Abstaining from animal murder and torture is admirable and something I should do OTOH some internet commenters are mean about it
I wonder why they would be mean...
Good job! This is the comment that made them turn vegan! Mission accomplished!
That's not the goal. They attack people because that makes them feel better. Animals? Who cares. Definitely not them.
I'm a cow and this made me feel better about my fate
yes. it is the vegans who really hate animals!
What I said is that you don't help animals with your hysteria. So I can conclude vegans struggle with logic. At least in your case.
brutal take down. nice
it definitely seems so sometimes
and never the people who fund an industrial killing machine for food we don't actually need and will kill us both individually and collectively.
I was going to stop torturing animals, but some mean vegan said some words that hurt my feelings.
So now I'm going to eat two burgers!
chortle!
I think I will actually do this now just to prove you wrong
legendary!
If your belief lives or dies because of some internet comment it won't last anyway.
Edit: as in, what sustains it is the actual moral implications of a non-vegan lifestyle. I was convinced to go vegan by internet comments like this.
See here’s what’s really really funny, people over and over again say “man if the vegan people who were trying to convince me could just not be gigantic assholes about it then maybe it would be easier to join their community”
And then you come along and are a gigantic asshole about it and prove the entire point.
Super solid representation, 5/7, perfection.
Having a reasonable discussion with these people is like trying to play a game of chess with a pigeon. They'll topple all the pieces, shit on the board and claim victory.
Gonna copy large chunks of my last comment because no ones there to stop me.
This isn't a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. Not supporting slavery and murder should be the norm, not something that needs to be argued for at length. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can't accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won't accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their newborn. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren't interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. It's a horrific injustice and we will talk about it as such. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.
this is pretty much just appeal to emotion.
Here is another one: That meat on your plate comes from an animal that could feel. It had a whole life full of feelings and dreams. It might've liked some food but disliked other, it probably had friends, it had a mom and a dad, it was loved. Then they killed it, shipped it, you cooked it and ate it.
very good. have you considered creative writing as a career?
thing is, it's a philosophy of empathy and compassion. you don't really join a.commmunity.
there are no V cards I'm afraid.
This discussion is literally about the vegan community here on Lemmy
I thought it was more about abuse.
If you need people to be nice to you to convince you, you care more about appearances than the argument. If people being rude stops you from acting on something you actually believe in you won't last a month as a vegan.
Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs "special" catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won't last.
The first lesson every vegan needs to learn is: there are no rewards and no one will compliment you. You are doing this out of your own conviction and not for anyone else.
This is precisely the circlejerking mentioned in the meme. Whether true or not, the community presents itself as unwelcoming and self-aggrandizing. These are not traits that easily convince people to listen to the cause.
There's nothing to listen to, either you believe animal ag is horrendous and unethical and act on it or you don't. That's it. No pretty pleases are going to convince someone they have to give up their beloved steak and cheese for nothing in return.
Then why are you trying so hard to explain yourself?
Right, we get it, but if you tried attracting people to veganism with amazing recipes, and annecdotes of how much healthier you feel, people might come have a conversation and try making some vegan food. Instead these communities drive anyone non-vegan right out the door.
What's the expression? Honey will catch more flies?
Reformism doesn't work. People that are vegan because it's "actually really good food" or looking for applause for "saving the planet" stop being vegan once it becomes too inconvenient. Because their mindset is that they are doing something good and you can stop doing good things or balance them out with other good deeds and there is an inherent expectation of a reward for being good.
Not supporting slavery and murder however should be the norm, not something that feels like a burden. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can't accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won't accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their child. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren't interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. This isn't a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.
Animal agriculture isn't slavery. I can tell your exact skin tone by the fact you had the gall to make that comparison cx
Stealing labor while keeping the laborers alive at the barest minimum possible and trading them as property is slavery.
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do.
The bourgeoisie make no difference between me and the cow, except for the commodity we produce. They will push to extract our laborforce at the exact cost it requires to sustain it. The cow is a comrade and fighting for their rights is fighting the system that looks to enslave us as well. If you can't see how the methods in husbandry are used against us then have a look at the holocaust.
Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs “special” catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won’t last.
If belligerent internet comments actually convinced you to change your diet in such an inconvenient manner for no reward but moral superiority, you are not like the people you're trying to convince. Abusers and cults love bomb because its more effective on a random sample of people
If one believes that the mother losing her newborn cries about it for days and that this is happening on an industrial scale that person will be very indignant about such a horrific injustice. That's what convinced me, this is a real injustice and not being angry about it would be insincere
Convincing people to be ethical past the point of inconvenience requires insincerity, yes. The average person is a horrible human being
@Stovetop did not say nor implied that he/she is not vegan, because of the community.
I probably should be vegan ... But ... I would never want to participate in a vegan community.
Seems pretty clear to me.
You can take part in something without taking part in the community about that thing, though. I play guitar a lot, but I don't frequent any guitar-based communities
I'm fully aware, but "I'm not going vegan because they're so annoying" is a pretty common excuse.
It is a common excuse. And yet you're still being really annoying.
Not only is that clearly not the reason in this case, of what you say is true (and I believe it considering your behavior) that's a pretty damning indictment about your collective personalities.
Youre blaming OTHERS for leaving your cause because YOU'RE impossible to put up with. Pathetic. The literal definition of that meme where the dude puts the stick into his bike spokes and then cries about it.
If you hate non-vegans so much then stop talking to them. Simple as.
Im saying if someone stops being vegan because of what people say they dont actually hold the moral conviction that torture, rape and murder of any animal is wrong. I'm not crying about others leavinge "the cause" Im angry at the smugness and how readily people will accept any excuse in order to keep the literal orphan crushing machine going.
I gave being vegan a go but stopped because I couldn't keep up with it.
Working 60-hour weeks makes it hard to meal prep, so I order out a lot, and there aren't many vegan friendly dining options in my area.
I ended up skipping a lot of family gatherings because Cantonese food isn't all that vegan friendly. The one thing I never wanted to be was "that guy" who needed a special menu when invited to social events, so I thought it was easier to just withdraw. Being very lactose intolerant as a kid did not help in that regard when friends would want to go out for ice cream or eat birthday cake and I'd always feel like "that guy".
At a particularly low point for me, when I was eating the same garden salad for dinner for 2 weeks straight, I ended up having a bit of a breakdown. My therapist said that it is admirable to be vegan, but my behavior at the time was verging on having a martyr complex, and that I should stop punishing myself to make a point.
I'm currently a pescatarian, which is the only concession I could make at present to let myself eat my family's home-cooked meals that are usually made with a fish sauce of some sort. I'd like to try going vegan again at some point when I'm in a better mental space, but it's something that some of us have to find our way into gradually.
I don't know you and if you're being sincere about your harm reduction then that's great. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, the clothes I wear I made from human slavery, the produce from the exploitation of migrant workers. But people want to be blind to this so they can enjoy their treats in peace while there is a world of suffering around us, that's what gets me so riled up. The wilful ignorance.
Then you need to go back to school for reading comprehension, because being a vegan and participating in a community about veganism are not the same thing, not even remotely close.
and yet that seems to be the stated reason...
Only because you're inferring a lot from a couple comments. You don't know why they aren't vegan (which could be for any number of reasons), the only thing you know, and are basing your entire assumptions on, is that they don't want to hang out in spaces full of insufferable vegans.
I wonder why they would be mean...
Good job! This is the comment that made them turn vegan! Mission accomplished!
That's not the goal. They attack people because that makes them feel better. Animals? Who cares. Definitely not them.
I'm a cow and this made me feel better about my fate
yes. it is the vegans who really hate animals!
What I said is that you don't help animals with your hysteria. So I can conclude vegans struggle with logic. At least in your case.
brutal take down. nice
it definitely seems so sometimes
and never the people who fund an industrial killing machine for food we don't actually need and will kill us both individually and collectively.
I was going to stop torturing animals, but some mean vegan said some words that hurt my feelings.
So now I'm going to eat two burgers!
chortle!
I think I will actually do this now just to prove you wrong
legendary!
If your belief lives or dies because of some internet comment it won't last anyway.
Edit: as in, what sustains it is the actual moral implications of a non-vegan lifestyle. I was convinced to go vegan by internet comments like this.
See here’s what’s really really funny, people over and over again say “man if the vegan people who were trying to convince me could just not be gigantic assholes about it then maybe it would be easier to join their community”
And then you come along and are a gigantic asshole about it and prove the entire point.
Super solid representation, 5/7, perfection.
Having a reasonable discussion with these people is like trying to play a game of chess with a pigeon. They'll topple all the pieces, shit on the board and claim victory.
Gonna copy large chunks of my last comment because no ones there to stop me.
This isn't a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. Not supporting slavery and murder should be the norm, not something that needs to be argued for at length. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can't accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won't accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their newborn. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren't interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. It's a horrific injustice and we will talk about it as such. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.
this is pretty much just appeal to emotion.
Here is another one: That meat on your plate comes from an animal that could feel. It had a whole life full of feelings and dreams. It might've liked some food but disliked other, it probably had friends, it had a mom and a dad, it was loved. Then they killed it, shipped it, you cooked it and ate it.
very good. have you considered creative writing as a career?
thing is, it's a philosophy of empathy and compassion. you don't really join a.commmunity. there are no V cards I'm afraid.
This discussion is literally about the vegan community here on Lemmy
I thought it was more about abuse.
If you need people to be nice to you to convince you, you care more about appearances than the argument. If people being rude stops you from acting on something you actually believe in you won't last a month as a vegan.
Going vegan means changing your habits, giving up a lot of your treats with nothing in return. You will be the weird one at christmas that needs "special" catering, people have to choose restaurants based on your habits and you will be the butt of a lot of jokes simply because you care about animals not being enslaved. If you need people to be nice to you, and applaud you and make you feel all warm and fuzzy to keep that going you won't last.
The first lesson every vegan needs to learn is: there are no rewards and no one will compliment you. You are doing this out of your own conviction and not for anyone else.
This is precisely the circlejerking mentioned in the meme. Whether true or not, the community presents itself as unwelcoming and self-aggrandizing. These are not traits that easily convince people to listen to the cause.
There's nothing to listen to, either you believe animal ag is horrendous and unethical and act on it or you don't. That's it. No pretty pleases are going to convince someone they have to give up their beloved steak and cheese for nothing in return.
Then why are you trying so hard to explain yourself?
Right, we get it, but if you tried attracting people to veganism with amazing recipes, and annecdotes of how much healthier you feel, people might come have a conversation and try making some vegan food. Instead these communities drive anyone non-vegan right out the door.
What's the expression? Honey will catch more flies?
Reformism doesn't work. People that are vegan because it's "actually really good food" or looking for applause for "saving the planet" stop being vegan once it becomes too inconvenient. Because their mindset is that they are doing something good and you can stop doing good things or balance them out with other good deeds and there is an inherent expectation of a reward for being good.
Not supporting slavery and murder however should be the norm, not something that feels like a burden. Being vegan is not doing something good, but not being vegan is doing something evil. This is our position. If someone can't accept that what their doing is evil but needs to be asked nicely not to kill the screaming orphan who never got to meet his mom because we wanted to steal her milk then they won't accept that it is an actual real evil that is taking place. It will remain a theoretical. But there really is a room where these orphans are brought to be murdered. A person murdering them. And a mother who screamed bitterly over losing their child. It is a real evil and being polite about it masks the horror taking place not to mention is completely insincere since we aren't interested in debating or in weighing pros and cons. This isn't a debate like how should we reduce plastic accumulation or the carcinogenic properties of red meat. There is an evil inherent to not being vegan. Fuck the non-vegans.
Animal agriculture isn't slavery. I can tell your exact skin tone by the fact you had the gall to make that comparison cx
Stealing labor while keeping the laborers alive at the barest minimum possible and trading them as property is slavery.
comparing slaves to animals is what slavers do.
The bourgeoisie make no difference between me and the cow, except for the commodity we produce. They will push to extract our laborforce at the exact cost it requires to sustain it. The cow is a comrade and fighting for their rights is fighting the system that looks to enslave us as well. If you can't see how the methods in husbandry are used against us then have a look at the holocaust.
it is. most people oppose slavery and murder.
Well this has been great, thanks for being the point.
good talk nice representation, really convinced me to be nicer to corpsemunchers going forward.
You're a breatharian? No corpse munching from you.
Are you pure enough that you feed the bacteria in your body without suffering?
while i think you are actually starting to violate community rules here, i just wanna say i think your conduct up to this point has been fine.
You must be exhausting to be around. sheesh
this should be on a billboard.
If belligerent internet comments actually convinced you to change your diet in such an inconvenient manner for no reward but moral superiority, you are not like the people you're trying to convince. Abusers and cults love bomb because its more effective on a random sample of people
If one believes that the mother losing her newborn cries about it for days and that this is happening on an industrial scale that person will be very indignant about such a horrific injustice. That's what convinced me, this is a real injustice and not being angry about it would be insincere
Convincing people to be ethical past the point of inconvenience requires insincerity, yes. The average person is a horrible human being
@Stovetop did not say nor implied that he/she is not vegan, because of the community.
Seems pretty clear to me.
You can take part in something without taking part in the community about that thing, though. I play guitar a lot, but I don't frequent any guitar-based communities
I'm fully aware, but "I'm not going vegan because they're so annoying" is a pretty common excuse.
It is a common excuse. And yet you're still being really annoying.
Take the L dude.
Not only is that clearly not the reason in this case, of what you say is true (and I believe it considering your behavior) that's a pretty damning indictment about your collective personalities.
Youre blaming OTHERS for leaving your cause because YOU'RE impossible to put up with. Pathetic. The literal definition of that meme where the dude puts the stick into his bike spokes and then cries about it.
If you hate non-vegans so much then stop talking to them. Simple as.
Im saying if someone stops being vegan because of what people say they dont actually hold the moral conviction that torture, rape and murder of any animal is wrong. I'm not crying about others leavinge "the cause" Im angry at the smugness and how readily people will accept any excuse in order to keep the literal orphan crushing machine going.
I gave being vegan a go but stopped because I couldn't keep up with it.
Working 60-hour weeks makes it hard to meal prep, so I order out a lot, and there aren't many vegan friendly dining options in my area.
I ended up skipping a lot of family gatherings because Cantonese food isn't all that vegan friendly. The one thing I never wanted to be was "that guy" who needed a special menu when invited to social events, so I thought it was easier to just withdraw. Being very lactose intolerant as a kid did not help in that regard when friends would want to go out for ice cream or eat birthday cake and I'd always feel like "that guy".
At a particularly low point for me, when I was eating the same garden salad for dinner for 2 weeks straight, I ended up having a bit of a breakdown. My therapist said that it is admirable to be vegan, but my behavior at the time was verging on having a martyr complex, and that I should stop punishing myself to make a point.
I'm currently a pescatarian, which is the only concession I could make at present to let myself eat my family's home-cooked meals that are usually made with a fish sauce of some sort. I'd like to try going vegan again at some point when I'm in a better mental space, but it's something that some of us have to find our way into gradually.
I don't know you and if you're being sincere about your harm reduction then that's great. There is no ethical consumption under capitalism, the clothes I wear I made from human slavery, the produce from the exploitation of migrant workers. But people want to be blind to this so they can enjoy their treats in peace while there is a world of suffering around us, that's what gets me so riled up. The wilful ignorance.
Yeah that isn't what they said though
Then you need to go back to school for reading comprehension, because being a vegan and participating in a community about veganism are not the same thing, not even remotely close.
and yet that seems to be the stated reason...
Only because you're inferring a lot from a couple comments. You don't know why they aren't vegan (which could be for any number of reasons), the only thing you know, and are basing your entire assumptions on, is that they don't want to hang out in spaces full of insufferable vegans.
Only if you have poor reading comprehension.