The Pixelfed guy does good work, but video hosting/streaming is the most difficult use-case to compete in due to infrastructure costs; I'm interested to see how he's planning to handle this and I wish him luck.
Also there is no casino algorithm showing you what big data knows will make you stay for a while.
In TikTok or instagram reels, you don't follow people you like. You just watch stuff happening.
In TikTok or instagram reels, you donāt follow people you like. You just watch stuff happening.
That's actually the whole point of TikTok, what made it different when it started. An app for short videos where you follow people you like is more of a Snapchat competitor, not TikTok.
I think that pixelfed guy has a big problem with commitment, he has so many unfinished/unpolished projects, and he'd be able to do so much more if he wasn't starting something new every other month.
Yeah okay, so it sounds like he's the kind of guy who'll build a framework, or most of it, and won't ever really become capable of hosting a lot of videos at a watchable quality.
Technically he'll probably have built something basically functional the community could rally behind and get going. But that won't happen, because the people who care about the Fediverse are few, insufficiently resourceful, and most importantly don't care about shorts.
Not at all, Pixelfed is very polished and gets regular updates.
he mentioned in the past that the videos will be automatically deleted after some period of time, so that should make the storage situation a little bit more manageable.
How ephemeral.
I can't wait for it to be used for important long term information.
Important long term storage in short video clips?
It seems to be what's popular these days
I think streaming works best where people self host their own media tbf.
Self hosting isn't really compatible with viral content, you do something that blows up and either get the hug of death or go bankrupt from the bandwidth costs.
Maybe the problem in that equation is the expectation of virality and not self hosting?
It doesn't matter if virality is the goal, unless you're suggesting it be actively prevented, virality is just a natural phenomenon of the internet. The term viral generally implies uncontrolled exponential spread. To this day, stuff goes viral without people intending it to.
And if you architect the system to scale a p2p network proportional to virality (ex. as people share it, they also self-host) you run into a ton of security and abuse challenges. We're also stretching the definition of "self-hosting" at this point.
Self hosting isn't really compatible with viral content
The post I was replying to claimed virality and self hosting are at odds with one another because it causes skyrocketing expense. My point was that maybe someone selfhosting a server in the fediverse is not as interested in virality. And I doubt even the most viral posts in the fediverse would break the bank of a selfhoster
And my point was directly in response to your point.
I actually kind of love the idea of a per diem Unknown User Limit. Like the first 5000 unregistered users can view the site, but after that they get dropped at ingress. Also, limit user signups per day (this ain't about growing user base, it's about preventing virality)!
Sure, you could still need an ingress server that can handle a high load to avoid the accidental ddos if word-of-mouth gets out about it, but that's a million times lower of a requirement than a server that can handle serving a web page or app to the same number of users.
Yeah, I actually kinda like the idea of a whole internet where avoiding virality is somehow built into the system. But I think such a system would naturally evolve into a p2p solution. You couldn't stop people from taking and rehosting content on their own servers.
We are talking about a TikTok alternative. If getting as many people as possible to see your stuff isn't your goal, then why would you post it in the first place?
Making your content go viral is pretty much literally the only point.
Virality is nowhere near the only reason for posting videos. People post them to make jokes, teach something, reply to someone else, etc, or all the same reasons someone might make a blogpost or a post on a link aggregator.
There is no such thing as a form of media that is only applicable to a specific scale of use. Long form and short form media is useful to large and small groups.
For example, my partner coaches high school policy debate, which has long form video training content, short form content (30 seconds - 5 minutes) like clips from tournament rounds or practices, for recruitment, and very short form (1 - 30 second) clips that are mostly memes.
Their shorter form content is explicitly meant not to be viral, it's purely for their school, and other kids in their debate league. Most of it's not even parsable by non-debaters. It's only useful to their small community, but that's what they want.
And your partner uploads those videos to TikTok? Because I'm not saying every video on the internet has to be a nine hour video essay that's going be be watched by five devoted people, I'm saying that an alternative to TikTok, which is what we are discussing about here, can never work if you have to self-host those videos because the entire point of the platform is about making viral content.
Obviously self hosting for personal/limited use works, that's how the internet worked for two decades before all of these platforms even existed. Before Youtube and Imgur and Twitter and Tumblr, I had a magazine subscription that came with a free email address and a hosting service with a whopping 50MB of storage, and that was plenty enough.
The short form ones go on insta and tiktok.
It's important to distinguish between why a company offers a service, and what people use the service for. TikTok gets used for lots of content that doesn't go viral, and that doesn't try to chase the algorithm.
Reminds me of the time somebody namedropped a hobbyist's project on prime time national radio in the UK. Their project was a train timetable tracker website, made because the official resource didn't work too well. The site went down nearly instantly š¤£
this is what peertube tries to fix: everyone watching a peertube video (by default) will help server the data to other watching, so instead of the server needing to send all the data the viewers share the load.
I think federated non-profit video platforms won't work on large scale without P2P.
Snapchat would have been easier in that sense
I signed up and never got the verification email. It happened to basically everyone else that signed up too. Weird. Looks like the āofficial launchā was actually the ābeginning of beta testā, weird how they marketed it as an āofficial launchā.
the creator delayed the launch because he had to write the legalese for the service, and on top of that I think he's waiting for the app stores to approve the app (the service isn't available through a browser).
Theres no web app? That seems short sighted. You apparently cant access anything without logging either. I dont expect these shorts to get much viewership if you have to register and download an app to see anything. It also doesnt seem in the spirit of the fediverse
I doubt that. From what he said somewhere on Pixelfed, the beta is only on Android right now and you don't need approval to publish something on the Play Store. From personal experience, apps appear within a couple of minutes. On iOS, the usual approval time would be 3-4 days.
You definitely need approval to publish on the Play Store. It's just more basic
Ah alright, then they must have changed it since I last added a new app. The last few years I just published updates and they all went through almost immediately.
Don't see how he can just upload the apk for people to download
I thought that what he literally called it. Public Beta
Isn't "soft launch" the usual term for this?
no actual product available, lets spam it everywhere. awesome.
hard not to feel like someone isnt countin eggs as chickens here
Canāt wait for federated LinkedIn and indeed next.
Oh no, not sure I want that.
The reason I'm not sure, is because I woke up at 5 am to do my morning run while making cold calls and preparing to open another business because my baby was born 2 hours before and taught me about B2B marketing in AI powered age.
Hmm, they managed to get on techcrunch. Impressive. So many little fediverse projects just don't.
Loops is not yet open sourced, nor has it completed its integration with ActivityPub, the protocol that powers Mastodon, Pixelfed, PeerTube, and other federated apps.
Ah, it's a startup with a hypeman budget that might federate, that's why.
Edit: Although it's by the Pixelfed guy and run by donation?
Hello?
You heard them, you're in charge of video hosting now.
I hope that floating navbar style doesn't become mainstream. Distracting to the point of making me sick.
I don't have TikTok myself but having seen my friends show videos from their screen I think it's absolutely hideous how half of the video is covered with comments and buttons and shit. That would be a total dealbreaker for me.
What's next? Fediverse Amazon?
Just stop š
A decentralized marketplace would honestly be pretty sick as long as they can figure out how to ensure people don't't get scammed
"Sick" as in "slick?" "Good?" (Going to add "clueless oldster" to the description on my BH profile page).
Along the lines of a "Fediverse Amazon", @petrescatraian@libranet.de told me about flohmarkt, which does look interesting. One of its instances can be viewed here.
Sick mean cool or awesome. I guess
One note on "sick" being slang for "good": that particular slang started in the 80s, and some of the younger generation consider it to be old person slang.
So I'm even older than I thought?! š±
IMO we need to break it in a few independent but cooperating decentralized systems;
A transportation service where consumers will request the transportation of goods or people from point A to point B, and providers will make bids for those requests.
A storage service where providers will offer storage of goods at specific locations, and consumers that make requests for the storage.
A LC service, where two parties can enter an letter-of-credit (LC) contract, and providers can guarantee the contract.
If these systems are available, it would be possible to implement additional decentralized services like;
Marketplaces.
Passenger transportation services.
Food delivery.
Probably many more.
Soā¦ doomed?
Why? Is it bad providing alternatives? Especially as it is Fediverse based, which is federated and not controlled by a single company. And being compatible to Fediverse protocol means you can use any application.
Imagine something like Amazon, a central place you go and everyone who federates with it can sell products. I'm not against it.
Fediverse is underpopulated cringe, this place is dead compared to everywhere else I go
I'm fine with it, if its not invasive in privacy and does not collect all the information. And if its a bit better moderated.
This is lovely, even though Iām absolutely not interested.
The Pixelfed guy does good work, but video hosting/streaming is the most difficult use-case to compete in due to infrastructure costs; I'm interested to see how he's planning to handle this and I wish him luck.
Also there is no casino algorithm showing you what big data knows will make you stay for a while.
In TikTok or instagram reels, you don't follow people you like. You just watch stuff happening.
That's actually the whole point of TikTok, what made it different when it started. An app for short videos where you follow people you like is more of a Snapchat competitor, not TikTok.
I think that pixelfed guy has a big problem with commitment, he has so many unfinished/unpolished projects, and he'd be able to do so much more if he wasn't starting something new every other month.
Yeah okay, so it sounds like he's the kind of guy who'll build a framework, or most of it, and won't ever really become capable of hosting a lot of videos at a watchable quality.
Technically he'll probably have built something basically functional the community could rally behind and get going. But that won't happen, because the people who care about the Fediverse are few, insufficiently resourceful, and most importantly don't care about shorts.
Not at all, Pixelfed is very polished and gets regular updates.
he mentioned in the past that the videos will be automatically deleted after some period of time, so that should make the storage situation a little bit more manageable.
How ephemeral.
I can't wait for it to be used for important long term information.
Important long term storage in short video clips?
It seems to be what's popular these days
I think streaming works best where people self host their own media tbf.
Self hosting isn't really compatible with viral content, you do something that blows up and either get the hug of death or go bankrupt from the bandwidth costs.
Maybe the problem in that equation is the expectation of virality and not self hosting?
It doesn't matter if virality is the goal, unless you're suggesting it be actively prevented, virality is just a natural phenomenon of the internet. The term viral generally implies uncontrolled exponential spread. To this day, stuff goes viral without people intending it to.
And if you architect the system to scale a p2p network proportional to virality (ex. as people share it, they also self-host) you run into a ton of security and abuse challenges. We're also stretching the definition of "self-hosting" at this point.
The post I was replying to claimed virality and self hosting are at odds with one another because it causes skyrocketing expense. My point was that maybe someone selfhosting a server in the fediverse is not as interested in virality. And I doubt even the most viral posts in the fediverse would break the bank of a selfhoster
And my point was directly in response to your point.
I actually kind of love the idea of a per diem Unknown User Limit. Like the first 5000 unregistered users can view the site, but after that they get dropped at ingress. Also, limit user signups per day (this ain't about growing user base, it's about preventing virality)!
Sure, you could still need an ingress server that can handle a high load to avoid the accidental ddos if word-of-mouth gets out about it, but that's a million times lower of a requirement than a server that can handle serving a web page or app to the same number of users.
Yeah, I actually kinda like the idea of a whole internet where avoiding virality is somehow built into the system. But I think such a system would naturally evolve into a p2p solution. You couldn't stop people from taking and rehosting content on their own servers.
We are talking about a TikTok alternative. If getting as many people as possible to see your stuff isn't your goal, then why would you post it in the first place?
Making your content go viral is pretty much literally the only point.
Virality is nowhere near the only reason for posting videos. People post them to make jokes, teach something, reply to someone else, etc, or all the same reasons someone might make a blogpost or a post on a link aggregator.
There is no such thing as a form of media that is only applicable to a specific scale of use. Long form and short form media is useful to large and small groups.
For example, my partner coaches high school policy debate, which has long form video training content, short form content (30 seconds - 5 minutes) like clips from tournament rounds or practices, for recruitment, and very short form (1 - 30 second) clips that are mostly memes.
Their shorter form content is explicitly meant not to be viral, it's purely for their school, and other kids in their debate league. Most of it's not even parsable by non-debaters. It's only useful to their small community, but that's what they want.
And your partner uploads those videos to TikTok? Because I'm not saying every video on the internet has to be a nine hour video essay that's going be be watched by five devoted people, I'm saying that an alternative to TikTok, which is what we are discussing about here, can never work if you have to self-host those videos because the entire point of the platform is about making viral content.
Obviously self hosting for personal/limited use works, that's how the internet worked for two decades before all of these platforms even existed. Before Youtube and Imgur and Twitter and Tumblr, I had a magazine subscription that came with a free email address and a hosting service with a whopping 50MB of storage, and that was plenty enough.
The short form ones go on insta and tiktok.
It's important to distinguish between why a company offers a service, and what people use the service for. TikTok gets used for lots of content that doesn't go viral, and that doesn't try to chase the algorithm.
Reminds me of the time somebody namedropped a hobbyist's project on prime time national radio in the UK. Their project was a train timetable tracker website, made because the official resource didn't work too well. The site went down nearly instantly š¤£
this is what peertube tries to fix: everyone watching a peertube video (by default) will help server the data to other watching, so instead of the server needing to send all the data the viewers share the load.
I think federated non-profit video platforms won't work on large scale without P2P.
Snapchat would have been easier in that sense
I signed up and never got the verification email. It happened to basically everyone else that signed up too. Weird. Looks like the āofficial launchā was actually the ābeginning of beta testā, weird how they marketed it as an āofficial launchā.
the creator delayed the launch because he had to write the legalese for the service, and on top of that I think he's waiting for the app stores to approve the app (the service isn't available through a browser).
Theres no web app? That seems short sighted. You apparently cant access anything without logging either. I dont expect these shorts to get much viewership if you have to register and download an app to see anything. It also doesnt seem in the spirit of the fediverse
I doubt that. From what he said somewhere on Pixelfed, the beta is only on Android right now and you don't need approval to publish something on the Play Store. From personal experience, apps appear within a couple of minutes. On iOS, the usual approval time would be 3-4 days.
You definitely need approval to publish on the Play Store. It's just more basic
Ah alright, then they must have changed it since I last added a new app. The last few years I just published updates and they all went through almost immediately.
Don't see how he can just upload the apk for people to download
I thought that what he literally called it. Public Beta
Isn't "soft launch" the usual term for this?
no actual product available, lets spam it everywhere. awesome.
hard not to feel like someone isnt countin eggs as chickens here
Canāt wait for federated LinkedIn and indeed next.
Oh no, not sure I want that.
The reason I'm not sure, is because I woke up at 5 am to do my morning run while making cold calls and preparing to open another business because my baby was born 2 hours before and taught me about B2B marketing in AI powered age.
If you want to hear more, hit me up with a DM!
::: spoiler Tap for spoiler context: !linkedinlunatics@sh.itjust.works for those that don't get the reference. :::
Hmm, they managed to get on techcrunch. Impressive. So many little fediverse projects just don't.
Ah, it's a startup with a hypeman budget that might federate, that's why.
Edit: Although it's by the Pixelfed guy and run by donation?
Hello?
You heard them, you're in charge of video hosting now.
I hope that floating navbar style doesn't become mainstream. Distracting to the point of making me sick.
I don't have TikTok myself but having seen my friends show videos from their screen I think it's absolutely hideous how half of the video is covered with comments and buttons and shit. That would be a total dealbreaker for me.
What's next? Fediverse Amazon?
Just stop š
A decentralized marketplace would honestly be pretty sick as long as they can figure out how to ensure people don't't get scammed
"Sick" as in "slick?" "Good?" (Going to add "clueless oldster" to the description on my BH profile page).
Along the lines of a "Fediverse Amazon", @petrescatraian@libranet.de told me about flohmarkt, which does look interesting. One of its instances can be viewed here.
Sick mean cool or awesome. I guess
One note on "sick" being slang for "good": that particular slang started in the 80s, and some of the younger generation consider it to be old person slang.
So I'm even older than I thought?! š±
IMO we need to break it in a few independent but cooperating decentralized systems;
If these systems are available, it would be possible to implement additional decentralized services like;
Soā¦ doomed?
Why? Is it bad providing alternatives? Especially as it is Fediverse based, which is federated and not controlled by a single company. And being compatible to Fediverse protocol means you can use any application.
Imagine something like Amazon, a central place you go and everyone who federates with it can sell products. I'm not against it.
Fediverse is underpopulated cringe, this place is dead compared to everywhere else I go
I'm fine with it, if its not invasive in privacy and does not collect all the information. And if its a bit better moderated.
This is lovely, even though Iām absolutely not interested.
Suspicious use of ācompetitorā is suspicious.