Personally I don't get the hype with any of these products. Just because they run Linux by default isn't a strong enough selling point when I can get better specs for cheaper elsewhere and install Linux myself.
If one can afford to pay the higher price, then Star Labs' (or System76' etc) laptops will offer far superior Linux support. Modern hardware from non-'Linux-first' vendors have shown causing troubles with 'deep sleep'. Issues like these can and have been resolved on Star Labs' (or System76' etc) devices. Furthermore, they don't only sell 'Linux-laptops', but they also contribute to the upstream of coreboot and other Linux projects. Thus, by buying their laptops, one is actively contributing to that cause.
This. If you've ever bought a laptop and then realized you couldn't use the touchpad or thr WiFi because it wasn't supported in Linux, you'd see the importance of a vendor that explicitly supports linux.
I've also been in charge if buying laptops at work for employee's. After a few devices wouldn't work 100% in Linux, we only bought devices that were explicitly made for Linux. It's not worth the risk of throwing $1k-$3k at a device only to learn later that it's not usable.
I also hear that battery life can be optimised better!
I am not sure about the haptic feedback on the trackpad! I hate it on a phone. It is too jolting!
If it is tap to click that is also aweful - at least on Plasma, as the palm rejection is not very good.
Hopefully it can be turned off and has a physical click.
Have you ever actually tried a haptic touchpad? I have and honestly they are so much better everything else feels like a joke in comparison.
Also no it won't have a physical click, that defeats the purpose. It's also not the same as tap to click, it uses a force sensor.
As I said above, I have only had haptics on the phone - and I disable it!
On a trackpad I want to be the one doing the pushing - not something else!
Why exactly is it better?
How is it not tap to click - force sensor or not? It is not like using a Theramin is it? Your fingers must be touching/tapping the touchpad, no?
On top of that, any bit of interfering palm sensation is a great annoyance that I would rather avoid!
You're passionate about something you don't understand and have never tried.
Tap to click you remove your finger and press it back down to click. That's why it's called tap to click and not press to click.
With haptic touchpads you keep your finger where it is and apply more force. It's a completely different gesture and is very similar to mechanical clicking touchpads.
Why it's better is because it is consistent across the whole touchpad surface versus mechanical typically don't work towards the top of the touchpad. Mechanical touchpads normally feel loose to me and you can't change the actuation force. With a haptic touchpad you can change the actuation force since it's a force sensor with a software defined threshold.
It also doesn't feel anything like phone haptics. It feels more like a press than a vibration like a phone does.
These are also higher quality touchpads in general that have more resolution. Theoretical even better than the Apple force touch devices I have used.
Walk into an Apple store and try one of their devices before you complain again.
Ok, nice!
No, I did not understand, so thanks for your explanation! It makes more sense now!
Yes, true, there is nothing worse that a sloppy, loose touchpad.
Thanks for the detailed response! π
I have been skeptical of haptic trackpads in the past but they feel great on the Steam Deck
Haven't used the deck but I used to love it on the steam controller!
It looks great!
They accept crypto, so in the next big pump I will get one!
Just be careful with this. I bought a $2k laptop with crypto. When it broke and they refunded me in crypto, it was pegged to the fiat amount. So the price slip meant I lost ~$500 on a 100% refund
At that price, i'd just get a dell...
Every time it's the same...
Why not just make a good enough laptop for a cheap price ?
Why not just make a good enough laptop for a cheap price ?
You can have a good laptop or a cheap one, not both.
You are conflating good and powerfull. The basic 1800Β£ one from then isnt even that powerfull. Half price from samsung or something would be the same. It's just not worth it, not by a long shot.
Is it just me, or is the sound the keyboard is making really bothersome? It sounds like awful banging. Can't imagine that being pleasant.
It looks like a typical, modern laptop. There's hardly any ports on it, it uses a non removable lipo battery, and charges with a fragile USB C connector.
I want a big, swapable battery that uses 18650 cells, a robust charging connector, a full set of audio jacks, ethernet, and lots of USB A connectors. USB C connectors don't belong on a laptop unless they are easily replaceable like on the framework laptops.
a robust charging connector
Wtf? Usb-c charging is the best thing that's happened to laptops this decade. You're insane to want to go back to the bad times.
The USB C connectors are way easier to break than a large barrel jack and they wear out faster too. If the USB C port is soldered to the motherboard, then you are in for a very expensive repair.
I used to be in the laptop repair biz. The most common failure mode we saw was the barrel connector. Even ones that were detached from the motherboard like the IBM Thinkpads had.
The Apple mag-connectors are pretty awesome. I've never owned a macbook, but I still think those are the cat's ass.
Yup, got lucky if it was on a daughterboard but I've had dudes donate their broken machines when they got the solder quote.
Honestly, I think that that has less to do with the connector itself and more because the power cord gets yanked.
I'd assume that you could get a similar effect with any connector, USB included. Well, Apple's MagSafe ones maybe not, as that'll just pull the cord away.
and they wear out faster too
The part that wears out is the thing that maintains tension, and that is on the (cheaper, replaceable) cable for USB.
My understanding that this issue was part of why the move away from mini-USB to micro-USB and later USB-C happened. Mini-USB had the tensioning gizmo on the device, rather than on the cable.
Accomplished by moving leaf-spring from the PCB receptacle to plug, the most-stressed part is now on the cable side of the connection. Inexpensive cable bears most wear instead of the Β΅USB device.
Maybe don't treat expensive hardware like it was made by Fisher Price? Why should consumer electronic manufacters cater to the careless at the cost of conveinence?
I've been using my Thinkpad that only charges over usb-c for 5 years now and the port is still like it was new. Can't see why this is an issuse, especially that I used to have issues with some barrel port chargers and needed to replace them. On a contrary I now have charger with a plugin so simple that it's unlikely it will break anytime soon and finding replacement charger is super easy as it is FINALLY a single standard port. I actually have 2 such chargers because of SteamDeck and they both work with both devices.
Even if the connector in my laptop broke, there's second one that I only used few times + replacing it would be easier as it's not a big deal to find fairly standard connector to be resoldered, and with older laptop chargers there are many different variants of proprietary connectors.
I have a Thinkpad that has both the USB C and the traditional Thinkpad charging port.
I normally just use the USB C port, but I do like having both available.
Even if the connector in my laptop broke, thereβs second one that I only used few times
Unless your Thinkpad and mine differ -- and maybe they do, given that mine has both the traditional and USB C charging ports, so a total of two -- only one of the USB C ports can charge the laptop. On mine, both USB C ports can do USB PD, but one is in/out and the other is out only.
I want a big, swapable battery that uses 18650 cells,
I mean, me too. I think that having less than a 100 Wh battery is nuts, but it's essentially impossible to find them.
I think that a couple of things have killed this:
Cost. Cutting battery size is an easy way to cut cost, and it's less-explicit than, say, cutting RAM, as vendors often list a non-standardized "hours of battery life".
USB PD plus external power stations. I think the expectation is that one will get one and having the user just use external ports makes life easier for the vendor and means that they don't need to deal with counterfeit batteries and such. Also moves heat out of the laptop. I would be more sympathetic to this if there were a standard for a laptop to start automatically drawing from an external USB powerstation when its internal battery gets low, rather than requiring manually-triggering charging.
Weight. Apparently some people are super-rabid about laptop weight.
100 Wh is the maximum you're allowed to bring on to an airplane.
Right, which is why I favor the 100Wh battery.
Are you willing to pay several thousand for a mediocre CPU and no dedicated graphics?
Because even then they don't have a chance of making their R&D back.
Personally I don't get the hype with any of these products. Just because they run Linux by default isn't a strong enough selling point when I can get better specs for cheaper elsewhere and install Linux myself.
If one can afford to pay the higher price, then Star Labs' (or System76' etc) laptops will offer far superior Linux support. Modern hardware from non-'Linux-first' vendors have shown causing troubles with 'deep sleep'. Issues like these can and have been resolved on Star Labs' (or System76' etc) devices. Furthermore, they don't only sell 'Linux-laptops', but they also contribute to the upstream of coreboot and other Linux projects. Thus, by buying their laptops, one is actively contributing to that cause.
This. If you've ever bought a laptop and then realized you couldn't use the touchpad or thr WiFi because it wasn't supported in Linux, you'd see the importance of a vendor that explicitly supports linux.
I've also been in charge if buying laptops at work for employee's. After a few devices wouldn't work 100% in Linux, we only bought devices that were explicitly made for Linux. It's not worth the risk of throwing $1k-$3k at a device only to learn later that it's not usable.
I also hear that battery life can be optimised better!
Yup. "Due to how lightweight coreboot is, it will offer better performance and lower power consumption. For example, the LabTop Mk IV combined with coreboot will deliver approximately 8% more performance and around 20% longer battery life (with a record of 13 hours and 42 minutes for general use)."
Wow almost 2k for a laptop? Ok it has actually good specs, but still it's alot.
I checked out the website on my phone and it was a hot mess. Wtf is going on there?
Yeah, that overview page is rough. The specs page worked alright tho.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=8wjfurlQszI
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
Cool! I think 16" laptops are too big, but nice specs. Amd 7040 series is looking great
Removable camera and killswitches? That's pretty sweet!
A little bit pricey π²
Cassidy Glass is aptly named after Cassidy James Blaede's feedback found over here.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s): https://piped.video/watch?v=CiBzY31xlo0&
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source, check me out at GitHub.
I am not sure about the haptic feedback on the trackpad! I hate it on a phone. It is too jolting! If it is tap to click that is also aweful - at least on Plasma, as the palm rejection is not very good. Hopefully it can be turned off and has a physical click.
Have you ever actually tried a haptic touchpad? I have and honestly they are so much better everything else feels like a joke in comparison.
Also no it won't have a physical click, that defeats the purpose. It's also not the same as tap to click, it uses a force sensor.
As I said above, I have only had haptics on the phone - and I disable it! On a trackpad I want to be the one doing the pushing - not something else! Why exactly is it better? How is it not tap to click - force sensor or not? It is not like using a Theramin is it? Your fingers must be touching/tapping the touchpad, no? On top of that, any bit of interfering palm sensation is a great annoyance that I would rather avoid!
You're passionate about something you don't understand and have never tried.
Tap to click you remove your finger and press it back down to click. That's why it's called tap to click and not press to click.
With haptic touchpads you keep your finger where it is and apply more force. It's a completely different gesture and is very similar to mechanical clicking touchpads.
Why it's better is because it is consistent across the whole touchpad surface versus mechanical typically don't work towards the top of the touchpad. Mechanical touchpads normally feel loose to me and you can't change the actuation force. With a haptic touchpad you can change the actuation force since it's a force sensor with a software defined threshold.
It also doesn't feel anything like phone haptics. It feels more like a press than a vibration like a phone does.
These are also higher quality touchpads in general that have more resolution. Theoretical even better than the Apple force touch devices I have used.
Walk into an Apple store and try one of their devices before you complain again.
Ok, nice! No, I did not understand, so thanks for your explanation! It makes more sense now! Yes, true, there is nothing worse that a sloppy, loose touchpad. Thanks for the detailed response! π
I have been skeptical of haptic trackpads in the past but they feel great on the Steam Deck
Haven't used the deck but I used to love it on the steam controller!
It looks great! They accept crypto, so in the next big pump I will get one!
Just be careful with this. I bought a $2k laptop with crypto. When it broke and they refunded me in crypto, it was pegged to the fiat amount. So the price slip meant I lost ~$500 on a 100% refund
At that price, i'd just get a dell...
Every time it's the same...
Why not just make a good enough laptop for a cheap price ?
You can have a good laptop or a cheap one, not both.
You are conflating good and powerfull. The basic 1800Β£ one from then isnt even that powerfull. Half price from samsung or something would be the same. It's just not worth it, not by a long shot.
Is it just me, or is the sound the keyboard is making really bothersome? It sounds like awful banging. Can't imagine that being pleasant.
It looks like a typical, modern laptop. There's hardly any ports on it, it uses a non removable lipo battery, and charges with a fragile USB C connector.
I want a big, swapable battery that uses 18650 cells, a robust charging connector, a full set of audio jacks, ethernet, and lots of USB A connectors. USB C connectors don't belong on a laptop unless they are easily replaceable like on the framework laptops.
Wtf? Usb-c charging is the best thing that's happened to laptops this decade. You're insane to want to go back to the bad times.
The USB C connectors are way easier to break than a large barrel jack and they wear out faster too. If the USB C port is soldered to the motherboard, then you are in for a very expensive repair.
I used to be in the laptop repair biz. The most common failure mode we saw was the barrel connector. Even ones that were detached from the motherboard like the IBM Thinkpads had.
The Apple mag-connectors are pretty awesome. I've never owned a macbook, but I still think those are the cat's ass.
Yup, got lucky if it was on a daughterboard but I've had dudes donate their broken machines when they got the solder quote.
Honestly, I think that that has less to do with the connector itself and more because the power cord gets yanked.
I'd assume that you could get a similar effect with any connector, USB included. Well, Apple's MagSafe ones maybe not, as that'll just pull the cord away.
The part that wears out is the thing that maintains tension, and that is on the (cheaper, replaceable) cable for USB.
My understanding that this issue was part of why the move away from mini-USB to micro-USB and later USB-C happened. Mini-USB had the tensioning gizmo on the device, rather than on the cable.
googles
Yeah.
https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/18552/why-was-mini-usb-deprecated-in-favor-of-micro-usb
Maybe don't treat expensive hardware like it was made by Fisher Price? Why should consumer electronic manufacters cater to the careless at the cost of conveinence?
I've been using my Thinkpad that only charges over usb-c for 5 years now and the port is still like it was new. Can't see why this is an issuse, especially that I used to have issues with some barrel port chargers and needed to replace them. On a contrary I now have charger with a plugin so simple that it's unlikely it will break anytime soon and finding replacement charger is super easy as it is FINALLY a single standard port. I actually have 2 such chargers because of SteamDeck and they both work with both devices. Even if the connector in my laptop broke, there's second one that I only used few times + replacing it would be easier as it's not a big deal to find fairly standard connector to be resoldered, and with older laptop chargers there are many different variants of proprietary connectors.
I have a Thinkpad that has both the USB C and the traditional Thinkpad charging port.
I normally just use the USB C port, but I do like having both available.
Unless your Thinkpad and mine differ -- and maybe they do, given that mine has both the traditional and USB C charging ports, so a total of two -- only one of the USB C ports can charge the laptop. On mine, both USB C ports can do USB PD, but one is in/out and the other is out only.
I mean, me too. I think that having less than a 100 Wh battery is nuts, but it's essentially impossible to find them.
I think that a couple of things have killed this:
Cost. Cutting battery size is an easy way to cut cost, and it's less-explicit than, say, cutting RAM, as vendors often list a non-standardized "hours of battery life".
USB PD plus external power stations. I think the expectation is that one will get one and having the user just use external ports makes life easier for the vendor and means that they don't need to deal with counterfeit batteries and such. Also moves heat out of the laptop. I would be more sympathetic to this if there were a standard for a laptop to start automatically drawing from an external USB powerstation when its internal battery gets low, rather than requiring manually-triggering charging.
Weight. Apparently some people are super-rabid about laptop weight.
100 Wh is the maximum you're allowed to bring on to an airplane.
Right, which is why I favor the 100Wh battery.
Are you willing to pay several thousand for a mediocre CPU and no dedicated graphics?
Because even then they don't have a chance of making their R&D back.