How can Israel keep its promise that displaced Gazans will be allowed to return home, when those Gazans won't have a home to return to?
They never intended to keep that promise.
"At least the foundation is there!" - Bibi probably
"No home no claim on land!" - Bibi the Genocider, most likely.
Unironically someone from media should ask him what's up
They can return to the same spot, we promise!
It's probably a conditional promise.
You know "Gazans can get back home as long as they're 3 feet under"
Maybe this time the concrete aid can actually be used to rebuild houses instead of terror tunnels.
Are you really saying fuck these innocent people because other not innocent people are shitty?
I'm saying they have a chance to rebuild now that the shitty people robbing them of resources are being eliminated.
There's no evidence to suggest this type of assault will ever end an insurgency, 20 years of occupation by the United States proves this to be true and further still the prior occupation of the same territory 20 years before that by the Soviet Union which had the same result.
You don't end insurgencies like this, you increase the likelihood of creating freedom fighters/terrorists/revolutionaries. Israel knows this, they're not in Gaza to remove Hamas they're instead going to remove all Palestinians in the area and seize the land ostensibly to for security but realistically to complete the alleged talmudic borders. First they'll establish Genesis 17 borders, then davidic borders.
So fur Palestinians will keep getting fucked by Hamas and won't have the ability to rebuild due to concrete being stolen and used for terror tunnels instead?
Note that I made no mentions of borders occupations or anything in the regard. You injected that into the conversation.
A. There's no evidence of that claim, Israel won't even provide any whole claiming it's true.
B. There won't be any rebuilding. Israel will take the area as a security measure and establish borders as close as they can possibly come to genesis 17.
Indeed I did, it's relevant.
A. There's no evidence of that claim, Israel won't even provide any whole claiming it's true.
No evidence, just miles of tunnels built under Gaza instead of used to rebuild actual housing. Also, just because you choose to ignore evidence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
B. There won't be any rebuilding. Israel will take the area as a security measure and establish borders as close as they can possibly come to genesis 17.
It's great you're inventing stuff that has 0 legitimate basis.
No, that proves there are some tunnels, sure. Where is your evidence of stolen aid.
Aside from the fact that it's the main goal of Lehi and irgun and Saturdays has been, talk about ignoring evidence. You're not at all bothered by a country who's main leadership come from avowed terrorist organizations?
You're not at all bothered by a country who's main leadership come from avowed terrorist organizations?
Yes, I am bothered by Hamas and think they should be eliminated.
I meant Israel homie, the first Israeli prime Minister and nearly every military leader are members of either Lehi, haganah, ertzl or irgun all of which are terrorist organizations all of which were officially absorbed into the idf with rewards, awards and commendations for terror attacks.
Same applies to the US. Are you going to call Biden a terrorist too?
those cowards, hiding inside, uh...the entirety of their own country
And they had no way out. I was talking to some complete fool the other day who said that Gazans should just flee on rafts like African migrants do. As if Israel wouldn't blow them out of the fucking water with their navy.
Also, Egypt is not getting enough blame for not letting Gazans out through their border. They need to. That makes them a partner in this genocide even if they're not an active partner.
Yeah, although read the 'After 2007' part. Egypt hasn't exactly been helping Palestinians cross the border. The sad fact is that Palestinians are treated like shit in the rest of the Arab world and Israel is a good cover for that because they're far, far worse. But it's not like Jordan has ever let them live with the rest of Jordanian society or offer them citizenship despite Palestinians living in Jordan for decades. And the claim from Jordan and Egypt is "we can't offer them citizenship because then Israel will not let them return to their homeland," which is, frankly a bullshit excuse because it doesn't let Palestinians decide for themselves what they want.
I am not trying in any way to lessen Israel's part in this. They are the ones committing genocide. There is no question about that. But Israel's neighbors don't actually care, which is why they're not doing anything about it.
ah that's my bad, I didnt realize it had changed
That link suggests differently:
Following Israel's unilateral disengagement from the Gaza-strip in 2005, the Philadelphi Accord with Egypt was concluded, which authorized Egypt to deploy 750 border guards along the route to patrol the border on Egypt's side. The Palestinian side of the border was controlled by the Palestinian Authority, until the 2007 takeover by Hamas.[3] The joint authority for the Rafah Border Crossing was transferred to the Palestinian Authority and Egypt for restricted passage by Palestinian ID card holders, and by others by exception.
The Palestinian side of the border was controlled by the Palestinian Authority, until the 2007 takeover by Hamas.
Wow, I wonder why Egypt, a country that suffered from the evils of the Muslim Brotherhood severely, would be unaccepting of a border controlled by an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood? Must be the Jews fault.
I get it though. Israel has in the past expelled Palestinians and not allowed them to return leaving them stateless wherever they took shelter. Egypt doesn't want a million people to suddenly become their problem permanently.
They already are their problem permanently.: "Estimates of the size of the Palestinian population in Egypt range from 50,245 to 110,000." The 'not allowed to return' thing is a bullshit excuse to deny them citizenship because it doesn't give them the opportunity if they want it, keeping them as a second class, and Egypt knows it. What about the Palestinians that don't want to return? The ones who want to live in Egypt? Egypt says fuck them.
Eh, accepting 2 millions refugees is an enormous feat. No western countries would be willing to accept 2 millions refugees at once, so we realistically can't expect Egypt, with significantly worse economy than western countries, could accept 2 million refugees without massive assistance from other countries.
Also, Egypt is not getting enough blame for not letting Gazans out through their border.
Oh how short memories we have. The Muslim Brotherhood did some absolute fucked up shit in Egypt. There's a reason them and their offshoots (like Hamas) are banned there.
Gazans are not all Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. So maybe Egypt should treat them like they're all criminals?
Do you remember the shit the Brotherhood did in Egypt?
Again- Gazans are not all Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. So maybe Egypt should treat them like they’re all criminals?
Do you remember 9/11? Should all Muslims in the U.S. be treated live second-class in perpetuity because if it?
So maybe Egypt should treat them like they’re all criminals?
You don't remember what happened do you? Can you name one atrocity that the brotherhood did in Egypt?
Irrelevant. Are all Palestinians in the Muslim Brotherhood? Unless they all are, it doesn't matter what the Muslim Brotherhood did.
It seems like you're doing a racist "you can't trust a Palestinian" thing to me.
How is it irrelevant? It directly caused Egypt's current policies.
You keep refusing to answer my question. You are not here in good faith.
I'm arguing in good faith. You're ignoring the atrocities committed in recent memory. People in Egypt lost family to the Brotherhood's actions and they're unwilling to forget that.
You still haven't answered my question. So no, you're not. If you were, you would have answered it the first time I asked it.
I don't agree with the Egypt part. It's a sovereign country and has the right to refuse to give up an entire peninsula of their land.
Israel is betting on them to open the doors so they can just take Gazan land like they want to. It's even pressuring Europe for weeks now to pressure Egypt. So there is a plan there and it won't be in favour of Gazans.
It's also a country that has its own shit going on. As soon as they open the border, the world will look away as if they've solved something and the Gazans will never have the right to return to their country because there will be no more Gaza.
No one is asking Egypt to give up land and there are already thousands of Palestinians in Egypt who have been there for decades and Egypt (and Jordan) continue to make the 'we can't give them citizenship because then they'll be unable to return' bullshit in order to keep them second-class and make them work the most menial jobs. Palestinians are treated like shit in those countries. Stop excusing their behavior as some sort of humane response.
Maybe. But I'm a second generation living in Europe and my third and fourth generation cousins are still treated like a 'foreigner' so that's where my stance comes from.
But you make a good point. No one should be treated like shit.
Egypt knows any Palestinian refugee that leaves Palestine will never be allowed to return home. Letting Gazans into Sinai would be to permanently accepting them, and also likely result in Israel invading Egypt to create a “safe zone”, possibly dragging Egypt into the war. The Gazans would be politically destabilizing, due to the strain that admitted potentially over a million refugees with nothing would cause on the already struggling domestic economy.
What if the Palestinian refugee doesn't want to return home? Why isn't that up to them? Because Egypt doesn't want them. They would be fine if they all left right now.
Well the Palestinians aren’t being given a choice regardless, so your hypothetical is a bit moot.
How is them not being allowed citizenship if they want it moot? Egypt and Jordan could offer it to them any time they wanted. But they're using this as an excuse to keep them as second-class and keep them working the shit jobs no one else in those countries want to do. All because "they might get to return someday." It's a bullshit excuse to treat them like shit.
If you look into Gaza strip in Google Maps, you can see it looked just like any other town in the rest of the world: plenty of recreational places, parks, restaurants, markets, all bustling with activities. Now it's all rubbles.
More space for settlers I guess
This is the ultimate goal. The reason so many gazans didn't evacuate is because last time the Israelis just straight up took their land. Once they leave it's up to the Israelis to let them back on their own land.
So israel has destroyed half of hamas' bases? good for them /s
At least they've neutralized all those 5 year old leaders and infant sympathizers.
Can we not make senseless fun of anything we disapprove of? Some of us would prefer constructive criticism and discussion
And terrorist premature babies.
It is actually quite disheartening to read for all this in the news and know that after all this Israel won't be held accountable for all the destruction and lost lives.
And I am thinking about the hospital personnel who decided to stay and continue helping the sick and vulnerable. They are the real heroes here. And I also know that if I was at their place I would come out of this as a completely broken human being, traumatised for life. And it makes me so sad for those people. Probably they also lost their homes and have nowhere to go.
What is Israel going to leave after themselves is an complete wasteland, utter desperation, broken lives, lifelong trauma for a big chunk of the population and even more hatred.
Can you imagine if BB committed familicide? Hahaha oh wait he's already playing the game of the last man standing, someone should tell him, let him know and remember then what we know now, that war and displacement drive really can become its own addiction
I mean, yes, because Hamas bases is down below the building, so they just flattening Gaza with civilian to bury the terrorist.
What about the hostages, you asked? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Calling it the "Israel-Hamas" conflict feels intellectually dishonest.
It's a genocide. The Palestinian genocide at the hands of the Israeli Defense Force.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Nearly half of the homes in Gaza have been destroyed or damaged by the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas, the United Nations reported.
According to a recently released report from the U.N. surveying a preliminary aerial assessment of structural damage in Gaza, 45 percent of the homes in Gaza have been destroyed or damaged.
Airstrikes have hit Gaza repeatedly over the course of several weeks, after the Palestinian militant group Hamas entered Israel in a surprise attack on Oct. 7.
Israeli forces have said approximately 1,200 people were killed in the initial attack.
“Significant damage has been inflicted upon critical infrastructure and essential services, affecting people’s ability to maintain their dignity and basic living standards,” the U.N. wrote.
The report said there are 1.5 million internally displaced residents, which makes up 65 percent of Gaza’s population.
The original article contains 261 words, the summary contains 137 words. Saved 48%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
How can Israel keep its promise that displaced Gazans will be allowed to return home, when those Gazans won't have a home to return to?
They never intended to keep that promise.
"At least the foundation is there!" - Bibi probably
"No home no claim on land!" - Bibi the Genocider, most likely.
Unironically someone from media should ask him what's up
They can return to the same spot, we promise!
It's probably a conditional promise.
You know "Gazans can get back home as long as they're 3 feet under"
Maybe this time the concrete aid can actually be used to rebuild houses instead of terror tunnels.
Are you really saying fuck these innocent people because other not innocent people are shitty?
I'm saying they have a chance to rebuild now that the shitty people robbing them of resources are being eliminated.
There's no evidence to suggest this type of assault will ever end an insurgency, 20 years of occupation by the United States proves this to be true and further still the prior occupation of the same territory 20 years before that by the Soviet Union which had the same result.
You don't end insurgencies like this, you increase the likelihood of creating freedom fighters/terrorists/revolutionaries. Israel knows this, they're not in Gaza to remove Hamas they're instead going to remove all Palestinians in the area and seize the land ostensibly to for security but realistically to complete the alleged talmudic borders. First they'll establish Genesis 17 borders, then davidic borders.
So fur Palestinians will keep getting fucked by Hamas and won't have the ability to rebuild due to concrete being stolen and used for terror tunnels instead?
Note that I made no mentions of borders occupations or anything in the regard. You injected that into the conversation.
A. There's no evidence of that claim, Israel won't even provide any whole claiming it's true.
B. There won't be any rebuilding. Israel will take the area as a security measure and establish borders as close as they can possibly come to genesis 17.
Indeed I did, it's relevant.
No evidence, just miles of tunnels built under Gaza instead of used to rebuild actual housing. Also, just because you choose to ignore evidence, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
It's great you're inventing stuff that has 0 legitimate basis.
No, that proves there are some tunnels, sure. Where is your evidence of stolen aid.
Aside from the fact that it's the main goal of Lehi and irgun and Saturdays has been, talk about ignoring evidence. You're not at all bothered by a country who's main leadership come from avowed terrorist organizations?
Yes, I am bothered by Hamas and think they should be eliminated.
I meant Israel homie, the first Israeli prime Minister and nearly every military leader are members of either Lehi, haganah, ertzl or irgun all of which are terrorist organizations all of which were officially absorbed into the idf with rewards, awards and commendations for terror attacks.
Same applies to the US. Are you going to call Biden a terrorist too?
those cowards, hiding inside, uh...the entirety of their own country
And they had no way out. I was talking to some complete fool the other day who said that Gazans should just flee on rafts like African migrants do. As if Israel wouldn't blow them out of the fucking water with their navy.
Also, Egypt is not getting enough blame for not letting Gazans out through their border. They need to. That makes them a partner in this genocide even if they're not an active partner.
I learned about this BS for the first time wondering that same thing, somehow Israel also controls the Gaza/Egypt border https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphi\_Route
Yeah, although read the 'After 2007' part. Egypt hasn't exactly been helping Palestinians cross the border. The sad fact is that Palestinians are treated like shit in the rest of the Arab world and Israel is a good cover for that because they're far, far worse. But it's not like Jordan has ever let them live with the rest of Jordanian society or offer them citizenship despite Palestinians living in Jordan for decades. And the claim from Jordan and Egypt is "we can't offer them citizenship because then Israel will not let them return to their homeland," which is, frankly a bullshit excuse because it doesn't let Palestinians decide for themselves what they want.
I am not trying in any way to lessen Israel's part in this. They are the ones committing genocide. There is no question about that. But Israel's neighbors don't actually care, which is why they're not doing anything about it.
ah that's my bad, I didnt realize it had changed
That link suggests differently:
Wow, I wonder why Egypt, a country that suffered from the evils of the Muslim Brotherhood severely, would be unaccepting of a border controlled by an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood? Must be the Jews fault.
I get it though. Israel has in the past expelled Palestinians and not allowed them to return leaving them stateless wherever they took shelter. Egypt doesn't want a million people to suddenly become their problem permanently.
They already are their problem permanently.: "Estimates of the size of the Palestinian population in Egypt range from 50,245 to 110,000." The 'not allowed to return' thing is a bullshit excuse to deny them citizenship because it doesn't give them the opportunity if they want it, keeping them as a second class, and Egypt knows it. What about the Palestinians that don't want to return? The ones who want to live in Egypt? Egypt says fuck them.
Eh, accepting 2 millions refugees is an enormous feat. No western countries would be willing to accept 2 millions refugees at once, so we realistically can't expect Egypt, with significantly worse economy than western countries, could accept 2 million refugees without massive assistance from other countries.
Oh how short memories we have. The Muslim Brotherhood did some absolute fucked up shit in Egypt. There's a reason them and their offshoots (like Hamas) are banned there.
Gazans are not all Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. So maybe Egypt should treat them like they're all criminals?
Do you remember the shit the Brotherhood did in Egypt?
Again- Gazans are not all Hamas or the Muslim Brotherhood. So maybe Egypt should treat them like they’re all criminals?
Do you remember 9/11? Should all Muslims in the U.S. be treated live second-class in perpetuity because if it?
You don't remember what happened do you? Can you name one atrocity that the brotherhood did in Egypt?
Irrelevant. Are all Palestinians in the Muslim Brotherhood? Unless they all are, it doesn't matter what the Muslim Brotherhood did.
It seems like you're doing a racist "you can't trust a Palestinian" thing to me.
How is it irrelevant? It directly caused Egypt's current policies.
You keep refusing to answer my question. You are not here in good faith.
I'm arguing in good faith. You're ignoring the atrocities committed in recent memory. People in Egypt lost family to the Brotherhood's actions and they're unwilling to forget that.
You still haven't answered my question. So no, you're not. If you were, you would have answered it the first time I asked it.
I don't agree with the Egypt part. It's a sovereign country and has the right to refuse to give up an entire peninsula of their land.
Israel is betting on them to open the doors so they can just take Gazan land like they want to. It's even pressuring Europe for weeks now to pressure Egypt. So there is a plan there and it won't be in favour of Gazans.
It's also a country that has its own shit going on. As soon as they open the border, the world will look away as if they've solved something and the Gazans will never have the right to return to their country because there will be no more Gaza.
No one is asking Egypt to give up land and there are already thousands of Palestinians in Egypt who have been there for decades and Egypt (and Jordan) continue to make the 'we can't give them citizenship because then they'll be unable to return' bullshit in order to keep them second-class and make them work the most menial jobs. Palestinians are treated like shit in those countries. Stop excusing their behavior as some sort of humane response.
Maybe. But I'm a second generation living in Europe and my third and fourth generation cousins are still treated like a 'foreigner' so that's where my stance comes from.
But you make a good point. No one should be treated like shit.
Egypt knows any Palestinian refugee that leaves Palestine will never be allowed to return home. Letting Gazans into Sinai would be to permanently accepting them, and also likely result in Israel invading Egypt to create a “safe zone”, possibly dragging Egypt into the war. The Gazans would be politically destabilizing, due to the strain that admitted potentially over a million refugees with nothing would cause on the already struggling domestic economy.
What if the Palestinian refugee doesn't want to return home? Why isn't that up to them? Because Egypt doesn't want them. They would be fine if they all left right now.
Well the Palestinians aren’t being given a choice regardless, so your hypothetical is a bit moot.
How is them not being allowed citizenship if they want it moot? Egypt and Jordan could offer it to them any time they wanted. But they're using this as an excuse to keep them as second-class and keep them working the shit jobs no one else in those countries want to do. All because "they might get to return someday." It's a bullshit excuse to treat them like shit.
If you look into Gaza strip in Google Maps, you can see it looked just like any other town in the rest of the world: plenty of recreational places, parks, restaurants, markets, all bustling with activities. Now it's all rubbles.
More space for settlers I guess
This is the ultimate goal. The reason so many gazans didn't evacuate is because last time the Israelis just straight up took their land. Once they leave it's up to the Israelis to let them back on their own land.
Israel is pretty good at genocide.
So israel has destroyed half of hamas' bases? good for them /s
At least they've neutralized all those 5 year old leaders and infant sympathizers.
Can we not make senseless fun of anything we disapprove of? Some of us would prefer constructive criticism and discussion
And terrorist premature babies.
It is actually quite disheartening to read for all this in the news and know that after all this Israel won't be held accountable for all the destruction and lost lives.
And I am thinking about the hospital personnel who decided to stay and continue helping the sick and vulnerable. They are the real heroes here. And I also know that if I was at their place I would come out of this as a completely broken human being, traumatised for life. And it makes me so sad for those people. Probably they also lost their homes and have nowhere to go.
What is Israel going to leave after themselves is an complete wasteland, utter desperation, broken lives, lifelong trauma for a big chunk of the population and even more hatred.
Can you imagine if BB committed familicide? Hahaha oh wait he's already playing the game of the last man standing, someone should tell him, let him know and remember then what we know now, that war and displacement drive really can become its own addiction
I mean, yes, because Hamas bases is down below the building, so they just flattening Gaza with civilian to bury the terrorist.
What about the hostages, you asked? ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Calling it the "Israel-Hamas" conflict feels intellectually dishonest.
It's a genocide. The Palestinian genocide at the hands of the Israeli Defense Force.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Nearly half of the homes in Gaza have been destroyed or damaged by the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas, the United Nations reported.
According to a recently released report from the U.N. surveying a preliminary aerial assessment of structural damage in Gaza, 45 percent of the homes in Gaza have been destroyed or damaged.
Airstrikes have hit Gaza repeatedly over the course of several weeks, after the Palestinian militant group Hamas entered Israel in a surprise attack on Oct. 7.
Israeli forces have said approximately 1,200 people were killed in the initial attack.
“Significant damage has been inflicted upon critical infrastructure and essential services, affecting people’s ability to maintain their dignity and basic living standards,” the U.N. wrote.
The report said there are 1.5 million internally displaced residents, which makes up 65 percent of Gaza’s population.
The original article contains 261 words, the summary contains 137 words. Saved 48%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!