Most school shootings aren’t mass killings, study finds, and they’re often driven by community violence
Many Americans think of school shootings as mass casualty events involving an adolescent with an assault-style weapon. But a new study says that most recent school shootings orchestrated by teenagers do not fit that image — and they are often related to community violence.
The study, published Monday in the journal JAMA Pediatrics, analyzed 253 school shootings carried out by 262 adolescents in the US between 1990 and 2016.
It found that these adolescents were responsible for only a handful of mass casualty shootings, defined as those involving four or more gunshot fatalities. About half of the shootings analyzed — 119 — involved at least one death. Among the events, seven killed four or more people.
A majority of the shootings analyzed also involved handguns rather than assault rifles or shotguns, and they were often the result of “interpersonal disputes,” according to the researchers from University of South Carolina and University of Florida.
Jesus Fucking Christ, pick a side, article:
So 70% got it through someone who legally owned the gun already, and 30% bought it illegally. A 16 year old cannot purchase a gun legally.
SURE SEEMS LIKE PEOPLE OWNING A GUN IS A FACTOR, THEN, HUH
If you expect me to secure my guns properly, then that makes it more difficult for me to imagine the totally bitchin' scenario where dozens of armed criminals break into my house and have need to immediately defend my family like John Wick
People are downvoting you, because you called their logical and well thought out plans a fantasy. You are a big meanie to dash their dreams like that.
/s for sarcasm
Even John Wick buried his weapons under concrete in his basement, he could kill you with a pencil though.
We can wait until you figure out the connection as mentioned in your own comment, but we can only wait so long.
and
does not imply those people legally owned the gun already.
I would expect that households who raise children to think violence is acceptable are more likely to disregard the laws.
The "illegal market" you left out implies they were legally owned to me.
Ultimately, it doesn't matter, because it all flows from legal sales anyway. There is no magic gun fairy arming criminals by manifesting firearms out of thin air, only legal gun owners who refuse to responsibly secure their firearms.
Is "community violence" the politically correct terminology for blaming gangs?
Probably. I've been saying it for a while now, the root cause of gun violence in the US is socioeconomic inequality and lack of mental healthcare.
And gang culture. You can grow up in a poorer white/asian area and have less gun related violence than in poor hispanic/black areas. I would link a source but im lazy rn
Then how have other wealthy countries avoided gun violence despite similar inequality and lack of affordable mental health services?
But arguing "cause vs symptom" is a waste of time anyway. Americas gun laws are demonstrably unsuitable for the state of American society today.
Gun laws that didn't put profits and reactionary votes first would massively reduce the damage done by criminals, abusers and terrorists while people spent 50 more years arguing over the problem being Marilyn Manson, violent videogames or not having access to some magical mental healthcare system that can cure "I want to kill people", even in people who don't seek help.
Jeez, imagine having that much data between 1990 and 2016.
The fact that there is enough statistics for this study to happen is fucked up.
So, I read the CNN article and the CNN-linked journal paper it was based on and I don't understand how the CNN aithor, Amanda Musa, was able to read the journal article and jump to her conclusions except through overwhelming prejudice and bias. Holy cow, this is irresponsible reporting. From the journal article itself, here is a relevantbsummary:
Overall, these findings stress the critical public health message concerning the secure storage of firearms, especially in households with adolescents. Our study suggests that initiatives limiting adolescent access to firearms, such as child access prevention laws or efforts to decrease illegal gun trafficking, might effectively prevent school shooting incidents.23,24 Furthermore, hospital-based initiatives centered on screening for firearm accessibility and exposure for inpatients could be fruitful in preventing gun violence, both inside and outside schools.25
Also the demographic statistics in the journal article are information but not informative. They're not meant by the journal article's authors to support the gross conclusion Musa extrapolated from it.
I've been saying this for years now, and everyone just wants to say "GUNS BAD BAN GUNS".
Fix the root issues, and you solve the problem. If you don't address root problems, then you only change the way that the problem manifests. You could remove guns, and then you'd see a rash of stabbings, with calls for parents to lock their kitchen knives in safes, and bans on knives with blades over 2".
Are you saying there are no poor or crazy people in places like England? Because there are plenty of them, they just don't have guns.
I am not. In fact, England (and Australia) both have an overall rate of violent crime--murder, battery, robbery, forcible rape--that's quite comparable to the US. If you remove murder from the equation entirely, then England and Australia appear to have more violent crime than the US. Their crime is less lethal, but they're have more of it. Despite the fact that, e.g. England bans carrying pocket knives for fear of knife crime. But both countries have very similar problems to the US, although Australia seems to have a mostly functional NHS, despite the constant attempts to cut funding. (England's NHS is far, far less functional now than it was.)
If England and Australia were to adjust their system of governance and taxation to address the underlying issues, then it's likely that they'd have far less violent crime.
So you agree that guns are the problem.
He also accidentally admitted that private gun ownership does nothing to prevent violent crime, given that "violent crime rates are comparable" between America and countries that don't let insane death cults write their laws.
He tried to walk it back saying "actually the other countries are worse" but a quick look at the figures show they're all within a few percent for things like rape and assault, until you get to America with its 400% higher homicide rate.
Some of that isn't even well hidden, with "robbery" being included in his list of violent crimes, despite the low number of people killed during property thefts in Australia and the U.K.
Even giving you a free pass on "they'll just do stabbings instead" (despite that not being true anywhere else in the world), that would still be a massive improvement over giving them semi-automatic weapons.
Stabbings are easier to flee, easier to disarm, slower and less lethal. If dogshit gun laws were scrapped after Columbine, easily half as many people would have been killed by domestic terrorists.
So you want to ban checks notes 'interpersonal disputes' ?
How about changing a community's culture so bang-bang shooty-shooty isn't the first response to checks notes disrespect.
Or we could just not have more guns than people, like everywhere else in the rest of the first world. But "fuck you I've got mine" is the unofficial motto of the United States of America after all.
More like fuck you I barley have shit and I'm not giving up my ability to protect myself from anyone that might be coming for it.
Killing someone to prevent them from stealing your stuff may well land you in prison. Guns cause a lot of misery in this country.
I get it btw. But still. I think we'd all be better off with fewer guns :\
Get what? That if you can't fight and don't own a gun then you're at the mercy of the police you hate to protect you?
I've lived in a few different countries, and they have many of the same problems as the US, but there's of course far fewer guns, and those places are safer. That difference in safety is really palpable.
Without all these guns, and the associated culture of violence and fear, perhaps American policing in general would be less violent. It's something I've wondered about.
I am sympathetic to the desire for self-defense, arms as a safeguard against tyranny, etc. But I personally don't think it's worth this.
So it's a complex issue, but I don't think the 2A is a net positive. At least not anymore.
Really? What nations are as polarizing as the US? Seems to me the vast majority of nations that aren't as violent as the US are not nearly as diverse or suffer from the same extent of wealth inequality.
Sweden, even with its anti-gun laws, has become the most dangerous scandinavian country by a longshot because they're now dealing with racial problems the US has had to face for generations.
Plenty of diversity and wealth inequality problems in Europe. Just look up the stats if you're really interested.
And these issues are noticeable as you say in Sweden for example. And in Germany, and France, and Spain, etc.
But I don't see how proliferating guns in Europe would help make these places safer. I would imagine letting everyone have guns would see Sweden's murder rate go up. Maybe another 5x to 10x and it would reach US per capita levels. Progress?
Sweden's problems aren't the same as Germany or France.
That's because you're ignoring all the nations who have outlawed guns yet have worse gun violence than the US because of their culture. You cherrypick evidence to support your agenda and ignore evidence that goes against it.
Some would call that 'biased,' but that would make them a rational person.
You know what never mind, you seem to think guns in the US are generally a good thing and think they're generally bad. We'll probably never agree. Hope you never have to use your guns mate.
I should probably clarify that I don't actually own a gun. My previous comment is just the attitude I typically see from people who do. I don't live in an area with a high crime rate that would necessitate one and I'd be far more likely to use it on myself before I was ever in a self defense situation. That being said if I still lived in the town I grew up where there were break ins every few weeks many of which included assaults I would have one for sure.
It's never worked in the past; but so much of America's culture is predicated on winning the lottery, so sure you go ahead.
That's objectively false, but you're too far down your tribalistic rabbit hole to understand that.
No, I want to change community circumstances so that interpersonal disputes don't lead to violence.
In most cases, people that aren't living in pretty desperate circumstances aren't turning to lethal violence as the first, best option for solving problems. People that feel like they have options don't immediately jump there.
Do you believe poor people in the US are more desperate than in the rest of the world?
That's a false dichotomy, and not even the correct answer to ask.
In countries with higher rates of poverty, you do, in fact, see far, far higher rates of murder and violence (robbery, battery, forcible rape) in general. Official tallies may not reflect those levels of violence, since there's often indifference or incompetence from local government.
Of western countries, the US has one of, if not the highest rates of economic inequality. And yes, that's going to lead to violence when you have poor people that have no practical way to not only get ahead, but merely stay even.
Sounds like a lie to me. Semi-automatic handguns are absolutely the fastest, most lethal and most common way to turn interpersonal disputes and property crimes into murder.
You can't genuinely be looking to reduce these murders if you're unwilling to change gun laws. It wouldn't just require 100 years of work to solve inequality, it would require literal mind control.
Even if you pulled it off, there is still all the other motives you're handwaving away, like domestic abusers and "responsible gun owners" answering their doorbells by opening fire.
It doesn't take mind control, because once you change external circumstances, people tend to change their minds on their own without being forced into re-education camps, or going through cult programming.
Changing social conditions also reduces domestic violence. People that aren't afraid of random crime--most of which is bullshit ginned up by Fox, OAN, etc.--don't start blasting the second someone knocks on their door.
Sure, semi-automatic handguns are the fastest, easiest, most readily concealed way now to to turn arguments into murders, but you know what happens when you take the guns and don't fix all the other shit? People start stabbing each other. Then you have to start trying to take all the knives. Then the clubs. Then bottles, and bricks, and hammers, and screwdrivers. You're never going to be able to take all of the tools that people use to commit murder, because "bare hands" account for something like 5% of all homicides in the US (unless you're proposing preemptive amputation?) Fix the underlying problems, and most of that violence--the violence that turns into murder--ends up going away on it's own.
Even giving you a free pass on that actually being true, stabbings are both easier to flee and less lethal. It would be a genuine improvement
Isn't it just fascinating that this slippery slope always starts at "guns"?
Somehow, it's impossible to stop at "lets not sell guns to idiots and psychopaths" like sane people. Once we start down that road, we have to just keep banning more and more things forever, despite the fact none of those things are covered by the second amendment and could be banned right now if we actually wanted to.
You may as well be claiming "Driving under the influence? What next? Driving sober? Bikes? Horses? Legs?".
Meanwhile, guns account for 81% of those homicides because they're more lethal, in less time, with less chance of escaping or being interrupted.
Most of the guns used in those homicides are legally purchased, but that's mostly academic given that 99% of guns used in crimes were originally legally purchased from dealers, pawnbrokers or manufacturers, clearly demonstrating that the background checks and storage laws are not even remotely adequate.
You keep accidentally admitting how much better things would be if Americas had gun laws in line with the rest of the world, instead of pretending every murder is inevitable like you wanted.
Sure. Let us know when you're done building that utopia so we can look at actual crime stats that actually exist, rather than fantasy statistics that the pro-gun community insists will come true eventually.
Until then, why do you staunchly oppose measures designed to reduce the number of murderers armed with the tools you openly admit are best-in-class for murder?
First: Yes, that is the way things work. We've seen that happen in other countries. Moving outside of guns specifically, that's happened with abortion rights; first it was just some abortions, then all of them (depending on the state), then the right to travel to another state, now they're working on banning birth control and overturning no-fault divorce.
Second: No, 2A doesn't specify guns, it says arms. So if you wanted to ban knives and swords because they're arms, then there's a 2A argument against it.
That's not the argument you think it is. Yes, people use the best tool that they have available. If that tool magically didn't exist--and there are more guns than people in the US--then people would switch to a different tool, and you'd be talking about how people used X because it's better than Y, and so we need to ban X.
People in other countries have these same debates, trying to create ever stricter security measures to prevent crimes, even though they have far, far lower rates or murder. The argument is that there needs to be ever more invasive gov't control, because that's the only way to make people feel safe and secure.
Much like your utopia where guns don't exist?
Why do you resist the social changes that would reduce violence across the board, and not just one specific subset using one tool? Why do you want society to stay sick while eliminating a single manifestation of that sickness?
Why didn't the pro-gun community stop it? Aren't you claiming right now that guns are required to stop rights being eroded?
Yes, I want people to have worse tools for killing innocent people. You're openly admitting it would would be an improvement.
Sure thing. I assume its also fine for me to extrapolate your views out forever and claim your goal is to legalise hand grenades, claymores and rocket launchers for all Americans, including felons, as the first step to eventually making WMDs cheap and freely available to everyone and the only way to prevent that is to immediately ban all private gun sales.
Of course, those might be your actual views since they're not uncommon in the pro-gun community, unlike the mythical gun control advocates who start with "lets not sell guns to people who have been making death threats" and don't stop until they've banned hammers.
How dare people try and prevent preventable deaths. What scumbags.
I wonder why they have "far, far lower rates for murder" since obviously the only way to truly be safe is the cold embrace of an AR-15.
Did you forget the rest of the world exists and has gun control? They even change their gun laws over time in response to changing circumstances, rather than just ask slavers with wooden teeth their thoughts then vow to use that forever.
Sure, you could have tried your luck with that when the pro-gun crowd was blaming dumb shit like video games, rock music and the number of doors a building had, but what are you suggesting I oppose now?
I support increased access to mental health services, universal healthcare and massively reducing wealth inequality. This has been my consistent opinion for over 25 years, before doing mass shootings with your legal guns became a fad among the far-right.
But I'm never going to support maximizing the damage that criminals, abusers, idiots and domestic terrorists can do just because there might be less of them in 50 years, especially in return for bullshit promises about rights, democracy and personal safety that are less true in America than in countries with gun control.
You're missing the point, intentionally. The erosion of rights is the point; for the right wing, it's the erosion of reproductive rights (and eventually the rights of women in general). For the people that believe they're on the left, it's gun rights, and eventually all rights to the tools of violence.
Which is also worse tools for defending themselves. So, again, not a win.
Yes. That's correct. Private citizens could quite legally have artillery under the interpretation of the constitution that existed until 1934, when the National Firearms Act made it through judicial review due to prosecutorial malfeasance. And yes, I think that most felons should be allowed to be armed, because the law is structured in such a way that even non-violent felons have their rights stripped from them.
Okay, so you're saying that there is no amount of evidence that would ever change your mind. Is that correct? So even if I could show you that other countries that have high levels of personal firearm ownership don't see violence rates like the US does, you wouldn't see that as relevant, because it doesn't involve removing guns. Do I have that about right?
It's a promise gun owners make, that you give them a free pass on, despite them clearly never delivering on it, which is a common theme through all your arguments.
Starting immediately with...
If guns made people safer, America should be the safest country in the world by a huge margin, not shrugging off mass shootings every month
So why is the crime rate in America practically identical to countries with gun control, except that America's homicide rate is 400% higher?
Why do these "defensive gun uses" only appear when you ask gun owners how often they've experienced them and never in any kind of statistics?
To put it bluntly, Americas gun laws disproportionately help assholes be assholes -- something that does show up in statistics.
But "responsible gun owners" rush to be their useful idiots anyway, deliberately oblivious to who they're actually helping but demanding to be looked upon as heroes anyway.
Imagine you wanted to donate to the Democrats, but for $1 donated, it was mandatory to donate $4 to Republicans.
Would you rush to social media as Republicans won over and over again, insisting it wasn't your fault, you were only helping the Democrats?
Would you advocate people donated every dollar they could to the Dems and then shame them when their candidate lost?
If the Dems won 3 out of every 100 elections, would you claim it was because the laws around donations were the best in the world?
Don't worry, you're not actually shocking me with that response, I just wanted you to say that idiocy out loud.
It's important that people know that supporting the pro-gun community is supporting elevating the far-right from mass shooters in to a homegrown Hamas.
"Well it doesn't matter what you think, because its been ruled constituational".
You don't get to make that argument for guns and then handwave it away when you don't like it.
The evidence I've been waiting 25 years for? Sure, you could change my mind with it, but if you actually had it, you wouldn't be desperately latching on to semantics to try and make me sound unreasonable.
Sure, you can do the "b-b-but Switzerland" thing if you want to, but I'll just point out what their actual laws are, so you probably shouldn't unless you support gun control measures like:
Some of them, you've already openly opposed, such as prohibiting grenades and artillery.
Others, the pro-gun community actively opposes, such as safe storage and denying guns to domestic abusers.
But if you want to replace America's gun laws with Switzerland's, I'm happy to officially congratulate you on becoming a gun-control advocate.
Nope, but it gave you the premise you needed to push misinformation, which is all you were really interested in.
Which is not what I said, but okay.
How about, ALL of my trans friends, and the overwhelming majority of my gay friends are armed, because they've got people that will happily murder them in the streets with their base hands, and cops will not give a fuck?
How about the women I know that have had to get restraining orders against violent and abusive ex-husbands and boyfriends, and got armed and trained because cops do not give a fuck until his hands are around her neck?
How about the people threatened like my nephew that were threatened by a gang because he was a witness to a murder, and was compelled to testify in court? (He ended up having to move, because, again, cops did not give a fuck. And no, there was no "witness protection"; it was either show up and testify, or be jailed on contempt and perjury.)
America has a violence problem, period. It's not a gun problem, it's a violence problem. You want to make shit safe? Fix the conditions that cause the violence.
To rephrase that, why are you concerned only with affecting murder, rather than affecting ALL violent crime? If you reduce all violent crime by correcting underlying conditions, then murder decreases along with everything else. So, why the focus on a single issue?
... Why do people only drown at home when they have bathtubs, and not people that just have showers? Your question is nonsensical. Defensive gun use only shows up when you ask gun owners because non-gun owners don't have guns to use defensively. (And, BTW, since you are familiar with DGU, you know that conservative estimates are around 1.5M per year in the US.)
My local gun store has a cannon for sale. It can be yours for just $5000. I think it's 4"--but don't quote me on that--and it's a smoothbore, so you can absolutely use it for grapeshot if that's your desire. Of course, it's going to take you about a minute and a half to load if you've practiced, so maybe don't miss with that first shot? Oh, and you're going to want a spotter to help you aim, and you'll need to find a way to tow it around, since it weight a couple thousand pounds.
...With a cannon that takes a crew of four people to operate effectively, and has a range less than a decent bolt action rifle? 'Kay.
Gun control laws, sure. Since those are almost always intended to and disproportionately affect minority groups. Like Reagan passing gun control laws in California because the Black Panthers were policing the police. Or Georgia denying MLK Jr. a carry permit. Or D.C.'s gun ban. (Fun reading for you: This Nonviolent Stuff'll Get You Killed: How Guns Made the Civil Rights Movement Possible, by Charles E. Cobb
(You missed Finland, which is likely more heavily armed than the Swiss.)
But, again, roughly similar rates of gun ownership.
Vastly lower rates of violent crime. Not even gun crime, violent crime.
Because--as you notes previously--many guns used in crimes in the US were legally purchased. So there's no good reason to believe that a Swiss person couldn't easily jump through the hoops to get an SIG 550 (or use their military-issued rifle, and the military-issued ammunition) to commit a mass murder. But you simply don't see that. You don't see that in Finland either. You don't see much violent crime in either country, with or without guns. In the UK and Australia, you see a lot of violent crime.
Safe storage laws. Dear god. If the state subsidizes the cost of storage, sure, I'm fine with that. But gun "safes" are a fuckin' joke. There's a lot to unpack, but there's no country I'm aware of that requires firearms to be stored in a container that would be considered a burglary-resistant safe. RSC-1 is the standard for a gun "safe" under storage laws in the US (it actually exceeds most requirements), and the UL RSC-1 standard only requires that a container resist attack for 5 min with hammers not more than 2#, and a pry bar not longer than 12".
No one is arguing that people convicted of a domestic violence offense should be allowed to be armed. (Okay, I'm sure some people are. No one that I know of is making that argument.) Convicted is the key term here. As it stands, an accusation is sufficient; if you have a restraining order, you may not own a firearm. That's not the same thing as a conviction; you are not provided with an attorney, there is no investigation done by outside parties. The process has far, far looser rules than any criminal proceeding.
What evidence would you accept? I have already demonstrated that countries without any realistic path to gun ownership can still have very high violent crime rates, even if the murder rates are lower. I've also demonstrated that countries with high rates of individual gun ownership--including military arms--do not necessarily have high rates of violent crime (including murder). So it's clear that the firearms by themselves do not cause the crime, but are only the tools used.
What you're trying to do is "cure" pneumonia with a cough suppressant, and hoping that the underlying pneumonia goes away on it's own once you stop coughing. That's dumb. Even if you took all the guns in the US, you're not going to fix the violence, the gangs, the domestic abuse, the rape, or even the suicides.
And yeah, conservatives oppose fixing all that shit too. So, good on you for agreeing with Republicans on that, I guess?
Except for all the murders you just acknowledged were lower with gun control, because guns escalate arguments and crimes into homicides since there's no better tool for quickly and reliably killing someone.
I sure hope you're not a doctor, because treating symptoms is exactly what they do until the underlying cause is discovered and addressed. If it can't be cured, managing symptoms is literally their entire focus.
Not in your hospital though. Turn up with a broken arm? "Sorry, pain is just a symptom so we can't give you anything for it. We also don't think the bone sticking out of your arm is the actual cause, so we're not going to address it until you've had 6 months of chemotherapy and undergone a colectomy because cancer can cause pain too. We're not actually going to perform those proceedures, but if someone else does, come back and see us so we can give you new excuses".
No, it wont. It will reduce the lethality and frequency of every single one of those things instead -- an improvement you oppose.
You seem to be confused again. Name every single moral, effective change you can think of to reduce violence and crime and I'll openly support every one of them. Universal healthcare, addressing wealth inequality, improving education? No problem. You can even raise my taxes to help fund them.
Then when you're all out of ideas, I will say "Gun control is another moral, effective way to reduce the amount and severity of crime and violence" and you'll throw a fit about "not that one, we will kill you if you try and implement that one".
Your views on that one issue align perfectly with both Republicans and the gun-lobby that donates $16 million each year to them -- money you give them.
It's literally the next argument you make.
But they don't use their bare hands, they use the guns you demand they are sold, significantly increasing the chances of your friends being killed.
Violent, abusive partners that you also demand are sold guns, despite domestic abuse being one of the strongest predictors of homicide.
What about him? 99% of guns used in crimes were either legally sold to the criminal, or sold to a "responsible gun owner" that failed to secure the weapons and promptly had them stolen.
The laws you're leaping to the defense of armed the murderer, the people who threatened him and from the sound of it, guns only made his life significantly worse.
I'm not even sure how you think you'd solve this in your gun utopia. If your nephew was a child at the time, they wouldn't be eligible to carry a handgun with them at all times. If they did have a gun, your expectation seems to be that he could have murdered the criminal back, which would have only made the trauma, threats and court appearances even worse.
If you didn't make all these people up, it's clear you're just using them as props. It's genuinely surreal that you could have at least 7 people in your life that you ostensibly love, all of whom have been the target of violence, yet you support their abusers and oppressors buying handguns and semi-automatic rifles.
Nobody advocating gun control thinks it will end all forms of violence, nor do they oppose other forms of violence reduction.
They oppose supplying violent people the tools they use to maximise their violence, with near-zero consideration of the risk that poses to innocent people.
They ask themselves "How many people would have died at Pulse nightclub if the killer only had a bolt-action? What about if he only had a knife? What about if we lost our minds and let the pro-gun community pick up a 6 pack of hand grenades like many of them openly support?".
But the pro-gun community doesn't. They just say "49 killed and 53 wounded is fine. 61 dead and 400 injured is fine. 21 children mutilated beyond recognition is fine. 3 women a day is fine", because none of those people matter as much to them as their guns do.
Which violent crimes am I blocking reduction efforts for? I will support any moral and demonstably effective method of reducing violent crime of any sort. The current gun laws meet neither of those requirements.
I'm focusing on a single issue because that's the issue we're discussing, not because it's the only one I support.
Because showers have a near zero drowning risk and bathtubs don't. Beaches and swimming pools have a higher drowning risk still, which is why we have systems in place to mitigate those dangers through lifeguards.
If you think this simple concept is "nonsensical", we've probably isolated why you think gun laws are perfect just the way they are -- you're completely unable to identify different risk levels, even when they're extremely obvious.
Which would have been a great point if I'd suffered a traumatic brain injury and actually asked "why don't people without guns use their guns defensively".
Defensive gun use must inherently prevent a crime and the pro-gun community has been completely unable to demonstrate this crime reduction statistically.
Only 8% of firearm researchers agreed that 'In the United States, guns are used in self-defense far more often than they are used in crime
Which is roughly the number of violent crimes reported in America each year. You'd think if 50% of all violent crimes were prevented by guns, that would be trivial to prove.
Instead, we end up with figures that say things like "only 3% of all mass shootings are ended by a good guy with a gun".
Congratulations, you've accidentally realized that different weaponry comes with different risks to the public and that those risks are significantly reduced when weapons are less portable, lower range and have a lower rate of fire.
But of course, your little story about cannons doesn't actually represent your views on guns, otherwise you'd oppose handguns and semi-automatic weapons, aligning your opinions with the most widespread gun control laws across the globe.
You said "artillery". Should we go through different forms of artillery and you can either say "Yes, I support anyone who can pass a background check owning that with no training or safety requirements" or "actually it turns out I'm not an arms absolutist after all and some weaponry isn't worth the social risk"?
So now that those racist laws are gone, there's no more race problems right? All the Black Panthers are living happily ever after and definitely weren't executed by the state, guns or no guns.
Because it sure seems like your guns didn't fix shit for them.
Police still execute them in the street and if they had a gun on them, there isn't even an investigation. Hell, if they fired at the police, those police would probably get a medal for killing them.
But if you know the magic proceedure to follow to stop police brutality using cool guns, I'm all ears. You're a black man, you've been stopped by police, you have a legal firearm in your pants. When do you start blasting?
Be specific, because the lives of people you don't give a shit about are on the line.
Once you've sorted that, you can explain how selling guns to neo-nazis with a history of domestic violence helps them.
Here's their gun laws.
What a surprise, they require gun licenses which won't be granted for self-defense, guns that are not appropriate for their stated purpose or applicants with a history of mental health issues, violence or substance abuse.
All of that is gun control, which the pro-gun community opposes.
Fortunately, the people of Finland don't. So after a two school shootings using pistols, police were grilled about why the gun licenses were issued, then legislation was updated to require two years of active, documented hobby shooting before being issued a pistol license, as well as being over the age of 20.
Crazy. It's almost like those "hoops" filter out mass murderers.
Nah. You want to be a "responsible gun owner", so its time for you to take responsibility.
You shouldn't have any trouble finding countries that would revoke the gun license -- if not criminally charge -- anyone found keeping a handgun in a glovebox or sock drawer and an AR-15 in a closet.
Millions of Americans do, and it sounds like you're among them. It sure seems like "responsible gun owners" hate the thought of that responsibility being mandatory.
The pro-gun lobby are, and they're both funded by you and representing you.
Did you tell all those "women you know" at the top of your comment that you still support their ex-partners owning firearm, even though they have a restraining order? Did they ever speak to you again? Because I certainly wouldn't if someone told me "I'd rather risk your murder than risk temporarily depriving an innocent person of an inanimate object".
Yes, you have demonstrated that countries with gun control have lower murder rates (which is exactly my point) despite still having other crime (which I never claimed gun control would eliminate).
How, exactly, do you plan to do that?
Increase marginal tax rates back to pre-Nixon levels. Raise income taxes in general for the people making 50% over median. Wealth taxes on wealth in excess of $1M. Taxes on corporate profits that aren't immediately reinvested. Investment in infrastructure (emphasizing public transit and walkable areas rather than more and bigger roads), and public education, combined with elimination of all charter/magnet schools, and any public funding of selective/private K-12 schools. Criminal justice reform with a focus on rehabilitation/reform rather than punishment, and diversion for drug-related and non-violent offenses. De-privatization of public services. National single-payer healthcare. High density public housing that's funded in perpetuity so that it's not allowed to decay. Minimum wage laws that are tied to CoL and inflation. De-suburbification/de-sprawling cities. Strengthen the NLRB, and give it not only teeth, but nuclear weapons. Etc.
So if it's not a mass shooting, we should be fine with it, that's the angle?
An example from the article:
So basically “black people commit more violence” is what this is trying to say.
What a useless, trashy, racist article
Basically, white incels aren't the main contributors to school shooting statistics.
Why does acknowledging this upset you?
I still don't see the distinction.
Rather I see what seems like an arbitrary distinction. The authors are trying to make. What I don't see is why that distinction is relevant.
From the quote that was provided to you:
There needs to be a distinction so that it can be more appropriately and efficiently prevented.
Because the solutions look different.
"take away the guns" would solve for both
But that doesn’t remove the impetus for violence. Preventing school violence requires more than simply removing the weapons for violence.
Sure, but there's still a difference between school violence with guns and school violence with fists
Typically, the opportunity to get a gun. But the violence that motivates either is typically the same. That’s why school violence prevention is, itself, typically the same, regardless of how it may end.
"My son got beat up in school today"
"My son got shot and killed in school today"
It's the guns. It's always been the guns. And that's why this country is uniquely dealing with this problem. It's not hard to see it, unless you don't want to.
Stopping violence before either of those things happens is the point. I don’t know about you, but I’d rather neither of those happen. 
Taking the nihilist and defeatist attitude that one of those must happen, and therefore we must settle for it with half-measures meant only to prevent the other is bullshit. 
Restricting access to guns is specifically achievable (see also: most of the rest of the world) and would save many lives.
In tandem, sure let's work on preventing violence in general. I'm all in favor, but achieving this semi-utopian goal seems far more challenging.
Nobody said it wouldn’t be difficult, but it’s better than putting up with a bullied child— or a dead one.
Schools should be safe spaces for children to learn, not battlefields to navigate.
It might partially solve for it, by reducing severity of these acts, but guns are really just a means to violence. There are plenty of other ways to enact violence if that's what you want to do.
The fact that guns are easy to get, easy to use, and are a means to extreme, and usually fatal violence is a huge factor to consider in the increase in the violence they contribute to.  Not all weapons are created equal, and the type of weapon they are cannot be weighed equally to other weapons when calculating how each type of weapon contributes to violence. And especially considering the fact that most lethal violence that is committed is committed with a gun. 
No, that's just a distraction the ruling class throws at us to prevent us from addressing the real issue: the disparity in wealth.
Sweden has a higher wealth inequality index than the United States. Strange, how that doesn't lead to an epidemic of school shootings without unfettered access to guns.
Are you asserting that school shootings are caused by wealth inequality? Do you have any data to back that up? 
No the person I'm replying to is.
While it may be a factor, I'm pointing out America is by no means unique in having these problems, such as wealth inequality. In fact all the problems so often touted as the cause for gun violence are not unique to America. The main exception is the incredible proliferation of guns and the lax regulations surrounding them.
But many Americans love their guns, as long as they don't have to pay the price in blood for it, they'll continue blaming other factors..
No they’re not, they just said that was a distraction.
Bad example. Sweden is currently suffering the worst gun violence of any scandinavian country.
I know. It's still way better than the US. Because guns are a bigger factor than wealth disparity, mental health care, social homogeneity, or anything else which is typically pointed to by people who value their access to guns more than other's lives.
It's a specious argument.
How did you get that? Did we read the same article?
We should be angry about the media narrative pushed by some that banning guns that look scary and limiting magazine sizes will do anything.
This shows that teaching non-violent conflict resolution, and getting the larger community to buy in would eliminate almost all shootings. Students need better interpersonal skills, and they need role models to show what those skills look like.
No matter what you do, there's always going to be people freaking out and having homicidal urges. People are imperfect that way.
Maybe that's why most of the rest of the world doesn't allow them have tools to easily kill people at a distance.
Most of it actually does -- very few places have total bans on firearms, they just don't let people buy semi-automatic weapons on a whim.
It's gruelling to accurately explain what gun control is to every pro-gun dildo on social media that feels entitled to a personal explanation (that they'll spit back in your face anyway).
But its important to remember that the pro-gun community isn't fighting "no guns for anyone ever", they're fighting "you need to pass a background check, prove you know how to safely store and use a firearm and not hit your wife"
Are you being ignorant on purpose, or is this just an accident?