What are some companies that deserve to be boycotted to death?

erik111189@lemmy.world to Ask Lemmy@lemmy.world – 349 points –

So far my list includes Comcast, EA, and Nestle. Tell me yours, and I'll help out.

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Here's my list that I avoid if and where I can. As with everything, things are nuanced and complex, and it's not like every company I personally boycott is outright bad or good all around. I wasn't going to write down the reasoning for each and every one, but ask away if you want to know about the reasoning behind particular ones. I'll also note, this is 100% not in any order (other than as they came to mind), it was time consuming enough making this vs. ranking them all!

Disney
EA
Volkswagen
Tesla
BMW
Audi
NVIDIA
Nintendo
Google
Apple
Facebook
Shell
Microsoft
X
Discord
Reddit
Old Spice
Costco
Netflix
Spotify
Nestle
Toyota
Tencent
Blizzard
Uber
DuPont
Fountain Tire
Walmart
Boeing
Brave
Princess
Moxies Group
Hewlett Packard
Amazon

On the flip side, companies that while not perfect, I think overall are doing good things that I try to support when I can (if only with word of mouth in some cases):

Valve
Framework
Firefox
Pine64
Raspberry Pi
Hyundai
Lucid
System 76
A&W
Trail Tire
Plex
Amanita Games
iBroadcast
Volvo
Napa
Fairphone

There's probably more I'm missing, I'm a pretty strong believer that companies rule most of the western world and that if individuals want the world to meaningfully improve, we have to vote with our wallets as diligently as we vote at the polling stations.

Hyundai

Get the fuck outta here putting them in the good category. They got rid of immobilizers which led to thousands and thousands of cars getting stolen - mine included. Then when my car was recovered, the repairs took 5 weeks and they told me to pound sand when I brought up how the remote start THEY installed when I bought it didn't work anymore.

You should really include your reasons instead of waiting for people to ask. I just reread your list and it seems extremely arbitrary

That would be a TON of writing, which nobody would read. Thanks for pointing that out, as with anything, these are my opinions and I hope you form your own as well. My opinions aren't perfect, and none of these companies are outright "good" or "bad".

Their immobilizer issues (also see the fire issues with the Telluride and Palisade), are definitely a pretty dark mark on them recently, and I can't account for every individual's. It sounds like your views towards them are entirely justified, my main reasons (I have this above in more detail) for supporting them are because I've always gotten utterly exceptional customer support from them (again things vary), but primarily because they've been a leader in electrication, they continue to make smaller vehicles and not road hogging mega-SUVs only, and all around are making very good products right now despite some issues.

I think there's a definite media/perspective bias with vehicle manufacturers, for example Toyota is on my naughty list which would probably surprise alot of people, but they have had some of the largest (and indeed the very largest) vehicle recalls in automotive history in the last 10 years, some causing death and injury (see floormat recalls, Takata airbags, etc.) and yet they have so much hush money and such a "good reliable brand" reputation that nobody seems to care.

Hyundai (like alot of Korean companies, coughsamsungcough) has pretty heavy ties and influence over the government which is also kinda sketch, but perhaps you're right and maybe they better deserve to be in just a neutral category for myself.

I won't tell you to get the fuck outta here for your differing views on Hyundai, but as I noted, none of these companies are perfect and their recalls and issues with this pale in comparison to those recently with Toyota for example, as much as I know this has personally harmed you directly.

Recalls are not a problem by themselves- much better to address an issue directly than to just let it burn (no pun intended).

Hyundai/Kia also has a long list of problems that should not be ignored. On top of them skimping on immobilizers, they've done everything possible to avoid making it right. First they avoided even acknowledging the issue. They took forever to issue a software update to address it. They announced a solution where you, the victim of their shoddy designs, could buy (at a very healthy profit) a product to protect yourself. Under pressure from numerous lawsuits, they started giving out "The Club", which was peak 1980s anti-theft technology. But they did so in the absolute worst possible way - in an incomprehensible patchwork of local police departments.

Their fire issues are multiple. In addition to the one you mentioned (22V-633 / 22V-626), there's also 23V-651000 / 23V-652000, 21V-160 / 21V-161, 21V-137, 22V-056, and 22V-810000. While there is a lot of overlap in these, there are also multiple distinct issues. This also doesn't even address the repeated battery fires, since that seems to affect all EV brands.

You mention Takata airbags, which is an odd detail- Takata just issued another recall. This one affects nearly all brands, except Hyundai/Kia.

Then there's the critical issue of their datamining. Kia explicitly states that they collect and sell data on your sex life, genetic information, religious or philosophical beliefs, and the contents of your text messages.

I'm not here to defend Toyota; they certainly have their own list of problems. But I am going to say that Hyundai/Kia is not the solution.

I wasn't aware of the datamining, I know this is something other brands are doing as well (I believe Ford and Tesla had stories that come to mind. Thanks for the extra info on the immobilizer issues, they might well be off my good list here. I agree, a recall that is well handled isn't bad in and of itself, but repeated recalls shows carelessness, particularly when it isn't done voluntarily by the company but rather due to legal matters.

My only issue with the great information you have above is the fact that while battery fires do happen with EV's rates of fires in ICE vehicles is magnitudes higher than with EV's and this is fairly well documented (which you didn't directly say, but seemed to be implied) here's a link at any rate that's decently cited https://core.verisk.com/Insights/Emerging-Issues/Articles/2023/August/Week-4/Electric-Vehicle-Fire-Risk but maybe I read into what you wrote wrong. Thanks for the extra information!

Costco? Why?

At least half of these are the “Why he say fuck me for!?” meme. Costco actually treats their employees well, has razor thin margins, keeps profits low to maximize value, and pays living wages. Also, $1.50 hotdogs in 2023 is bordering on insanity as far as value is concerned.

I also have no idea how you truly avoid all of these without living like Ted Kaczynski.

Sure, thanks for asking, as with anything, these are my opinions and I hope you form your own as well. My opinions aren't perfect, and none of these companies are outright "good" or "bad". It is very hard, I definitely am not always successful (living without touching Apple, Google, and Microsoft some way in the modern world is near impossible), but I do my best.

Costco is definitely one of the less clear cut "they're bad guys" ones on this list, and definitely is doing many good things. My primary reason is the use of a yearly subscription model. Again, a hugely complex topic that could take up paragraphs, but overall I disagree with subscription models for goods, that $1.50 hot dog is not actually $1.50. There are benefits to subscription models (in this case ensuring regular stable income for the company, helps keep prices lower for products where profits might otherwise fluctuate more and they need a bigger profit buffer). They're also on here for the damage they do to local businesses and just suburban colossus that they are with acres of parking lot, it's an eysore, and unpleasant to go to. Lastly, is a 100% biased personal one, but I went once with an autistic client who was so excited to go see Costco, and he only wanted to see and look around, and despite being told beforehand we could go in with a friend who had a card, they turned us away at the door despite my explaining the situation and it totally ruined his day and forever rubbed me the wrong way.

I appreciate the honest reply, and I hope I didn’t come across as condescending in my last post as it was not meant to be an attack, but more of a “huh?” statement. All of those are valid concerns, but I would argue that while not perfect, they’re a much better version of Sam’s/Walmart/Target, and their bulk goods offering doesn’t put them in direct competition with smaller mom and pop stores due to consumers not being able to get quantities/brands that they always want. It’s also very supportive to markets like local restaurants and stores that don’t have built in supply chains that may not want to shop at conglomerate supply stores.

Short version, I don’t necessarily agree with you, but I appreciate your perspective and the well thought out response.

Thanks for the response and clarification :) you definitely make some good points!

This was a very healthy discourse, I just want to say good work to both parties.

You both have different opinions, were able to discuss them civily, and didn't resort to name calling. Well done.

That $1.50 hot dog is actually $1.50. You don't even need to be a member to buy it.

You do need to be a member, or accompanied by a member to enter the building and buy it though (at least where I live, perhaps this rule is different in different places?)

If your local store isn't following Costco's policies, that's not Costco's fault. Report them if you really want.

A membership is absolutely not required to use the "food court". The machine doesn't scan or use your membership at all. The rest of your complaints are equally bold faced lies that don't in any way match Costco's policy, or full on unhinged lunatic horseshit.

At all the Costcos where I live, there is staff rather than a machine at the very front door that prevents entry without a membership, even to the food court. I think it's much more likely that their policies vary from country to country, rather than their being a rogue sect of policy breakers in my city. I don't think my view of Costco based of the customer experience I've had there is any indication of lunacy, I've had a bad time there, and so it's okay I don't like it. Just like it's okay that you do. I'm glad you've seemed to have had a more positive experience, and they definitely do treat their staff better than some. My issues with subscription based models, and land development with Costco remains though and I don't think my opinions changed.

I hope you have a good day and that people's differing opinions on Costco isn't nearly so upsetting for you in the future!

Your stance on membership is full on looney tunes.

It's not a statement that allows for the possibility that a person has even a shred of intelligence or sanity.

Support

Hyundai

Wow. Really?

I replied above if you want more context for my reasoning. It seems to be one of the more controversial takes on the list, perhaps something for me to reassess!

Can you clarify for Toyota, Hyundai and Volvo?

I'm curious about Toyota as well. They are regarded as one of, if not the most, reliable car manufacturers.

If you see my reply to questions about Hyundai on the list, Toyota and many other companies do alot of PR to maintain certain reputations, and Toyota does a spectacular job of this. I do think they make more reliable than average cars, no doubt. But here's some lesser known facts, Mazda has actually beat Toyota for 2 years running as the most reliable brand according to Consumer Reports, Toyota has had the largest, and multiple other recalls in automotive history in the last 10-15 years, some causing death and injury (Takata airbags, floormat issues, and more), and further they have lobbied heavily against electric technologies since they were salty they invested so much in hydrogen fuel cell systems. Again, it's not like all Toyota's are awful, but while still reliable, they've been dropping the ball big time lately, and that's not to mention how utterly mundane their cars are which is a little more personal preference based. Thanks for asking, I hope that helps explain my reasoning!

I did see your answer to this question in another comment. So thank you for taking the time to address me as well. I was not aware of Mazda reliability so thanks for that too.

Now that you mention it I remember reading about the Prius problem. Something about that they could not stop. I also knew but forgot about the large number of recalls. They had to replace the frame on a large number of Tacoma's. How do they mess up so bad that they basically had to assemble every Tacoma twice? Rhetorical, no need to answer.

Sure, thanks for asking, as with anything, these are my opinions and I hope you form your own as well. My opinions aren't perfect, and none of these companies are outright "good" or "bad".

Toyota because of their heavy lobbying against electric car technologies simply because they sunk so much money into Hydrogen technologies and wanted to be the winner. Also they have had a slew of absolutely colossal recalls lately for avoidable stuff, and people have died (see drivers floormat issues).

Hyundai because they've been a leader in electrification of vehicles, have always given me exceptional customer support, and all around are just making quality stuff right now.

Volvo because throughout there history there's few if any automotive companies that have shown more of a commitment to doing the right thing, they pushed for safety regulations back in the day and the implications have ripples to today, and still are, alongside also doing well with electrification.

I’m not sure why you are considering Toyota as evil for opting for Hydrogen Technologies. It is a viable alternate and clean fuel.

In a vacuum, sure, hydrogen for personal vehicles is great. In reality, though, you're down at about 30% efficiency between the H2 geting extracted from wherever, and you gassing up your car.

Additionally, if more than 5% of that H2 escapes into the atmosphere at any time, it actually does more damage to the planet than fossil fuels, by preoccupying the hydroxyl radicals in the sky that would otherwise be breaking down greenhouse gases.

Add on to that, that if I actually had to pay for hydrogen fuel, it would cost me 6x as much per mile to run my Hyundai Nexo than a Prius. H2 in SoCal is currently $36/kg at the pump, having doubled or nearly tripled in price in the last 18 months. (Somehow, in Korea it's only $2/kg.)

H2 fuel cell tech has its place as a fuel (but not in combustion engines like BMW is trying to do though... that's just a farce). Trucks/long-haul vehicles, planes, ships all would be better off running H2. It fuels up fast, is way lighter than any battery, and is pretty darn energy dense. But for around-town driving, BEVs right now are just a much better option. Their problem is heavy batteries and comparatively longer fueling time than gasoline/hydrogen.

Fossil fuels are just amazingly energy dense, and we're not going to replace them 1:1 any time soon. Every alternative involves massive tradeoffs.

Source: I own a 2022 Hyundai Nexo hydrogen SUV. Love it as a car, but most of the H2 fueling stations are broken down half the time (you need to check an app to see which one, if any, are currently working), and the price of the fuel in the US is no longer viable. When my free fuel card expires in 2025, I'll be getting either a BEV or PHEV. Lucid or Polaris are looking nice.

I 100% wholeheartedly agree, but to actively lobby against the use of other clean alternatives that show promise are better established setting back the environmental progress make in this industry, just because they want to make the big money on THEIR clean technology, is what I have issue with. That is crappy in my books.

Hydrogen fuel cells are genuinely better than lithium powered EVs.

I'm not trying to say toyota is a "good" brand, but your reasoning makes no sense. I'm pretty sure Honda was the one who invested most into fuel cells, the clarity FCX came out way back in 2008, and they are still doing development on a new CRV. Not to mention Hyundai also has a hydrogen fuel cell EV, this is not a bad investment by anyone.

Like do you think Toyota was lobbying because they were investing billions into hydrogen EVs, or maybe it was the hundreds of billions they've spent over a lifetime making ICE engines, transmissions, belts, brakes, and everything else.

Hydrogen EVs main problem is fuel production and transportation, there is no way around that. But in terms of pollution during production, hydrogen fuel cells are a fraction of the impact that a shortly lived lithium pack will have. Not to mention you can recycle some gas powered cars by making hydrogen combustion engines, no new production is the best kind of emission reduction.

Hi, thanks for the extra information you clearly know your stuff on this topic. See my reply above, I seem to have been misunderstood sorry if I was unclear. I have zero issue with hydrogen technologies for vehicles, they're great, and even better in some ways than battery options. My issue is solely with Toyota actively avoiding going full electric themselves and lobbying EVs due to their heavy investment in hydrogen. I wasn't actually aware Honda had sunk in as much as Toyota in this area as well so thanks for the extra info. LIke with anything (especially with a list as long as mine!) I don't pretend to know everything, but it was certainly my understanding that Toyota was fighting against battery EV's specifically because of their desire to get a lead foothold in the hydrogen vehicle sector and make this the dominant clean option, perhaps I was mistaken!

Hydrogen cars are EVs. The lithium-ion EV is the doomed technology, propped up by hype and subsidies.

You're 100% correct, fundamentally the drive system is still electric motors (and all the advantages that come with that!) I would have to disagree that lithium-ion EV is doomed, I think it's better to conceptualize it as a stepping stone technology, I think we will move away from Li-Ion in the relatively near future, but it has supercharged (pun intended) investment and research in battery technologies (lithium fluoride, solid state, etc.) that will likely take over this mantle. I would be surprised given the necessary infrastructure, and lack of adoption thusfar if hydrogen did become the dominant mode of power in vehicles, but any of these would be a step in the right direction even if none are perfect currently. Thanks for your comment, I added some more on my thoughts on hydrogen in replies above as well!

12/10 for Hyundai from me too. Exceptional value for money and solid motors (In the EU)

Amazon is one of the most evil companies on the planet and yet it's not on your list but Costco is? Gonna have to completely disagree with you. Costco is probably one of if not the best company in the fortune 500. They operate and live by their code ethics to do the right thing. They've never ever had a lay off of employees, they treat people right.

You called them out for a subscription model, yet don't understand what they are offering at all. What store can you shop at that offers products at zero margin? Costco's yearly net profit is the number of members times the membership cost. Their entire business profit is only the $100 membership fee per person. That's all they want to make from each person.

Edit: And then you have Amazon. Where they use people and dump them. Have a vulturistic operating model. They literally have meetings and design their software to trick people into buying at a higher cost. They'll manipulate anyone anyway they see fit to make as much money as possible from them. They sell stolen and counterfeit products and they know it, they just let it happen because validating products would cost them money. They'd rather just say sorry if you catch them and give a refund.

Wow I must have totally spaced there, thanks for catching that! As I note in an above reply Amazon probably makes my top 5 most hated companies, I absolutely 100% do not shop there or use it, I can't believe I missed that on my list, my apologies.

I did not know that their only profit is on their subscriptions, and I'll look into that as I'm doubtful of that (I could be wrong though!) Thanks for the info there, but I still fundamentally take issue with subscription based models, as well as other issues I note in replies above with them like business displacement, bad personal experiences, and the urban sprawl they create. Again I'll reiterate that no company is outright good or bad, and Costco is definitely pretty low on my bad list (perhaps deserving of being viewed more neutrally by me), the general view definitely seems to vary from mine so perhaps it's worth reassessing.

As to your notes on Amazon again, I 100%, utterly, could not agree more, I just apparently missed them on my list and have since edited them in! Definitely an awful awful company, it astounds me furthermore how virtually everyone is unanimous on this, but nonetheless virtually everyone seems to use them anyways. Some others in the comments swayed my views on Hyundai to change, but I believe my views on Costco stand, based on the replies of some others, it seems the policies of Costco vary somewhat where I live vs. other countries (e.g., using bouncers instead of machines at the door, disallowing people from using even the food court without a card, etc.) so that might factor into why my views on them are different. Thanks for your input, I'll be looking into Costco more about their profit model!

Last minute addition: I did a bit of looking and it seems we're both partially right, while Costco offers some items at cost or at a loss, they do indeed turn a profit off of actual sales in store(again, perhaps this is different by country, and might not be the case where you live?), as well as membership fees, and profit margins on eCommerce sales as well.

I can understand a lot of it but I haven't seen Old Spice since the 80s. What did they do? Poison your grandma?

Sure, thanks for asking, as with anything, these are my opinions and I hope you form your own as well. My opinions aren't perfect, and none of these companies are outright "good" or "bad".

Haha, you're closer than you think, chemical burned my wife. This one is fairly personal obviously rather than an overarching issue, but there was a class action lawsuit maybe 8ish years ago over a faulty batch, my wife was unable to be involved for compensation since the class action was in the US, but we were applying gauze and antibiotics, and watching her skin goopify and have to peel it off her screaming in the shower, it was pretty awful. Despite reaching out, all we got was a resounding "deal with it bud" from Old Spice. I refuse to ever use their products again.

Wow. I'm surprised I've never heard of this issue. I hope your wife is okay now.

She is, thanks for asking. And to be fair to Old Spice it was probably a fairly localized issue, and isn't some massive awful pattern of being a bad company, but call it my personal vendetta, it's forever marked them for me, particularly given their response.

Where's Apple?

Edit: oh there they are. Far too low on the list imo.

This 100% is NOT an ordered list, maybe I'll edit and make that clear. I just didn't have the time or energy to order this properly, if you're curious though my top 5 might look something like 1. Facebook/Meta, 2. Apple, 3. Google, 4. Nestle, 5. Amazon. There's of course companies that are obvious that I didn't included, virtually any gambling company, tobacco company, gun companies (although that's less universal depending on your views on gun laws which is another can of worms we perhaps don't need to open here), oil and gas company, etc. Thanks for pointing that out so I can clear that up!

Ah, another Amanita Games fan!

I was hoping someone would mention that :) Man, their devotion to continue just making outright pieces of art, with incredible passion, and a seemingly small niche fanbase is something I can't not respect the hell out of. No gimmicks, no DLCs, no selling out. They've just been doing what they love since their days of browser games, and never stopped making those types of games. Good guys.

I agree with almost all on your 'bad' list. I'm unfamiliar with a couple, so have no opinion.

Your 'good' list is good. I disagree with several, such as Hyundai, Plex, rPi, for example, but I don't think they should be boycotted to oblivion, either. Except maybe Hyundai, who can crawl under a rock and die. I'm never buying another Hyundai car as long as I can.

I've definitely had some good discourse on Hyundai above and have learned alot, I still wouldn't put them in my bad list, but they might not be in my good list anymore either?

I'm curious as to why you disagree on Plex and rPi? My knowledge of them to be fair is far from exhaustive, but to massively simplify they're on my good list because of (plex) how open, flexible, and ownership of your own media focused it is vs. every company buying out shows from each other and subscription feeing users into oblivion, and (rPi) their education focus for kids, tinkering and repairing attitude, and making open useful little chips without being part of the hellish behemoths of other tech companies. Thanks for sharing!

He's probably mad they allocate some Pis to businesses that depend on them to function.

Not mad about it, but it is against their original purpose. Originally they were for learning as a cheap SBC for learning purposes, and it became about as expensive as a NUC for less than a third of the power. Highschoolers can afford a $35 SBC, but most can't afford a $190 SBC, which prices many kids and teens out of a learning opportunity. I am upset at them for selling out, but I can't really blame them for doing so. It's why they're not on the good list, but also not on the bad list.