this was on the very, very, very slim chance you mean well but are an ineffective communicator. Since that's statistically unlikely, feel free to reply however you like. I have no interest in continuing with you further.
Throw out a guess and answer based on that.
I’m SO glad to see people like you get downvoted here. It’s gives me hope that not all is lost and that lemmy may actually be worth something.
I mean I'd like to think he's worried, and will actually start talking about nationalizing marijuana legalization with actual plan to implement it, or to make internet a utility... but he seems to think backing israel and getting some 20 year old debts canceled, and then reversed by the supreme court, is going to get him enough votes
Exactly. Either he's not worried or he's to egotistical to believe he needs voters help. 🤷♂️
Seems like you should be begging everyone and anyone to vote for Biden then?
If Biden isn't worried about it why would I be?
Lol
Still waiting for an answer 😄
The irony of you expecting an answer when you just trolled the shit out of someone while refusing to answer them.
From whom? Bothesidesers such as yourself who are going to vote red no matter what happens?
I mean if Biden didn't win the 2020 general election with the help of people like me then he's got 2024 in the bag right?
Holy fuck this obvious wedge driving hahahaha.
Wedge driving? Ask yourself, why are Democrats so scared? If you pick the best person on your team to go up the worst player of the opposition, you wouldn't be scared.
I mean, I'm scared because people I love are being made illegal and/or having their rights revoked. I'm scared because 8 years ago, I didn't know half of my country were only pretending not to be some combination of antisemitic, white nationalist, eagerly awaiting a chance to shoot their neighbors and anti-vaccine. Like, I knew that was the general flavor where I lived, but I didn't know it was this bad everywhere.
Ah who cares about actual reality when we can have a "Biden = bad" stroke off contest?
Nevermind the fact that prior to 2016 most people's lives in the US weren't a daily slog through a political hell scape, here's Internet Johnny to remind you that the US has always been this fascist and at each other's throats so it's fine actually if Trump wins. Nevermind your lying eyes, ears, and memory.
for sure. just like the lesson the Catholic Centre Party learned in 1932. so worth it.
The reason we got Trump in the first place is cause of the DNC and corporate Democrats that wanted him to win over Bernie. They just had Rachel Maddow and all the feelings-over-reality shills on the left working overtime to convince their party that it was somehow Bernie supporters fault.
You’re lucky you’re saying this stupid shit here and not in other communities where that type of bullshit propaganda isn’t tolerated.
But you know that already, don’t you? That’s why there’s so many of you here.
Propaganda? It's the truth and the DNC admitted it in court.
Seriously, does anyone believe this? Trump is the DNC fault? Ridiculous. It’s certainly not the RNCs fault or republican voters for choosing him. And it’s certainly not the voters fault for voting for him, or people protest voting because they don’t want a woman or whatever. No, it’s not even the electoral colleges fault! It’s the DNC for not pushing Bernie. I can’t believe I voted for the leopards eating faces party and now my face is eaten! Damn you Hillary!
They wanted him to win because he COULD win. Bernie couldn’t. I say this as someone that aggressively supported Bernie.
The problem is that you don’t understand what’s at stake, so you can rest on your single-issue outrage and think you’re in a place to demand better.
You’re not in that place. The rest of us know that, but you refuse to listen. So you and others like you will do what you did in 2016- fold your arms and throw a temper tantrum.
This is how Trump will win.
Bernie couldn't win. Tell that to Hillary... cause she sure did lose and is why Trump got into office in the first place. Don't forget the DNC admitted that they had a "right" to sabotage Bernie, because they had no obligation to be impartial.
Okay man, I’m not going to argue with you. But not voting is a dumb way to express disapproval.
End of story.
Okay... So voting third party is okay in your eyes. Good to know.
Look kid, do what you want. You’re clearly incapable of seeing history repeating itself here because you haven’t lived through it long enough-
So make your mistakes and hope there’s a democracy remaining that will forgive you for it later on down the road.
I’m done arguing with you.
I don't know what you think... that I won't vote for Biden given that is my only choice, or that people can't talk bad about Biden and the state of the DNC else Trump might win. If you believe the latter, then you should rethink who you're upset with.
Not really. The reason we got him is the people who voted for him. I was a bernie supported but I voted hilary. there is plenty of time to fix the democrats or completely eliminate the republicans and we will get a new second party anyway as dems are always pretty ready to fracture. Republicans winning is the only thing keeping dems at statis quo.
Trump lost the popular vote every single time, he won the first time because of the electoral college and gerrymandering
We vote now to maintain and carry this frustration and momentum to make change. What we don't do is shoot ourselves in both feet and wonder why we can't walk.
So you're under a lot of frustration by voting Biden? Or you are saying you're so scared to say anything negative about him because he isn't a very good candidate and you're scared he'll lose to Trump?
Stop commenting on posts and attempting to twist narratives by offering the illusion of choice. You're creating traps by seeming to offer two separate choices that lead towards the same outcome. So here's the reality:
Trump sucks. The Republican party acts purely in its own interest. People who support either the candidate or the party do so because they believe harming others is an action they can support if it means some end they do mental backflips to justify. The majority of those supporting do not act in good faith in discussions and instead attempt to derail conversations with barely relevant "facts" and by making others feel as if they need to defend something, while also being unreasonable.
I support anyone who isn't claiming they will be a dictator. I support anyone who is attempting to enact positive and lasting change, which you will attack. I support those who do not attempt coups.
Who do you support?
It isn't a matter of who I support, it is about what I support... and neither candidate offers it. So, yes I'm stuck voting for Biden which isn't really a choice. But I've already been in this position before, and it is a bad choice by Democrats to have another election where people aren't really excited about the candidate and to simply argue that if you don't vote for Biden, that you'll get Trump.
No, if 2016 didn't wake them up I don't think anything will, I'm pretty thoroughly convinced they would still be whining about Nader voters as they were being taken to the gallows by Republicans,
Everyone who can be woke already is and its just about calling out their dumb moderate ideas while they can still be stopped and primarying their people with real progressives. Democratic candidates losing to Republicans doesn't make that any easier, if anything it just empowers moderates because the "leftist purity tests did this" narrative plays really well with low information voters.
It doesn't help to wake up too late.