I can see how people raised in stable loving families think 'why shouldnt the parents know?' But I was raised by a raging narcissist, if dad slept bad a head-punch during breakfast was not uncommon. First memory I have is being hurt by my dad...
If I were trans this would have sealed my fate; killed via 'exorcism'
If the kid doesnt want their parents to know about their gender identity well that isnt a bad kid, those are bad parents. Yes really.
Believe you me, the good parents dont need the school to tell them, they already know because a child that feels safe will just tell you. If you really love them you will already know anyways just from paying attention to them.
I know people with mental diagnosis who support this shit. Try explaining to them that they are one the list of undesirables too, or dont if you value your time and sanity.
Exactly. If the parents don't already know, there's a reason.
It's a pro child abuse tactic by right wing child abuse fans.
LoL, the left is always projecting their crimes onto others.
BTW, the government doesn't co-parent our children.
LoL, the left is always projecting their crimes onto others.
Feel free to show some proof that 'not letting parents know their kids want to transition' is A) a crime, and B) a negative thing.
I have a trans child, and they were terrified to tell me, but not because of anything I did. They ended up coming out to me multiple times because I didn't react the way they were told to expect.
They have plenty of trans friends whose lives would be much worse if their parents knew. I don't think any school has the right to reveal that kind of information before a kid is ready.
Stay strong, all we have to do to win is refuse to give up or give in
Exactly. I was disowned when I came out at 20. Telling my mom would’ve been bad because it would’ve denied me an important moment in our lives, and an opportunity for her to support me on our terms. Telling my then father would’ve just made him stop talking to me as a teenager.
Other kids face physical violence. It’s not uncommon for a trans person to be murdered by a parent.
This idea that parents have a right to know everything about their child will get kids killed. But kids aren’t people like parents are to many people
Im sorry you had to deal with that. I flipped the script on them, support this crap and they are gone, dissowned, refered to as 'the biggot formerly know as ', I'll talk about them as though they are sub-human, see how they like it.
Some relatives arent invited to my wedding because although I dont like my sil's spouse on a personal level, they are trans, they are invited and they will be protected. I would rather spend time with someone decent who I dont get along with than someone biggoted who I used to get along with.
I hope you are in a good place in life now, stay strong. It will take time but conservatives always lose to the inevitable march of progress. They've been losing, and that is why they are so mad
That’s exactly it. You’re not going to like everyone of an oppressed group, but you can dislike every bigot.
And yeah, these days I’m happily married and surrounded by my people. My problems are shit like stress and work and a landlord who ignores problems too long. Utterly boring, exactly the kinds of problems my younger self dreamed of.
I hope you’re doing better too.
"It's not uncommon for a trans person to be murdered by a parent..." could you share news stories about this? It would be helpful to have facts, but I've not seen any myself.
I tried to explain this shit to my own dad when telling him that I would rather the schools keep that kind of info to himself and he just kept pushing that I would change my mind when my daughter was born. Somehow, it was inconceivable to him that informing parents of this kind of thing puts children at risk of emotional and physical harm.
Guess what: I still believe the same now that my daughter is born because I know there are shit parents out there who would torture their children for not conforming. I'm going to do everything I can to instill the kind of trust my daughter needs to tell me if she's part of the LGBT community. And if she doesn't feel comfortable? Then I've failed.
You know, I had my doubts about my parents ability as parents, but they always repeated I'd understand after I had my own. And they were right. After I had my kid I realized what a shit job they did parenting. They mostly meant well, but clearly not enough to read a book about it.
Good chance they'll be kicked out of their home or worse. There's an epidemic of lgbt youth homelessness nationwide, and it's even worse in Utah for obvious reasons. Schools should not be carte blanche informing parents without permission from the student, it's a safety issue. Reading their full guidance for teachers in another comment above it's making some very reasonable suggestions to help ensure student safety.
I am not spreading misinformation and did not imply that Utah had the worst youth homeless rate in general among all states, we're talking specifically about lgbt youth homelessness, and the greatly increased dangers of being kicked out of your home and many other types of abuse that LGBT youth face. This is a major problem across the entire country, including Utah. So I think in any state there should be a lot of thought put into whether schools should just start disclosing information like gender or sexual identities to students families, without assessing if that might be putting the student into danger.
Unfortunately Utah refuses to formally gather information on things like gender identity and sexual orientation in its youth homeless population, data that is gathered in many other states, so Utah has deliberately made a direct comparison between states not possible on this issue. You would also need to factor in that many homeless individuals relocate to areas with increased services to help. You would also need to consider if youth feel safe even disclosing this information to a state agency run by a very conservative lgbt hostile state government. If Utah wants to prove it's better on this issue and that the anecdotal evidence and evidence gathered directly at homeless shelters is wrong, than they can start gathering the data themselves, they've had plenty of chances to do so. I'm gonna assume the worst when they refuse to look. Go to any of the lgbt youth homeless centers in Salt Lake City before belittling this problem, and spreading awareness about it is not misinformation.
I know several LGBT youth because my oldest has been in that world for years. The religious families I know are not the ones who put their child at most risk, oddly. They aren't always happy about it, but none of them have threatened or hurt their children. Of the ones I know, three are in real danger. Two of those families aren't religious and one is not active in their faith.
I just think we should be careful about slinging around accusations that aren't grounded in facts. It leads more children to suicidal behavior because they assume from what people say that their parents' faith means they won't be accepted.
Going to the homeless shelters preselects for kids that have issues with their families. That doesn't say anything about the rates or the likelihood of any given family being a danger.
When I was a kid, teachers only called your parents if you were failing. Some of the teachers didn't even do that.
The advice on the subject of informing parents reads:
Telling parents
Note that the ACLU is very protective of a student's right to privacy in his/her sexuality. If a school employee believes that "a situation exists which presents a serious threat to the well-being of a student," the employee must notify parents without delay. (Utah Code 53A- 13-302(6)(b)(i)). Other than a threatening situation, volunteering known information about a student's sexuality with parents is not advised.
Consider the following factors in making a determination about talking to parents:
Age of students
Whether student is being bullied based on sexuality or gender identity
Student requests
Knowledge of parents' relationship with students
What if a student asks to be called a preferred name/pronoun and parents object? Unless the student is 18, parents' requests should govern.
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
That documents allignment is lawfull evil
It's not only happening, it's supported by the tyrannical left.
People say this isn't happening to the idea that everything outside is going to force a child to transition. Not telling families about noticing a child is some part of the LBTGQ+ community has gone on for some time now because those kids were being made homeless, physically abused, and murdered by their families when they found out.
So, if for some god forsaken reason, you have kids, I hope the same happens.
The phrase "tyrannical left" outs you as a nazi fyi
Shhh, we need Nazis to out themselves.
Yes. Children should only be allowed to exist so far as a parent lets them. There is no point where they can be allowed freedom to explore and find what makes them happy. The parents ideals for them are always correct and should never be questioned. Any deviation from the parents wishes is always wrong and the only way to preserve society is by strictly enforcing the things students are allowed to talk about.
And you call the people that oppose this line of thinking tyrannical?
Ok, it is happening, but it's a good thing
evry tym.
Gender is a thought crime. Teachers need to report any student not conforming. Children expressing themselves needs to be stopped so we defeat the tyrants.
What are you even talking about?
I thought op's comment was satire...
Nope. Look at their comment history.
Removed by mod
Lots of those. Checks out.
"This isn't happening"
I provide sources that show it is.
Removed by mod
evry tym.
Lemmy sure is a dichotomy of opposite types of people.
I managed to check some of your sources before they went and a lot of them are lingering parental reporting of social contagion theory which has been a disproven method of scientific data collection for outcomes of patients... or based out of the UK where the Gender clinic situation has been decried as a mess by trans people because there are far too few clinics to service the needs of the trans population at large so issues of misconduct are being caused to sheer volume issues - something trans people in the UK are fighting tooth and nail to rectify. These articles while holding sources are linking to other articles that have purposefully ommited contexts or discredited scientific studies at their core and its worth actually drilling down.
For a starter insider look at what it's like to be in the UK system as an adult along with the structural issues and trans issues as unique to the UK I recommend
https://youtu.be/v1eWIshUzr8?si=55znLlcRupaE3SuJ
The sources off that video are genuinely good and the presenter is very engaging and funny. It's a long video but I think worth a watch.
You like abusing kids
The funny thing is, your stupidity is so bad you don't even know what you are raging against. If you weren't such a fucking moron, you would have read the ACTUAL policy instead of basing your opinion on the National Review's selective excerpts from the policy. The ACTUAL policy says that if the students ask to be called anything other than their birth pronouns that the parents should be informed AND that the parents' choice is honored. It is only discouraged to tell the parents if there is no danger seen AND no change to pronouns.
I can see how people raised in stable loving families think 'why shouldnt the parents know?' But I was raised by a raging narcissist, if dad slept bad a head-punch during breakfast was not uncommon. First memory I have is being hurt by my dad...
If I were trans this would have sealed my fate; killed via 'exorcism'
If the kid doesnt want their parents to know about their gender identity well that isnt a bad kid, those are bad parents. Yes really.
Believe you me, the good parents dont need the school to tell them, they already know because a child that feels safe will just tell you. If you really love them you will already know anyways just from paying attention to them.
I know people with mental diagnosis who support this shit. Try explaining to them that they are one the list of undesirables too, or dont if you value your time and sanity.
Exactly. If the parents don't already know, there's a reason.
It's a pro child abuse tactic by right wing child abuse fans.
LoL, the left is always projecting their crimes onto others.
BTW, the government doesn't co-parent our children.
Feel free to show some proof that 'not letting parents know their kids want to transition' is A) a crime, and B) a negative thing.
EDIT: Man, look at all this proof.
What does 'in loco parentis' mean?
I have a trans child, and they were terrified to tell me, but not because of anything I did. They ended up coming out to me multiple times because I didn't react the way they were told to expect.
They have plenty of trans friends whose lives would be much worse if their parents knew. I don't think any school has the right to reveal that kind of information before a kid is ready.
Stay strong, all we have to do to win is refuse to give up or give in
Exactly. I was disowned when I came out at 20. Telling my mom would’ve been bad because it would’ve denied me an important moment in our lives, and an opportunity for her to support me on our terms. Telling my then father would’ve just made him stop talking to me as a teenager.
Other kids face physical violence. It’s not uncommon for a trans person to be murdered by a parent.
This idea that parents have a right to know everything about their child will get kids killed. But kids aren’t people like parents are to many people
Im sorry you had to deal with that. I flipped the script on them, support this crap and they are gone, dissowned, refered to as 'the biggot formerly know as ', I'll talk about them as though they are sub-human, see how they like it.
Some relatives arent invited to my wedding because although I dont like my sil's spouse on a personal level, they are trans, they are invited and they will be protected. I would rather spend time with someone decent who I dont get along with than someone biggoted who I used to get along with.
I hope you are in a good place in life now, stay strong. It will take time but conservatives always lose to the inevitable march of progress. They've been losing, and that is why they are so mad
That’s exactly it. You’re not going to like everyone of an oppressed group, but you can dislike every bigot.
And yeah, these days I’m happily married and surrounded by my people. My problems are shit like stress and work and a landlord who ignores problems too long. Utterly boring, exactly the kinds of problems my younger self dreamed of.
I hope you’re doing better too.
"It's not uncommon for a trans person to be murdered by a parent..." could you share news stories about this? It would be helpful to have facts, but I've not seen any myself.
So a quick search I just found this for actual murders. https://www.advocate.com/crime/2021/3/04/trans-and-nonbinary-siblings-shot-death-mother-charged But if you count suicide because of the parents then there's a lot more like these. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leelah_Alcorn
Suicide isn't murder, however unfortunate it is.
So... one example?
I tried to explain this shit to my own dad when telling him that I would rather the schools keep that kind of info to himself and he just kept pushing that I would change my mind when my daughter was born. Somehow, it was inconceivable to him that informing parents of this kind of thing puts children at risk of emotional and physical harm.
Guess what: I still believe the same now that my daughter is born because I know there are shit parents out there who would torture their children for not conforming. I'm going to do everything I can to instill the kind of trust my daughter needs to tell me if she's part of the LGBT community. And if she doesn't feel comfortable? Then I've failed.
You know, I had my doubts about my parents ability as parents, but they always repeated I'd understand after I had my own. And they were right. After I had my kid I realized what a shit job they did parenting. They mostly meant well, but clearly not enough to read a book about it.
Good chance they'll be kicked out of their home or worse. There's an epidemic of lgbt youth homelessness nationwide, and it's even worse in Utah for obvious reasons. Schools should not be carte blanche informing parents without permission from the student, it's a safety issue. Reading their full guidance for teachers in another comment above it's making some very reasonable suggestions to help ensure student safety.
https://www.upr.org/utah-news/2012-06-11/utah-one-of-the-worst-places-to-be-lgbt-and-homeless
https://www.thetrevorproject.org/research-briefs/homelessness-and-housing-instability-among-lgbtq-youth-feb-2022/
Religion is child abuse, doubly so for LGBT kids
Get out of here with that. Utah is solidly in the middle of the pack for child homelessness. California is biggest per capita, four times the rate of Utah. Spreading misinformation doesn't help anyone. https://homelesslaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/03/2021StateIndexReport.pdf
https://usafacts.org/articles/which-states-have-the-highest-and-lowest-rates-of-homelessness/
https://247wallst.com/special-report/2024/02/22/states-with-the-biggest-child-homelessness-problem/
I am not spreading misinformation and did not imply that Utah had the worst youth homeless rate in general among all states, we're talking specifically about lgbt youth homelessness, and the greatly increased dangers of being kicked out of your home and many other types of abuse that LGBT youth face. This is a major problem across the entire country, including Utah. So I think in any state there should be a lot of thought put into whether schools should just start disclosing information like gender or sexual identities to students families, without assessing if that might be putting the student into danger.
Unfortunately Utah refuses to formally gather information on things like gender identity and sexual orientation in its youth homeless population, data that is gathered in many other states, so Utah has deliberately made a direct comparison between states not possible on this issue. You would also need to factor in that many homeless individuals relocate to areas with increased services to help. You would also need to consider if youth feel safe even disclosing this information to a state agency run by a very conservative lgbt hostile state government. If Utah wants to prove it's better on this issue and that the anecdotal evidence and evidence gathered directly at homeless shelters is wrong, than they can start gathering the data themselves, they've had plenty of chances to do so. I'm gonna assume the worst when they refuse to look. Go to any of the lgbt youth homeless centers in Salt Lake City before belittling this problem, and spreading awareness about it is not misinformation.
http://www.nomorestrangers.org/homeless-youth-in-utah/
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/lgbt-morman-youth_b_1597617
https://www.advocate.com/commentary/2016/2/03/suicides-or-not-lds-harming-lgbt-youth#toggle-gdpr
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-plight-of-homeless-yo_b_10205650
I know several LGBT youth because my oldest has been in that world for years. The religious families I know are not the ones who put their child at most risk, oddly. They aren't always happy about it, but none of them have threatened or hurt their children. Of the ones I know, three are in real danger. Two of those families aren't religious and one is not active in their faith.
I just think we should be careful about slinging around accusations that aren't grounded in facts. It leads more children to suicidal behavior because they assume from what people say that their parents' faith means they won't be accepted.
Going to the homeless shelters preselects for kids that have issues with their families. That doesn't say anything about the rates or the likelihood of any given family being a danger.
When I was a kid, teachers only called your parents if you were failing. Some of the teachers didn't even do that.
If anyone wants more context, you can read the document here.
The advice on the subject of informing parents reads:
Seems pretty reasonable to me.
That documents allignment is lawfull evil
It's not only happening, it's supported by the tyrannical left.
People say this isn't happening to the idea that everything outside is going to force a child to transition. Not telling families about noticing a child is some part of the LBTGQ+ community has gone on for some time now because those kids were being made homeless, physically abused, and murdered by their families when they found out.
So, if for some god forsaken reason, you have kids, I hope the same happens.
The phrase "tyrannical left" outs you as a nazi fyi
Shhh, we need Nazis to out themselves.
Yes. Children should only be allowed to exist so far as a parent lets them. There is no point where they can be allowed freedom to explore and find what makes them happy. The parents ideals for them are always correct and should never be questioned. Any deviation from the parents wishes is always wrong and the only way to preserve society is by strictly enforcing the things students are allowed to talk about.
And you call the people that oppose this line of thinking tyrannical?
evry tym.
Gender is a thought crime. Teachers need to report any student not conforming. Children expressing themselves needs to be stopped so we defeat the tyrants.
What are you even talking about?
I thought op's comment was satire...
Nope. Look at their comment history.
Lots of those. Checks out.
"This isn't happening"
I provide sources that show it is.
evry tym.
Lemmy sure is a dichotomy of opposite types of people.
I managed to check some of your sources before they went and a lot of them are lingering parental reporting of social contagion theory which has been a disproven method of scientific data collection for outcomes of patients... or based out of the UK where the Gender clinic situation has been decried as a mess by trans people because there are far too few clinics to service the needs of the trans population at large so issues of misconduct are being caused to sheer volume issues - something trans people in the UK are fighting tooth and nail to rectify. These articles while holding sources are linking to other articles that have purposefully ommited contexts or discredited scientific studies at their core and its worth actually drilling down.
For a starter insider look at what it's like to be in the UK system as an adult along with the structural issues and trans issues as unique to the UK I recommend https://youtu.be/v1eWIshUzr8?si=55znLlcRupaE3SuJ
The sources off that video are genuinely good and the presenter is very engaging and funny. It's a long video but I think worth a watch.
You like abusing kids
The funny thing is, your stupidity is so bad you don't even know what you are raging against. If you weren't such a fucking moron, you would have read the ACTUAL policy instead of basing your opinion on the National Review's selective excerpts from the policy. The ACTUAL policy says that if the students ask to be called anything other than their birth pronouns that the parents should be informed AND that the parents' choice is honored. It is only discouraged to tell the parents if there is no danger seen AND no change to pronouns.