Removed a legal document BECAUSE OF LOW ENGAGEMENT? I can’t even.
That is 100% cokeheads in a board meeting looking for anything that might stick reasoning right there
Gamers have demonstrated the ability to accept and regurgitate absolute nonsense explanations from giant corporations so he probably figured game developers would be the same.
You don't read the ToS of all the services you use 3 times before each time you use them? I'm shocked and appalled./s
Before, in the middle of, and after using it. Have to hit the target of engagement.
Unity: Disappointed to discover denying access to a document with legal standing to the affected parties could have legal implications, and now trying to make up a cover story.
There fixed it for you.
The backpedaling is going full tilt
I wasn't prepared for that. The views. Wow.
We removed it way before the pricing change was announced because the views were so low, not because we didn't want people to see it.
If they actually wanted people to see, it like alluded to here, surely removing it wouldn't be the best way of achieving that.
LOL
We removed it way before the pricing change was announced because the views were so low, not because we didn't want people to see it.
(emphasis theirs)
I don't believe that in the slightest. While yes, they did do that quite a while before the change took place, it was hosted there as an easy way to track changes to the ToS. I bet it was more of a "Any changes we make will stand out a lot more", not realizing that any big change they make was going to stand out regardless (this whole thing being an example).
I mean come on, they could've at least tried with a better lie. I would've gone "Eh, maybe" if they'd said something like "Our legal team suggested that we keep it hosted in a central location, on our website". But really, "not enough people looked at it"?? What a joke.
To be honest, in the face of how dumb that lie would be and how I have come to view stats-based decision-making (where companies favour decisions they can point to some KPI for because it makes them seem scientifically grounded over ones made "just" with human reasoning), I'll invoke Hanlon's Razor and say:
I absolutely think it's possible some middle-manager looked at the view stats and decided they'd look better if they cut some chaff, never mind just what that chaff may be. Protests - if issued ar all - went unheard or unheeded, and the change went through because the numbers told them to make it.
It's awful optics, in any case, but I'm willing to concede it may be dumb coincidence paired with dumb decisions, probably made by someone wholly uninvolved with the pricing change decision, rather than actual dumb malice.
(Doesn't excuse the rest of their bullshit, of course)
Literally no one but legal should have the authority to remove a contract from the website, and allowing any other human being to do so is gross negligence at absolute best.
It should have sent a cascade of giant red flags the second it was touched.
Oh it definitely would be grossly negligent, but the amount of technical systems I've seen that somebody should have a stake in but wasn't actually involved with... well, if Legal's purview ends at writing up those terms, Compliance made sure they're up in an appropriate place and nobody thought to put "make sure they are automatically involved of any change affecting this" on the checklist, all the boxes have been ticked and they won't notice until the fallout starts hitting.
In an ideal world, any change to the master branch of that repo or to the repo itself should require the approval of a technically versed member of Legal/Compliance (or one of each, if they're separate teams). In reality, that approval process may well exist only on paper, with no technical safeguards to enforce it.
I definitely wouldn't completely discount that as a possibility for sure, but Unity sure is bad at damage control (as are most companies that make dumb decisions like this) - even if this is true, it would've been better to just not mention it, as it could only ever just douse fuel onto the already out-of-control PR fire that has erupted due to all of this.
No dispute on that front, it's a dumb move to excuse a dumb move with a dumb excuse at a dumb time where nobody will believe that it was genuinely just dumb instead of malicious. And who knows, I might be totally wrong too.
My giving them this much credit is really just out of (possibly misplaced) idealistic desire to find alternate explanations before jumping right to accusations of malice. I'm not even entirety sure I believe it myself, to be honest.
In other words, they fucked with it while nobody was looking. Totally innocent!
If the great reddit exodus taught me anything, it's that I will happily abandon something I've enjoyed for over 10 years as soon as it becomes obvious how self-centered its goals are.
I swear deleting that account felt like shackles coming off. Any hint of BS now and I'm just cancelling subs and deleting accounts. I've ditched about six services I thought were essential before.
Just to echo what Marc said, we are so sorry for our earlier actions.
We are so sorry you took our earlier actions so poorly.
Genuinely disappointed at how our removal of the ToS has been framed across the internet.
Genuinely disappointed that our removal of the TOS was noticed and publicized across the internet.
This new Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity shipping in 2024 and beyond. And Marc's response is true, you can stay on the terms applicable for the version of Unity you are using as long as you keep using that version.
This new Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity, whereafter we will do everything we can to invalidate prior versions of Unity, and force upgrades on users.
We do have a fireside chat ongoing with Marc where he will answer some Q's live
We do have a fireside chat ongoing with Marc where he will answer whichever Qs live we find convenient to our narrative, and ignore any that are not.
Please forget about our attempted greed, so we can try again in a stealthier manner in the near future, at our earliest convenience.
Marc's response is true, you can stay on the terms applicable for the version of Unity you are using as long as you keep using that version.
Oh shit, our lawyers have just informed us (again, but this time I listened) that trying to change terms of service after they've already been agreed is actually not legal and could get us in trouble.
if you aren't happy with my answer,
whose answer? It’s unprofessional to talk in the first person on a company account without a signature or byline telling you who the speaker is.
What a PR joke.
Words have meaning. If they want to convince people removing the ToS was an honest mistake (almost unbelievable bad timing, but whatever), they shouldn't make a non-apology beginning with "genuinely disappointed" and saying they've been "framed".
Because they get to never say in whom they're disappointed, and I choose to interpret it as "disappointed in all of you people for being meanies and assuming the worst".
That's the thing about breaking trust, you lose the benefit of the doubt on everything else you do, too.
"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." -- Warren Buffett
These absolute morons think everyone else is like them.
lol at choosing to present it in a way that implied there was no way to avoid the retroactive license change (which you explicitly said you wanted to apply retroactively, charging fees based on activity prior to your license change), then blaming the community for interpreting it how you told us it works.
We broke the law you just weren't supposed to see it!
What a piece of shit company. They really think this is how you do business.
Look at the video up near the top of their Xhitter profile. The douchebaggliness of those old white guys explains all of this.
It's not a especially big surprise they are that scummy if you know their CEO (even EA let go of him because he was too greedy for them) but fuck is that another dick move, I am totally sure they didn't do it to hide upcomming changes...
The best PR move for Unity at this point would be to fire their CEO. Preferably out of a cannon.
I thought that earlier response was decent, at the very least it stopped them from sinking any further. This just pushes them further down. They could have just stopped talking about it, but a lousy pathetic excuse like that? There's no hope for them.
Removed a legal document BECAUSE OF LOW ENGAGEMENT? I can’t even.
That is 100% cokeheads in a board meeting looking for anything that might stick reasoning right there
Gamers have demonstrated the ability to accept and regurgitate absolute nonsense explanations from giant corporations so he probably figured game developers would be the same.
You don't read the ToS of all the services you use 3 times before each time you use them? I'm shocked and appalled./s
Before, in the middle of, and after using it. Have to hit the target of engagement.
Unity: Disappointed to discover denying access to a document with legal standing to the affected parties could have legal implications, and now trying to make up a cover story.
There fixed it for you.
The backpedaling is going full tilt
I wasn't prepared for that. The views. Wow.
If they actually wanted people to see, it like alluded to here, surely removing it wouldn't be the best way of achieving that.
LOL
(emphasis theirs)
I don't believe that in the slightest. While yes, they did do that quite a while before the change took place, it was hosted there as an easy way to track changes to the ToS. I bet it was more of a "Any changes we make will stand out a lot more", not realizing that any big change they make was going to stand out regardless (this whole thing being an example).
I mean come on, they could've at least tried with a better lie. I would've gone "Eh, maybe" if they'd said something like "Our legal team suggested that we keep it hosted in a central location, on our website". But really, "not enough people looked at it"?? What a joke.
To be honest, in the face of how dumb that lie would be and how I have come to view stats-based decision-making (where companies favour decisions they can point to some KPI for because it makes them seem scientifically grounded over ones made "just" with human reasoning), I'll invoke Hanlon's Razor and say:
I absolutely think it's possible some middle-manager looked at the view stats and decided they'd look better if they cut some chaff, never mind just what that chaff may be. Protests - if issued ar all - went unheard or unheeded, and the change went through because the numbers told them to make it.
It's awful optics, in any case, but I'm willing to concede it may be dumb coincidence paired with dumb decisions, probably made by someone wholly uninvolved with the pricing change decision, rather than actual dumb malice.
(Doesn't excuse the rest of their bullshit, of course)
Literally no one but legal should have the authority to remove a contract from the website, and allowing any other human being to do so is gross negligence at absolute best.
It should have sent a cascade of giant red flags the second it was touched.
Oh it definitely would be grossly negligent, but the amount of technical systems I've seen that somebody should have a stake in but wasn't actually involved with... well, if Legal's purview ends at writing up those terms, Compliance made sure they're up in an appropriate place and nobody thought to put "make sure they are automatically involved of any change affecting this" on the checklist, all the boxes have been ticked and they won't notice until the fallout starts hitting.
In an ideal world, any change to the master branch of that repo or to the repo itself should require the approval of a technically versed member of Legal/Compliance (or one of each, if they're separate teams). In reality, that approval process may well exist only on paper, with no technical safeguards to enforce it.
I definitely wouldn't completely discount that as a possibility for sure, but Unity sure is bad at damage control (as are most companies that make dumb decisions like this) - even if this is true, it would've been better to just not mention it, as it could only ever just douse fuel onto the already out-of-control PR fire that has erupted due to all of this.
No dispute on that front, it's a dumb move to excuse a dumb move with a dumb excuse at a dumb time where nobody will believe that it was genuinely just dumb instead of malicious. And who knows, I might be totally wrong too.
My giving them this much credit is really just out of (possibly misplaced) idealistic desire to find alternate explanations before jumping right to accusations of malice. I'm not even entirety sure I believe it myself, to be honest.
In other words, they fucked with it while nobody was looking. Totally innocent!
If the great reddit exodus taught me anything, it's that I will happily abandon something I've enjoyed for over 10 years as soon as it becomes obvious how self-centered its goals are.
I swear deleting that account felt like shackles coming off. Any hint of BS now and I'm just cancelling subs and deleting accounts. I've ditched about six services I thought were essential before.
We are so sorry you took our earlier actions so poorly.
Genuinely disappointed that our removal of the TOS was noticed and publicized across the internet.
This new Runtime Fee policy will only apply beginning with the next LTS version of Unity, whereafter we will do everything we can to invalidate prior versions of Unity, and force upgrades on users.
We do have a fireside chat ongoing with Marc where he will answer whichever Qs live we find convenient to our narrative, and ignore any that are not.
Please forget about our attempted greed, so we can try again in a stealthier manner in the near future, at our earliest convenience.
Oh shit, our lawyers have just informed us (again, but this time I listened) that trying to change terms of service after they've already been agreed is actually not legal and could get us in trouble.
whose answer? It’s unprofessional to talk in the first person on a company account without a signature or byline telling you who the speaker is.
What a PR joke.
Words have meaning. If they want to convince people removing the ToS was an honest mistake (almost unbelievable bad timing, but whatever), they shouldn't make a non-apology beginning with "genuinely disappointed" and saying they've been "framed".
Because they get to never say in whom they're disappointed, and I choose to interpret it as "disappointed in all of you people for being meanies and assuming the worst".
That's the thing about breaking trust, you lose the benefit of the doubt on everything else you do, too.
"It takes 20 years to build a reputation and five minutes to ruin it. If you think about that, you'll do things differently." -- Warren Buffett
These absolute morons think everyone else is like them.
lol at choosing to present it in a way that implied there was no way to avoid the retroactive license change (which you explicitly said you wanted to apply retroactively, charging fees based on activity prior to your license change), then blaming the community for interpreting it how you told us it works.
We broke the law you just weren't supposed to see it!
What a piece of shit company. They really think this is how you do business.
Look at the video up near the top of their Xhitter profile. The douchebaggliness of those old white guys explains all of this.
It's not a especially big surprise they are that scummy if you know their CEO (even EA let go of him because he was too greedy for them) but fuck is that another dick move, I am totally sure they didn't do it to hide upcomming changes...
The best PR move for Unity at this point would be to fire their CEO. Preferably out of a cannon.
I thought that earlier response was decent, at the very least it stopped them from sinking any further. This just pushes them further down. They could have just stopped talking about it, but a lousy pathetic excuse like that? There's no hope for them.