An interesting precedent that offers a hint of what Tesla could be up against occurred in 1995 when Toys’R’Us entered the Swedish market and initially refused to sign a collective agreement with the retail union, Handelsanställdas Förbund. The company eventually conceded after three months of labor strife, including a number of solidarity strikes when other unions blocked all deliveries, garbage collection, postal service, bank payments, and other vital parts the firm’s operations. The conflict was even supported by unions in many other countries, who encouraged their members to boycott Toys’R’Us products.
Go Sweden's unions!
Iirc, the company faltered and floundered very badly afterwards. The (now unionized) workers had to say, "it's OK now, we got a contact!", but that message was hard to get out, since it's a lot less sexy than the strife.
They basically wrecked the company, trying to fight the union
They basically wrecked the company, trying to fight the union
Which is exactly how things should go
Oh yeah we're gung-ho about our unions here in Sweden. Go IF Metall, fuck their shit up!
Edit: holy shit, it's for not having a kollektivavtal? Why is anyone even working there? Tesla isn't some mum and dad store, it's owned by the richest cunt in the world. There are specific instances where you can forego having a kollektivavtal, but Tesla definitely isn't one of those companies.
Edit2: So a kollektivavtal, a collective agreement, is generally a collection of agreements that worker unions, employers, and employer unions (like Svenskt Näringsliv) have agreed upon, which covers working conditions for your particular line of work. Things like salary negotiations, savings for retirement, remuneration for travel/extra work/graveyard shifts/on-call duty. Insurances in case you get hurt or sick because of your job. Personal/career development. Extra compensation during parental leave. Wellness allowances. The list goes on.
It's a lot, and it looks different depending on what you work with, and where you work. It ensures that the employee has certain guaranteed rights that should the employer withhold, you have legal recourse (usually the union will assist with this) should you need it. Naturally there's also laws backing workers up, so should there not be a kollektivavtal at your workplace, your employer still can't just break the law.
There's no law codified stating that an employer has to ever raise the employee's salary though, for example, so if you work at a place that doesn't have a kollektivavtal, expect to never see a pay bump.
There are of course situations where a kollektivavtal doesn't make any sense. For example, should you start a company and employ yourself a kollektivavtal is a bit overkill.
My first job lacked a kollektivavtal. It was a nice first step into my career, but it had a decent amount of turnover. Generally unless you have a very specific reason to not have one, not having a kollektivavtal is seen kind of as a red flag. Either you're the world's most trustworthy employer (yeah right) or you're up to some real fucking shady shit.
Haha, my Union!
Makes me proud to pay my dues!
How much are your dues?
I’m part of Unionen, and my dues are 235 a month. I’m also on their a-kassa for an extra 140. Thankfully I’ve not had to do much with either party, but I’m glad they’re there.
For Americans; I’m paying ~250$ a year for union and ~$150 a year for income insurance, should I end up losing my job.
Never actually worked at a place with a collective agreement... But then again AFAIK they aren't that common within software or gamedev...
(Edit: still part of a union though)
Pretty common in software these days. TechSverige being the biggest one. Gamedev tends to fall under "up to shady shit" though, a most lucrative industry that offers shit pay is a load of BS.
How are you in a union that doesn't have a collective bargaining agreement? Like how does that even work?
Technically it does have collective agreements just not with the company I work for.
A union, at least in Sweden, isn't tied to a place of work so me working somewhere they don't have a collective agreement isn't that odd. Now it does mean I don't get as much out of my membership but I still do gain some things. Like if my employer screws me over the union is there to help me and fight for me in court if need be. There are also some extra protections like if there is a layoff the company will need to negotiate and justify why I, or anyone else in my union, should be the one to loose their job.
It's very possible to be in an overarching group. The Netherlands, for example, has two really huge union-federations. You can join them even when they don't have a collective bargaining agreement for your profession. That means you still get legal aid in conflicts with your employer, for example.
Your workplace can choose to have a collective agreement or not. It doesn't affect whether individual employees are unionised or not.
My first workplace did not have a kollektivavtal. Nothing in our contract said anything about negotiating salaries, meaning you might never see a salary increase (I didn't for the three years I worked there, knew someone who worked there seven years and only saw it once), it basically just complied with Swedish worker laws.
I was in a union, because unions are still useful for e.g. personal development, career advice, legal help, etc. You can be self-employed and be in a union, unions can offer assistance and guidance for self-employed people too.
The argument I see against collective agreements here is that they're "inflexible" and "not easy to apply to small companies" but I've yet to ever read a concrete example of this, so my personal belief is that it's utter bunk. Like I mentioned elsewhere, there are times where not having one can sort of make sense; when you're self-employed, and in a scenario where your contract covers all bases you want it to and you're content not having a kollektivavtal. For example, if you have an incredible salary and you don't ever care to negotiate about it (assuming there's no clause in the contract about it)
If it's a normal workplace, you should have a kollektivavtal. It's common sense.
What is kollektivavtal?
Collective agreement.
Technically it's not even necessary to have one in Sweden, but they'll still have to oblige to what the other companies in the sector agrees on, which is why it's also a good reason for a company to participate and get one in the first place.
Basically, companies that don't have collective agreements are sitting at the children's table at the party. Someone as big as Tesla ought to be mature enough to sit with the grown ups. They have no idea of what they're doing in this context and it will end badly for them if they attempt to ignore it.
Elon could decide to act like a toddler, but it'll also mean that Tesla has to fuck off out of the country.
Cool, TIL, thanks for the breakdown!
The US equivalent would be a Collective Bargaining Agreement - the contract between a union and the employer.
Beyond the explanations given, kollektivavtal is the foundation of what is called the Swedish model that is the custom by which companies and unions function in Sweden.
All bigger companies have kollektivavtal, so what Tesla is doing is extremely strange and foreign to Swedish culture.
OP mentioned it so casually, I just assumed I was dumber than usual today.
I realised shortly after posting it, that it might be something people abroad aren't familiar with. So I've amended my comment to include a short description of what a kollektivavtal, a collective agreement is. It differs depending on your line of work, a programmer like me wouldn't have the same agreement that say, a mine worker in Kiruna would have.
In short though, a kollektivavtal opens up a breadth of fundamental workers rights, like the right to negotiate your salary. A workplace not having one is a gigantic red flag.
Yeah, pretending the union doesn't exist is going to help...
It's worked for them so far... I'm excited to see where this leads though!
Tesla is the first company in Swedish history attempting to bring in scabs during a strike.
What's the over/under of Elon blocking Twitter in Sweden?
Most fragile billionaire ever.
He really channeled that little dick energy.
Edit - I love that even though I have so little in life compared to him I do have something that amounts to far more than he ever could hope for. Confidence and people who genuinely love me.
I'm not with the majority of those online. I don't hate the dude. I pity him.
That's a lot of compassion for someone whose hurt and confusion makes him wield the disproportionate amounts of power he has in a disastrous way.
I don't think I “hate” anyone really, but in the case of fragile billionaires, I care more about the people hurt by their actions than them. First priority is to remove them from power, a distant second is to get them some help.
[...] I do have something that amounts to far more than he ever could hope for. Confidence and people who genuinely love me.
I'm relieved and somewhat disappointed that this didn't end as I thought it would
Go Sweden's unions!
Iirc, the company faltered and floundered very badly afterwards. The (now unionized) workers had to say, "it's OK now, we got a contact!", but that message was hard to get out, since it's a lot less sexy than the strife.
They basically wrecked the company, trying to fight the union
Which is exactly how things should go
Oh yeah we're gung-ho about our unions here in Sweden. Go IF Metall, fuck their shit up!
Edit: holy shit, it's for not having a kollektivavtal? Why is anyone even working there? Tesla isn't some mum and dad store, it's owned by the richest cunt in the world. There are specific instances where you can forego having a kollektivavtal, but Tesla definitely isn't one of those companies.
Edit2: So a kollektivavtal, a collective agreement, is generally a collection of agreements that worker unions, employers, and employer unions (like Svenskt Näringsliv) have agreed upon, which covers working conditions for your particular line of work. Things like salary negotiations, savings for retirement, remuneration for travel/extra work/graveyard shifts/on-call duty. Insurances in case you get hurt or sick because of your job. Personal/career development. Extra compensation during parental leave. Wellness allowances. The list goes on.
It's a lot, and it looks different depending on what you work with, and where you work. It ensures that the employee has certain guaranteed rights that should the employer withhold, you have legal recourse (usually the union will assist with this) should you need it. Naturally there's also laws backing workers up, so should there not be a kollektivavtal at your workplace, your employer still can't just break the law.
There's no law codified stating that an employer has to ever raise the employee's salary though, for example, so if you work at a place that doesn't have a kollektivavtal, expect to never see a pay bump.
There are of course situations where a kollektivavtal doesn't make any sense. For example, should you start a company and employ yourself a kollektivavtal is a bit overkill.
My first job lacked a kollektivavtal. It was a nice first step into my career, but it had a decent amount of turnover. Generally unless you have a very specific reason to not have one, not having a kollektivavtal is seen kind of as a red flag. Either you're the world's most trustworthy employer (yeah right) or you're up to some real fucking shady shit.
Haha, my Union!
Makes me proud to pay my dues!
How much are your dues?
I’m part of Unionen, and my dues are 235 a month. I’m also on their a-kassa for an extra 140. Thankfully I’ve not had to do much with either party, but I’m glad they’re there.
For Americans; I’m paying ~250$ a year for union and ~$150 a year for income insurance, should I end up losing my job.
Since you're a Swede you can read up on it here:
https://www.ifmetall.se/globalassets/avdelningar/bohuslan-dal/resurser/dokument/ny-medlem/medlemsavgifter-2023.pdf
1.5% of salary before tax, minimum 230 SEK and maximum 633 SEK as of 2023.
Wow! That's better than the 700+ someone mentioned, but it still feels quite hefty!
Never actually worked at a place with a collective agreement... But then again AFAIK they aren't that common within software or gamedev...
(Edit: still part of a union though)
Pretty common in software these days. TechSverige being the biggest one. Gamedev tends to fall under "up to shady shit" though, a most lucrative industry that offers shit pay is a load of BS.
How are you in a union that doesn't have a collective bargaining agreement? Like how does that even work?
Technically it does have collective agreements just not with the company I work for.
A union, at least in Sweden, isn't tied to a place of work so me working somewhere they don't have a collective agreement isn't that odd. Now it does mean I don't get as much out of my membership but I still do gain some things. Like if my employer screws me over the union is there to help me and fight for me in court if need be. There are also some extra protections like if there is a layoff the company will need to negotiate and justify why I, or anyone else in my union, should be the one to loose their job.
It's very possible to be in an overarching group. The Netherlands, for example, has two really huge union-federations. You can join them even when they don't have a collective bargaining agreement for your profession. That means you still get legal aid in conflicts with your employer, for example.
Your workplace can choose to have a collective agreement or not. It doesn't affect whether individual employees are unionised or not.
My first workplace did not have a kollektivavtal. Nothing in our contract said anything about negotiating salaries, meaning you might never see a salary increase (I didn't for the three years I worked there, knew someone who worked there seven years and only saw it once), it basically just complied with Swedish worker laws.
I was in a union, because unions are still useful for e.g. personal development, career advice, legal help, etc. You can be self-employed and be in a union, unions can offer assistance and guidance for self-employed people too.
The argument I see against collective agreements here is that they're "inflexible" and "not easy to apply to small companies" but I've yet to ever read a concrete example of this, so my personal belief is that it's utter bunk. Like I mentioned elsewhere, there are times where not having one can sort of make sense; when you're self-employed, and in a scenario where your contract covers all bases you want it to and you're content not having a kollektivavtal. For example, if you have an incredible salary and you don't ever care to negotiate about it (assuming there's no clause in the contract about it)
If it's a normal workplace, you should have a kollektivavtal. It's common sense.
What is kollektivavtal?
Collective agreement.
Technically it's not even necessary to have one in Sweden, but they'll still have to oblige to what the other companies in the sector agrees on, which is why it's also a good reason for a company to participate and get one in the first place.
Basically, companies that don't have collective agreements are sitting at the children's table at the party. Someone as big as Tesla ought to be mature enough to sit with the grown ups. They have no idea of what they're doing in this context and it will end badly for them if they attempt to ignore it.
Elon could decide to act like a toddler, but it'll also mean that Tesla has to fuck off out of the country.
Cool, TIL, thanks for the breakdown!
The US equivalent would be a Collective Bargaining Agreement - the contract between a union and the employer.
Beyond the explanations given, kollektivavtal is the foundation of what is called the Swedish model that is the custom by which companies and unions function in Sweden.
All bigger companies have kollektivavtal, so what Tesla is doing is extremely strange and foreign to Swedish culture.
OP mentioned it so casually, I just assumed I was dumber than usual today.
I realised shortly after posting it, that it might be something people abroad aren't familiar with. So I've amended my comment to include a short description of what a kollektivavtal, a collective agreement is. It differs depending on your line of work, a programmer like me wouldn't have the same agreement that say, a mine worker in Kiruna would have.
In short though, a kollektivavtal opens up a breadth of fundamental workers rights, like the right to negotiate your salary. A workplace not having one is a gigantic red flag.
@SturgiesYrFase@lemmy.ml
Thanks for the bit of knowledge, appreciated!
I think it means a collective agreement
Welcome to Europe
Yeah, pretending the union doesn't exist is going to help...
It's worked for them so far... I'm excited to see where this leads though!
Tesla is the first company in Swedish history attempting to bring in scabs during a strike.
What's the over/under of Elon blocking Twitter in Sweden?
Most fragile billionaire ever.
He really channeled that little dick energy.
Edit - I love that even though I have so little in life compared to him I do have something that amounts to far more than he ever could hope for. Confidence and people who genuinely love me.
I'm not with the majority of those online. I don't hate the dude. I pity him.
That's a lot of compassion for someone whose hurt and confusion makes him wield the disproportionate amounts of power he has in a disastrous way.
I don't think I “hate” anyone really, but in the case of fragile billionaires, I care more about the people hurt by their actions than them. First priority is to remove them from power, a distant second is to get them some help.
I'm relieved and somewhat disappointed that this didn't end as I thought it would
Hell yes. Solidarity forever!