Their only dignified escape from the conservative nightmare is by their own hand. Nothing good in history has ever come from conservatism. Nothing.
Conservatism is a plague of oppression and death. And the plague is spreading.
What if they don't have the power to topple their oppressors without foreign intervention?
It seems that's the case for Iran.
I agree. A revolution would be a violent and bloody one. I worry it would still be ineffective. Conservatism is like cancer. The treatment is deadly for both the disease and its victim.
Foreign infervention is almost always the worst possible option.
It only makes sense in the case of active mass genocides (think WWII, Cambodia or Serbia). Toppling an oppresive but stable regime through foreign power always ends in destabilisation and even more suffering to the people.
Foreign infervention is almost always the worst possible option.
Agreed.
Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to look at the very long history of foreign attempts at "intervention" in Afghanistan.
The country was left worse than it was after each of those many failed attempts.
Serbia? Serbia (SR Yugoslavia) did a lot of nasty shit, but 99' intervention was not a product of a genocide, let alone a massive one.
Crimes against humanity and war crimes did take place, it said, but "the exactions committed by Milosevic's regime cannot be qualified as criminal acts of genocide, since their purpose was not the destruction of the Albanian ethnic group... but its forceful departure from Kosovo".
Srebreica was a genocide, but was not perpotrated by actual Serbia, if it makes any difference...
Right.
Let me know when these problems get solved doing something I don't suggest.
...wasn't foreign intervention the primary reason why Iran is in this mess in the first place?
That means it's impossible to intervene with positive results.
Is that what you're implying? Just say it, lol. But you won't because you know how stupid it sounds.
Latest: The Taliban have decreed that any woman caught attempting suicide will be put to death.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't some JudeoIslamic factions already punish suicide with death?
Yes. Though it's not really as hypocritical as it seems at first glance.
Assume you view suicide as being punished with eternal torment.
Someone wants to kill themselves, but, if you kill them instead it isn't a mortal sin.
From your moral framework the execution is now a mercy. They no longer suffer, in this life or the next.
Ya know, if you believe in sky daddies and whatnot.
I mean, even without the religious aspect, that might be kinda nice
"We caught you trying to kill yourself through some nasty means, here, have some state sponsored painless nitrogen to breathe"
I mean setting aside the horrible power it would give the gov, it's a really funny image of someone being talked down from suicide by jumping into getting professional suicide help so they can do it easier
I would prefer some therapy first, but I also believe in the right to self termination if that fails, so fair enough.
Suicide, really. That's the last thing you should try. You realize that suicide's a criminal offense. In less enlightened times, they'd have hung you for it.
-- Peter Cook, Bedazzled (1968)
Task failed successfully?
Good reddit humor.
They should kill the men in their lives first
I'm sure some have tried, and succeeded, and I'm sure some have tried and failed.
I'm betting what follows for both situations is making these women take their lives first instead.
What follows is death anyway, might as well make a bit of difference in the process
While I agree, there may be a difference in the level of suffering they'd need to endure before death
Disturbing yes but not entirely surprising. I hope the Taliban get their just dues for what their doing to women soon.
They won't.
By who?
The army that folded in two days after 20 years of time wasted trying to make a horse drink.
West Armies should have armed the women and minorities.
It's the middle east, they're not "minorities" in their own fucking country lol
Armed the women? Certainly would have worked if they'd been willing to fight, probably would have only driven more Afghani army into the Taliban's ranks though. Considering even the non-extremists in the area don't want women equal to men at this point.
Sharia law is the problem, we will never have a functional middle east until religious authoritarianism stops being the actual written law. Problem is most of them are comfortable in their current existence and have no reason to change. Any change we suggest or offer will just be met with "these evil westerners are trying to destroy our faith!"
There are non-Pashtun minorities in Afghanistan.
Trying to preserve an Afghan state was the mistake.
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
Reading comprehension is at an all time low, I swear.
Lol, what?
You must be projecting.
You are incomprehensible. Dude was saying there is no way to help them. Their own army gave up in 2 weeks even after being trained for 2 decades by a professional army.
You came. in and said "don't hold your breathe"... for whatever reason... hold our breathe for what? No one mentioned anything to be waiting for...
Lol, what?
Anyone with a middle-school reading level can understand I was saying "I won't hold my breath for their military to help them out."
"incomprehensible", yeah, if your reading comprehension isn't that great. Sure.
Why would you say that? No one had said that the army was going to help. You saying don't hold your breath for the military to help is the incomprehensible part. Anyone with an elementary school reading level can see that.
Take the L and go home
Because it's true?
Lol, wake me up when these problems get solved doing something I don't suggest.
Omg can you repeat the same statement more please? You repeating yourself over and over in dozens of comments is not you being smart. We already did the intervention thing- it didn't work. Get a fucking education. Literally you would make more sense if you were asleep.
Err... say something different and then I will, lol.
It's not that difficult.
Are you saying because intervention hasn't worked in the past, then it is impossible for it to work in the future? Like there's some universal truth around brown people solving their own problems? What about intervening in Ukraine? Is that okay?
Lol. "Get a fucking education" is real ironic coming from someone who clearly doesn't have a clue about what's going on around them.
Absolutely tragic, but I probably would do the same were I forced to live the life they're forced to with no hope of escape.
Soon it'll be
it kinda already is, look up bacha bazi
This was 100% predictable
To be expected.
Gee, I wonder why... is it because they're treated like property instead of people?
They should focus on leaving the country.
They are being blocked at the border. The Taliban won't let them leave. The ones who got out and participated in interviews (ie the ones we hear about) talk about how their families back home are being harassed, hiding.
Are you shitting me? Damn. I didn't know it was that bad.
Yes because that's the easiest solution for people enduring violent oppression.
"jUsT lEaVe!!11!"
Yep it's that simple. Forget your lives forget your families forget making where you live a better place JUST LEAVE! 🤓
No. I never said anything about anything being easy, lol.
Do you always argue with your own made up arguments?
They should focus on leaving the country
That's literally all you said..
They should focus on leaving the country.
Getting caught trying means lengthy torture, ending either in death or crippling injuries.
And, because women's movements and activities are already horribly controlled, even attempting to run is almost impossible. Getting caught is pretty much guaranteed before they get anywhere near a border.
Their only dignified escape from the conservative nightmare is by their own hand. Nothing good in history has ever come from conservatism. Nothing.
Conservatism is a plague of oppression and death. And the plague is spreading.
What if they don't have the power to topple their oppressors without foreign intervention?
It seems that's the case for Iran.
I agree. A revolution would be a violent and bloody one. I worry it would still be ineffective. Conservatism is like cancer. The treatment is deadly for both the disease and its victim.
Foreign infervention is almost always the worst possible option.
It only makes sense in the case of active mass genocides (think WWII, Cambodia or Serbia). Toppling an oppresive but stable regime through foreign power always ends in destabilisation and even more suffering to the people.
Agreed.
Anyone who suggests otherwise needs to look at the very long history of foreign attempts at "intervention" in Afghanistan.
The country was left worse than it was after each of those many failed attempts.
Serbia? Serbia (SR Yugoslavia) did a lot of nasty shit, but 99' intervention was not a product of a genocide, let alone a massive one.
UN ruling in question, BBC article.
Srebreica was a genocide, but was not perpotrated by actual Serbia, if it makes any difference...
Right.
Let me know when these problems get solved doing something I don't suggest.
...wasn't foreign intervention the primary reason why Iran is in this mess in the first place?
That means it's impossible to intervene with positive results.
Is that what you're implying? Just say it, lol. But you won't because you know how stupid it sounds.
Latest: The Taliban have decreed that any woman caught attempting suicide will be put to death.
Correct me if I'm wrong but don't some JudeoIslamic factions already punish suicide with death?
Yes. Though it's not really as hypocritical as it seems at first glance.
Assume you view suicide as being punished with eternal torment.
Someone wants to kill themselves, but, if you kill them instead it isn't a mortal sin.
From your moral framework the execution is now a mercy. They no longer suffer, in this life or the next.
Ya know, if you believe in sky daddies and whatnot.
I mean, even without the religious aspect, that might be kinda nice
"We caught you trying to kill yourself through some nasty means, here, have some state sponsored painless nitrogen to breathe"
I mean setting aside the horrible power it would give the gov, it's a really funny image of someone being talked down from suicide by jumping into getting professional suicide help so they can do it easier
I would prefer some therapy first, but I also believe in the right to self termination if that fails, so fair enough.
-- Peter Cook, Bedazzled (1968)
Task failed successfully?
Good reddit humor.
They should kill the men in their lives first
I'm sure some have tried, and succeeded, and I'm sure some have tried and failed.
I'm betting what follows for both situations is making these women take their lives first instead.
What follows is death anyway, might as well make a bit of difference in the process
While I agree, there may be a difference in the level of suffering they'd need to endure before death
Disturbing yes but not entirely surprising. I hope the Taliban get their just dues for what their doing to women soon.
They won't.
By who?
The army that folded in two days after 20 years of time wasted trying to make a horse drink.
West Armies should have armed the women and minorities.
It's the middle east, they're not "minorities" in their own fucking country lol
Armed the women? Certainly would have worked if they'd been willing to fight, probably would have only driven more Afghani army into the Taliban's ranks though. Considering even the non-extremists in the area don't want women equal to men at this point.
Sharia law is the problem, we will never have a functional middle east until religious authoritarianism stops being the actual written law. Problem is most of them are comfortable in their current existence and have no reason to change. Any change we suggest or offer will just be met with "these evil westerners are trying to destroy our faith!"
There are non-Pashtun minorities in Afghanistan.
Trying to preserve an Afghan state was the mistake.
I wouldn't hold my breath if I were you.
Reading comprehension is at an all time low, I swear.
Lol, what?
You must be projecting.
You are incomprehensible. Dude was saying there is no way to help them. Their own army gave up in 2 weeks even after being trained for 2 decades by a professional army.
You came. in and said "don't hold your breathe"... for whatever reason... hold our breathe for what? No one mentioned anything to be waiting for...
Lol, what?
Anyone with a middle-school reading level can understand I was saying "I won't hold my breath for their military to help them out."
"incomprehensible", yeah, if your reading comprehension isn't that great. Sure.
Why would you say that? No one had said that the army was going to help. You saying don't hold your breath for the military to help is the incomprehensible part. Anyone with an elementary school reading level can see that.
Take the L and go home
Because it's true?
Lol, wake me up when these problems get solved doing something I don't suggest.
Omg can you repeat the same statement more please? You repeating yourself over and over in dozens of comments is not you being smart. We already did the intervention thing- it didn't work. Get a fucking education. Literally you would make more sense if you were asleep.
Err... say something different and then I will, lol.
It's not that difficult.
Are you saying because intervention hasn't worked in the past, then it is impossible for it to work in the future? Like there's some universal truth around brown people solving their own problems? What about intervening in Ukraine? Is that okay?
Lol. "Get a fucking education" is real ironic coming from someone who clearly doesn't have a clue about what's going on around them.
Hope unfortunately doesn't mean anything in the face of abuse.
You either have power, or you don't.
Yeah. That’s sad. I hope there will be changes. But you’re correct. It’s a sad reality
The only way that will happen is for the women of Afghanistan to receive the same training and equipment as the Ukrainian army are getting.
Absolutely tragic, but I probably would do the same were I forced to live the life they're forced to with no hope of escape.
Soon it'll be
it kinda already is, look up bacha bazi
This was 100% predictable
To be expected.
Gee, I wonder why... is it because they're treated like property instead of people?
They should focus on leaving the country.
They are being blocked at the border. The Taliban won't let them leave. The ones who got out and participated in interviews (ie the ones we hear about) talk about how their families back home are being harassed, hiding.
Are you shitting me? Damn. I didn't know it was that bad.
Yes because that's the easiest solution for people enduring violent oppression.
"jUsT lEaVe!!11!"
Yep it's that simple. Forget your lives forget your families forget making where you live a better place JUST LEAVE! 🤓
No. I never said anything about anything being easy, lol.
Do you always argue with your own made up arguments?
That's literally all you said..
Getting caught trying means lengthy torture, ending either in death or crippling injuries.
And, because women's movements and activities are already horribly controlled, even attempting to run is almost impossible. Getting caught is pretty much guaranteed before they get anywhere near a border.