I saw a documentary about a guy trying to find a "humane" execution method, he came to the conclusion that suffocation with nitrogen gas probably was the least bad.
It doesn't trigger a feeling of panic as CO2 poisoning does, you simply drift away in a hypoxic high filled with mild confusion without the dread.
People on both sides of the death penalty issue thought is was barbaric, proponents of the death penalty thought it was wrong to remove the suffering from the person, they felt it would be wrong to let say a serial killer just drift away in a high, while opponents of the death penalty felt it was barbaric as it would lessen the felt impact of taking a life and might cause governments to reinstate the death penalty.
It was an interesting documentary...
That was one of Louis Theroux's phenomenal docos.
He was super confused at the end when he was met with "but we want to hurt them" it was a bit funny how jarring it was, but also really sad.
I think I found the one I saw, it was this BBC Horizon documentary:
Eh, who am I kidding, everyone is on whatever lists the powers that be decide they want us on....
Synopsis:
Former Conservative MP, Michael Portillo pushes his body to the brink of death in an investigation into the science of execution.
As the American Supreme Court examines whether the lethal injection is causing prisoners to die in unnecessary pain Michael sets out to find a solution which is fundamentally humane. To do so he examines the key methods of execution available today: he discovers why convicts can catch on fire in the electric chair, learns how easy it is to botch a hanging and inhales a noxious gas to experience first hand the terror of the gas chamber.
Armed with some startling evidence Michael considers a completely new approach. Will it be the answer? There is only one way of finding out - to experience it himself.
Oh wow that looks interesting, I'll have to have a watch!
If done right, sure.
Alabama tried to kill the person first in line already with lethal injection and failed, so the odds of them doing nitrogen gas right is pretty fucking slim.
They'd have to fuck it up to a truly astonishing degree for it to be anywhere near as bad as a failed execution using the other methods currently in use. Like maybe use chlorine gas instead of nitrogen.
They just need to not have good seals on the mask so non-nitrogen air leaks in which would give the same symptoms as slow suffocation.
Note that they keep fucking up to an astonishing degree, so it is likely to happen with any method they try.
No. It would either work more slowly or it wouldn't work. There would be no pain.
The feeling of suffocation comes from a buildup of CO2 in the body, not from a lack of oxygen.
Since regular air is pretty close to 80/20 nitrogen and oxygen, simply removing the oxygen results in a painless, odorless death.
It's actually a concern for people using rebreathers. If the CO2 scrubber keeps working but new oxygen isn't introduced into the system, the diver will go from feeling fine to passing out without ever knowing it.
would give the same symptoms as slow suffocation
If you don't understand the science, please STFU.
A bad seal means that the co2 is not being removed properly and not being replaced with nitrogen as designed. Plus the person knows they are being killed, which makes the smallest physical symptoms more noticeable since people do notice things they are expecting.
Being hostile while defending the state that keeps fucking up executions makes you look like an ass.
I understand the arguments put forth, so how about a band saw?
I feel divided on this topic.
Im in two minds about it.
I’m personally a fan of the James Bond’esque “Strap them to a Saint Andrew’s cross and slowly cut them in half with a burning laser” method.
Starting from the crotch, going up
What if we lay them on their side, and start at the feet, so you get a front half and a back half?
Pretty sure I know which one you're talking about. Was British... BBC or something... But is on YouTube.
I remember the scene where he is in a hypoxic state himself in a chamber and he needs to press a big red button or he dies. They kept telling him "press the button or you die" and he was just so high and goofy laughing about it and not pressing the button.
Very interesting show as you say.
One night working late a coworker of mine nearly went that way. He was just tired and said he was spacing out. Meanwhile the alarms were blaring.
Man if I were the guy this was first being tested on I would probably try and fuck it up in the worst way possible just to screw with the people executing me.
Like as soon as the gas turns on start screaming my ass off like they mixed up nitrogen gas with acid gas instead and produced the worst pain ever until I finally passed out.
Just wrong. You only drift off if you are unaware that you are suffocating! The person being executed is fully aware that they are dying via suffocation. That person is going to be in full panic mode trying to get as much air into their lungs as possible.
Pure nitrogen gas is a significant industrial hazard for the reasons you stated. There is sure to be an element of panic since they are aware that they are being executed. That is going to be true whether the execution is being done via hypoxia, injection, or firing squad.
I suppose it depends on your exact definition of suffocating. You will absolutely be able to take full, satisfying breaths the entire time. If you do not tell them when the gas is turned on, even knowing that it's coming, they would be unlikely to even notice.
While there are no clinical studies (for obvious reasons), there is footage of industrial accidents. It seems that people succumb VERY quickly, possibly on their first full breath.
Most debates around execution methods are about the method itself. They typically exclude the morality and cruelty of the idea of a death penalty in general. I don't think this one can be separated, though. The concern is that it's untested for executions, but the only way to test it is to use it for executions. There is ample evidence of its use on livestock, but this is of limited value for humans.
As a side note, no medical doctors can be involved with executions. It's a direct violation of the Hippocratic Oath.
Source?
How do you source that? If people actually cared about quick and painless we'd just go back to beheadings. But it's not for the person being executed. It's so people can feel good about themselves when it's done.
Have you experienced the effects of nitrogen? I'm asking where you got that info from. There are videos of the use of nitrogen on animals.
Those videos do not match what you are describing.
Well I have seen someone nearly die from it and according to him he was just tired and spacing out.
Same. Diving tank fill accident near Wilmington, NC. Just like CO, they had basically no idea. Not even the headache that CO gives you.
I saw a documentary about a guy trying to find a "humane" execution method, he came to the conclusion that suffocation with nitrogen gas probably was the least bad.
It doesn't trigger a feeling of panic as CO2 poisoning does, you simply drift away in a hypoxic high filled with mild confusion without the dread.
People on both sides of the death penalty issue thought is was barbaric, proponents of the death penalty thought it was wrong to remove the suffering from the person, they felt it would be wrong to let say a serial killer just drift away in a high, while opponents of the death penalty felt it was barbaric as it would lessen the felt impact of taking a life and might cause governments to reinstate the death penalty.
It was an interesting documentary...
That was one of Louis Theroux's phenomenal docos.
He was super confused at the end when he was met with "but we want to hurt them" it was a bit funny how jarring it was, but also really sad.
I think I found the one I saw, it was this BBC Horizon documentary:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/broadband/tx/executions/
https://imdb.com/title/tt1228865/
I am sure I am on a list now for googling
horizon how to kill a human being
Eh, who am I kidding, everyone is on whatever lists the powers that be decide they want us on....
Synopsis:
Oh wow that looks interesting, I'll have to have a watch!
If done right, sure.
Alabama tried to kill the person first in line already with lethal injection and failed, so the odds of them doing nitrogen gas right is pretty fucking slim.
They'd have to fuck it up to a truly astonishing degree for it to be anywhere near as bad as a failed execution using the other methods currently in use. Like maybe use chlorine gas instead of nitrogen.
They just need to not have good seals on the mask so non-nitrogen air leaks in which would give the same symptoms as slow suffocation.
Note that they keep fucking up to an astonishing degree, so it is likely to happen with any method they try.
No. It would either work more slowly or it wouldn't work. There would be no pain.
The feeling of suffocation comes from a buildup of CO2 in the body, not from a lack of oxygen.
Since regular air is pretty close to 80/20 nitrogen and oxygen, simply removing the oxygen results in a painless, odorless death.
It's actually a concern for people using rebreathers. If the CO2 scrubber keeps working but new oxygen isn't introduced into the system, the diver will go from feeling fine to passing out without ever knowing it.
If you don't understand the science, please STFU.
A bad seal means that the co2 is not being removed properly and not being replaced with nitrogen as designed. Plus the person knows they are being killed, which makes the smallest physical symptoms more noticeable since people do notice things they are expecting.
Being hostile while defending the state that keeps fucking up executions makes you look like an ass.
I understand the arguments put forth, so how about a band saw?
I feel divided on this topic.
Im in two minds about it.
I’m personally a fan of the James Bond’esque “Strap them to a Saint Andrew’s cross and slowly cut them in half with a burning laser” method.
Starting from the crotch, going up
What if we lay them on their side, and start at the feet, so you get a front half and a back half?
So both sides just wanted some blood eagle shit
We want rehabilitation
It was just too far removed from either side.
Pretty sure I know which one you're talking about. Was British... BBC or something... But is on YouTube.
I remember the scene where he is in a hypoxic state himself in a chamber and he needs to press a big red button or he dies. They kept telling him "press the button or you die" and he was just so high and goofy laughing about it and not pressing the button.
Very interesting show as you say.
One night working late a coworker of mine nearly went that way. He was just tired and said he was spacing out. Meanwhile the alarms were blaring.
Man if I were the guy this was first being tested on I would probably try and fuck it up in the worst way possible just to screw with the people executing me.
Like as soon as the gas turns on start screaming my ass off like they mixed up nitrogen gas with acid gas instead and produced the worst pain ever until I finally passed out.
Just wrong. You only drift off if you are unaware that you are suffocating! The person being executed is fully aware that they are dying via suffocation. That person is going to be in full panic mode trying to get as much air into their lungs as possible.
Pure nitrogen gas is a significant industrial hazard for the reasons you stated. There is sure to be an element of panic since they are aware that they are being executed. That is going to be true whether the execution is being done via hypoxia, injection, or firing squad.
I suppose it depends on your exact definition of suffocating. You will absolutely be able to take full, satisfying breaths the entire time. If you do not tell them when the gas is turned on, even knowing that it's coming, they would be unlikely to even notice.
While there are no clinical studies (for obvious reasons), there is footage of industrial accidents. It seems that people succumb VERY quickly, possibly on their first full breath.
Most debates around execution methods are about the method itself. They typically exclude the morality and cruelty of the idea of a death penalty in general. I don't think this one can be separated, though. The concern is that it's untested for executions, but the only way to test it is to use it for executions. There is ample evidence of its use on livestock, but this is of limited value for humans.
As a side note, no medical doctors can be involved with executions. It's a direct violation of the Hippocratic Oath.
Source?
How do you source that? If people actually cared about quick and painless we'd just go back to beheadings. But it's not for the person being executed. It's so people can feel good about themselves when it's done.
Have you experienced the effects of nitrogen? I'm asking where you got that info from. There are videos of the use of nitrogen on animals.
Those videos do not match what you are describing.
Well I have seen someone nearly die from it and according to him he was just tired and spacing out.
Same. Diving tank fill accident near Wilmington, NC. Just like CO, they had basically no idea. Not even the headache that CO gives you.
This is false.
The previous statement requires faith. Otherwise it would probably be true.