Both are good.
Librewolf is more like vanilla Firefox, just configured way better by default.
Mullvad Browser is like a port of the Tor Browser (also based on Firefox) for the clear web (or for use with Mullvad's VPN, or whatever). Also configured very well by default.
Mullvad Browser has better anti fingerprinting stuff built-in but as a result of its unusual configuration some sites might be broken.
Librewolf is kind of the opposite in that regard - sites won't be broken but you'll be easier to fingerprint.
In any case, they both are at the top of the best Firefox variants I'd say.
Librewolf and Torbrowser both include hardening and privacy optimizations.
Kind of separately, but Librewolf, Mull (Android) often take the configs of Torbrowser.
So calling them opposite makes no sense. They may just leave out some settings.
Yeah, they're like 80% the same idea at the very least
The "opposite" was just referring to those 2 aspects - Mullvad has stronger anti-fingerprinting which leads to more breakage. Librewolf has that aspect reversed. Of course, both browsers are similar overall. That's just one detail where they prioritize differently.
I think "reversed" and "opposite" makes no sense here.
Librewolf copies the Torbrowser or Arkenfox patches, maybe adding their own ones, maybe not. Arkenfox is a 1:1 copy of Torbrowser to my knowledge, without using private browsing.
As you dont have Cookie Containers, the "being more private" or "anti fingerprinting" is a very vague statement. If you use your browser for a single website then yes maybe.
TYSM for this info!
Librewolf uses Torbrowser configs, Mull uses the Torbrowser repo and entire config.
Torbrowser always uses the private browsing mode, which is really restrictive. Tabgroups do not work, cookies cannot be saved etc.
This makes MullvadBrowser way worse for daily browsing.
Torbrowser cannot use normal browsing mode, because they want to avoid saving data on the disk. Everything is in RAM.
Great info! Was just noticing this abt mullvad browser earlier today.
Both are good
I like LibreWolf, but I don't like that it wipes cookies and session tokens each time you launch it. I understand why they do it, but it's a consideration outside my threat model, so it just annoys me.
Then just turn those specific settings off?
But then aren't you basically back to Firefox?
No, because Librewolf also adds fingerprint resisting which is stronger than Firefox's and has ublock origin installed by default. It also has the ability to block stuff like WebGL and JS canvases by default
Also, Librewolf strips out telemetry and allows for some good about:config flags to be used via simple toggles in settings
Oh, okay. That is quite a bit different. I guess those QoL tweaks can still be worth it, then!
not really
...do you really think they've spent all this time creating a new browser that just has a setting enabled?
I do genuinely believe that these Firefox forks are mostly pointless rebrands of Firefox to satisfy a small crowd of people who are fine with Firefox but don’t want Firefox or Mozilla branding. Other than branding, they tweak the default config, pre-install ublock origin, and that’s about it. I guess this one exposes some already existing about:config flags in the settings UI. The best part is they are managed by small teams that run a few versions behind Firefox persistently, leaving 0-days unpatched and thus their users vulnerable. Their small userbase also opens their users up to tracking that wouldn’t be possible with larger browsers.
Not true, FF comes with few binary blobs which are removed from Librewolf. Also there are some things disabled entirely at build time, so they are removed from being an option. So it's not just the settings, and it's not plain re-branding. Some distros has gotten it wrong, believing that it's just a matter of settings, but at least on the case of Librewolf and the Tor browser that's not the case.
That hey depend on FF continuous development to exist is true, that doesn't mean they just rebrand.
Tor browser is something else, I don't group it in with stuff like Librewolf.
For librewolf, I just took a look to try and figure out what binary blobs are being talked about. This is the repository I was looking at, I think its the right place: https://codeberg.org/librewolf/source/src/branch/main. There isn't much documentation on the patches besides the file names for the most part, but do you have any idea which of these relates to binary blobs? Or is it in the settings file? Really nothing I see here convinces me that this project is worth anybody's time over regular firefox, it just changes some defaults, disables pocket (they patch it out, but there's already a setting), and changes the branding. I don't disagree with most of their changes, I just don't see the point of maintaining and marketing an entire derivative browser for what could just be a settings hardening guide on a wiki somewhere.
There are several patches under its patches source directory, and there are different sort of packages, one example is the sed patch to avoid including pocket in the build. The DRM widevine is not included either on the build, though it can be installed if you want it installed (probably there's a patch for that somewhere).
But I no longer see removing binary blobs being advertised by Librewolf, it's been a while since I don't check on their site...
I guess I don’t see the point of removing pocket from the build since it can be disabled in a standard Firefox build with a single about:config option. That’s what I do.
No, which is why I added the qualifier "basically," which implies a fundamental sameness while still having technical differences.
In Settings, Privacy & Security, Manage Exceptions, I "Allow" only a handful of sites to store my perma-cookies...so I'm not nagged for user & pw
I don't know why this never occurred to me. This is what I'm going to do from now on.
You can also easily set specific sites' cookies not to be wiped, I use this to have websites I trust to store my data for convenience, but any random tracker-infested blog to forget me as soon as the browser closes!
And also, Mullvad Browser does this by default, as well. I think theirs can't even be configured on a per-site basis.
That's a good idea.
I use Firefox since all distros package it.
Librewolf is Firefox on crack. Mullvad is Librewolf on crack.
Crack cocaine use is nothing to joke about.
It is if you've been to Europe and touched your serotonin the way you thought dopamine was the shit and found out completely otherwise.
What?
Methylone & Mephedrone
Librewolf comes packaged by my distro (GNU Guix) so that's what I use. I'm sure most "privacy" or "hardened" Firefoxes are more or less interchangeable. The only one that's really noteworthy is GNU IceCat, because it's more focused on software-freedom and includes the LibreJS addon, but I switched to Librewolf once it was packaged for Guix.
trust: The biggest trust factor difference to me is, who manages the package and how it is installed. Both are not packaged by my distribution maintainers, therefore I have trust issues with a program that important. However both are available as Flatpak. So I would recommend to install it this way.
updates: Another big factor is how often these are updated, especially security patches. In example for any Firefox based browser, I would not want to wait longer than 1 day before the fork is on the same version as the mainline Firefox.
I personally would prefer LibreWolf over Mullvad, because it is based off Firefox.
I personally would prefer LibreWolf over Mullvad, because it is based off Firefox.
They both are.
LibreWolf ← Firefox
Mullvad ← Tor ← Firefox
Personally I like librewolf.
Just uses the one that works best for you.
They are about the same, ie good.
Honestly at this point, normal firefox with ublock and custom user agent switched to chrome.
The thing is youre telking websites you are using chrome so theyll look at their stats and say "everybody ises chrome, lets just design for chrome "
I know im just tired of stuff breaking on purpose just because of the stupid fingerprinting user agent
Maybe there should be a addon that enables chrome agent only when one visits a chrome dependent website?
You cant twll if some sites need it, unless you try it. I jave never needed a chrome user agent. Only time I needed to change user agent is a fkng website that only let me in if I was on windows. It fidnt care about the browser user agente. It cared for the os user agent.
I've had Mullvad installed for around a year or more. I turn to it from time to time when I wanna keep things separate from my regular browser, like if I'm looking into items on Amazon that I only need once and don't want recommendations to get polluted. For example, I was looking at the price of spinning platter HDs after one failed in a NAS. I don't want Amazon trying to sell me more old-tech drives once I replace it.
Has worked well so far. Haven't tried the other one.
Wait. Mull browser is mullvad browser?
No, mull is a fork of Firefox meant for android and developed by the divestOS team, while mullvad is a completely different fork, only for desktop atm and developed by mullvad (the VPN company)
they both focus on privacy and integrate Tor patches and modify some configs to better resist fingerprinting, but mullvad browser goes a step further with the tor integration, going as far as storing all data in RAM, so it deletes every cookie, history etc on restart. Could be an advantage, could be a disadvantage, up to you
Thanks for such a detailed response. Saw someone commenting it as mull and in thought I relied to them. Once again thanks a lot.
Hardening aside, I like that LibreWolf actually lets you turn on JPEG XL.
How can I do that?
IIRC it might be on by default (tho this would hurt anonymity if you can request JXL files & stock Fx cannot), else open about:config & search for “jxl”. Upstream has kept this flag—toggle on or off—only working in Fx Nightly.
Firefox + Arkenfox ... :P
Using Mullvad as a backup before having to use chromium for any dirty stuff. Librewolf seems to be like a good recommendation for non-technical people. Although I am not sure which browser has less breakage Mullvad or Libre.
Both are good. Librewolf is more like vanilla Firefox, just configured way better by default. Mullvad Browser is like a port of the Tor Browser (also based on Firefox) for the clear web (or for use with Mullvad's VPN, or whatever). Also configured very well by default. Mullvad Browser has better anti fingerprinting stuff built-in but as a result of its unusual configuration some sites might be broken. Librewolf is kind of the opposite in that regard - sites won't be broken but you'll be easier to fingerprint. In any case, they both are at the top of the best Firefox variants I'd say.
Librewolf and Torbrowser both include hardening and privacy optimizations.
Kind of separately, but Librewolf, Mull (Android) often take the configs of Torbrowser.
So calling them opposite makes no sense. They may just leave out some settings.
Yeah, they're like 80% the same idea at the very least
The "opposite" was just referring to those 2 aspects - Mullvad has stronger anti-fingerprinting which leads to more breakage. Librewolf has that aspect reversed. Of course, both browsers are similar overall. That's just one detail where they prioritize differently.
I think "reversed" and "opposite" makes no sense here.
Librewolf copies the Torbrowser or Arkenfox patches, maybe adding their own ones, maybe not. Arkenfox is a 1:1 copy of Torbrowser to my knowledge, without using private browsing.
As you dont have Cookie Containers, the "being more private" or "anti fingerprinting" is a very vague statement. If you use your browser for a single website then yes maybe.
TYSM for this info!
Librewolf uses Torbrowser configs, Mull uses the Torbrowser repo and entire config.
Torbrowser always uses the private browsing mode, which is really restrictive. Tabgroups do not work, cookies cannot be saved etc.
This makes MullvadBrowser way worse for daily browsing.
Torbrowser cannot use normal browsing mode, because they want to avoid saving data on the disk. Everything is in RAM.
Great info! Was just noticing this abt mullvad browser earlier today.
Both are good
I like LibreWolf, but I don't like that it wipes cookies and session tokens each time you launch it. I understand why they do it, but it's a consideration outside my threat model, so it just annoys me.
Then just turn those specific settings off?
But then aren't you basically back to Firefox?
No, because Librewolf also adds fingerprint resisting which is stronger than Firefox's and has ublock origin installed by default. It also has the ability to block stuff like WebGL and JS canvases by default
Also, Librewolf strips out telemetry and allows for some good about:config flags to be used via simple toggles in settings
Oh, okay. That is quite a bit different. I guess those QoL tweaks can still be worth it, then!
not really
...do you really think they've spent all this time creating a new browser that just has a setting enabled?
I do genuinely believe that these Firefox forks are mostly pointless rebrands of Firefox to satisfy a small crowd of people who are fine with Firefox but don’t want Firefox or Mozilla branding. Other than branding, they tweak the default config, pre-install ublock origin, and that’s about it. I guess this one exposes some already existing about:config flags in the settings UI. The best part is they are managed by small teams that run a few versions behind Firefox persistently, leaving 0-days unpatched and thus their users vulnerable. Their small userbase also opens their users up to tracking that wouldn’t be possible with larger browsers.
Not true, FF comes with few binary blobs which are removed from Librewolf. Also there are some things disabled entirely at build time, so they are removed from being an option. So it's not just the settings, and it's not plain re-branding. Some distros has gotten it wrong, believing that it's just a matter of settings, but at least on the case of Librewolf and the Tor browser that's not the case.
That hey depend on FF continuous development to exist is true, that doesn't mean they just rebrand.
Tor browser is something else, I don't group it in with stuff like Librewolf.
For librewolf, I just took a look to try and figure out what binary blobs are being talked about. This is the repository I was looking at, I think its the right place: https://codeberg.org/librewolf/source/src/branch/main. There isn't much documentation on the patches besides the file names for the most part, but do you have any idea which of these relates to binary blobs? Or is it in the settings file? Really nothing I see here convinces me that this project is worth anybody's time over regular firefox, it just changes some defaults, disables pocket (they patch it out, but there's already a setting), and changes the branding. I don't disagree with most of their changes, I just don't see the point of maintaining and marketing an entire derivative browser for what could just be a settings hardening guide on a wiki somewhere.
There are several patches under its patches source directory, and there are different sort of packages, one example is the
sedpatch to avoid includingpocketin the build. The DRM widevine is not included either on the build, though it can be installed if you want it installed (probably there's a patch for that somewhere).But I no longer see removing binary blobs being advertised by Librewolf, it's been a while since I don't check on their site...
I guess I don’t see the point of removing pocket from the build since it can be disabled in a standard Firefox build with a single about:config option. That’s what I do.
No, which is why I added the qualifier "basically," which implies a fundamental sameness while still having technical differences.
😅😂
@Telorand @c0smokram3r
In Settings, Privacy & Security, Manage Exceptions, I "Allow" only a handful of sites to store my perma-cookies...so I'm not nagged for user & pw
I don't know why this never occurred to me. This is what I'm going to do from now on.
You can also easily set specific sites' cookies not to be wiped, I use this to have websites I trust to store my data for convenience, but any random tracker-infested blog to forget me as soon as the browser closes!
And also, Mullvad Browser does this by default, as well. I think theirs can't even be configured on a per-site basis.
That's a good idea.
I use Firefox since all distros package it.
Librewolf is Firefox on crack. Mullvad is Librewolf on crack.
Crack cocaine use is nothing to joke about.
It is if you've been to Europe and touched your serotonin the way you thought dopamine was the shit and found out completely otherwise.
What?
Methylone & Mephedrone
Librewolf comes packaged by my distro (GNU Guix) so that's what I use. I'm sure most "privacy" or "hardened" Firefoxes are more or less interchangeable. The only one that's really noteworthy is GNU IceCat, because it's more focused on software-freedom and includes the LibreJS addon, but I switched to Librewolf once it was packaged for Guix.
I personally would prefer LibreWolf over Mullvad, because it is based off Firefox.
They both are.
Personally I like librewolf.
Just uses the one that works best for you.
They are about the same, ie good.
Honestly at this point, normal firefox with ublock and custom user agent switched to chrome.
The thing is youre telking websites you are using chrome so theyll look at their stats and say "everybody ises chrome, lets just design for chrome "
I know im just tired of stuff breaking on purpose just because of the stupid
fingerprintinguser agentMaybe there should be a addon that enables chrome agent only when one visits a chrome dependent website?
You cant twll if some sites need it, unless you try it. I jave never needed a chrome user agent. Only time I needed to change user agent is a fkng website that only let me in if I was on windows. It fidnt care about the browser user agente. It cared for the os user agent.
I've had Mullvad installed for around a year or more. I turn to it from time to time when I wanna keep things separate from my regular browser, like if I'm looking into items on Amazon that I only need once and don't want recommendations to get polluted. For example, I was looking at the price of spinning platter HDs after one failed in a NAS. I don't want Amazon trying to sell me more old-tech drives once I replace it.
Has worked well so far. Haven't tried the other one.
Wait. Mull browser is mullvad browser?
No, mull is a fork of Firefox meant for android and developed by the divestOS team, while mullvad is a completely different fork, only for desktop atm and developed by mullvad (the VPN company)
they both focus on privacy and integrate Tor patches and modify some configs to better resist fingerprinting, but mullvad browser goes a step further with the tor integration, going as far as storing all data in RAM, so it deletes every cookie, history etc on restart. Could be an advantage, could be a disadvantage, up to you
Thanks for such a detailed response. Saw someone commenting it as mull and in thought I relied to them. Once again thanks a lot.
Hardening aside, I like that LibreWolf actually lets you turn on JPEG XL.
How can I do that?
IIRC it might be on by default (tho this would hurt anonymity if you can request JXL files & stock Fx cannot), else open
about:config& search for “jxl”. Upstream has kept this flag—toggle on or off—only working in Fx Nightly.Firefox + Arkenfox ... :P Using Mullvad as a backup before having to use chromium for any dirty stuff. Librewolf seems to be like a good recommendation for non-technical people. Although I am not sure which browser has less breakage Mullvad or Libre.
@c0smokram3r
https://privacytests.org/
I didn't like the #Mullvad browser. For some reason extensions don't work there, I couldn't add them there from AMO.
adding extensions would alter the fingerprint - removing the ability to blend in with the herd which is the whole goal of mullvad browser.
Sounds like librewolf is for you!
@Tundra Thank you for the clarification. I will consider using it. But why is there no NoScript?
@Tundra That said, the NoScript and uBOs were also unavailable. Why were their icons not on the panel?
Launch your browser.
Right-click on your toolbar to open toolbar settings.
Click on Customize Toolbar.
A new page with a list of items will open that you can drag into the toolbar.
Click on the Add-on and drag it into your toolbar.
@Tundra I did it right away