Older games are better than a lot of modern AAA slop, but not for the reasons she describes.
I was hoping she would talk about game design, or writing, mechanics, player agency, gameplay before graphics or literally anything else but she spent nearly 15 minutes only talking about tired culture wars talking points like, "why don't women look feminine aymore," "why are characters designed for diversity/inclusion first before story," "Concord sucks lol."
Yeah AAA writing is shit, please change the record so all the sweaty neckbeard virgins complaining about Aloy's facial hair can crawl back in their caves. So sick of hearing about it.
She shouts out Asmongold in her comments. Disgraceful.
Agreed with your reasons, but she made points I have never heard about that I found interesting, like disappearing of some femininity aspects to awkwardly try to avoid sexism accusations. I wanted to share a point of view that I think is rarely shared in gaming communities.
I don't follow YouTube drama much, so I don't know who Asmongold is.
The reason I ended up there is because I recently started playing Oblivion, and saw her videos mentioned.
she made points I have never heard about that I found interesting, like disappearing of some femininity aspects to awkwardly try to avoid sexism accusations.
These are very common talking points of gamer gate bigots. It's a giant red flag, because the people who talk about it are bigots
Pretty prejudiced take. Like in the literal sense of the word.
She shouts out a racist who was banned from twitch for bigotry, so I'd say it's pretty spot on as a red flag.
I think you may have a a specific experience that makes this very common for you. I personally don't interact with those subjects much, so I didn't know. Thank you for sharing your view.
Gamergate is not a very specific circumstance. It was a widespread harassment campaign involving the entire industry. This is a follow on from that movement, and any game that releases a female protagonist that isn't soft and demure gets active push back from this group.
disappearing of some femininity aspects
Can you describe some of those aspects that have been disappearing?
Reminds me that time gamer discovered girls have body hair because of Aloy.
She as a woman of course also has no idea what femininity is and that women have body hair.
I didn’t watch the video and probably never will, simply because I’ve watched too many and I hate that topic so much I spend the time I used to watch YouTube now on playing games.
I have played a particular western made game for the first time and finished it about a week ago. Without spoilering the massive thing that happens, I try to be as generic as possible: I have not played a single western made game in the last 5 years where the hero physically saves a girl, only to be saved by her emotionally.
I think that was too vague. Also, I'm not real clear if that's good or bad.
If I would be any less vague, it would be like "when Luke found out he kissed his sister shortly before facing his father for the final time"
I'm trying to think of any game I played that was like that. You have some examples (western or not, old or not) on your mind?
Kingdom Hearts would be one, FF9 another one, I think you could count NieR automata as well
I think it's better to check the source by yourself since it appears to be more sensitive than I expected.
Idk, it's sounds like you agreed with this point and I'm curious what your opinion was about it.
As I said, most of the points made in the video I didn't think about before, and I find it interesting to know other reasons why people play old games or are patient gamers, that's why I shared it here. I think the person is simply expressing her taste, maybe it's traditional stereotypes for some people, but you can't decide of your tastes, I didn't find it hateful. Now people who defend trans people found this video offensive, which I was miles away from expecting, and many people decided to jump on this wagon and decided this is a hateful post based on prior comments without watching the video. Also as I said other places, I am not knowledgeable in trans defense, so maybe it's possible they are correct.
You're the only person to mention trans people in this thread. It's got nothing to do with trans folk...
decided this is a hateful post based on prior comments without watching the video.
I had to watch the video to see her dog whistle.
And the whole thing about red flag/dog whistle comments is that they're designed to seem like nothing to people who don't recognise them. You not recognising a dog whistle doesn't mean it isn't one...
The fact that she shouts out another steamer that was banned from twitch for bigotry isn't a co-incidence. It's a red flag for a reason
Still waiting for the lost feminity you mentioned about.
I rarely click on YouTube links. For some reason I gave this one a try. Turns out she's bigoted.
That'll teach me for clicking
At one point I was looking for some help with implementing something akin to UE's Metahumans but in Godot.
Somehow I stumbled across this one, single person on youtube who had a half decent implementation of what I was looking for...
... and after watching some other videos on her channel... yep, she's an open NeoNazi.
That was enough internet for me, that day.
yep, she’s an open NeoNazi
In the interest of not giving a potential neo nazi any more views, what made you think this? Apart from if she said "I'm a neo nazi."
Well it was pretty much just openly saying it.
Her YT channel was a mix of fairly long, sort of livestream clips of development progress and notes... and then just clips of her livestreams where she wasn't really developing and was just responding to chats, going off about political topics, 'white genocide' this, 'every democrat is a f@g communist' that, a whole bunch of other dogwhistles or overt references to memes and slogans of various extremist right wing militia type groups...
Also, for clarity, I am not talking about OP's link, I'm talking about some very obscure other person I found months ago. Much , much lower view/su count, not even monetized. Also unlike OP's link, this person actually wrote code instead of just having opinions about things.
There is a difference between being on the conservative side of a culture war and being balls deep into extremist right wing ideology.
Oh I completely misunderstood your comment.
How about you just watch and make the call yourself? Nothing about the video made me think she's a neo nazi nor did I think she's a bigot. People are allowed to want and like different things. Just because they have different wants doesn't mean they should just get random negative label on them and then be hated without actually even seeing what they say.
Well, I literally began my comment with an answer to your first question.
Well, I pointed out the reason why your beginning comment is problematic. And as sp3tr4l pointed out, OP's link isn't even the one being referred to as the neo nazi.
They’re talking about the other commenter.
Yeah, just, I'm not talking about OP's link, I'm talking about someone else.
Ok, I was not considering this point of view at all when I shared this. I was thinking that's a different point of view on patient gaming that I didn't have.
I don't know if it could be classed as patient gaming. As I understand it, patient gamers will eventually get around to current games, just not now. It doesn't sound like she ever wants to play what's been released now due to her skewed views
I see what you mean but I think there's quite an intersection with patient gamers reasons.
YouTube is like the rest of the internet, some good, some bad.
YouTube, like other corporate social media and engagement platforms, thrives on anger and conflict, and pushes shitty takes higher up the recs list to get angry engagement.
So it's more likely to be bad than good.
What have y'all been clicking on YT? I watch, frankly, an unhealthy amount of YT and I don't get recommendations for hateful shit.
I barely use youtube. I actively avoid it as much as possible
2things.
Funny that people are trying to evangelise time wasting brainrot
Also you must have so much useful time without the time wasting brainrot.
goes back to watching people process clay for some insane reason
That depends on what you watch and subscribe. Watch angry, conflict-driven videos, and you'll get those.
I personally don't get any of that shit in my feed.
As I've said three times now, I barely use YouTube and then only direct links. This isn't that. YouTube rewards civil bigots so civil bigots are common and have big audiences
Which is why my general rule of thumb is to avoid the top channels. Some things I especially try to avoid:
lots of jump cuts
stupid thumbnails
clickbait headlines
Those are things that drive "engagement," and going after engagement for engagement's sake is a clear sign to me that the channel isn't worth my time. If the channel largely avoids that crap and still manages to have a respectable subscriber count, it's a lot more likely to be a decent channel. Some channels I really like:
Gamer's Nexus
Digital Foundry
Tech Ingredients
Each of those have high quality content, tend to avoid most of the above (still have BS thumbnails, but not nearly as bad as the big channels), and have a sizeable following. Good content absolutely exists, you just have to scrape away the crap on top to find decent channels.
That said, I no longer use my YT account, I just subbed to everything I care about on Grayjay and Newpipe (in case one fails, and NewPipe has failed more often than not for me), and I'll watch specific channels whenever I actually use YT's website.
Absolutely. Sticking to the things they know and avoiding the recs is how a lot of people use Youtube. But all of the things you avoid are thrown in your face in the recs. Clickbait titles, bait and switch content, dogwhistling videos that start people down the path of ever more bigoted content (for example, the video the OP posted).
I generally don't engage much with video content though, so I'll just continue to ignore it
all of the things you avoid are thrown in your face in the recs
Hence why I tend to avoid the YT website. I have disabled recommendations on NewPipe and Grayjay, and that's where 95% of my YT viewing comes from.
one of her reasons is "erasure of femininity in gaming" with a screen bemoaning "masculine features" of modern female characters, and her pinned comment says "you know things are bad when oblivion npcs are prettier than some of these new game characters" and also thanks asmongold for sending viewers her way.
so uh, how about no for this hateful garbage.
What here is hateful and if it is where is the hate aimed at?
I was surprised when she brought up Mortal Kombat as an example of over sexualized characters, and not, say, the entire Dead or Alive series. Especially Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. She does make some good points in her video, and I don't want to dismiss her point of view, but I feel she took the easy way out in addressing this point.
Games, and movies and tv, have treated women as sexual objects for a long time, and now the pendulum has swung the opposite way in reaction to that. It's going to take a while for games, and movies and tv, to allow for better perspectives on women. I think the indy scene is where we will find this happening before we ever see it in the major studios, since the latter has to worry about limiting risk and making investors happy. But hopefully the recent flops will be a shot across the bow and wake them up.
Except for that, this was a good video. She lays out her arguments well. I don't agree with every point, but I understand where she's coming from and can respect her point of view.
"NOTHING IS MORE BADASS THAN TREATING A WOMAN WITH RESPECT!"
-Mr. Torgue Flexington. Borderlands 2
I 100% agree here.
That said, I don't think this video has much to do with patient gaming. My understanding is that most are patient not because modern games aren't worth playing, but because they're not worth playing at launch.
So while the video has merit on its own as a critique of the weird AAA over-correction, it's not particularly relevant to patient gaming.
Thanks for the reasonable take. I almost lost hope for a second.
I don't need to fix her.
No.. No you don't. People like her need to be ignored
Older games are better than a lot of modern AAA slop, but not for the reasons she describes.
I was hoping she would talk about game design, or writing, mechanics, player agency, gameplay before graphics or literally anything else but she spent nearly 15 minutes only talking about tired culture wars talking points like, "why don't women look feminine aymore," "why are characters designed for diversity/inclusion first before story," "Concord sucks lol."
Yeah AAA writing is shit, please change the record so all the sweaty neckbeard virgins complaining about Aloy's facial hair can crawl back in their caves. So sick of hearing about it.
She shouts out Asmongold in her comments. Disgraceful.
Agreed with your reasons, but she made points I have never heard about that I found interesting, like disappearing of some femininity aspects to awkwardly try to avoid sexism accusations. I wanted to share a point of view that I think is rarely shared in gaming communities.
I don't follow YouTube drama much, so I don't know who Asmongold is.
The reason I ended up there is because I recently started playing Oblivion, and saw her videos mentioned.
These are very common talking points of gamer gate bigots. It's a giant red flag, because the people who talk about it are bigots
Pretty prejudiced take. Like in the literal sense of the word.
She shouts out a racist who was banned from twitch for bigotry, so I'd say it's pretty spot on as a red flag.
I think you may have a a specific experience that makes this very common for you. I personally don't interact with those subjects much, so I didn't know. Thank you for sharing your view.
Gamergate is not a very specific circumstance. It was a widespread harassment campaign involving the entire industry. This is a follow on from that movement, and any game that releases a female protagonist that isn't soft and demure gets active push back from this group.
Can you describe some of those aspects that have been disappearing?
Reminds me that time gamer discovered girls have body hair because of Aloy.
She as a woman of course also has no idea what femininity is and that women have body hair.
I didn’t watch the video and probably never will, simply because I’ve watched too many and I hate that topic so much I spend the time I used to watch YouTube now on playing games.
I have played a particular western made game for the first time and finished it about a week ago. Without spoilering the massive thing that happens, I try to be as generic as possible: I have not played a single western made game in the last 5 years where the hero physically saves a girl, only to be saved by her emotionally.
I think that was too vague. Also, I'm not real clear if that's good or bad.
If I would be any less vague, it would be like "when Luke found out he kissed his sister shortly before facing his father for the final time"
I'm trying to think of any game I played that was like that. You have some examples (western or not, old or not) on your mind?
Kingdom Hearts would be one, FF9 another one, I think you could count NieR automata as well
I think it's better to check the source by yourself since it appears to be more sensitive than I expected.
Idk, it's sounds like you agreed with this point and I'm curious what your opinion was about it.
As I said, most of the points made in the video I didn't think about before, and I find it interesting to know other reasons why people play old games or are patient gamers, that's why I shared it here. I think the person is simply expressing her taste, maybe it's traditional stereotypes for some people, but you can't decide of your tastes, I didn't find it hateful. Now people who defend trans people found this video offensive, which I was miles away from expecting, and many people decided to jump on this wagon and decided this is a hateful post based on prior comments without watching the video. Also as I said other places, I am not knowledgeable in trans defense, so maybe it's possible they are correct.
You're the only person to mention trans people in this thread. It's got nothing to do with trans folk...
I had to watch the video to see her dog whistle.
And the whole thing about red flag/dog whistle comments is that they're designed to seem like nothing to people who don't recognise them. You not recognising a dog whistle doesn't mean it isn't one...
The fact that she shouts out another steamer that was banned from twitch for bigotry isn't a co-incidence. It's a red flag for a reason
Still waiting for the lost feminity you mentioned about.
I rarely click on YouTube links. For some reason I gave this one a try. Turns out she's bigoted.
That'll teach me for clicking
At one point I was looking for some help with implementing something akin to UE's Metahumans but in Godot.
Somehow I stumbled across this one, single person on youtube who had a half decent implementation of what I was looking for...
... and after watching some other videos on her channel... yep, she's an open NeoNazi.
That was enough internet for me, that day.
In the interest of not giving a potential neo nazi any more views, what made you think this? Apart from if she said "I'm a neo nazi."
Well it was pretty much just openly saying it.
Her YT channel was a mix of fairly long, sort of livestream clips of development progress and notes... and then just clips of her livestreams where she wasn't really developing and was just responding to chats, going off about political topics, 'white genocide' this, 'every democrat is a f@g communist' that, a whole bunch of other dogwhistles or overt references to memes and slogans of various extremist right wing militia type groups...
Also, for clarity, I am not talking about OP's link, I'm talking about some very obscure other person I found months ago. Much , much lower view/su count, not even monetized. Also unlike OP's link, this person actually wrote code instead of just having opinions about things.
There is a difference between being on the conservative side of a culture war and being balls deep into extremist right wing ideology.
Oh I completely misunderstood your comment.
How about you just watch and make the call yourself? Nothing about the video made me think she's a neo nazi nor did I think she's a bigot. People are allowed to want and like different things. Just because they have different wants doesn't mean they should just get random negative label on them and then be hated without actually even seeing what they say.
Well, I literally began my comment with an answer to your first question.
Well, I pointed out the reason why your beginning comment is problematic. And as sp3tr4l pointed out, OP's link isn't even the one being referred to as the neo nazi.
They’re talking about the other commenter.
Yeah, just, I'm not talking about OP's link, I'm talking about someone else.
Ok, I was not considering this point of view at all when I shared this. I was thinking that's a different point of view on patient gaming that I didn't have.
I don't know if it could be classed as patient gaming. As I understand it, patient gamers will eventually get around to current games, just not now. It doesn't sound like she ever wants to play what's been released now due to her skewed views
I see what you mean but I think there's quite an intersection with patient gamers reasons.
YouTube is like the rest of the internet, some good, some bad.
YouTube, like other corporate social media and engagement platforms, thrives on anger and conflict, and pushes shitty takes higher up the recs list to get angry engagement.
So it's more likely to be bad than good.
What have y'all been clicking on YT? I watch, frankly, an unhealthy amount of YT and I don't get recommendations for hateful shit.
I barely use youtube. I actively avoid it as much as possible
2things.
Funny that people are trying to evangelise time wasting brainrot
Also you must have so much useful time without the time wasting brainrot.
goes back to watching people process clay for some insane reason
That depends on what you watch and subscribe. Watch angry, conflict-driven videos, and you'll get those.
I personally don't get any of that shit in my feed.
As I've said three times now, I barely use YouTube and then only direct links. This isn't that. YouTube rewards civil bigots so civil bigots are common and have big audiences
Which is why my general rule of thumb is to avoid the top channels. Some things I especially try to avoid:
Those are things that drive "engagement," and going after engagement for engagement's sake is a clear sign to me that the channel isn't worth my time. If the channel largely avoids that crap and still manages to have a respectable subscriber count, it's a lot more likely to be a decent channel. Some channels I really like:
Each of those have high quality content, tend to avoid most of the above (still have BS thumbnails, but not nearly as bad as the big channels), and have a sizeable following. Good content absolutely exists, you just have to scrape away the crap on top to find decent channels.
That said, I no longer use my YT account, I just subbed to everything I care about on Grayjay and Newpipe (in case one fails, and NewPipe has failed more often than not for me), and I'll watch specific channels whenever I actually use YT's website.
Absolutely. Sticking to the things they know and avoiding the recs is how a lot of people use Youtube. But all of the things you avoid are thrown in your face in the recs. Clickbait titles, bait and switch content, dogwhistling videos that start people down the path of ever more bigoted content (for example, the video the OP posted).
I generally don't engage much with video content though, so I'll just continue to ignore it
Hence why I tend to avoid the YT website. I have disabled recommendations on NewPipe and Grayjay, and that's where 95% of my YT viewing comes from.
one of her reasons is "erasure of femininity in gaming" with a screen bemoaning "masculine features" of modern female characters, and her pinned comment says "you know things are bad when oblivion npcs are prettier than some of these new game characters" and also thanks asmongold for sending viewers her way.
so uh, how about no for this hateful garbage.
What here is hateful and if it is where is the hate aimed at?
I was surprised when she brought up Mortal Kombat as an example of over sexualized characters, and not, say, the entire Dead or Alive series. Especially Dead or Alive Xtreme Beach Volleyball. She does make some good points in her video, and I don't want to dismiss her point of view, but I feel she took the easy way out in addressing this point.
Games, and movies and tv, have treated women as sexual objects for a long time, and now the pendulum has swung the opposite way in reaction to that. It's going to take a while for games, and movies and tv, to allow for better perspectives on women. I think the indy scene is where we will find this happening before we ever see it in the major studios, since the latter has to worry about limiting risk and making investors happy. But hopefully the recent flops will be a shot across the bow and wake them up.
Except for that, this was a good video. She lays out her arguments well. I don't agree with every point, but I understand where she's coming from and can respect her point of view.
"NOTHING IS MORE BADASS THAN TREATING A WOMAN WITH RESPECT!"
-Mr. Torgue Flexington. Borderlands 2
I 100% agree here.
That said, I don't think this video has much to do with patient gaming. My understanding is that most are patient not because modern games aren't worth playing, but because they're not worth playing at launch.
So while the video has merit on its own as a critique of the weird AAA over-correction, it's not particularly relevant to patient gaming.
Thanks for the reasonable take. I almost lost hope for a second.
I don't need to fix her.
No.. No you don't. People like her need to be ignored
Based