If I needed a laptop I'd get a framework, sure it's a bit more expensive at the beginning but you'll probably save in the long run. It's also good to show there's a market for user serviceable tech, hopefully forces big tech's hand a bit.
here is the list of countries & regions they're shipping to
Thank God they don't ship here or I'd have bought it
I’ve placed a pre-order - I expect to be in the market for a laptop this year and considering the specs (especially the 2560x1600 165Hz screen) it’s within a reasonable range of an off the shelf gaming laptop. I keep my hardware for a long time (this will replace an i7-4000 series laptop) so repairability and upgrades matter a lot to me.
I haven’t been following this. Why would I want it?
Replaceable everything. Deeply customizable.
and actually good
It's a laptop that you can upgrade like a desktop.
You can also mix and match the ports on it, so you can do a combination of whatever ports you use and need most.
Oh that IS sexy.
It really is! And if you upgrade your laptop, you can use the old parts to build a mini desktop. They sell an enclosure. So nothing really goes to waste!
And if you had the means to, you could even 3D print your own enclosure since they (and other people) have published files for it.
I gather you can also repurpose the battery as a portable power pack but I'm not sure if this is specific to the 16
Great! That will fit on the shelf next to my Framework 13 Ryzen pre-order 😄
If only I had 2000 euros to spare for this beauty...
At that price I’d honestly just get a MacBook. I know there’s a lot of Apple hate here, but they make phenomenal laptops.
I probably also wouldn’t ever upgrade my laptop, so framework probably isn’t for me anyways.
Definitely not worth buying if you're not planning on upgrading it in the future. The point of framework is the customizability and future-proofing, otherwise it's pretty expensive compared to similar spec-d laptops.
The point of this machine is to be repairable, not cheap. It allows you to keep the same machine for longer and reduce your e-waste in the long term.
EDIT: and yes, if you're not interested in repairability then it's not really worth it.
According to configurator, for 2000$ you get a Linux capable laptop with 32 Gb RAM, 2Tb SAD, and one of the top CPUs on the market. It’s definitely not price that MacBooks compete with this on, as anything comparable starts at 500$ more.
M1 versions do compete on price, but there’s a whole other set of trade offs there.
Enjoy your soldered storage. If it breaks you have to pay out the nose to replace an SSD, the easiest of upgrades/repairs
You can’t boot Windows or Linux natively on a MacBook, so that would be another reason to not go for it (if you care about that).
But yeah, this machine is definitely not for people who don’t want to upgrade or modify their device.
Isn't Asahi Linux native?
It is, but I don’t think it’s developed enough to be considered ready IMO.
It is for different people.
If you’d buy a new laptop, you could upgrade the old one instead
I could, but by the time I need a new laptop (last one I bought was 2017) the chassis and screen end up beat to shit and need to be replaced anyways.
I also just have no use for upgrades in my laptops. They’re always single purpose machines and I replace them when they break, not when they get slow.
I have a desktop that keeps up with modern hardware. Never got the need for the same in my laptop
But... you could replace the part that breaks instead of buying a new laptop
Honestly, I’ll say I’ll do it and then never do it.
The chassis is the most reusable part, which also is the most broken part by the time I’m done with a laptop, so I’d need to buy new internals and a new chassis, at which point I’ve just bought a new laptop
No Linux on new MacBooks from what I understand.
Honestly I prefer macOS over Linux for laptops
Great, then I'd have no software to run.
I have been daily driving an apple silicon macbook pro for over a year. Honestly couldn't see myself going back and I only use my PC for gaming now.
Still some small annoyances, but the battery life...
I am glad framework exists though. It would be the top of my list if I needed a windows laptop for sure.
People also sleep on the unified memory of apple silicon. If you get 16gb your GPU can use it. Your cou can use it. Your ML cores can use it.
I can run some large ai models on my air just because of the unified memory. And the ML cores are insanely fast.
My m1 Mac air was the first apple product Ive owned and I have to say, I've never had a better laptop. It's so well built, everything works with no driver issues, and iterm2 is one of the best terminal emulators out there.
It's so well built, everything works with no driver issues
You might run into a lot of driver issues if you try to run anything besides MacOS.
Honestly after my experience with the MacBook Pro 13 2017 I can't take anyone who says that Apple makes phenomenal laptops seriously.
You can't just say that and not explaining why
No Linux on new MacBooks from what I understand.
Linux is available for m1 and newer machines but your point stands.
It’s funny, I felt that way for years, then I actually learned the OS after using windows for the past 20 years.
I can confidently say I’ll never buy a new windows laptop again due to the OS. I can’t live without my trackpad gestures anymore.
It’s not for everyone, but I’ve yet to find a use case outside of gaming that a windows laptop is better for.
Was this a feature of the previous generation? This is really cool! Framework has settled the numpad debate.
No, it's new
I dumped a cup of coffee in my laptop a month ago and was so bummed that it wasn't for sale yet.
I would immediately buy it, if it was 15".
It's a 15" screen that's slightly taller. That's all.
My 16" laptop is smaller than my 15.6" because it has thinner bezels (tbh they were huge on the 15.6 dell)
When are they shipping?
"Q4 2023" so no firm date. They also have "Batches" so if you're in batch 1 vs batch 4 delivery date will be different
Edit: 2023 (not 2024) Y'all are correct - very misleading typo on my part. My bad!
Since no firm date I'm guessing very end of the year? I would think they would have said if it was earlier. Unfortunately I think the person I'm recommending needs a computer before that.
I have to lock in shipped specs potentially 18 months out?? So I'm buying an outdated laptop then?
The orders are currently up to Q1 2024, not Q4. The Q4 orders were for 2023. The 2023 pre-orders sold out in less than 10 hours.
If I needed a laptop I'd get a framework, sure it's a bit more expensive at the beginning but you'll probably save in the long run. It's also good to show there's a market for user serviceable tech, hopefully forces big tech's hand a bit.
here is the list of countries & regions they're shipping to
Thank God they don't ship here or I'd have bought it
I’ve placed a pre-order - I expect to be in the market for a laptop this year and considering the specs (especially the 2560x1600 165Hz screen) it’s within a reasonable range of an off the shelf gaming laptop. I keep my hardware for a long time (this will replace an i7-4000 series laptop) so repairability and upgrades matter a lot to me.
I haven’t been following this. Why would I want it?
Replaceable everything. Deeply customizable.
and actually good
It's a laptop that you can upgrade like a desktop.
You can also mix and match the ports on it, so you can do a combination of whatever ports you use and need most.
Oh that IS sexy.
It really is! And if you upgrade your laptop, you can use the old parts to build a mini desktop. They sell an enclosure. So nothing really goes to waste!
And if you had the means to, you could even 3D print your own enclosure since they (and other people) have published files for it.
I gather you can also repurpose the battery as a portable power pack but I'm not sure if this is specific to the 16
Great! That will fit on the shelf next to my Framework 13 Ryzen pre-order 😄
If only I had 2000 euros to spare for this beauty...
At that price I’d honestly just get a MacBook. I know there’s a lot of Apple hate here, but they make phenomenal laptops.
I probably also wouldn’t ever upgrade my laptop, so framework probably isn’t for me anyways.
Definitely not worth buying if you're not planning on upgrading it in the future. The point of framework is the customizability and future-proofing, otherwise it's pretty expensive compared to similar spec-d laptops.
The point of this machine is to be repairable, not cheap. It allows you to keep the same machine for longer and reduce your e-waste in the long term.
EDIT: and yes, if you're not interested in repairability then it's not really worth it.
According to configurator, for 2000$ you get a Linux capable laptop with 32 Gb RAM, 2Tb SAD, and one of the top CPUs on the market. It’s definitely not price that MacBooks compete with this on, as anything comparable starts at 500$ more.
M1 versions do compete on price, but there’s a whole other set of trade offs there.
Enjoy your soldered storage. If it breaks you have to pay out the nose to replace an SSD, the easiest of upgrades/repairs
You can’t boot Windows or Linux natively on a MacBook, so that would be another reason to not go for it (if you care about that).
But yeah, this machine is definitely not for people who don’t want to upgrade or modify their device.
Isn't Asahi Linux native?
It is, but I don’t think it’s developed enough to be considered ready IMO.
It is for different people.
If you’d buy a new laptop, you could upgrade the old one instead
I could, but by the time I need a new laptop (last one I bought was 2017) the chassis and screen end up beat to shit and need to be replaced anyways.
I also just have no use for upgrades in my laptops. They’re always single purpose machines and I replace them when they break, not when they get slow.
I have a desktop that keeps up with modern hardware. Never got the need for the same in my laptop
But... you could replace the part that breaks instead of buying a new laptop
Honestly, I’ll say I’ll do it and then never do it.
The chassis is the most reusable part, which also is the most broken part by the time I’m done with a laptop, so I’d need to buy new internals and a new chassis, at which point I’ve just bought a new laptop
No Linux on new MacBooks from what I understand.
Honestly I prefer macOS over Linux for laptops
Great, then I'd have no software to run.
I have been daily driving an apple silicon macbook pro for over a year. Honestly couldn't see myself going back and I only use my PC for gaming now.
Still some small annoyances, but the battery life...
I am glad framework exists though. It would be the top of my list if I needed a windows laptop for sure.
People also sleep on the unified memory of apple silicon. If you get 16gb your GPU can use it. Your cou can use it. Your ML cores can use it.
I can run some large ai models on my air just because of the unified memory. And the ML cores are insanely fast.
My m1 Mac air was the first apple product Ive owned and I have to say, I've never had a better laptop. It's so well built, everything works with no driver issues, and iterm2 is one of the best terminal emulators out there.
You might run into a lot of driver issues if you try to run anything besides MacOS.
Honestly after my experience with the MacBook Pro 13 2017 I can't take anyone who says that Apple makes phenomenal laptops seriously.
You can't just say that and not explaining why
No Linux on new MacBooks from what I understand.
Linux is available for m1 and newer machines but your point stands.
It’s funny, I felt that way for years, then I actually learned the OS after using windows for the past 20 years.
I can confidently say I’ll never buy a new windows laptop again due to the OS. I can’t live without my trackpad gestures anymore.
It’s not for everyone, but I’ve yet to find a use case outside of gaming that a windows laptop is better for.
Was this a feature of the previous generation? This is really cool! Framework has settled the numpad debate.
No, it's new
I dumped a cup of coffee in my laptop a month ago and was so bummed that it wasn't for sale yet.
I would immediately buy it, if it was 15".
It's a 15" screen that's slightly taller. That's all.
My 16" laptop is smaller than my 15.6" because it has thinner bezels (tbh they were huge on the 15.6 dell)
When are they shipping?
"Q4 2023" so no firm date. They also have "Batches" so if you're in batch 1 vs batch 4 delivery date will be different
Edit: 2023 (not 2024) Y'all are correct - very misleading typo on my part. My bad!
Since no firm date I'm guessing very end of the year? I would think they would have said if it was earlier. Unfortunately I think the person I'm recommending needs a computer before that.
I have to lock in shipped specs potentially 18 months out?? So I'm buying an outdated laptop then?
The orders are currently up to Q1 2024, not Q4. The Q4 orders were for 2023. The 2023 pre-orders sold out in less than 10 hours.
Q4 2023