I'm glad this was in politics. Because it's certainly not news
Vote based on comment quality, not agreement. This community aims to foster discussion, please reward people for putting effort into articulating their viewpoint, even if you disagree with it.
Wow. The updoinks.. Such quality discourse and amazing insight!
How is this entire sub not considered a giant circle tug?
You're right that it wasn't a very high quality post, but with this topic, what else is there to say? Conservatives have been pretending they're free speech warriors while at the same time very publicly banning books. It's so obvious that there isn't really anything to discuss.
Because the post articulated what the majority of us already knew. That as always has been, the repression in this country comes from the conservatives. The very definition of a liberal philosophy would be against a threat to free speech. When conservatives complain their rights are being trampled on, it's normally their "right" to harm some group or person that they do not like. A liberal wouldn't say you aren't allowed to have a negative view of such person, but may consider it flawed, but wouldn't say you have a right to harm that person because you don't like them. Conservatives want to control what you can say, think, and do, to only what fits in a world that makes them comfortable, and feel better about themselves.
Please note that it is not only a US-specific issue. Right has especially in its extreme lengths always been somewhat oppressive and as the right has become more right (again) (also read as in more fascist) in recent years oppressive policies they support are getting more and more oppressive.
How about we let parents choose the schools and literature that their children read. No no no. Can't do that. That would be fascist!
I took a look at the “conservatives banning books” link and it says thousands of books have been banned and/or removed from libraries.
I took a look at your link, and it describes the process by which one book was removed from the required reading list, but was still allowed to be used in class.
It makes me think of the “we are not the same” meme.
Removing a book from the curriculum and removing it from the school (and possibly public libraries) entirely are very, very different. Republicans are doing the latter.
Yes, let's also let parents decide what medicine they get instead of doctors. And decide when their kids should be able to drive, not the government.
I mean why let educated professionals get in the way?
Yes, let's also let parents decide what medicine they get instead of doctors.
As a matter of fact, yes. As a parent, I have the responsibility to choose what medicines to allow my children to receive.
And decide when their kids should be able to drive, not the government.
Yep. If my 17 year old is too irresponsible to drive, I can choose to not let him.
Parents have the right to withhold anything they deem to be harmful to their children.
So if you decide you don't want a medicine for your child because you think it causes cancer, even if it doesn't, then you should be allowed to prevent him from taking it? Even if it kills him? No. No, that is a horrible idea.
And you think that you should control when your kid should drive too. Great, now irresponsible parents can ask 12 year olds to drive to the store for them? Endangering everyone around them? Another horrible idea.
Yes you can withhold things. But you don't have absolute say. They are a person. If your choices would cause them harm, such as an improper education or not getting needed medication, then it's the governments job to step in and protect that child.
"Improper education". There is the crux of it. Your definition of improper may not be the same as mine. You think that you should be able to force other people's children to be taught what you want them to be taught, according to your political and/or moral standards, through the force of government.
I want parents to be able to decide for their own children how they are taught. I think parents of a child know better how to raise that child than a government bureaucrat.
Tell me again how I'm the Nazi.
Nobody called you a Nazi until you self reported bro. Now we know, but you were being given the benefit of doubt.
Because there are objective community standards to how a kid grows and develops in our society and you have to conform to that whether you agree to it or not. You don't have the right to raise your kids however you want and it's a damn good thing you don't. That's how child abuse becomes endemic.
You're right, diffent people have diffent ideas of what a proper education is. And when I need to know the answer about something that every day people are bickering about I turn to professionals.
It's not about what I want to be taught, it's about what should and needs to be taught. I'm not saying I should decide that, but you sure as fuck shouldn't either. Again, trained, educated, experienced professionals in their field.
I won't get into it, but there are plenty examples through history and in most people's personal lives that show parents, in fact, do not always know what's best for their kids. Being a parent isn't some special feat. You had a kid, the thing almost anyone can do, it doesn't make you magically know everything about raising a child.
Also I never called you a Nazi, but thanks for letting me know where you stand.
neither he nor anybody else here has called you a nazi, but if you're so used to being called a nazi that you just assume anything you say is going to get you labeled as one, maybe you should have a think about why. if you met an asshole today, you met an asshole, but if you meet assholes all day every day, either you're a proctologist or you're the asshole.
anyway, to your point, the reason parents don't get to decide how public school educates their kids is because kids need to learn about evolution in order to understand any of biology, they need to learn about american slavery in order to understand anything about why this country is the way it is, they need to learn about objectivity vs. subjectivity and how statistics work in order to detect when they're being lied to, by, say, fox news, and they need to learn about how their own bodies work so that they don't get and spread stds, don't have unwanted pregnancies and drop out of college, don't think they're freaks if their gender or sexuality doesn't fit neatly into one of the standard boxes, and do know what sexual abuse is and what to do if it happens to them. and parents claiming parents' rights on education are always and only ever doing it because they want their kids to be ignorant on all of those subjects, with all the negative consequences that follow from that. and that was also something the nazis wanted, hence why they burned down and destroyed the work of the institute for sexual research, as well as a bunch of other stuff.
so yeah, i'm not going to call you a nazi, but i am going to say that the things you argue for align pretty closely with things the nazis argued for.
A lot of what you stated is subjective. Your definition of ignorance on a subject might be different than mine. Thankfully however, you did mention one thing that can be measured with some absolutes....
they need to learn about how their own bodies work so that they don't get and spread stds
I could be wrong, but it would seem most of the people here think that private education, selected by the parent, would result in luddites that, for example, can't figure out how babies are made. That somehow the parents are incapable of teaching their own children these things. Were that the case, I would assume that the increase in public education, and decrease in private education, would decrease the number of STIs that are occurring.
Huh. How is all that sexual "education" working out? Seems we're in worse shape than before. I think I'll let my kids be ignorant like me and teach them to treat sex as something to be reserved for marriage, like I was.
Educate your kids how you want. I'll educate mine how I want. Seems fair. Problem is, that's not enough for the left. They want absolute power and tyranny over others.
You're free to homeschool your child, nobody is stopping you.
Interesting. I didn't know I could take the funds that my public schools get per pupil and pay that to my kids private school instead.
Interesting, you think you could get your money back for the roads you don't drive on? 🤔
very little if any of what i said was subjective, and everything i said that was controversial has decades of data behind it. i don't think you know what "subjective" means. maybe you would if you'd paid attention in public school
Yeah cool, you decide what your property gets to do since you're responsible for them. Government, nor your doctor shall stop you from telling your creation what is right or wrong, if you eat paint for breakfast because eating plants and animals is evil/poison, thats your right as a free man on the land. Best to start early too, so they dont have the faculties to question it later on.
It's not like there are bad actors and tens of thousands of ai gemerated fake news to sway popular opinion with branding and politics. And its totally a boon for a society when we can isolate ourselves in thought bubbles and share as few values as united people as possible. Really helps us maintain our financial security and opportunities for quality of life, standards for education and licensing for professionals responsible for life altering decisions. Its not like devaluing those professional opinions im mass will lead to bad things; what do they evem know, they didnt even study at Facebook UNIV?
The idea and value of freedom is great, but there are thresholds that cross into ignorant arrogance that causes individual and systemic harm. I know gov can't solve this, but i fully believe it has a role to play in helping set standards that reduce harm, even for your kids.
No fucking shit
I'm glad this was in politics. Because it's certainly not news
Wow. The updoinks.. Such quality discourse and amazing insight!
How is this entire sub not considered a giant circle tug?
You're right that it wasn't a very high quality post, but with this topic, what else is there to say? Conservatives have been pretending they're free speech warriors while at the same time very publicly banning books. It's so obvious that there isn't really anything to discuss.
Because the post articulated what the majority of us already knew. That as always has been, the repression in this country comes from the conservatives. The very definition of a liberal philosophy would be against a threat to free speech. When conservatives complain their rights are being trampled on, it's normally their "right" to harm some group or person that they do not like. A liberal wouldn't say you aren't allowed to have a negative view of such person, but may consider it flawed, but wouldn't say you have a right to harm that person because you don't like them. Conservatives want to control what you can say, think, and do, to only what fits in a world that makes them comfortable, and feel better about themselves.
Please note that it is not only a US-specific issue. Right has especially in its extreme lengths always been somewhat oppressive and as the right has become more right (again) (also read as in more fascist) in recent years oppressive policies they support are getting more and more oppressive.
Ribbit
Yeah. It's only the conservatives doing it.
https://crosscut.com/news/2022/01/kill-mockingbird-hot-seat-wa-school-district
How about we let parents choose the schools and literature that their children read. No no no. Can't do that. That would be fascist!
I took a look at the “conservatives banning books” link and it says thousands of books have been banned and/or removed from libraries.
I took a look at your link, and it describes the process by which one book was removed from the required reading list, but was still allowed to be used in class.
It makes me think of the “we are not the same” meme.
Removing a book from the curriculum and removing it from the school (and possibly public libraries) entirely are very, very different. Republicans are doing the latter.
Yes, let's also let parents decide what medicine they get instead of doctors. And decide when their kids should be able to drive, not the government.
I mean why let educated professionals get in the way?
As a matter of fact, yes. As a parent, I have the responsibility to choose what medicines to allow my children to receive.
Yep. If my 17 year old is too irresponsible to drive, I can choose to not let him.
Parents have the right to withhold anything they deem to be harmful to their children.
So if you decide you don't want a medicine for your child because you think it causes cancer, even if it doesn't, then you should be allowed to prevent him from taking it? Even if it kills him? No. No, that is a horrible idea.
And you think that you should control when your kid should drive too. Great, now irresponsible parents can ask 12 year olds to drive to the store for them? Endangering everyone around them? Another horrible idea.
Yes you can withhold things. But you don't have absolute say. They are a person. If your choices would cause them harm, such as an improper education or not getting needed medication, then it's the governments job to step in and protect that child.
"Improper education". There is the crux of it. Your definition of improper may not be the same as mine. You think that you should be able to force other people's children to be taught what you want them to be taught, according to your political and/or moral standards, through the force of government.
I want parents to be able to decide for their own children how they are taught. I think parents of a child know better how to raise that child than a government bureaucrat.
Tell me again how I'm the Nazi.
Nobody called you a Nazi until you self reported bro. Now we know, but you were being given the benefit of doubt.
Because there are objective community standards to how a kid grows and develops in our society and you have to conform to that whether you agree to it or not. You don't have the right to raise your kids however you want and it's a damn good thing you don't. That's how child abuse becomes endemic.
You're right, diffent people have diffent ideas of what a proper education is. And when I need to know the answer about something that every day people are bickering about I turn to professionals.
It's not about what I want to be taught, it's about what should and needs to be taught. I'm not saying I should decide that, but you sure as fuck shouldn't either. Again, trained, educated, experienced professionals in their field.
I won't get into it, but there are plenty examples through history and in most people's personal lives that show parents, in fact, do not always know what's best for their kids. Being a parent isn't some special feat. You had a kid, the thing almost anyone can do, it doesn't make you magically know everything about raising a child.
Also I never called you a Nazi, but thanks for letting me know where you stand.
neither he nor anybody else here has called you a nazi, but if you're so used to being called a nazi that you just assume anything you say is going to get you labeled as one, maybe you should have a think about why. if you met an asshole today, you met an asshole, but if you meet assholes all day every day, either you're a proctologist or you're the asshole.
anyway, to your point, the reason parents don't get to decide how public school educates their kids is because kids need to learn about evolution in order to understand any of biology, they need to learn about american slavery in order to understand anything about why this country is the way it is, they need to learn about objectivity vs. subjectivity and how statistics work in order to detect when they're being lied to, by, say, fox news, and they need to learn about how their own bodies work so that they don't get and spread stds, don't have unwanted pregnancies and drop out of college, don't think they're freaks if their gender or sexuality doesn't fit neatly into one of the standard boxes, and do know what sexual abuse is and what to do if it happens to them. and parents claiming parents' rights on education are always and only ever doing it because they want their kids to be ignorant on all of those subjects, with all the negative consequences that follow from that. and that was also something the nazis wanted, hence why they burned down and destroyed the work of the institute for sexual research, as well as a bunch of other stuff.
so yeah, i'm not going to call you a nazi, but i am going to say that the things you argue for align pretty closely with things the nazis argued for.
A lot of what you stated is subjective. Your definition of ignorance on a subject might be different than mine. Thankfully however, you did mention one thing that can be measured with some absolutes....
I could be wrong, but it would seem most of the people here think that private education, selected by the parent, would result in luddites that, for example, can't figure out how babies are made. That somehow the parents are incapable of teaching their own children these things. Were that the case, I would assume that the increase in public education, and decrease in private education, would decrease the number of STIs that are occurring.
https://www.statista.com/chart/19597/total-reported-std-cases-in-the-us/
Huh. How is all that sexual "education" working out? Seems we're in worse shape than before. I think I'll let my kids be ignorant like me and teach them to treat sex as something to be reserved for marriage, like I was.
Educate your kids how you want. I'll educate mine how I want. Seems fair. Problem is, that's not enough for the left. They want absolute power and tyranny over others.
You're free to homeschool your child, nobody is stopping you.
Interesting. I didn't know I could take the funds that my public schools get per pupil and pay that to my kids private school instead.
Interesting, you think you could get your money back for the roads you don't drive on? 🤔
very little if any of what i said was subjective, and everything i said that was controversial has decades of data behind it. i don't think you know what "subjective" means. maybe you would if you'd paid attention in public school
🤣
Yeah cool, you decide what your property gets to do since you're responsible for them. Government, nor your doctor shall stop you from telling your creation what is right or wrong, if you eat paint for breakfast because eating plants and animals is evil/poison, thats your right as a free man on the land. Best to start early too, so they dont have the faculties to question it later on.
It's not like there are bad actors and tens of thousands of ai gemerated fake news to sway popular opinion with branding and politics. And its totally a boon for a society when we can isolate ourselves in thought bubbles and share as few values as united people as possible. Really helps us maintain our financial security and opportunities for quality of life, standards for education and licensing for professionals responsible for life altering decisions. Its not like devaluing those professional opinions im mass will lead to bad things; what do they evem know, they didnt even study at Facebook UNIV?
The idea and value of freedom is great, but there are thresholds that cross into ignorant arrogance that causes individual and systemic harm. I know gov can't solve this, but i fully believe it has a role to play in helping set standards that reduce harm, even for your kids.
Found the Trump supporter
C'mon, might just be gullible and uneducated.
So, the ones Trump said would vote for him? He loves the uneducated and gullible!
Yes, in other words, a Trump supporter.
u/Muchtall seems like as good as any to block.
Yes. Block the guy that doesn't agree with me. Seems reasonable.
Thank God you're here! I was starting to quote Marx and feelyself turning trans, but you woke me up!
Wait, no, come back! You dropped your gender!!
I don't understand. You're saying the conclusion is so obvious that the article is worthless and redundant?
I'm saying that. But also, it doesn't hurt to keep talking about it for those who haven't yet realized what's going on.