Right? I tried it out with a friend of mine that has an Apple device, I have Android, and we were joking about Apple shutting it down within a few days. Lo and behold it took only 3 days.
I think I need a macro for that.
This was predicted on the post about Beeper
I'm just curious as to what Beeper's response will be.
Something something monopoly, something something gatekeepers. They don’t need a war chest big enough to sue Apple, they just need to convince the EU to do it.
I’m sure they saw this coming from the start.
Apple will respond with something something RCS coming soon I guess.
No doubt, but MagSafe turning into the Qi 2 standard is… interesting. It may or may not be part of a broader shift.
The status of Apple as gatekeeper in the messaging app ecosystem is not yet clear. Remember that iMessages is not really popular in Europe, and Europe wont name Apple as a gatekeeper because of imessage's popularity in the U.S.
The EU does seem to be inclined to define them as gatekeeper, but that is not yet final. and if Apple implements RCS that might get them out of the hook.
see section 5.4 of this document https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/202344/DMA_100013_215.pdf
You were absolutely right! It’s been a while, huh? WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger are gatekeepers and WhatsApp is supposed to open up based on the Signal Protocol. I guess we’re settling on that.
I'd like to see a game of cat and mouse until Apple fucks up and breaks their own imessage app
If Bleeper were opensource, I imagine there'd be more contributors willing to reverse engineer iMessage.
Then they'd have a harder time charging $2/month for it.
With the original Beeper app you made an Apple ID through Apples website to use for setting up iMessage. This does require folks having the email in order to use iMessage, so definetly worth setting up an alias. It still works, while Beeper Mini doesn't apparently.
It still works
Yes and allowing beeper to MaInTheMiddle your messages does not present any security issues at all.
Their Matrix bridge is open source, and (at least they claim) everything is E2E encrypted. I love Beeper, and as unstable of a service as it is, it's still really great and I fully trust it with my messages. Waited 2 years for this service and I'm gonna use it lol.
It is end to bridge encrypted. I trust them too but I still prefer to self-host this stuff.
not really. an E2E encrypted message is decrypted on their server, and then reencrypted before they sent it to the recipient.
As they should.
Why? As the article states this actually lessens security for everyone (including iPhone users).
Imagine that! The founder of the company that was denied access to Apple for creating an app that essentially copped an app that is part of their proprietary OS, says it would have increased their security!
Well gosh!!!! let them in then!
I don't really understand your argument.
Okay.
This is nothing to do with the OS.
He has a point though, you haven't refuted that.
iMessages is part of iOS. How is this not common knowledge?
Because you're confusing the difference between an OS, an application and a protocol.
I didn’t say it WAS the OS, I said it is part of it. Stop arguing semantics. We’re done here.
creating an app that essentially copped their proprietary OS
The OS hasn't been 'copped'. They emulated the protocol, and your lack of understanding and confusing the two has led us to having this conversation.
Stop arguing semantics. We're done here.
Compare to Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass:
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” “The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.” “The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master——that's all.
Yeah, if you want to make up your own definitions to the words you use, and then order those around you to stop arguing semantics, then you're basically not having a conversation at all.
Your comment was confusing because you don't seem to understand what is or isn't part of an operating system, and the mere mention of the operating system was pretty far removed from any relevance to your own point.
It's a proprietary service, and if you want to argue that companies can run proprietary services in a closed manner, denying access to third party clients, cool, that can be your position, but it would be an incoherent position to claim that only OS developers should have that right.
and if you want to argue that companies can run proprietary services in a closed manner, denying access to third party clients, cool, that can be your position
Can it really? Cool! Thanks! That’s my position then.
🤖 I'm a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles:
::: spoiler Click here to see the summary
Beeper, the startup that reverse-engineered iMessage to bring blue bubble texts to Android users, is experiencing an outage, the company reported via a post on X on Friday.
Asked if possibly Apple found a way to cut off Beeper Mini’s ability to function, he replied, “Yes, all data indicates that.”
Migicovsky, who previously founded the smartwatch Pebble, has argued that Beeper Mini wasn’t just beneficial for Android users who wanted to finally join their iMessage friends’ group chats, but that it increased security for iPhone users, too.
In an interview ahead of Beeper Mini’s launch, the founder explained that green bubble texts were unencrypted.
Why force iPhone users back to sending unencrypted SMS when they chat with friends on Android?,” he asked.
Because the startup was no longer using a middleman — like a Mac server relaying messages, as other iMessage-to-Android apps employ — it would essentially appear to Apple’s servers that Beeper Mini’s messages were coming from a device that runs iMessage natively.
Saved 75% of original text.
:::
Why force iPhone users back to sending unencrypted SMS when they chat with friends on Android?,” he asked.
If he legitimately doesn't know the answer to that question, he's exceptionally stupid.
"Money" is the answer.
He knows the answer. It's a rhetorical question, meant to piss off iPhone users.
Apple sheep are not that smart. They'd probably attack him for trying to hack their security or something.
I am Jack's COMPLETE lack of surprise.
Right? I tried it out with a friend of mine that has an Apple device, I have Android, and we were joking about Apple shutting it down within a few days. Lo and behold it took only 3 days.
I think I need a macro for that.
This was predicted on the post about Beeper
I'm just curious as to what Beeper's response will be.
Something something monopoly, something something gatekeepers. They don’t need a war chest big enough to sue Apple, they just need to convince the EU to do it. I’m sure they saw this coming from the start.
Apple will respond with something something RCS coming soon I guess.
No doubt, but MagSafe turning into the Qi 2 standard is… interesting. It may or may not be part of a broader shift.
The status of Apple as gatekeeper in the messaging app ecosystem is not yet clear. Remember that iMessages is not really popular in Europe, and Europe wont name Apple as a gatekeeper because of imessage's popularity in the U.S. The EU does seem to be inclined to define them as gatekeeper, but that is not yet final. and if Apple implements RCS that might get them out of the hook. see section 5.4 of this document https://ec.europa.eu/competition/digital_markets_act/cases/202344/DMA_100013_215.pdf
You were absolutely right! It’s been a while, huh? WhatsApp and Facebook Messenger are gatekeepers and WhatsApp is supposed to open up based on the Signal Protocol. I guess we’re settling on that.
I'd like to see a game of cat and mouse until Apple fucks up and breaks their own imessage app
If Bleeper were opensource, I imagine there'd be more contributors willing to reverse engineer iMessage.
https://github.com/mautrix/imessage https://github.com/beeper/barcelona these are the core processes used to connect to the iMessage service
I thought it was. What a missed opportunity.
Then they'd have a harder time charging $2/month for it.
With the original Beeper app you made an Apple ID through Apples website to use for setting up iMessage. This does require folks having the email in order to use iMessage, so definetly worth setting up an alias. It still works, while Beeper Mini doesn't apparently.
Yes and allowing beeper to MaInTheMiddle your messages does not present any security issues at all.
Their Matrix bridge is open source, and (at least they claim) everything is E2E encrypted. I love Beeper, and as unstable of a service as it is, it's still really great and I fully trust it with my messages. Waited 2 years for this service and I'm gonna use it lol.
It is end to bridge encrypted. I trust them too but I still prefer to self-host this stuff.
https://www.beeper.com/faq#how-does-beeper-connect-to-encrypted-chat-networks-like-imessage-signal-whatsapp
not really. an E2E encrypted message is decrypted on their server, and then reencrypted before they sent it to the recipient.
As they should.
Why? As the article states this actually lessens security for everyone (including iPhone users).
Imagine that! The founder of the company that was denied access to Apple for creating an app that essentially copped an app that is part of their proprietary OS, says it would have increased their security!
Well gosh!!!! let them in then!
I don't really understand your argument.
Okay.
This is nothing to do with the OS.
He has a point though, you haven't refuted that.
iMessages is part of iOS. How is this not common knowledge?
Because you're confusing the difference between an OS, an application and a protocol.
I didn’t say it WAS the OS, I said it is part of it. Stop arguing semantics. We’re done here.
The OS hasn't been 'copped'. They emulated the protocol, and your lack of understanding and confusing the two has led us to having this conversation.
Compare to Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass:
Yeah, if you want to make up your own definitions to the words you use, and then order those around you to stop arguing semantics, then you're basically not having a conversation at all.
Your comment was confusing because you don't seem to understand what is or isn't part of an operating system, and the mere mention of the operating system was pretty far removed from any relevance to your own point.
It's a proprietary service, and if you want to argue that companies can run proprietary services in a closed manner, denying access to third party clients, cool, that can be your position, but it would be an incoherent position to claim that only OS developers should have that right.
Can it really? Cool! Thanks! That’s my position then.
🤖 I'm a bot that provides automatic summaries for articles: ::: spoiler Click here to see the summary Beeper, the startup that reverse-engineered iMessage to bring blue bubble texts to Android users, is experiencing an outage, the company reported via a post on X on Friday.
Asked if possibly Apple found a way to cut off Beeper Mini’s ability to function, he replied, “Yes, all data indicates that.”
Migicovsky, who previously founded the smartwatch Pebble, has argued that Beeper Mini wasn’t just beneficial for Android users who wanted to finally join their iMessage friends’ group chats, but that it increased security for iPhone users, too.
In an interview ahead of Beeper Mini’s launch, the founder explained that green bubble texts were unencrypted.
Why force iPhone users back to sending unencrypted SMS when they chat with friends on Android?,” he asked.
Because the startup was no longer using a middleman — like a Mac server relaying messages, as other iMessage-to-Android apps employ — it would essentially appear to Apple’s servers that Beeper Mini’s messages were coming from a device that runs iMessage natively.
Saved 75% of original text. :::
If he legitimately doesn't know the answer to that question, he's exceptionally stupid.
"Money" is the answer.
He knows the answer. It's a rhetorical question, meant to piss off iPhone users.
Apple sheep are not that smart. They'd probably attack him for trying to hack their security or something.