Russia-Ukraine War Mega Thread | June 25 - July 8 2023locked

Newsman@lemmy.world to World News@lemmy.world – 100 points –

Please confine all news pertaining to Russia-Ukraine war to this thread exclusively. Any links shared outside of this thread will be subject to removal.

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I strongly disagree with the decision to centralize all ukraine war news in a megathread.

That's not how information is consumed on a medium like Lemmy. What you're doing makes the topic invisible for the vast majority of users.

I totally agree with you. This is a very inefficient way to share information, blending comments with postings.

The solution is to have the option to filter dominant topics the same way /r/worldnews does. We should do this in addition to having a megathread, again just like /r/worldnews.

I just realized that this is an active thread, I thought the feed hadn't updated since June 25th, as many other community feeds are intermittent or have multi day lags. Maybe have a daily thread or something to indicate aliveness?

Too many things happening to make a new post for every single event.

Dude this is over two weeks old already. The date in the title makes it look like it was a daily thread for that one day. You're effectively hiding news from a large fraction of subscribers with this policy.

Yeah the megathread being so old is an issue. I meant a megathread being daily would make sense.

Ah, I just realised, I mistook you for someone else. I guess because of the vowel, I thought you're @Ruud who runs this lemmy instance.

That's why I wrote as if you're the one making the decision - sorry.

Does anyone else think that being seen as weak and capitulating to Prigozhin here is basically a death sentence to Putin?

Doing that has to have just put SO MUCH blood in the water for every internal agency/power-block with aspirations of taking him down and replacing him.

Apparently all you need is 20,000 men and Putin's defenceless...

My opinion is that this is going to cause chaos.

The fact that Putin didn't have Wagner immediately atomized on the spot suggests that he wasn't powerful enough to do so. Not a statement that someone in Putin's position would want to make, I would think.

Of course we both are speculating without any proof, I am also merely speaking of my gut feeling.

I have been thinking that the rhetoric of saying Putin is weak because Prigozhin was able to momentarily rebel is kind of wishful thinking. I think weak is a pretty strong word.

If Putin is as weak as some of us think he is, Prigozhin would have continued to march towards Moscow already.

At the same time, if Putin is as strong as some of us think he is, his army would have reached Kyiv with a new regime installed already.

Hence the truth should be lying somewhere in between, for now.

I know it's not something many people want to hear because it isn't a polarized statement, for example, it's not as exciting as saying Putin is super strong and can nuke everything, we better bow down to him or Ukraine is super strong and can occupy Moscow tomorrow, let's give them F-35s.

The reality is war is a boring and extremely slow meat grinder. Sometimes you cannot stop it once it's started (because deaths can be remembered for a long time) and sometimes you cannot avoid it (forever appeasement is not far from escalating the situation and empowering the bully which is worse off). I can only wish that Ukraine winning the war can prevent the potential China-Taiwan war from happening.

When new weapons arrive on site, I expect things to change. I wish Ukraine get Crimea back.

Clearly, if Prigozhin marched, it's because he thought it as having a valid chance of success. He left because he was paid what he wanted, be it money or power, etc. Putin, notably capitulated

He did not carpet bomb the fuck, so to speak, out of the traitors. Those threatening his reign. It tells much for those who wish to hear.

Yes! Putin is not some superduper strongman that controls his country as his public persona pretends. He is the guy that the key leaders of Russia allow to be in charge. The moment he is unable to meet their needs is the moment he is replaced. Those key leaders just saw that Putin came this close 🤏 to losing their power to an unpredictable madman, and Putin let the guy off because that was his only option!

Putin's days are numbered. He not only left Moscow vulnerable to attack, he gave someone the power to demonstrate it on the world stage. Before Feb 2022, Russia was internationally feared as the world's second strongest military, and now, the joke is that it's the second strongest military in Russia. That someone even outed that the whole premise of the invasion of Ukraine was false, that the military is terribly messing it up, and that Russia itself is vulnerable to attack. Those key leaders want to maintain their power, and Putin is not the man to do it anymore.

I think there is nothing Putin can do short of a complete Stalin-like Great Purge to stay alive, and I think that purge is impossible with its international relations as he has made enemies with everyone in the West. Putin is rightfully scared. Prigozhin, whether purposefully or in a oblivious narcissistic rage fit, just sealed the fate of Russia. This will undoubtedly encourage other leaders to take a swing at Putin, which makes him a liability to the key leaders' power. Either Russia has to embrace a democratic revolution where power is stripped from the oligarchs (very unlikely considering opposition disorganization and the country's economic contributions to the world stage) or a new more authoritarian leader will step in place to reign in control again. Those are the options, so I forsee life in Russia for the general population getting much worse quickly.

A lot of people are saying that this weakened Putin, put the seed of rebellion in the minds of people, etc. But i disagree. The problem with Russia is that it isnt authoritarian enough. You might think that it is funny that i say this but it is true. The most unstable governments are the ones who havent gone full authoritarian or full democratic. It's the middle area that is dangerous. With this war, Russia was becoming more and more authoritarian. And now after the coup, the deal will be sealed.

Putin will unify the military and use this coup as an excuse to clamp things down even more. Noone would even be allowed to have any kind of personal military, noone would be allowed to say anything against the government. This was already the case before but now it will be even more. Prigozhin was talking shit for over a year, Putin realizes that it was a mistake to let that happen.

As long as things in Ukraine remain somewhat static(or better for Russia), Putin is safe. If Russia losses Zaporizhia, Putin will be in danger.

PS The failed coup against Erdogan also empowered him and allowed him to consolidate power and purge the opposition.

2 more...

https://nafo.uk/explore

Looks like nafo has moved onto Mastodon guys!

Pro-Ukrainian talk has been hampered on Twitter, so its time to just spread NAFO-like talk to Mastodon. There's no more benefit to using Twitter for this.

Lukashenko shares some more details about the day of Prigozhin's mutiny.

He reveals there were no defense lines in Russia up until 200 km from Moscow (some regions are more equal than others?) and carefully chooses words to present Putin as a strong leader, while pointing out it was Lukashenko who did all the negotiating.

https://mstdn.social/@Free_Press/110674608156175504

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/20230704-we-need-a-lot-more-lack-of-firepower-hampers-ukraine-s-advance-on-zaporizhzhia-front-line

‘We need a lot more’: Lack of firepower hampers Ukraine’s advance on Zaporizhzhia front line As Ukraine’s top army general has put it, every metre of ground in the country’s counteroffensive is being won “with blood”. The Ukrainian soldiers’ progress is particularly gruelling in the southeastern Zaporizhzhia region. FRANCE 24’s Gwendoline Debono reports from the front line, where Russian forces are giving Ukraine’s artillerymen no respite.

Hi all ... kind of a meta non-news question.

I've been thinking about getting a person who writes great Russia-Ukraine threads over on Mastodon to post their threads here. I've got a general post about the possibility here: https://lemmy.ml/post/1528973.

I've also pestered @sabbah@lemmy.world via DM.

Just wondering what your thoughts are on whether there'd be a good fit here.

The main point is to make it as easy as possible for them by allowing them to post from mastodon still. So the ideal would be that they would create new posts here and create a thread within that post, to which people would be free to comment on of course.

Except that doesn't seem to fit within the rules here, especially rule [1.1] Submissions must be links to news articles..

Thing is, this person's threads are full of citations of or links to Telegram sources from within Russia or the region, basically a thread of primary sources that the author is compiling into a digestible narrative. It might really be something people here would appreciate, especially as I discovered them through links provided in a megathread on here.

Sooo ... I'm wondering what you think and whether there might be some scope to alter the rules and allow for this sort of thing ... the idea would be that it's something like a journalist live reporting.

Thing is, this person’s threads are full of citations of or links to Telegram sources from within Russia or the region, basically a thread of primary sources that the author is compiling into a digestible narrative.

I think this would go against the general rule 1:

Accurate Sourcing: Share world news from reliable sources and verify information before posting.

I think based on that, this com is supposed to have content based on reliable sources with editorial oversight, like news organizations, so primary sources, especially unreliable stuff like telegram chats, would be way below that line.

That makes sense. A counter though, is I got the impression that the telegram sources are trying to hone in on the news coming out of Russia and Ukraine. So propaganda channels, state and independent news sources. How much of that is going on in her threads I’m not sure. My impression though was it is all an attempt to glean what’s really going on by trying to triangulate the various statements, however conflicting, coming from sources closest to events.

Either way, I think the idea is that this sort of thing is an example of journalism, however independent or unaffiliated, being done directly on a fediverse platform. It’s not “official” but it’s arguably interesting and compelling.

From a fediverse perspective, there’s an interesting question of how to stage this sort of work here, where compared to Twitter, the fediverse is struggling to get journalistic activity in here directly.

Mastodon isn’t great, due to a lack of search and algorithms. Lemmy’s communities, threaded comments and up/down votes can maybe make something happen here, especially given how it can federate with lots of microblog users in a way Reddit never could.

See, for example, this perspective: https://plasmatrap.com/notes/9ghighuelyswt9vo

Which basically holds that the live independent journalistic activities that can happen on a social media platform can often precede and eclipse those of mainstream media. This is a big part of what gave Twitter its value and why mainstream media gave it so much attention despite not being the biggest platform.

I don’t know how much it happened on Reddit or how effectively. Obviously megsthreads are an attempt. But the advantage of the fediverse is that the various platforms can pool their resources and distribute information along multiple formats more directly.

Hi,

While Rule [1.1] applies to the main submission post, we would like to clarify that in the case of our mega thread, posting links to social media sources (such as Mastodon) is acceptable as they will be placed in the comments section of the thread.

As of now, we don't have much experience with cross-posting from Mastodon to Lemmy. However, if you can provide us with some examples, we can explore the possibility of incorporating it in some way. Your input and examples would greatly assist us in understanding the process better and potentially adopting it within our community.

If I were Prigozhin, I would not return to Russia after the war. I wouldn't even eat or drink anything in which might have even the slightest chance of having radioactive material.

Wagner chief Prigozhin returns to Russia, fate unclear (video):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iXdQJescGIw

The whole sage with this guy has just been strange. He's supposed to be exiled but can just return and say "I want my seized guns and money back".

What even the fuck is going on? Now they just let him walk into russia being cheered and all… what a shitshow really

New aid package to Ukraine from Australia announced

*"70 additional vehicles will include 28 armoured trucks, and 28 M113 armoured vehicles, taking the total gifted to 56. It also includes 14 special operations vehicles. It will also fund additions to artillery ammunition, and $10m to the UN office for the coordination of humanitarian affairs.

“This is about helping the Ukrainian people with shelter, health services, clean water and sanitation,” prime minister Albanese says.

This additional support will make a real difference, helping the Ukrainian people who continue to show great courage in the face of Russia’s illegal, unprovoked and immoral war. It is sobering that 16 months on from Russia’s invasion, its brutal conflict continues."*

Wonder what the over/under on number of days until Prigozhin accidentally falls out a window are.

Where are the bases the Wagner group are returning to? I hope they are not returning to fight against Ukrainians.

Wagner forces will integrate conventional russian forces. In a few weeks, Wagner will no longer exist. And of course, the soldiers will probably return to occupied Ukraine. Let's see if they will return to south of Ukraine or Kharkiv.

*Ukrainian forces widened their control at Lobkove/P'yatykhatky and reached the outskirts of Robotyne.

Furthermore, Russians have deployed their reserves to stop the Ukrainian advance while Ukrainians still haven't deployed their main force.

#Ukraine #Counteroffensive #Zaporizhzhia * https://newsie.social/@Tendar/110651371008698222

Is Ukraine winning?

Absolutely. Russians are running out of everything, Ukraine is not. How long either side can keep up though, who knows?

Seems like the strategy of running into defensive lines doesn't work so Ukraine now looks to be doing work taking out artillery, bombing supply lines and clearing trench lines

You're absolutely wrong and you've got it backwards.

Ukraine has ran out of everything they've had pre-2024 conflict and is running out of everything they've gotten after conflict started up until now. Ukraine relies 100% on foreign military assistance, where as Russia does not, how? because they are manufacturing their own equipment. The Ukrainian navy and airforce does not exist because they are destroyed, where as Russia's naval & air forces is still operating.

The saddest & most tragic thing about this entire conflict is that Ukraine has been mobilizing since 2014 until now, they've extended mobilization until August. Where as Russia has only done ONE partial mobilization late last year in December. That speaks volumes on which side has the most casualties.

Furthermore, the Russian strategy has changed but the objectives remain the same: 1. De-militarize Ukraine & 2. have full control of the four regions they've annexed and are now part of Russia. While Ukraine's objectives are 1. Push the Russian forces out. So when you look at the objective map, Russia's objectives are working and Ukraine's objective has turned into playing aggressive defense while begging for foreign assistance and aggressive mobilization.

So militarily Russia is winning & Russia is losing.

LOL, great analysis comrade. You get paid for that? Simple fact is Ukraine now has more tanks than Russia, better troops, better weapons, better reason to fight. Enjoy watching Russia become North Korea, сука

Ukraine now has more tanks than Russia, better troops, better weapons, better reason to fight

And yet the counter-offensive failed, so your analysis is wrong.

As expected, not a single Ukrainian supporter who's living in the delusion & fantasy of a Ukrainian victory has so far challenged my points.

Anybody else want to try?

They're doing so well Putin fled moscow when his mercenaries came to bring him a victory cake.

Russia is collapsing and it's glorious to watch.

I look forward to the lines of t-34s that will replace the already dwindling t-55s.

And once more, another reply that fails to challenge all of my points. It's hilarious when delusional Ukrainian supporters speak about equipment because 1 country is self-sufficient and the other relies on 100% foreign assistance, can you tell which one is which? also, there's an entire list of the 'wunderwuffle' "game changer" equipment that Ukraine was sent, what happened to them? I thought the Leopards were going to be the latest game changers until we seen them get destroyed. What's the next "game changer" in your books? cluster bombs? are you going to keep begging for attack aircrafts that will get destroyed as soon as they fly on the frontlines? can you please show me images of the CURRENT & ACTIVE Ukrainian air force & naval forces? Speaking of countries collapsing, the longer this goes on the deeper hole Ukraine sinks in: https://joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu/jrc-news-and-updates/war-exacerbates-ukraines-population-decline-new-report-shows-2023-03-08_en when US sits with Russia at the negotiating table that Ukraine wont be invited too because they are nothing but a peon being used as a proxy, US will need to give up territory for peace, those 4 regions & Crimea will forever be Russia's and when this entire thing is over with it will be memory-holed in the minds of the general population and Ukraine will be nothing but a weak pathetic farm country.

You don't get it at all, do you?

Ukraine was a peon. Now they're a player, a western-aligned player. ON RUSSIA'S DOORSTEP. And they fucking hate Russia.

Georgia is next, then the rest. Russia complained about being surrounded, they get to see what that really feels like.

They put literally everything they had into Ukraine and went nowhere, to the point that Prigozhin strolled halfway to moscow with 0 resistance (unless you count the jets he shot down).

Everybody in the world is watching this and laughing because the great and powerful Russia is now a joke, and when people no longer fear the bully, that bully dies.

Putin has months at best. I get to watch a 2nd Russian revolution in my lifetime.

Btw, if Ukraine is truly nothing? Why is Russia having so much trouble there? Aren't they supposed to be a world power?