I strongly suspect this was a fabricated attempt. It wasn't some kind of impossible shot. Only reasons for it to have failed are an utter lack of ability on the part of the shooter, or it was supposed to miss.
A bad shooter is definitely possible, but it just smacks of an intentional attack made to enrage followers.
You simply won't hire anyone shooting at your ear with live ammunition from that distance.
Exactly. Never put down to conspiracy anything that can equally be explained by incompetence.
And didn't innocent person die too?
I don't at all believe the conspiracy, because of what Tiptopit said about live ammo at that distance. But if one were conspiratorially minded, I doubt the death of one innocent would sway them in the slightest.
The people who would be involved in such an alleged conspiracy would not give two shits about that. Collateral damage.
In fact they probably see it as a plus. Get the folks even more riled up.
No, you hide a razor in your hand and cut your own ear, of course.
I don't know why we're still having this conversation because people made ironic jokes about trump being in the wwe and knowing how to blade. If you listen to the extremely peaked out audio, you can hear the report of the gunshots, which would not be possible with blanks. They have a different sound signature, different sound profile. You can likewise hear the difference in caliber and therefore sound profile when the secret service fires back. This guy fully shot in the direction of the president. There's not really any plausible way this was fake.
you can hear the report of the gunshots,
Fascinating that you appear to know so much about the sound of gunfire, and yet you don't know the difference between rapport and report.
Totally an expert, just not one who has ever read these words right?
Look up the definitions of both of those words and then get back to me.
Rapport means like, a reputation between two people. report is a word that can have a bunch of different meanings, one of them, as a noun, listed third on google's listed definitions, because I did look it up because I thought I might be wrong when you pointed this out, is "a sudden loud noise of or like an explosion or gunfire.". Me personally, I kind of thought and still perhaps think that it stems from the idea that, you are hearing the report of the gunshot itself, when you hear the sound. Sort of like how thunder is a way to describe the sound of lightning rather than lightning itself. And it's a "report" because it tells you about the thing from which it originated based on the nature of the sound.
So, I dunno, fuck off before you decide to start questioning me on the basis of my misspellings rather than on the basis of my proposed information. Sure, I'm an armchair guy making armchair statements, that's everyone on basically any website on the internet. Go ask for credentials from anyone else making statements about this shit, you probably won't get any. Did you attempt to dispute any of the shit I actually said? Nope, instead you decided to question my ability to distinguish one word from another. Maybe I was using text to speech, maybe I'm ESL, maybe I'm just stupid, who knows, but apparently you were just as easily able to understand what I said so I guess it doesn't really matter in the end, huh? Go ad hominem yourself in the mirror, you costco ball ass removed aaaaand post
Hey guess what, sometimes in the English language a word might have more than one meaning. Crazy concept, I know.
Gunfire doesn't "report" to anyone or anything.
I could copy/paste the Dictionary.com definition of "report" like you did, if that makes this easier for you to understand.
Do you want to give me any real material or are we done here? You have class in like two hours dude you're gonna be late
You have class in like two hours dude you're gonna be late
Is this supposed to be an insult? I graduated from University over a decade ago, so in some ways I kind of wish I did have a class to get to.
You seem like an angry, small person.
And you certainly rely on the assassin shooting at you with blanks and only kill other people?
Come on, work with me here, do I write the fiction all by myself?
Let’s see, you have the handler that hired the chap off him with an AR pistol to “erase the file”. Maybe things got hairy and other people were shot.
And then have the secret service kill the guy behind you?
Let me guess, you’ve never fired a rifle while amped up on adrenaline. If you had you’d know most shots will miss unless you’re conditioned to the adrenaline response. Shaky hands and near hyperventilation make for horrible shot groups.
125 yards is only an easy shot for a professional shooter who has been exposed to duress to numb that adrenaline response. This was a 20 year old kid who had never been to war.
Way easier shot if you bring a fucking scope
Kid didn’t have a scope on that rifle?
I did not see one on the rifle in the tmz video of him opening fire and getting counter sniped
I've seen other comments saying the same but maybe wait for more official reporting because it was video taken by an attendee on their phone. Not the highest/clearest quality
we'll add that one to the "impulse killing with a truck gun" theory, then
125 is a mid range shot.
Maybe I'm over estimating the ability of the shooter, but not only can I make that kind of shot now, I could at that age. If you can't climb a tree stand and make a clean shot with your heart pumping, you aren't going to even get close to the target anyway.
Adrenaline is a huge factor, I can't deny that. But if it was enough of a factor to foul the shot, that was an incredibly lucky earpiercing.
I dunno, maybe I am just too used to good shooting. My grandfather was a competitive shooter, and he's the one that taught all of us. Most of my family that shoots could make that shot and it wouldn't be anything to brag about at camp.
But the rest of it still smacks of a planned shooting that wasn't supposed to kill trump.
I think "Planned Non-Lethal Shot At POTUS's Head" falls on the wrong side of Occam's Razor.
Bull shit. There is no fucking way it was trumps plan to be shot at. He really didn’t need to stage an assassination attempt just to drum up votes, because HE WAS WINNING. This is q anon levels of dumb
Never said it was trump that planned it
It’s even worse if you suggest that it was a republican conspiracy attempting a false flag assassination attempt to boost ratings. An attempt mind you that was an inch from being a successful, and probably would have lead to a Democratic win with a presidency given a gun and the right to use it next cycle. Again Qanon would and had said such things in the past, and the rest of us called them crazy.
And the instant, “he’s not one of US!, only republicans would think of doing something like that” Is kinda desperate.
Well, I'm not saying it as a democrat for one thing. I'm much further left. Which you didn't say, but I'm sure someone would have eventually, so I'm adding it in.
I'm saying it because the whole thing smells like last month's fish. The shot itself, the way it was taken, the convenient killing of the shooter, the timing, it all just makes me doubt this being a genuine attempt on his life. If that's the case, the only conclusion I can draw is that it was an attempt by someone to raise the rabble to cement his worshippers anger.
I could be wrong. I'm not saying this as some kind of statement of unchallengable fact. It's just my gut screaming that there's something hinky going on.
The evidence wholly does not back your case!
If trump was shot in the head, would you still say that it was an op to make the president more popular in the polls he was already leading? But opsie-doodle the marksman failed to correct for the wind that suddenly changed the trajectory by an inch and killed him damning our bid to consolidate power!
Shooting an active shooter to death is the most consistent result of an active shooting. If they wanted to do a false flag assassination, one, their political affiliation would have been established, and, this is critical, WOULD NOT HAVE SHOT ANYWHERE NEAR TRUMPS FUCKING HEAD.
If it was a false flag, the shooter would've been a Biden-supporting Democrat who was also a member of antifa and a trans catgirl.
Not all heroes wear cat tails…
Who said Trump would need to be involved or even aware of such a conspiracy?
Again, not saying I believe this.
Conspiracy theories are always like this. "I'm not saying that it actually happened this way...but what if it did?!?"
I don't know...what if monkeys flew out of my butt?
Totally. Because nothing can ever actually be a conspiracy. As we all know, those don't actually ever exist in real life, right?
The involvement of the US in the civil war that was ongoing in Vietnam began after a false flag attack. A literal conspiracy. And it led to how many dead American soldiers?
But everyone knows Jimmy Carter eliminated all conspiracies from existence (it would later inspire his work eradicating deadly diseases in Africa) in 1978.
Wow, you beat the hell out of that straw man. Good job.
Oh? Then tell me, what's your actual argument? What was the intended implication of the comment you made? Truly curious.
You asked a question about a conspiracy theory, and then followed it up with a disclaimer that you don't necessarily believe in the conspiracy theory. I pointed out that this is typical conspiracy theorist behavior.
Yes and the implication was clear. What you said in the context of the thread was clearly meant to be dismissive. The obvious implication was that anyone who mentions a conspiracy theory is a kook. I'm just taking the logic one step further. It follows from that, that none of the theories ever turn out to be real. Because only idiots ever believe them.
Don't patronize me. We both know what you meant.
I could be convinced of a conspiracy if you gave me some good evidence. Questions aren't evidence, though.
No way anyone hires someone to intentionally shoot their ear off from that distance.
No, they only had to convince some dude to shoot in the crowd to make "noise", then get one of the SS agents pop a bit of food coloring near Trump.
It would be "make it whiz by his head, but don't hit him", but it accidentally hit his ear (or just used an old pro-wrestling trick for the blood).
Not saying I believe this.
Then you have to ask what killed the guy behind Trump.
The shooter was under high stress. He probably didn’t have that many seconds to make the shot before he would be spotted by Secret Service.
According to reports he also used an AR-15, which is not ideal for that kind of range.
Initial reports are saying he was on the roof for several minutes. I'm sure more/better details will come in the following days.
As for the range, 125 yds is WELL within effective range for AR-15s and .223/5.56. Personally, mine is sighted for 220 yd so the ballistic markings are accurate out to 600 yds. There's a nearby 500 yd range that people frequently take their AR-15s to for longer range shooting. This is also considered "medium range" as far as rifles go.
Ehhh, as mid tier as the ar platform is for precision shooting, a decent scope and sighting it in, you aren't going to miss at that range unless you intend to, or you're just a bad shooter.
I acknowledged that the person could just be that incompetent, and the choice of rifle would seem to point to that, but I don't buy it. The timing, when this is far from the first time the target was in public long enough to make an attempt, I just don't believe that this is anything other than a deliberate move to garner support and radicalize his supporters more.
Seriously, I wear bifocals, and I have made shots that were worse than that, with 223. It was not with an ar, but I would argue that the difference is moot since the ar platform can be decent at mid range shooting like that.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree.
He didn't have a scope.
Wait, really? I haven't kept up with everything about it, but I could have sworn it was scoped.
That really does change the difficulty of the shot from middling to holy shit territory.
There is no way this is true. We know live shots were being fired, because other people near Trump were shot. We Know Trump was wounded because we saw pictures of the aftermath. We know that bullets were fired at him, because one of the photographs actually catches one (probably the one that grazed his ear) feet from his head.
A false-flag might be somewhat plausible if there were just shots fired at the rally; it would certainly be possible to convince some mentally unstable MAGA chud to shoot wildly into the crowd, and then have Trump fake his injury. But the idea that he would allow bullets to be fired within feet of him is just insanely risky.
I feel like theorizing if this is fake or not is a waste of time. It doesn't matter.
That was the plan.
I strongly suspect this was a fabricated attempt. It wasn't some kind of impossible shot. Only reasons for it to have failed are an utter lack of ability on the part of the shooter, or it was supposed to miss.
A bad shooter is definitely possible, but it just smacks of an intentional attack made to enrage followers.
You simply won't hire anyone shooting at your ear with live ammunition from that distance.
Exactly. Never put down to conspiracy anything that can equally be explained by incompetence.
And didn't innocent person die too?
I don't at all believe the conspiracy, because of what Tiptopit said about live ammo at that distance. But if one were conspiratorially minded, I doubt the death of one innocent would sway them in the slightest.
The people who would be involved in such an alleged conspiracy would not give two shits about that. Collateral damage.
In fact they probably see it as a plus. Get the folks even more riled up.
No, you hide a razor in your hand and cut your own ear, of course.
I don't know why we're still having this conversation because people made ironic jokes about trump being in the wwe and knowing how to blade. If you listen to the extremely peaked out audio, you can hear the report of the gunshots, which would not be possible with blanks. They have a different sound signature, different sound profile. You can likewise hear the difference in caliber and therefore sound profile when the secret service fires back. This guy fully shot in the direction of the president. There's not really any plausible way this was fake.
Fascinating that you appear to know so much about the sound of gunfire, and yet you don't know the difference between rapport and report.
Totally an expert, just not one who has ever read these words right?
Look up the definitions of both of those words and then get back to me.
Rapport means like, a reputation between two people. report is a word that can have a bunch of different meanings, one of them, as a noun, listed third on google's listed definitions, because I did look it up because I thought I might be wrong when you pointed this out, is "a sudden loud noise of or like an explosion or gunfire.". Me personally, I kind of thought and still perhaps think that it stems from the idea that, you are hearing the report of the gunshot itself, when you hear the sound. Sort of like how thunder is a way to describe the sound of lightning rather than lightning itself. And it's a "report" because it tells you about the thing from which it originated based on the nature of the sound.
So, I dunno, fuck off before you decide to start questioning me on the basis of my misspellings rather than on the basis of my proposed information. Sure, I'm an armchair guy making armchair statements, that's everyone on basically any website on the internet. Go ask for credentials from anyone else making statements about this shit, you probably won't get any. Did you attempt to dispute any of the shit I actually said? Nope, instead you decided to question my ability to distinguish one word from another. Maybe I was using text to speech, maybe I'm ESL, maybe I'm just stupid, who knows, but apparently you were just as easily able to understand what I said so I guess it doesn't really matter in the end, huh? Go ad hominem yourself in the mirror, you costco ball ass removed aaaaand post
Hey guess what, sometimes in the English language a word might have more than one meaning. Crazy concept, I know.
Gunfire doesn't "report" to anyone or anything.
I could copy/paste the Dictionary.com definition of "report" like you did, if that makes this easier for you to understand.
Do you want to give me any real material or are we done here? You have class in like two hours dude you're gonna be late
Is this supposed to be an insult? I graduated from University over a decade ago, so in some ways I kind of wish I did have a class to get to.
You seem like an angry, small person.
And you certainly rely on the assassin shooting at you with blanks and only kill other people?
Come on, work with me here, do I write the fiction all by myself?
Let’s see, you have the handler that hired the chap off him with an AR pistol to “erase the file”. Maybe things got hairy and other people were shot.
And then have the secret service kill the guy behind you?
Finally a writing partner!
Let me guess, you’ve never fired a rifle while amped up on adrenaline. If you had you’d know most shots will miss unless you’re conditioned to the adrenaline response. Shaky hands and near hyperventilation make for horrible shot groups.
125 yards is only an easy shot for a professional shooter who has been exposed to duress to numb that adrenaline response. This was a 20 year old kid who had never been to war.
Way easier shot if you bring a fucking scope
Kid didn’t have a scope on that rifle?
I did not see one on the rifle in the tmz video of him opening fire and getting counter sniped
I've seen other comments saying the same but maybe wait for more official reporting because it was video taken by an attendee on their phone. Not the highest/clearest quality
we'll add that one to the "impulse killing with a truck gun" theory, then
125 is a mid range shot.
Maybe I'm over estimating the ability of the shooter, but not only can I make that kind of shot now, I could at that age. If you can't climb a tree stand and make a clean shot with your heart pumping, you aren't going to even get close to the target anyway.
Adrenaline is a huge factor, I can't deny that. But if it was enough of a factor to foul the shot, that was an incredibly lucky earpiercing.
I dunno, maybe I am just too used to good shooting. My grandfather was a competitive shooter, and he's the one that taught all of us. Most of my family that shoots could make that shot and it wouldn't be anything to brag about at camp.
But the rest of it still smacks of a planned shooting that wasn't supposed to kill trump.
I think "Planned Non-Lethal Shot At POTUS's Head" falls on the wrong side of Occam's Razor.
Bull shit. There is no fucking way it was trumps plan to be shot at. He really didn’t need to stage an assassination attempt just to drum up votes, because HE WAS WINNING. This is q anon levels of dumb
Never said it was trump that planned it
It’s even worse if you suggest that it was a republican conspiracy attempting a false flag assassination attempt to boost ratings. An attempt mind you that was an inch from being a successful, and probably would have lead to a Democratic win with a presidency given a gun and the right to use it next cycle. Again Qanon would and had said such things in the past, and the rest of us called them crazy.
And the instant, “he’s not one of US!, only republicans would think of doing something like that” Is kinda desperate.
Well, I'm not saying it as a democrat for one thing. I'm much further left. Which you didn't say, but I'm sure someone would have eventually, so I'm adding it in.
I'm saying it because the whole thing smells like last month's fish. The shot itself, the way it was taken, the convenient killing of the shooter, the timing, it all just makes me doubt this being a genuine attempt on his life. If that's the case, the only conclusion I can draw is that it was an attempt by someone to raise the rabble to cement his worshippers anger.
I could be wrong. I'm not saying this as some kind of statement of unchallengable fact. It's just my gut screaming that there's something hinky going on.
The evidence wholly does not back your case!
If trump was shot in the head, would you still say that it was an op to make the president more popular in the polls he was already leading? But opsie-doodle the marksman failed to correct for the wind that suddenly changed the trajectory by an inch and killed him damning our bid to consolidate power!
Shooting an active shooter to death is the most consistent result of an active shooting. If they wanted to do a false flag assassination, one, their political affiliation would have been established, and, this is critical, WOULD NOT HAVE SHOT ANYWHERE NEAR TRUMPS FUCKING HEAD.
If it was a false flag, the shooter would've been a Biden-supporting Democrat who was also a member of antifa and a trans catgirl.
Not all heroes wear cat tails…
Who said Trump would need to be involved or even aware of such a conspiracy?
Again, not saying I believe this.
Conspiracy theories are always like this. "I'm not saying that it actually happened this way...but what if it did?!?"
I don't know...what if monkeys flew out of my butt?
Totally. Because nothing can ever actually be a conspiracy. As we all know, those don't actually ever exist in real life, right?
The involvement of the US in the civil war that was ongoing in Vietnam began after a false flag attack. A literal conspiracy. And it led to how many dead American soldiers?
But everyone knows Jimmy Carter eliminated all conspiracies from existence (it would later inspire his work eradicating deadly diseases in Africa) in 1978.
Wow, you beat the hell out of that straw man. Good job.
Oh? Then tell me, what's your actual argument? What was the intended implication of the comment you made? Truly curious.
You asked a question about a conspiracy theory, and then followed it up with a disclaimer that you don't necessarily believe in the conspiracy theory. I pointed out that this is typical conspiracy theorist behavior.
Yes and the implication was clear. What you said in the context of the thread was clearly meant to be dismissive. The obvious implication was that anyone who mentions a conspiracy theory is a kook. I'm just taking the logic one step further. It follows from that, that none of the theories ever turn out to be real. Because only idiots ever believe them.
Don't patronize me. We both know what you meant.
I could be convinced of a conspiracy if you gave me some good evidence. Questions aren't evidence, though.
No way anyone hires someone to intentionally shoot their ear off from that distance.
No, they only had to convince some dude to shoot in the crowd to make "noise", then get one of the SS agents pop a bit of food coloring near Trump.
It would be "make it whiz by his head, but don't hit him", but it accidentally hit his ear (or just used an old pro-wrestling trick for the blood).
Not saying I believe this.
Then you have to ask what killed the guy behind Trump.
The shooter was under high stress. He probably didn’t have that many seconds to make the shot before he would be spotted by Secret Service.
According to reports he also used an AR-15, which is not ideal for that kind of range.
Initial reports are saying he was on the roof for several minutes. I'm sure more/better details will come in the following days.
As for the range, 125 yds is WELL within effective range for AR-15s and .223/5.56. Personally, mine is sighted for 220 yd so the ballistic markings are accurate out to 600 yds. There's a nearby 500 yd range that people frequently take their AR-15s to for longer range shooting. This is also considered "medium range" as far as rifles go.
Ehhh, as mid tier as the ar platform is for precision shooting, a decent scope and sighting it in, you aren't going to miss at that range unless you intend to, or you're just a bad shooter.
I acknowledged that the person could just be that incompetent, and the choice of rifle would seem to point to that, but I don't buy it. The timing, when this is far from the first time the target was in public long enough to make an attempt, I just don't believe that this is anything other than a deliberate move to garner support and radicalize his supporters more.
Seriously, I wear bifocals, and I have made shots that were worse than that, with 223. It was not with an ar, but I would argue that the difference is moot since the ar platform can be decent at mid range shooting like that.
I respect your opinion, I just disagree.
He didn't have a scope.
Wait, really? I haven't kept up with everything about it, but I could have sworn it was scoped.
That really does change the difficulty of the shot from middling to holy shit territory.
There is no way this is true. We know live shots were being fired, because other people near Trump were shot. We Know Trump was wounded because we saw pictures of the aftermath. We know that bullets were fired at him, because one of the photographs actually catches one (probably the one that grazed his ear) feet from his head.
A false-flag might be somewhat plausible if there were just shots fired at the rally; it would certainly be possible to convince some mentally unstable MAGA chud to shoot wildly into the crowd, and then have Trump fake his injury. But the idea that he would allow bullets to be fired within feet of him is just insanely risky.
I feel like theorizing if this is fake or not is a waste of time. It doesn't matter.