Why would Gazans attack a pier being built to being them aid?
It's far FAR more likely that the attacks were carried out by Israelis. It wouldn't be the first time they attacked people trying to provide aid to the Gazans. Hell - it wouldn't even be the first time this month.
I don't doubt the possibility that Israelis were behind this attack, but there's a good chance this really was done by Hamas/Hamas related groups. from this post to the sub just earlier today, a Hamas official mentioned potential attacks against the pier:
Al-Hayya also implicitly threatened that Hamas would attack Israeli or other forces who might be stationed around a floating pier the U.S. is scrambling to build along Gaza’s coastline to deliver aid by sea.
“We categorically reject any non-Palestinian presence in Gaza, whether at sea or on land, and we will deal with any military force present in these places, Israeli or otherwise … as an occupying power,” he said.
so it could be a case of Hamas cutting off their nose to spite their face. I'm gonna have to see this reported by non Israeli news sources before I believe it though.
I don't know who or why you got downvoted, this seems like a reasonable stance to me.
The reasonableness is likely the cause. Very few people are comfortable with the stance, "Hamas and IDF are BOTH shitty"
Exactly, people naturally look for the side to root for, while in this war, their is none. Neither Hamas nor IDF cares about the lives of the citizens (in Gaza or Israel).
Very few loud people are comfortable with that. The average person has probably washed their hands of the situation because it's fucked all around. No one is the good guy and it's depressing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Hamas or another Palestinian group that attacked either. However, I don’t think it would be without reason.
The problem is if the pier is completed then it offers a route for an aid other than the Rafah crossing. That would give Israel an excuse to invade Rafah and take control of the border with Egypt. If they succeed, Israel would finally have full control over Gaza’s food supply which would allow them to use starvation as a weapon. If you want to genocide a people starving them is far more efficient than bombs and bullets. This is a future Palestinians desperately want to avoid.
Remember that it’s not Gazans, it’s a terrorist organization with political power. Not to excuse Israel's actions but Hamas are hardly paragons. This entire phase started with Hamas attacking Israel, then hiding among the civilian population. They do not have the good of their people as a goal, but rather a weapon. I would believe either side would do it
Why would Gazans attack a pier being built to being them aid?
Hamas would absolutely, unquestionably attack a pier being built to bring Gazans aid. Hamas has never been interested in helping their fellow Gazans - which is why e.g. they committed Oct 7 in the first place, even though it was guaranteed to make life worse in Gaza. You're confusing a tyrannical terroeist group with the Gazan people in general, i.e. you're spouting the same rhetoric Netanyahu does.
You say that but provide no evidence other than your belief.
What gain does that bring Hamas? Comparing that to what gain it brings netanyahu it does seem like he's more likely to blame.
A stunning event predicted by everyone the instant the pier was announced...
I'm going to go with the 99.9% more likely scenario of IDF terrorists posing as Hamas in order to attack US infrastructure, sway public sentiment away from Gaza, and further accomplish the goals of the genocide they are currently prosecuting. Fuck Israel.
There's no way to know at this very moment and projecting your own bias as an amateur, which I'm assuming you are, reveals your own status as a moron, or worse; a bad actor.
Good point. Unlike the other two Israel twinks in this conversation you actually did isolate a legitimate bias in my original rhetoric. Therefore, I partially accept your criticism.
However, it is also important to note that we have repeatedly seen the IDF intentionally obfuscationing its atrocities by using the fog of war as part of their psychological warfare campaign. So, I am comfortable saying that there is significant strategic value to them attacking US aid infrastructure...
Blaming it on the Jews never gets old.
Where did I say "Jews"? Please point that out for the whole class. Unlike you, I am able to effectively differentiate the political entity of Israel from the socio-religious culture of the global Jewish diaspora.
I am also aware that IDF tactics have repeatedly included the use of covert terrorist attacks that have then been blamed on other groups to justify their own ends. Additionally the Israeli military already set a precedent for this by attacking the United States military in a similar fashion during the Six Days War.
So, no, I do not trust Israel will not use the IDF to destroy infrastructure in order to continue blocking aid from reaching the Gazans who desperately need it.
The IDF website states that most of them are Jews. So by literally combining the letters I, D and F, while also referring to the military organization, you are implying Jews.
If you are trying to not be antisemitic, you are doing a shit job of hiding it. Your aren't being genuine here, and can fuck off with your bullshit somewhere else like HexBear or LemmyGrad.
This is honestly one of the stupidest fucking retorts I've read in awhile. That's like saying "Christians nuked Japan in WW2." While factually probable (I don't know the religious affiliation of the dudes in the plane who dropped the bomb), it is tying a religious affiliation to a state organization. The US dropped the nukes on Japan, and the religion of the people who did it is irrelevant.
People have a problem with government of Israel, not Jewish people. People have a problem with the actions of West Bank settlers, not Jewish people. People have a problem with the IDF, not Jewish people. It's almost like we are able to separate the actions of people from their religious affiliation. Now, countries in the Middle East that are Muslim governments have a problem with Jewish people as a whole, but that isn't who you are arguing with here.
Saying everything is antisemitism is super lame and not helping like you think
People have been blaming the Jews since the Romans. That's what's lame.
You still don’t get it and are just turning even more people against. We fucking hate the Israeli government who have become genociders. We don’t give a fuck about your religion. Stop hiding behind it and stop slaughtering people in Gaza or literally no one not even in America will listen to you
I really don't care if you're against me.
As usual. A noun, a verb and genociders!
I'm not a Jew boss.
Haven't slaughtered anybody lately either.
You speak for America huh
Blaming it on the Jews never gets old.
Wow so you think black people are antisemitic? Why are you so racist?
Do you see how totally fucking stupid that would be as a response to you?
They've been blaming the Jews since the Romans. That is simply true.
So every time a black person expresses an opinion you choose to silence them? I can't believe the hate I'm facing right now
Wait a minute, I have to check if I have ever silenced the black people I live with....no, sure haven't
You're doing it right now. You're only arguing with me because I'm black. The hate is on display for everybody to see
No I actually have two black roommates. But, it doesn't matter, you will believe what you will.
Yeah, and you're arguing with me for a reason. The fact I'm black has nothing to do with it. It was very disingenuous of me to pretend that your position had anything whatsoever to do with that. I know nothing about you so just calling you racist with no evidence is ridiculous and unhelpful
Ridiculous and unhelpful? No, I just don't see any revelence.
Lol, you don't?
That’s sad
Attempting to equate Zionist Israelis with all Jews got old a long fucking time ago.
Stop trying to conflate anti-Israel with antisemitism
Concerns still loom large — the pier was attacked Wednesday, the U.N. official said, as four high-ranking U.N. officials were visiting the site. The military said the mortar fire from Gaza militants forced the officials to take shelter, but no one was killed or harmed.
Why would Gazans attack a pier being built to being them aid?
It's far FAR more likely that the attacks were carried out by Israelis. It wouldn't be the first time they attacked people trying to provide aid to the Gazans. Hell - it wouldn't even be the first time this month.
I don't doubt the possibility that Israelis were behind this attack, but there's a good chance this really was done by Hamas/Hamas related groups. from this post to the sub just earlier today, a Hamas official mentioned potential attacks against the pier:
https://apnews.com/article/hamas-khalil-alhayya-qatar-ceasefire-1967-borders-4912532b11a9cec29464eab234045438
so it could be a case of Hamas cutting off their nose to spite their face. I'm gonna have to see this reported by non Israeli news sources before I believe it though.
I don't know who or why you got downvoted, this seems like a reasonable stance to me.
The reasonableness is likely the cause. Very few people are comfortable with the stance, "Hamas and IDF are BOTH shitty"
Exactly, people naturally look for the side to root for, while in this war, their is none. Neither Hamas nor IDF cares about the lives of the citizens (in Gaza or Israel).
Very few loud people are comfortable with that. The average person has probably washed their hands of the situation because it's fucked all around. No one is the good guy and it's depressing.
I wouldn’t be surprised if it was Hamas or another Palestinian group that attacked either. However, I don’t think it would be without reason.
The problem is if the pier is completed then it offers a route for an aid other than the Rafah crossing. That would give Israel an excuse to invade Rafah and take control of the border with Egypt. If they succeed, Israel would finally have full control over Gaza’s food supply which would allow them to use starvation as a weapon. If you want to genocide a people starving them is far more efficient than bombs and bullets. This is a future Palestinians desperately want to avoid.
Remember that it’s not Gazans, it’s a terrorist organization with political power. Not to excuse Israel's actions but Hamas are hardly paragons. This entire phase started with Hamas attacking Israel, then hiding among the civilian population. They do not have the good of their people as a goal, but rather a weapon. I would believe either side would do it
Hamas would absolutely, unquestionably attack a pier being built to bring Gazans aid. Hamas has never been interested in helping their fellow Gazans - which is why e.g. they committed Oct 7 in the first place, even though it was guaranteed to make life worse in Gaza. You're confusing a tyrannical terroeist group with the Gazan people in general, i.e. you're spouting the same rhetoric Netanyahu does.
You say that but provide no evidence other than your belief.
What gain does that bring Hamas? Comparing that to what gain it brings netanyahu it does seem like he's more likely to blame.
A stunning event predicted by everyone the instant the pier was announced...
I'm going to go with the 99.9% more likely scenario of IDF terrorists posing as Hamas in order to attack US infrastructure, sway public sentiment away from Gaza, and further accomplish the goals of the genocide they are currently prosecuting. Fuck Israel.
There's no way to know at this very moment and projecting your own bias as an amateur, which I'm assuming you are, reveals your own status as a moron, or worse; a bad actor.
Good point. Unlike the other two Israel twinks in this conversation you actually did isolate a legitimate bias in my original rhetoric. Therefore, I partially accept your criticism.
However, it is also important to note that we have repeatedly seen the IDF intentionally obfuscationing its atrocities by using the fog of war as part of their psychological warfare campaign. So, I am comfortable saying that there is significant strategic value to them attacking US aid infrastructure...
Blaming it on the Jews never gets old.
Where did I say "Jews"? Please point that out for the whole class. Unlike you, I am able to effectively differentiate the political entity of Israel from the socio-religious culture of the global Jewish diaspora.
I am also aware that IDF tactics have repeatedly included the use of covert terrorist attacks that have then been blamed on other groups to justify their own ends. Additionally the Israeli military already set a precedent for this by attacking the United States military in a similar fashion during the Six Days War.
So, no, I do not trust Israel will not use the IDF to destroy infrastructure in order to continue blocking aid from reaching the Gazans who desperately need it.
Wikipedia: USS Liberty Incident
The IDF website states that most of them are Jews. So by literally combining the letters I, D and F, while also referring to the military organization, you are implying Jews.
They have been historically tied to Jewish paramilitary forces in the New Yishuv.
Their ranks and division titles are all in Hebrew.
Their religious demographic is almost entirely Jewish.
If you are trying to not be antisemitic, you are doing a shit job of hiding it. Your aren't being genuine here, and can fuck off with your bullshit somewhere else like HexBear or LemmyGrad.
This is honestly one of the stupidest fucking retorts I've read in awhile. That's like saying "Christians nuked Japan in WW2." While factually probable (I don't know the religious affiliation of the dudes in the plane who dropped the bomb), it is tying a religious affiliation to a state organization. The US dropped the nukes on Japan, and the religion of the people who did it is irrelevant.
People have a problem with government of Israel, not Jewish people. People have a problem with the actions of West Bank settlers, not Jewish people. People have a problem with the IDF, not Jewish people. It's almost like we are able to separate the actions of people from their religious affiliation. Now, countries in the Middle East that are Muslim governments have a problem with Jewish people as a whole, but that isn't who you are arguing with here.
Saying everything is antisemitism is super lame and not helping like you think
People have been blaming the Jews since the Romans. That's what's lame.
You still don’t get it and are just turning even more people against. We fucking hate the Israeli government who have become genociders. We don’t give a fuck about your religion. Stop hiding behind it and stop slaughtering people in Gaza or literally no one not even in America will listen to you
I really don't care if you're against me.
As usual. A noun, a verb and genociders!
I'm not a Jew boss.
Haven't slaughtered anybody lately either.
You speak for America huh
Wow so you think black people are antisemitic? Why are you so racist?
Do you see how totally fucking stupid that would be as a response to you?
They've been blaming the Jews since the Romans. That is simply true.
So every time a black person expresses an opinion you choose to silence them? I can't believe the hate I'm facing right now
Wait a minute, I have to check if I have ever silenced the black people I live with....no, sure haven't
You're doing it right now. You're only arguing with me because I'm black. The hate is on display for everybody to see
No I actually have two black roommates. But, it doesn't matter, you will believe what you will.
Yeah, and you're arguing with me for a reason. The fact I'm black has nothing to do with it. It was very disingenuous of me to pretend that your position had anything whatsoever to do with that. I know nothing about you so just calling you racist with no evidence is ridiculous and unhelpful
Ridiculous and unhelpful? No, I just don't see any revelence.
Lol, you don't?
That’s sad
Attempting to equate Zionist Israelis with all Jews got old a long fucking time ago.
Stop trying to conflate anti-Israel with antisemitism
AP decided this was not headline worthy:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-aid-port-eb8a701b3a7dc8f946422c04323ff913
Just this morning I read about construction of the pier, and said to my wife "I wonder how long it will take for an accidential bombing of that site."
From the article...
~Anti~ ~Commercial-AI~ ~license~ ~(CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0)~
Israeli news site, zero sources or evidence cited. Definitely trustworthy.
I just mentioned what I did because the Lemmy headline or summary didn't mention the humanitarian pier at all.
~Anti~ ~Commercial-AI~ ~license~ ~(CC~ ~BY-NC-SA~ ~4.0)~
Hamas knows if this is built then they can't sell all the aid that they get for free. Bad for business
Yes, and it was predictable.
Morbillion dollars says it was Israel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident