And by that, I mean that everyone should be required to work two weeks in a customer service environment - in a supermarket, in an inbound call centre, or in a coffee shop.
The basic level of communication skill and empathy I've learned there has set me up reasonably well in life - and it's remarkable how far you get with another human on the other end of a phone or teller screen by just "playing the game", "appreciating that there's tickboxes needing to be checked" and "not being a cunt".
I'm not saying the solution is perfect but fuck me, it would solve a lot of entitlement problems.
Two weeks? I feel like 9 months minimum.
One year minimum.
Maybe split up a bit, like a couple months a year over five to ten years
I've been preaching this idea forever and that's a great modification to it. Keep it fresh.
One week inbound callcenter, one week outbound.
If there's a planned economy, this is definitely how it should be.
Whoever yells at any retail workers should be punched in the face
Repeatedly.
I worked in retail only very briefly in the 80s and never had any major issues. I consider myself very lucky for that.
Even before covid, people seemed to be treating retail staff as some kind of lower life form far worse than I remember, but it's absolutely gone insane since.
I'm still sour a decade later over some customer interactions. One of the most notable was during my time as a barista. It was a busy weekend and quite loud in the shop with a line out the door. The line was to the left of the register and it's important to know I only have about 50 percent hearing out of my left ear so most people are on my "bad side."
Now this isn't a big deal, since if I'm looking at you I hear just fine or if it's quiet I can pick up on sounds from that side no problem. In a loud busy cafe, it's pretty bad. So I go to help the next customer and say "hi how can I help you today" or something. The Karen replies that "I was very rude to her, she said hi earlier and I didn't reply."
She was a regular and I recognized her but we didn't have a rapport or anything but I would have definitely greeted her had I heard. I apologized and explained I'm pretty deaf in my left ear and just didn't hear her. Story should have ended there but she goes ballistic and starts calling me a liar and that I made it up. Luckily a more friendly regular was also in line and backed me up.
Still pisses me off. Everyone should work a service job just to learn how to treat people.
If it helps any, people that jump to the conclusion that you are just arbitrarily lying to cover yourself usually assume that because it's how they approach life, never taking responsibility for themselves.
A lady asked me how to get service on her landline phone. At the department store I was working at. It was very confusing, I did actually give her info on a local service that ensures the elderly on fixed incomes always have service, at no ongoing cost at least. She just RAGED at me for being so incompetent I couldn't turn on her phone service from the department store, or wouldn't personally go out and install it. I've never been called so many names in my life. And yet I still feel sorry for her. Customer service really is a constant exercise in empathy and checked projection, you can't get mad at customer 6 just because customer 5 was a horrorshow lunatic.
Back in my day my first job was $5/hour* and it was fine.
*of course, that would be almost $15 in 2024 dollars
It gets so annoying trying to explain just basic inflation to idiots saying minimum wage doesn't need to be changed. Not to even get into actual increases since we're producing so much more now than we used to.
For those that don't understand... $1.00 in 1950 has the same value as $13.04 in 2024. So if we take the $0.75/hr minimum wage from 1950 and just calculate for inflation alone, we would be at $9.78 to have the same buying power. That assumes prices didn't actually increase at all, just matching inflation. So anyone making minimum is making 26% less than they would have in 1955.
And that doesn't take into account ANY increases in actual prices of products or basic necessities like food and housing, or education, beyond basic inflation. We all know that nothing has increased in price by only inflation over the last 70+ years. Basic necessity pricing has shot up way more than inflation in the past couple years alone.
And it's nearly impossible to explain to those same people how a progressive tax structure works. No, you aren't making less money overall just because a simple raise moves you into a higher tax bracket. There are certain situations that could, but you would have to have a very specific and strange portfolio for that to be the case. Something a regular average worker wouldn't have.
Additionally, explaining to people that your yearly raise is not in a vacuum.
Repeat after me: If my raise is less percent than inflation, they are literally paying me less than before.
And the most common excuse when you point that out..."at least it's something". Which while true, since not everyone gets raises at all, is still robbery.
I don't work a customer-facing job now, but back when I did I thought I did a pretty good job. But one day a couple straight-up lied about me to my company! Out of nowhere! Still salty about that. It's one thing to want to get free shit, it's another to potentially get someone fired! Hope they step in wet puddles every time they are in socks...
That is one diabolic curse. Diane, remind me to never piss off Empricorn.
I work retail and when customers come up to have a whinge about the store overcharging or what ever valid complaint, I just join in and start birching bitching about the company with them, calms most of them down pretty quick, you get to bitch about your employer with a customer and they feel heard, even tho they weren't.
I wish I was a more confrontational person because there were definitely times I saw a retail worker being needlessly berated and I didn't confront the person doing it.
I've never been in a physical fight and I would almost certainly lose, so I just avoid them.
It doesn't have to be confrontational at that level.
As a former hot head, when I flipped out on a store clerk for a really stupid reason, the old guy behind me said, "You really taking your anger out on someone paid $6 an hour?" (No confrontation, just calling out the situation)
It was enough. But he could have also said something like, "Go write a email to corporate" or "call up the manager line" because I was out of line for flipping out.
I huffed out of there but I'm kind of glad I did. Because I would have done something stupid. And that old man is what I try to be when I see it.
At least here in Indiana, that would not at all be unprecedented as a reason someone decided to attack someone else physically.
I used to do video journalism for one of the local TV stations. People would threaten me for the camera being in their presence. Not pointed at them, just them being around it. "You point that thing at me and you're dead." When they were walking by and my back was too them.
I just don't have the courage to speak up to people in this environment. I wish I did, but I don't. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have that sort of bravery.
That sucks and yeah, a bunch of America is pretty hot headed. Sorry you had to experience that shit. Camera people are just trying to do their jobs.
I think another direction is also just being support. A kind "That dude was a asshole" empathy is also pretty helpful in the moment, when the victim is still processing and stressing.
Now that I have done. Said that to the person afterward.
I don't know if this matters to them or not, but I always try to look people at the register in the eye at least once during the transaction (usually at the end). Just to show we're on the same level. Maybe they don't notice, but I feel like it's a minor gesture I can make in case they do.
Even if they don't consciously notice your intention, i'm sure it comes off as a blissfully low-streas interaction. Good on ya, wish there were more folks like you!
Not related, but I find it wild how $11/ hour can be low for someone in a first world country, while that would be life changing for someone in a developing country (I for once make a less than $5/hour, converting from local currency, and that is already relatively high around here, a lot of people make $2/hour)
I'm not saying that you should be satisfied earning $11/hour, I'm just saying how strange it is that, even earning roughly 5x more, you guys struggle to pay the bills all the same
That's because the cost of living is a bitch. We may make 5x more but our bills might be 7x more than yours, so overall we're worse off.
Yeah, I'm aware. Monthly (very basic tho) food is $40â$80 (converting from local currency) per person. Rent is $200â300 for a 2 bedroom basic apartment.
At the same time, "luxury" things are way more expensive here. Smartphones, computers and cars, for instance, are almost 2x the price. Shoes and clothes that are beyond expensive here are normal in the US.
So our cost of living is way cheaper, but our purchase power is lower still. If you can work remotely, you are paid in dollars, and can travel to the US to buy things, you can live a very comfortable life here with an income that you would struggle in there.
PS: I'm using $1 = R$5, which is not true, because our currency is dying. Using more updated prices only make the discrepancy even greater
Edit: weird subscript syntax the tilde
Am I the only one, with this wild formatting?
Oh, that's not at all what is supposed to look like, guess boost doesn't have subscript syntax but other clients do
Is this the states? Minimum wage is more than that where I am. $11 for many places is not enough to actually rent somewhere and eat.
Federal minimum wage is $7.25 however some states have their own minimum wage like Georgia with $5.15
Also if someone has a disability some states let you pay under minimum wage
Oof. That's extremely unfortunate. I didn't know it was that low in places.
Federal minimum is like $7 but states also sometimes have their own that overrides the federal one. California's is currently $15 or $21 depending on what your job is. I don't know when it's supposed to jump to $21 for everyone, but it's coming.
That's good. I think it's somewhere between 15 and 21 here. But still. Capitalism sucks.
Federal minimum in the US is still 7.25$/hr. Many states have higher minimums but still laughably low in most of them.
I'm all for bringing back National Service.
And by that, I mean that everyone should be required to work two weeks in a customer service environment - in a supermarket, in an inbound call centre, or in a coffee shop.
The basic level of communication skill and empathy I've learned there has set me up reasonably well in life - and it's remarkable how far you get with another human on the other end of a phone or teller screen by just "playing the game", "appreciating that there's tickboxes needing to be checked" and "not being a cunt".
I'm not saying the solution is perfect but fuck me, it would solve a lot of entitlement problems.
Two weeks? I feel like 9 months minimum.
One year minimum.
Maybe split up a bit, like a couple months a year over five to ten years
I've been preaching this idea forever and that's a great modification to it. Keep it fresh.
One week inbound callcenter, one week outbound.
If there's a planned economy, this is definitely how it should be.
Whoever yells at any retail workers should be punched in the face
Repeatedly.
I worked in retail only very briefly in the 80s and never had any major issues. I consider myself very lucky for that.
Even before covid, people seemed to be treating retail staff as some kind of lower life form far worse than I remember, but it's absolutely gone insane since.
I'm still sour a decade later over some customer interactions. One of the most notable was during my time as a barista. It was a busy weekend and quite loud in the shop with a line out the door. The line was to the left of the register and it's important to know I only have about 50 percent hearing out of my left ear so most people are on my "bad side."
Now this isn't a big deal, since if I'm looking at you I hear just fine or if it's quiet I can pick up on sounds from that side no problem. In a loud busy cafe, it's pretty bad. So I go to help the next customer and say "hi how can I help you today" or something. The Karen replies that "I was very rude to her, she said hi earlier and I didn't reply."
She was a regular and I recognized her but we didn't have a rapport or anything but I would have definitely greeted her had I heard. I apologized and explained I'm pretty deaf in my left ear and just didn't hear her. Story should have ended there but she goes ballistic and starts calling me a liar and that I made it up. Luckily a more friendly regular was also in line and backed me up.
Still pisses me off. Everyone should work a service job just to learn how to treat people.
If it helps any, people that jump to the conclusion that you are just arbitrarily lying to cover yourself usually assume that because it's how they approach life, never taking responsibility for themselves.
A lady asked me how to get service on her landline phone. At the department store I was working at. It was very confusing, I did actually give her info on a local service that ensures the elderly on fixed incomes always have service, at no ongoing cost at least. She just RAGED at me for being so incompetent I couldn't turn on her phone service from the department store, or wouldn't personally go out and install it. I've never been called so many names in my life. And yet I still feel sorry for her. Customer service really is a constant exercise in empathy and checked projection, you can't get mad at customer 6 just because customer 5 was a horrorshow lunatic.
Back in my day my first job was $5/hour* and it was fine.
*of course, that would be almost $15 in 2024 dollars
It gets so annoying trying to explain just basic inflation to idiots saying minimum wage doesn't need to be changed. Not to even get into actual increases since we're producing so much more now than we used to.
For those that don't understand... $1.00 in 1950 has the same value as $13.04 in 2024. So if we take the $0.75/hr minimum wage from 1950 and just calculate for inflation alone, we would be at $9.78 to have the same buying power. That assumes prices didn't actually increase at all, just matching inflation. So anyone making minimum is making 26% less than they would have in 1955.
And that doesn't take into account ANY increases in actual prices of products or basic necessities like food and housing, or education, beyond basic inflation. We all know that nothing has increased in price by only inflation over the last 70+ years. Basic necessity pricing has shot up way more than inflation in the past couple years alone.
And it's nearly impossible to explain to those same people how a progressive tax structure works. No, you aren't making less money overall just because a simple raise moves you into a higher tax bracket. There are certain situations that could, but you would have to have a very specific and strange portfolio for that to be the case. Something a regular average worker wouldn't have.
Additionally, explaining to people that your yearly raise is not in a vacuum.
Repeat after me: If my raise is less percent than inflation, they are literally paying me less than before.
And the most common excuse when you point that out..."at least it's something". Which while true, since not everyone gets raises at all, is still robbery.
I don't work a customer-facing job now, but back when I did I thought I did a pretty good job. But one day a couple straight-up lied about me to my company! Out of nowhere! Still salty about that. It's one thing to want to get free shit, it's another to potentially get someone fired! Hope they step in wet puddles every time they are in socks...
That is one diabolic curse. Diane, remind me to never piss off Empricorn.
I work retail and when customers come up to have a whinge about the store overcharging or what ever valid complaint, I just join in and start
birchingbitching about the company with them, calms most of them down pretty quick, you get to bitch about your employer with a customer and they feel heard, even tho they weren't.I wish I was a more confrontational person because there were definitely times I saw a retail worker being needlessly berated and I didn't confront the person doing it.
I've never been in a physical fight and I would almost certainly lose, so I just avoid them.
It doesn't have to be confrontational at that level.
As a former hot head, when I flipped out on a store clerk for a really stupid reason, the old guy behind me said, "You really taking your anger out on someone paid $6 an hour?" (No confrontation, just calling out the situation)
It was enough. But he could have also said something like, "Go write a email to corporate" or "call up the manager line" because I was out of line for flipping out.
I huffed out of there but I'm kind of glad I did. Because I would have done something stupid. And that old man is what I try to be when I see it.
At least here in Indiana, that would not at all be unprecedented as a reason someone decided to attack someone else physically.
I used to do video journalism for one of the local TV stations. People would threaten me for the camera being in their presence. Not pointed at them, just them being around it. "You point that thing at me and you're dead." When they were walking by and my back was too them.
I just don't have the courage to speak up to people in this environment. I wish I did, but I don't. I'll be the first to admit that I don't have that sort of bravery.
That sucks and yeah, a bunch of America is pretty hot headed. Sorry you had to experience that shit. Camera people are just trying to do their jobs.
I think another direction is also just being support. A kind "That dude was a asshole" empathy is also pretty helpful in the moment, when the victim is still processing and stressing.
Now that I have done. Said that to the person afterward.
I don't know if this matters to them or not, but I always try to look people at the register in the eye at least once during the transaction (usually at the end). Just to show we're on the same level. Maybe they don't notice, but I feel like it's a minor gesture I can make in case they do.
Even if they don't consciously notice your intention, i'm sure it comes off as a blissfully low-streas interaction. Good on ya, wish there were more folks like you!
Not related, but I find it wild how $11/ hour can be low for someone in a first world country, while that would be life changing for someone in a developing country (I for once make a less than $5/hour, converting from local currency, and that is already relatively high around here, a lot of people make $2/hour)
I'm not saying that you should be satisfied earning $11/hour, I'm just saying how strange it is that, even earning roughly 5x more, you guys struggle to pay the bills all the same
That's because the cost of living is a bitch. We may make 5x more but our bills might be 7x more than yours, so overall we're worse off.
Yeah, I'm aware. Monthly (very basic tho) food is $40â$80 (converting from local currency) per person. Rent is $200â300 for a 2 bedroom basic apartment.
At the same time, "luxury" things are way more expensive here. Smartphones, computers and cars, for instance, are almost 2x the price. Shoes and clothes that are beyond expensive here are normal in the US.
So our cost of living is way cheaper, but our purchase power is lower still. If you can work remotely, you are paid in dollars, and can travel to the US to buy things, you can live a very comfortable life here with an income that you would struggle in there.
PS: I'm using $1 = R$5, which is not true, because our currency is dying. Using more updated prices only make the discrepancy even greater
Edit: weird subscript syntax the tilde
Am I the only one, with this wild formatting?
Oh, that's not at all what is supposed to look like, guess boost doesn't have subscript syntax but other clients do
Is this the states? Minimum wage is more than that where I am. $11 for many places is not enough to actually rent somewhere and eat.
Federal minimum wage is $7.25 however some states have their own minimum wage like Georgia with $5.15
Also if someone has a disability some states let you pay under minimum wage
Oof. That's extremely unfortunate. I didn't know it was that low in places.
Federal minimum is like $7 but states also sometimes have their own that overrides the federal one. California's is currently $15 or $21 depending on what your job is. I don't know when it's supposed to jump to $21 for everyone, but it's coming.
That's good. I think it's somewhere between 15 and 21 here. But still. Capitalism sucks.
Federal minimum in the US is still 7.25$/hr. Many states have higher minimums but still laughably low in most of them.