Biden blocks oil drilling on 10M acres in Alaska, including leases Trump sold

jeffw@lemmy.world to politics @lemmy.world – 695 points – Biden to cancel Trump's oil drilling leases in Alaskan nature refuge
politico.com

Former President Donald Trump had bragged about his success in opening the region to oil production after decades of political fighting over the resources locked under the tundra there.

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god damn it. what a worthless president. congrats democrats, you get $5 gas while financially supporting Russia and our other global adversaries. Traitors all of you.

Protecting our fragile lands has nothing to do with Russia lol

Russian oil does burn just as clean as our own I suppose. With a slight scent of Ukrainian blood though.

Crude oil is not one thing. That's like saying all water is the same. https://oilprice.com/Energy/Crude-Oil/A-Detailed-Guide-On-The-Many-Different-Types-Of-Crude-Oil.html https://www.thebalancemoney.com/the-basics-of-crude-oil-classification-1182570#toc-factors-that-impact-crude-oil-prices

Yes I understand, It would be more efficient to use more US oil since in general it's predominantly the "Sweet" type meaning a higher density of fuel, but even tar sands can be made into fuel too.

You do realize trump is OK with putin's war in Ukraine?

So is Biden and anyone who supports exporting less oil in the US causing more oil sales in places like Russian.

Peanuts compared to the republicans who want to drop the sanctions and would actively cooperate with putin to fix oil prices

That's a drop in the bucket that'd come from an indirect consequence of wanting to curb climate change

Get your thoughts in order

Well if you are fine with supporting Russians killing more Ukrainians by increasing the demand for their natural resources then who am I to judge.

You realize the gas companies have had record breaking profits, right? It's greed, nothing more

Heck yeah it is. I moved a bunch of money into oil when it bottomed out at the start of covid and its more than trippled. The only thing that would have been a better investment was big pharma. That being said, I'd rather that profit stay with US companies and investors than go to Russians, Iranians, and Saudis.

I'd rather the "profits" stay in the pockets of every American citizen

See, that's where we're different. You pretend to be upset about Americans paying more at the pump, but are actually selfish and only care about a handful of Americans getting richer

Most Americans have 401k's which are invest broadly, including the energy sector.

If you invest in oil, then you should want higher gas prices. If you want lower gas prices, then i recommend not investing in oil. If you want energy independance, then you should be championing green energy initiatives and electric cars as much as drilling new claims, even if you yourself dont plan on getting an ev it reduces national dependance.

Oil companies got crushed under trump with the insanely low gas prices of 2016 2017 (i think it was saudi selling at a loss to take market share that time), then again under covids reduced demand and more opec suppliers flooding the market and stealing market share (also under trump). Then they cut production to match demand and cut costs. You can't just turn a well off and back on, so when demand rose gobally post covid and foreign suppliers cut back production at the same time to reap the profits, the US lagged in ramping up production, and their record profits (under biden) didnt incen tivise them ramping it up. Those 5$ gas prices made the stock go up.

The president does influence gas prices, but not much. Here's a decent video on gas prices.

https://youtu.be/QnBqAzJXVGo?si=rdfQFVneqaOtf9u9

Gas prices don't bother me personally as long as government isn't unnecessarily hamstringing the domestic industry. The people who should be most upset about $5 gas are the ones financially struggling to buy it.

Translation: I don't give a fuck as long as the rich people who own the industry get richer. People with less money than me should join me in protecting those poor billionaires and hectomillionaires from only becoming 45% richer every year or two.

Here in reality, the US is the number one oil producer in the world and exports much more than it uses. Prices are not affected by production anywhere near as much as by commodities trading, cartel price fixing and good old fashioned profiteering.

According to data from the U.S. Census Bureau, only 32% of Americans are saving for retirement in a 401(k).

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2017/06/19/does-the-average-american-have-a-401k.aspx

I'm pretty sure 32% is less than a majority, but I admit I'm bad at math.

sorry, 79% of the workforce has the option of a 401k. which is a huge majority. If a person chooses to opt out, that's on them.

Bullshit.

not bullshit. it's 100% their personal choice, and a bad one.

Notice I provided evidence and you did not?

You provided my evidence for me. Your article says 79%.

It says a 401(k)-style plan, which is very vague. Maybe they don't go for it because it's a shitty 401(k)-style plan.

If there is zero employer match then sure. 401k-style plans are all basically the same as a 401k, the largest differences are really on the administration end. I have a small business and offer my guys SIMPLE IRA with a match. From what I can tell there's no difference from the employee side.

Stupid deflection and "most" is wildly inaccurate, unless you're talking about boomers, who by your standards, should be thanking Biden then

Fine, not "most" then. Practically all mature adults who are a net benefit to society have 401k's.

Define "net benefit to society." Does that include the entire service industry, much of which does not offer 401(k) plans? I'd like to see what you would do without all the people who pamper you.

net tax payer, depending on where you live that's something like 60-80k per year. and 401k is just the most common of many ways to save for retirement. The biggest loss would be the house cleaners for sure.

You think house cleaners would be the biggest loss? How about waiters? How about cooks? How about fucking janitors?

None of them are a net benefit to society? Well then why even have those jobs? They're a net loss to society.

There's the Republican moral compass. Unless you're giving corporations extra spending cash, you're a detriment to society.

ooh boy, you need to hear this. Social security will NOT provide you enough to live in retirement. You really should learn about and invest in a 401k or some sort of retirement account.

I'd rather the environment stay with us instead of trading it for money

that's not an option. Every barrel of oil not extracted here gets extracted from somewhere else with far fewer regulations like Russia, or Nigeria

Yeah let the environment in Russia be destroyed first please. Let's keep American land the way it naturally is

Russian oil is down 24% YOY

https://www.barrons.com/market-data/stocks/rosn?countrycode=ru

Yep, that's because the major oil buying nations realized they couldn't survive without buying some Russian oil, and signed an agreement to only buy it for I think it was exactly 25% under current market value. So if this war ever ends I'm sure Russian oil will rebound. If countries had stuck to their promise to never buy Russian oil it would be way lower than that.

So if this war ever ends I’m sure Russian oil will rebound

This is a bold claim to actually bet money on. Too risky for my blood but do you. If you believe it, this is definitely the dip to buy in at.

Oh i'm not in Russian oil, I'm in US companies. I think BP has done just as well though. Investing in dictator run countries is certainly too risky for me too.

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If you're trying to make money invested in US oil and hoping to keep money in the US, you need the price to be > $3/gal. During the pandemic Russia killed us and our fracking oil fields with the cheap gas. Many US fields had to close, many permanently because damage is done to the fracked wells when operations stop. Below $3/gal it's cheaper to import and we're sending our money to the Saudis and elsewhere.

High gas prices makes the US oil fields competitive. Low prices sends US money over seas.

Right, and gas prices are high now, so we should be expanding domestic production right now. I don't mind $1 gas from importer oil either, but when in rome...

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The fact that you associate gas prices with the president proves how much of a gullible moron you are.

Idk, protecting the environment and forgoing new fossil fuel extraction sounds like a pretty big W to me, dawg.

Comments like this is why the rest of the world thinks the USA is a country formed by idiots.

I don't recall pledging allegiance to Exxon or the house of Saud. Maybe the traitor is you!

That's what this move does. We can get our oil from ourselves or from them, your choice, but it's going to be one of them.

Balls to that. We need to get off of oil entirely.

No thanks, I've got way too many dino juice burning toys and vehicles to switch.

Well then you can kiss the Saudis' asses, but don't expect the rest of us to.

You might as well just say, "no thanks, I don't care if anyone lives or dies."

Some of you may die, but that's a risk I'm willing to take to fill up the fuel tanks on my wakeboard boat.

I think what you're saying is we should be energy independent, right?

I don't disagree with that sentiment, but I disagree on where that energy comes from. We should have invested in BOTH getting off of hostile nation energy sources AND alternatives to oil decades ago. Yet here we are. Both parties are to blame for this, yet only one of them seems to be pushing for non-oil energy independence.

We were energy independent up until a couple years ago, a net exporter even. Alternatives are fine, but we aren't going to all park our gas cars for 20 years while we wait for a cheap and plentiful alternative to take its place.

Bro you may wanna research your claims before you get all huffy about shit. You're not even right, and you're mad at the wrong people

Yeah, but we got there by shale oil which is ruining our water supply and raping the future land for the present. Hot take. Let's build more nuclear if energy independence is really the goal. Fossil Fuels are killing us.

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I don't think that is realistic either. We're in a transition period and most people still drive gas powered cars. It could take 20 years like you said, or it could take 50.

That said, going back to the article here, the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge doesn't currently have a lot of oil producing wells on it (if any at all). This is mostly due to the remote area, lack of infrastructure such as roads to get the oil out, and cost vs benefit analysis done by the oil companies. Blocking the drilling is really just slowing down -expansion- of oil production and does nothing to our current production levels.

Oh I know. Production takes time to ramp up no matter where it's located, some areas a just easier than others. Its a known energy reserve, well I guess technically not now that drilling is banned, So energy expansion and production will just continue to expand elsewhere. For global political, and environmental reasons it would be best to expand in the US if possible and not the middle east, russia, china. People cheering this decision don't understand that the oil will just come from dirtier, more evil places.

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ROFL! You perfectly captured the ignorance of every trump-humping coward I’ve ever talked to! Bravo!

I do love me some parody. Well played man! Only, next time- don’t forget the /s so we all know you’re not an idiot.

Damn it, did Biden lean on the gas prices lever in the Oval Office again?

Read the room. Gas is likely going to get much more expensive in the next few decades, and that's probably for the best. If you don't like it then get an electric car.

It's going to be more expensive due to an artificial scarcity. There is an abundance of oil, we're just not drilling for enough of it

I'd gladly pay a little more for gas knowing it came from a north american oil well than have the blood children working in african cobalt mines on my hands.

A billion people are on track to die from climate change, according to some estimates.

https://www.sciencealert.com/scientists-warn-1-billion-people-on-track-to-die-from-climate-change

Even if we call that highly inflated, maybe it is, maybe it isn't, some non-negligible number will certainly die as a result with some multiple of that facing harsh negative impacts. A disproportionate number of those will be in Africa.

If your argument is based in morality, it's absolutely absurd to suggest the moral concerns of cobalt mining outweighs that of climate change.

You raised a very valid concern, let's work to make it better instead of running back into the burning building.

The number of people killed by extreme weather events has been drastically declining for decades so I'm not too worried about the fear mongering of the "1 death per 1000 tons of carbon". Especially when they follow it up with this: "This rule is actually "an order of magnitude best estimate", which means it's more of a range, somewhere between 0.1 to 10 deaths per 1000 tons of carbon burned." So they are saying 10 billion people could die based on the high end of that estimate. That would be something.

So yes, buying a vehicle powered by gasoline is far morally superior to a vehicle powered by batteries. One is a well regulated US industry with millions of high paying jobs. The other has kids dying in mine collapses to try to make $1 per day. If the industry can figure that part out then things we be a lot more equal between the 2.

Fuck them kids. /s

Yeah child labor is fucked up but we need to pressure our government and corporations to get more sustainable mines and better conditions for the workers.

The problem is we need the cobalt and lithium, and domestic production of that is hard to come by due to lack of deposits, and the deposits we do have are being railroaded by environmental lawsuits. Damned if do, damned if you don't. We can't even log off forests that are already dead from beetle kill. So taking advantage of 3rd world kids is the only option.

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We got by without those lands and we can do it again. Or are you too much of a snowflake to handle it?

Nothing was going to come of this, anyway.

Oil companies themselves are not building wells anymore, or exploring for new ones. Lease auctions are just sitting there with no bids. Very little of it has to do with politics; it's all about the payback not being there in the long run combined with the risk of another bust in the short run. Only the wells with a high chance of generating profit are getting the green light.

maybe, maybe not. They certainly aren't going to try to develop better methods and technology to drill there if there's now no chance to do so. Financially I don't mind $5 gas, I'm sure many people will mind though. I have a problem with conflicting government polices to both fund the fight against Russia, and also ones that will directly fund Russia to fight.

Policies aren't causing high gas prices. That's the whole point, here. The industry isn't interested in developing new wells for reasons other than government policies.

The countries now buying Russian oil are the likes of China and India. US production isn't going to be fueling either of them.

a lot of countries are buying Russian oil not just those 2. many of them backed off on the boycotts already and signed some agreement to buy russian oil, but only at "below market rates" to make themselves feel better.

I'm not American. Explain to me how that works please.

If the oil isn't coming out of the ground here in America, it's going to come out of the ground somewhere else, like Russia.

But what about your #1 foreign supplier of oil? Canada.

I love those guys. OPEC is likely to be able to respond faster with production though.

So what's your stance on us support for Ukraine?

I wish them the best. We should stop sending money and equipment to them and focus on rebuilding East Palestine and Lahaina instead.

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