This is happening all over the world. The USA are just a little further ahead compared to Europe.
That's true, but whataboutism doesn't help much in a thread about the US election. Besides, in hardly any other democratic country in the world is the far-right or fascist candidate so obviously completely unsuitable: Trump has already been president and has previously made policies contrary to the interests of the idiots who voted for him; he has a criminal record for fraud and has been found guilty in various proceedings for many other crimes, such as sexual harassment, defamation and fraud amounting to millions. It doesn't get any more obvious than that.
Yeah but so many people here didn't vote for him and are just as appalled, so when we're lumped in with the people who did vote for him that's gonna make people pretty defensive
Yes, I get that of course. I'm sorry for you and every other US citizen that did not vote for him. I'm from Europe and still posted some anti-Trump stuff because I despise him and everything he stands for. I think he is a threat for the whole world.
It's not whataboutism when OC was the one saying it is a US specific issue
OC said America was full of stupid people. I can't see how that means that the US would be the only country full of stupid people. Of course there are lots and lots of stupid people elsewhere. Pointing that out in the context of the US election sure sounds like whataboutism to me. My only point is that it does not make things any better just because there are other countries with similar issues. But I see what you mean and think you are right: maybe other countries can learn something from this debacle - I don't have much hope anymore in that regard but we will see.
But the original comment, calling us all morons, is helpful?
No, of course not. It's just that even people from other countries are pissed because the US elected Trump a second time. Now we have to deal with his horrible policies again. I personally think the man is a threat for the whole democratic world and because of his horrible positions on climate change and other issues even for the whole world.
And you're right about all this, but calling us all idiots specifically is not helpful. Millions of Americans are incredibly upset by this. It will be disastrous and there's not a fucking thing we can do. We voted and it didn't matter.
I'm sorry if you took my comment that way. I'm really the very last person who wants to lump an entire country together. My point was simply that this election has once again shown that there are significant problems in the US (education, racism, corruption, inequality, etc.) that have allowed Trump to deceive the population yet again. To relativize now by pointing out that things are just as bad or even worse elsewhere in the world only distracts from the real issue in my opinion. Nevertheless, I wish you all the best and very much hope that you can somehow put a stop to Trump's greed and his terrible ideology.
Way further ahead. Dude literally says he wants to be a dictator.
Only on day 1 haha. Gonna be something interesting to see happen. We should get bingo cards going for day 1
You go ahead and make bingo cards, I'll be prepping for the civil war.
Thanks for trying to make us feel better, but...
That is simply not true. The extremely varied political landscape of Europe is not comparable to the US...
Wow almost like people are getting sick of being told what to do and how to think by the woke ideology.
Did we huwt youw feewings?
No. You acted as though u had the right to tell me what to do and that i was a bad for how i was born. U judged me by the colour of my skin not the quality if my charecter, and i dont like that.
If that's what you think equity looks like then I'd say any judgement of your character was likely spot on.
Whats wrong with my understanding of equallity? Please elaborate
Waste of time since your ability to read seems low. Equality β equity
Ohh that wasnt a typo?
Ok then would u agree
equallity = equal oppertunity
And
Equity = equall outcome
?
No. Reductively I'd say equity is a prerequisite for equal opportunity.
Well thats just illogical how would u define equity?
Equity comes out of the idea that people don't all have the same ability or means to do things. Equity is the leveling of the playing field so that no matter someone's level of intelligence, economic background, or any other efficiency/deficiency, everyone has the same opportunity to participate.
Equality gives staircases to everyone. In this case, not everyone can go up a floor. Equity builds ramps, lifts, or both. In this case everyone has an equal opportunity to go up a floor. You can't have equal opportunity without equity.
Say im really good at running up staircases should i not be rewarded for my staircase climbing prowess?
Should i be forces to stop climbing staircases to build an elevator for people who cant climb stairs?
Say im really good at climbing stairs but im lazy why would i bother climbing stairs to build an elevator for someone when i could simply wait till someone builds an elevator for me?
If u cant make it up a floor then thats unfortunate take it up with Charles darwin.
All we can see here is the quality of your character. And guess what
Was i talking about u (as in u personaly) or u as in ur ideology and its advocates i interact with irl?
U u u ur.
Learn how to spell.
Ok boomer
Being older than 12 doesn't make someone a boomer.
Typing out the whole word doesnt make someone younger.
You're an idiot. Goodbye troll.
Does it look like i live under a bridge?
If you're not a queer person of color this comment is so insanely ironic.
Why must i be a queer person of colour? Sounds like ur saying im not allowed to think or say this without being a queer person of colour. Did u just prove my point?
No you troglodyte, I'm saying you're proving theirs.
So now ur calling me a troglodyte. Why? In an attempt to bully me into complying?
No, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were living under a rock since the alternative is a bit embarrassing.
Can u stop insulting me and enguage with my ideas in good faith?
You mean to tell me you're engaging in good faith and not just rage bait? You used the term "woke ideology" completely earnestly?
Woke ideology is a social and philosophical movement that prioritizes identity politics, cultural Marxism, and social constructivism.
It emphasises:
The importance of group identity over individual identity
The existence of systemic oppression and power imbalances
The need to challenge and dismantle these systems
Basicly
Language policing
Cancel culture
Moral absolutism
Compliance and conformity
This then meads to:
Intellectual suppression
Censorship
Social conformity
Divisiveness
You can apply all of this to the Trump conservative movement, except that systemic oppression and power imbalances are treated as natural, and thus (at best) not something we need to be concerned about.
Really lets try it:
"The Trump conservative movement is a social and philosophical movement that prioritizes identity politics, cultural Marxism, and social constructivism." - some guy on lemmy
I mean, Trump conservatism is clearly influenced and informed by post-modernist philosophy. Social constructivism is there in spades. Identity politics predate all of this and have been used by both sides extensively over time. Cultural Marxism... I'm not even sure what it is - sort of an amalgam of critical theory and (((them)))? Okay, you got me on that one.
Lmao did you just make that up yourself?
No i asked my uncensored ai
At least you admit you actually can't think for yourself
The guys not even American and he's following Trump like a sheep. How stupid can people be?
I believe its called research. U should try it at some point.
Consulting a semantically aware text predictor is not research, and I'm not even an anti AI guy.
Reads the term βCultural Marxismββ¦ stops reading.
Hey it's uh like when you grow a beard that seems like Marx would like it.
Iβm pretty sure if Marx had met hipsters then the fucker wouldβve been clean shaven pretty quickly.
I'm sure he'd be pissed about most things that go on today. I was just looking for something that "cultural Marxism" could possibly mean.
Iβd love Karlβs view on Putin/Russia right nowβ¦ Youβre right trying to find a meaning for that nonsense phrase. I remember doing a web search when I first read it - maybe it meant something. Beyond the reference sites it was all US right wing publications using the term. If only one section of one society is using a phrase that should tell you something about the phrase.
And block the fucker too.
I hear what youβre saying, butβ¦ Iβm no blocker.
Great. I have no bandwidth to deal with these assholes though.
I guess u cant see this but enjoy ur echo chamber. Its been proven echo chambers make people more extremist.
Why u gonna engage with the ideas or just sit their brooding with a disapproving look?
Imagine I was hungry and you kindly served up a platter of exotic and mysterious food but right in the middle of it there was a festering lump of rotten meatβ¦ suddenly I wouldnβt be so hungry. Thatβs how I feel whenever I encounter that term. Thereβs no great bogeyman controlling things - itβs just that humanity is slowly moving away from its obsession with invisible sky men telling everyone how to live.
The fuck do some words that describe a sociopolitical concept have to do with rotten meat and a magic sky man?
Iβm more than happy to ponder the βsociopolitical conceptβ of an ongoing culture war that may (or may not) be taking place in western civilisation. The term βCultural Marxismβ is, in and of itself, at best, a conspiracy theory dressed in its Sunday best. Iβm sorry the food analogy was lost on you. I was trying to say that those two words turned me off everything else you were saying. The sky man crowd are generally the largest contingent against the βculturally Marxistβ shift in society so I thought Iβd give them a shout out, for their troubles.
Ok ur doing an awfull lot of bearing around the bush. Explain what exactly is wrong with the concept of cultural Marxism. Call it what u want but address the issue itself.
CM is the personification of a supposed organised movement aiming to eradicate the traditional Bible-based societal norms of modern Western European culture. Many people implicitly, and some explicitly, implicate βthe Jewsβ as being behind it. Whilst modern (western) society is undoubtedly undergoing seismic reshaping in its very fabric the idea that people in the shadows are behind it is all a bit fairy tale to me. It discounts the possibility that it is society, collectively, evolving on a social level; organically. The Renaissance partly happened because of the invention of printing. Could not a second Renaissance be happening in the age of the internet - hence the binary positions adopted by so many people? Two incompatible positions striving for control. Interestingly this is where Marx could come in and give us a dialectical breakdown of the two opposing western factions. Maybe.
Somehow vague and semi specific at the same time. Just dressed up crybaby bullshit for "I can't insult minorities with impunity anymore!"
You are literally defining conservatives everywhere. Do you not fucking get it?
Get what?
And yeah the left and right of the political spectrum as well as the top and bottom are conjoined. Effectively the political spectrum is topologically a torus.
One thing I have noticed is that conservatives everywhere absolutely want to tell everyone else what to do, while crying like little snowflakes about 'wokeism' (and none of them can answer what it is).
Projection and all that.
If u could read u would see my definition in responce to the guy who asked. I really wouldnt consider myself a conservative either but since im not with you i must be your enemy.
Just thought I'd drop this little tidbit... I tagged you a while ago "likes the R word a lot". People are so predictable.
Predictability doesnt make me wrong.
But being a bigot sure as shit does
Welp i havnt done that.
You argued in favor of using the R word after using it. It's not really debatable.
Im a diagnosed retard. If i cant say retarded then black people cant say the n word. Seems fair to me.
America is a country full of stupid people.
This is happening all over the world. The USA are just a little further ahead compared to Europe.
That's true, but whataboutism doesn't help much in a thread about the US election. Besides, in hardly any other democratic country in the world is the far-right or fascist candidate so obviously completely unsuitable: Trump has already been president and has previously made policies contrary to the interests of the idiots who voted for him; he has a criminal record for fraud and has been found guilty in various proceedings for many other crimes, such as sexual harassment, defamation and fraud amounting to millions. It doesn't get any more obvious than that.
Yeah but so many people here didn't vote for him and are just as appalled, so when we're lumped in with the people who did vote for him that's gonna make people pretty defensive
Yes, I get that of course. I'm sorry for you and every other US citizen that did not vote for him. I'm from Europe and still posted some anti-Trump stuff because I despise him and everything he stands for. I think he is a threat for the whole world.
It's not whataboutism when OC was the one saying it is a US specific issue
OC said America was full of stupid people. I can't see how that means that the US would be the only country full of stupid people. Of course there are lots and lots of stupid people elsewhere. Pointing that out in the context of the US election sure sounds like whataboutism to me. My only point is that it does not make things any better just because there are other countries with similar issues. But I see what you mean and think you are right: maybe other countries can learn something from this debacle - I don't have much hope anymore in that regard but we will see.
But the original comment, calling us all morons, is helpful?
No, of course not. It's just that even people from other countries are pissed because the US elected Trump a second time. Now we have to deal with his horrible policies again. I personally think the man is a threat for the whole democratic world and because of his horrible positions on climate change and other issues even for the whole world.
And you're right about all this, but calling us all idiots specifically is not helpful. Millions of Americans are incredibly upset by this. It will be disastrous and there's not a fucking thing we can do. We voted and it didn't matter.
I'm sorry if you took my comment that way. I'm really the very last person who wants to lump an entire country together. My point was simply that this election has once again shown that there are significant problems in the US (education, racism, corruption, inequality, etc.) that have allowed Trump to deceive the population yet again. To relativize now by pointing out that things are just as bad or even worse elsewhere in the world only distracts from the real issue in my opinion. Nevertheless, I wish you all the best and very much hope that you can somehow put a stop to Trump's greed and his terrible ideology.
Way further ahead. Dude literally says he wants to be a dictator.
Only on day 1 haha. Gonna be something interesting to see happen. We should get bingo cards going for day 1
You go ahead and make bingo cards, I'll be prepping for the civil war.
Thanks for trying to make us feel better, but...
That is simply not true. The extremely varied political landscape of Europe is not comparable to the US...
Wow almost like people are getting sick of being told what to do and how to think by the woke ideology.
Did we huwt youw feewings?
No. You acted as though u had the right to tell me what to do and that i was a bad for how i was born. U judged me by the colour of my skin not the quality if my charecter, and i dont like that.
If that's what you think equity looks like then I'd say any judgement of your character was likely spot on.
Whats wrong with my understanding of equallity? Please elaborate
Waste of time since your ability to read seems low. Equality β equity
Ohh that wasnt a typo?
Ok then would u agree equallity = equal oppertunity And Equity = equall outcome
?
No. Reductively I'd say equity is a prerequisite for equal opportunity.
Well thats just illogical how would u define equity?
Equity comes out of the idea that people don't all have the same ability or means to do things. Equity is the leveling of the playing field so that no matter someone's level of intelligence, economic background, or any other efficiency/deficiency, everyone has the same opportunity to participate.
Equality gives staircases to everyone. In this case, not everyone can go up a floor. Equity builds ramps, lifts, or both. In this case everyone has an equal opportunity to go up a floor. You can't have equal opportunity without equity.
Say im really good at running up staircases should i not be rewarded for my staircase climbing prowess?
Should i be forces to stop climbing staircases to build an elevator for people who cant climb stairs?
Say im really good at climbing stairs but im lazy why would i bother climbing stairs to build an elevator for someone when i could simply wait till someone builds an elevator for me?
If u cant make it up a floor then thats unfortunate take it up with Charles darwin.
Sorry you took our opposition to colonialism and white supremacy personally. Maybe you should think about why. That's clearly not the intention.
All we can see here is the quality of your character. And guess what
Was i talking about u (as in u personaly) or u as in ur ideology and its advocates i interact with irl?
U u u ur.
Learn how to spell.
Ok boomer
Being older than 12 doesn't make someone a boomer.
Typing out the whole word doesnt make someone younger.
You're an idiot. Goodbye troll.
Does it look like i live under a bridge?
If you're not a queer person of color this comment is so insanely ironic.
Why must i be a queer person of colour? Sounds like ur saying im not allowed to think or say this without being a queer person of colour. Did u just prove my point?
No you troglodyte, I'm saying you're proving theirs.
So now ur calling me a troglodyte. Why? In an attempt to bully me into complying?
No, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assumed you were living under a rock since the alternative is a bit embarrassing.
Can u stop insulting me and enguage with my ideas in good faith?
You mean to tell me you're engaging in good faith and not just rage bait? You used the term "woke ideology" completely earnestly?
Ok what should i call it?
Can you define exactly what woke ideology is?
Woke ideology is a social and philosophical movement that prioritizes identity politics, cultural Marxism, and social constructivism.
It emphasises:
Basicly
This then meads to:
You can apply all of this to the Trump conservative movement, except that systemic oppression and power imbalances are treated as natural, and thus (at best) not something we need to be concerned about.
Really lets try it:
"The Trump conservative movement is a social and philosophical movement that prioritizes identity politics, cultural Marxism, and social constructivism." - some guy on lemmy
I mean, Trump conservatism is clearly influenced and informed by post-modernist philosophy. Social constructivism is there in spades. Identity politics predate all of this and have been used by both sides extensively over time. Cultural Marxism... I'm not even sure what it is - sort of an amalgam of critical theory and (((them)))? Okay, you got me on that one.
Lmao did you just make that up yourself?
No i asked my uncensored ai
At least you admit you actually can't think for yourself
The guys not even American and he's following Trump like a sheep. How stupid can people be?
I believe its called research. U should try it at some point.
Consulting a semantically aware text predictor is not research, and I'm not even an anti AI guy.
Reads the term βCultural Marxismββ¦ stops reading.
Hey it's uh like when you grow a beard that seems like Marx would like it.
Iβm pretty sure if Marx had met hipsters then the fucker wouldβve been clean shaven pretty quickly.
I'm sure he'd be pissed about most things that go on today. I was just looking for something that "cultural Marxism" could possibly mean.
Iβd love Karlβs view on Putin/Russia right nowβ¦ Youβre right trying to find a meaning for that nonsense phrase. I remember doing a web search when I first read it - maybe it meant something. Beyond the reference sites it was all US right wing publications using the term. If only one section of one society is using a phrase that should tell you something about the phrase.
And block the fucker too.
I hear what youβre saying, butβ¦ Iβm no blocker.
Great. I have no bandwidth to deal with these assholes though.
I guess u cant see this but enjoy ur echo chamber. Its been proven echo chambers make people more extremist.
Why u gonna engage with the ideas or just sit their brooding with a disapproving look?
Imagine I was hungry and you kindly served up a platter of exotic and mysterious food but right in the middle of it there was a festering lump of rotten meatβ¦ suddenly I wouldnβt be so hungry. Thatβs how I feel whenever I encounter that term. Thereβs no great bogeyman controlling things - itβs just that humanity is slowly moving away from its obsession with invisible sky men telling everyone how to live.
The fuck do some words that describe a sociopolitical concept have to do with rotten meat and a magic sky man?
Iβm more than happy to ponder the βsociopolitical conceptβ of an ongoing culture war that may (or may not) be taking place in western civilisation. The term βCultural Marxismβ is, in and of itself, at best, a conspiracy theory dressed in its Sunday best. Iβm sorry the food analogy was lost on you. I was trying to say that those two words turned me off everything else you were saying. The sky man crowd are generally the largest contingent against the βculturally Marxistβ shift in society so I thought Iβd give them a shout out, for their troubles.
Ok ur doing an awfull lot of bearing around the bush. Explain what exactly is wrong with the concept of cultural Marxism. Call it what u want but address the issue itself.
CM is the personification of a supposed organised movement aiming to eradicate the traditional Bible-based societal norms of modern Western European culture. Many people implicitly, and some explicitly, implicate βthe Jewsβ as being behind it. Whilst modern (western) society is undoubtedly undergoing seismic reshaping in its very fabric the idea that people in the shadows are behind it is all a bit fairy tale to me. It discounts the possibility that it is society, collectively, evolving on a social level; organically. The Renaissance partly happened because of the invention of printing. Could not a second Renaissance be happening in the age of the internet - hence the binary positions adopted by so many people? Two incompatible positions striving for control. Interestingly this is where Marx could come in and give us a dialectical breakdown of the two opposing western factions. Maybe.
Somehow vague and semi specific at the same time. Just dressed up crybaby bullshit for "I can't insult minorities with impunity anymore!"
Mkre bad faith insults really?
Holy fuck, haha.
You are literally defining conservatives everywhere. Do you not fucking get it?
Get what?
And yeah the left and right of the political spectrum as well as the top and bottom are conjoined. Effectively the political spectrum is topologically a torus.
One thing I have noticed is that conservatives everywhere absolutely want to tell everyone else what to do, while crying like little snowflakes about 'wokeism' (and none of them can answer what it is).
Projection and all that.
If u could read u would see my definition in responce to the guy who asked. I really wouldnt consider myself a conservative either but since im not with you i must be your enemy.
Just thought I'd drop this little tidbit... I tagged you a while ago "likes the R word a lot". People are so predictable.
Predictability doesnt make me wrong.
But being a bigot sure as shit does
Welp i havnt done that.
You argued in favor of using the R word after using it. It's not really debatable.
Im a diagnosed retard. If i cant say retarded then black people cant say the n word. Seems fair to me.
What a good look
To be fair, isn't everywhere? Yeah I get it we have some real morons but the uneducated fucks that voted for Trump don't define us
Sorry, we live in a democracy and the majority rules.
What point do you think you're making?
That we are defined by them because we are a democracy, and pretending America is somehow good doesnβt change that.
I didn't pretend America is good. It's quite clearly a piece of shit. I won't humor anymore snide bullshit because my point was very self evident
Yes, and I disagree with it. The uneducated fucks who voted for Trump most certainly define us.
51% of voters at least.
Coming soon to a neighborhood near you. π
Whatever helps you cope.