That just makes cops more paranoid and thus more likely to shoot someone who isn't a threat.
Huh, you sound like a cop...
I see a lot of people in this thread justifying murder when that's REALLY not what's needed. That will just lead to the only people willing to be cops is maniacs with a gun (who are NOT in short supply) when we really need cops who can take a moment and think.
when we really need cops who can take a moment and think.
Those people are actively filtered out by police.
It's not hard to make it through the application process as a compassionate, clever person.
It's just hard to stay employed while butting heads with supervisors that aren't, and the public sends you thoughts and prayers from the sidelines. Sure, they'll riot when evil cops are caught doing evil stuff, but they do absolutely nothing to notice or stop good cops from getting forced out.
Source: My time in law enforcement and my interactions with the public on Reddit where I told my story.
We need to murder the concept of cops as we know them today. That's the only murder we need. No individual's death will fix a fucked up system, gotta kill the system itself.
People will not have any interest in going without law enforcement for X days/weeks/months/years while you reboot everything.
Well, I'd realistically suggest a slow strangle while we build up the alternative in tandem, maybe not "murder", but I opted to use the wording of the poster I replied to.
What would the alternative be? I have never heard of a realistic solution that will be anywhere near the Overton Window and also backed up by data. Again, the last time Americans went without cops (CHAZ), it was a total disaster that "replaced" cops with people who did a far worse job when tasked with the same responsibilities.
I'm not criticizing your use of the word "murder."
Re: murder, it was more a personal clarification hahah, murder implies a swift execution, versus a slow change.
I do not claim to have the solution. That's outside of my area of expertise. What I can say is that the implementation of policing we have now is failing, and I'd rather move towards something new than spin my wheels now.
I can also say that, with how everything else in our society is organized, our current system of policing is probably the most practical. Any kind of change to it will likely be predicated on many other facets of society changing first or in tandem. I have no illusions that it'll be an easy change.
That sounds like my kind of accelerationism. Eventually cops will have to be dramatically changed.
Eventually cops will have to be dramatically changed.
Is this a quote from 1894 or 2024?
Did I actually incidentally quote something again?
Yeah... the fed-posting isn't good. However, the current system of policing, and the entire rotten criminal justice system, is a system of oppression, is responsible immense amounts of pain and suffering, and can't be saved by just hiring better people. Cruelty (and upholding hierarchy) is the point.
I maintain that firing bad people and hiring good people is the only realistic way to increase the Good:Bad ratio high enough that many of these problems will evaporate.
My guess is its Kremlin propaganda, the same divisive stuff they pushed during the George Floyd riots
No man, there is plenty of organic distrust of the police here. The whole legal industry is fucked.
Sure, that's how they work. They find a crack and use a wedge.
It's not a crack. This is a grand canyon scale chasm. The decline of the opinion of the police closely follows the release, and reporting, of crimes, and other unethical behaviors, of police. When BWC first started, it was a boon to the reputation of police. However, as the general public has been more able to record police themselves, which strips the police's control of the who, when, how, and editing, of the recordings the public sees, the opposite effect started to happen. Now the police are working, furiously, to prevent people from recording them, from publicly releasing recordings of police for various reasons, making it harder, if not impossible, to attain BWC footage, and straight-up stopping the use of BWC. A lot more than that is going on. There has been a deluge of leaks of internal communications, amongst authorities, across the country, that are clearly stating that the cops should continue using unconstitutional practices, and that the government, at least locally, would have their backs. Then there is the leaking of footage from some of the most popular training regimes, and conferences, for police that are way out of line, showing they are clearly being trained to view the entire public as the enemy, and that it is fine to kill people, because the cop going home at the end of the shift, is the most important thing there is. This is just the tip of the iceberg of reasons why the police are losing favor.
The police, the courts, the legislature, are who is responsible for the public outcry against the police. Not Russia, not China, not any foreign power.
You are a literal idiot. You see Russia everywhere, why the fuck would Russia spend their time on lemmy, we're barely 40k monthly users, they can hit that on any other social media server in one second instead of actively working on here. You're so propagandized by the empire that you live that you think Russia, a total and complete shit hole that can't do anything right is some how masterminding the destruction where you are from. It is fucking absolutely ridiculous and it is pathetic you believe this shit.
You'd have to be a real dumb piece of shit to be a cop. They enforce unjust laws on people for a paycheck and brainwash themselves into thinking the general public is the enemy. They do nothing but ruin people's lives. I'd rather they go after employers and landlords who rob people blind. I'd rather have free access to healthcare than their "protection" I'd rather fend for myself than give up all of my rights in exchange for a false sense of security.
Yeah, I agree a lot of them are kind of dumb, many of them are power tripping assholes. Doesn't mean people should be ADVOCATING FOR THEIR FUCKING MURDER.
They do nothing but ruin people's lives
Complete horseshit. If you actually think that maybe you're the one who's real dumb.
They always add additional charges and upgraded charges on people when they arrest them. Destroy property, inflict pain, some places your landlord is required to evict you if you get charged with certain crimes even if you're later find not guilty or plead down to what you actually did. Getting arrested will quite literally ruin your life and that's their literal job.
Everything I don't like is Russia!
I wish. There was that one cop was put away for defending a woman from SA a year after snitching on his fellow officers. His laywer said never heard of jail time for 1st time misdominer. They literally put him in a cell with a known cop killer. Who said naa this is one of the good ones.
This one time a bad thing happened so now its OK to advocate murder
Sure, all the police violence incidents are "individual outliers". /s
Can you think in anything more nuanced than anecdotes and sweeping generalizations? Got anything better than a strawman to respond with?
Why would I think of something better than a strawman when replying to a strawman?
As I said in another post: Cops protect the bourgeois, white-supremacist, colonialist, patriarchal state by enacting violence on the ruled class. That's not a judgement: it's their purpose in the system.
Individuals with bully-like personalities self-select into that job, while decent people are actively shunned. Because group cohesion is more important than "doing the right thing".
Why do you defend cops so much?
Because they are a bootlicker
Oh no, I'm American and just been walked through the system too many times to believe in it. They're terrorists and calling themselves your protectors.
Is there context? Like is there someone in particular this is about? Or just in general?
The only good cop...
US centric, here in Europe nobody wishes Cops dead.
That's not true. ACAB everywhere, including Europe.
yeah but cops don't go round killing people so people don't go round thinking about killing cops. The system's just as corrupt but it stops short of murder.
Well, cops are responsible for quite a few murders/homicides over here and I'm quite sure that the intention of the meme is quite as crass.
A bit brutal. I know it’s just a meme, but I don’t think them dying is the answer. We can be better, we can do better
I don’t really mind if you disagree because sadly cops will always be a part of modern society. So making them better is important to future generations
Fuck what you call "modern sociey" if it requires cops.
Okay, what about calling it current society? I don’t see current society being able to change this for a long long time
The main function of cops is to protect the bourgeois, white-supremacist, patriarchal, colonialist state. I would like to get rid of the latter, so the former needs to go.
So if and when we make that happen, and we have a society free of that stuff, do we think everything will always be perfect and free of conflict and no one will break the (hopefully much improved) laws? That seems unlikely, so we'll need some kind of way of keeping the order, right? Will it not be the responsibility of a specific job? Will there be people with that job but we won't call them any of the names we currently have for that general job category?
You won't be able to recognise the so-called "justice system" or "order" in that hypothetical society, so no: that job won't exist anymore.
Yes, harm can still be done and this future society should and will find ways to prevent and/or heal that harm. Neither of these things are the police's job, so why should we call that hypothetical job like the old system of violence?
Even if you think that those things are done by the police: do you still call a shoe designer/manufacturer a cobbler?
This is also why no one takes libertarians seriously
What kind of libertarianism? Left, or right-wing?
Your critique is a bit lacking.
What a wonderful imaginary society, amazing that you'll solve all violence and crime, truly unbelievable
Strawman. I literally said that "harm can still be done".
You must live in a very privileged bubble to think like that
Why?
The idea that people can live without some form of policing is ricidulous once you've seen some of the darker parts of humanity. Visit Haiti, Somalia, slums just about anywhere on the planet.
You sound like some 22 year old with a couple years of higher education, and now you think you have all the answers.
some form of policing = modern cops apparently
You sound like a child who still believes what they told you in Paw Patrol.
So... do you know any of the history of Somalia and Haiti? How they got into that situation?
The best cop; officer down
Save a life. Shoot a cop.
That just makes cops more paranoid and thus more likely to shoot someone who isn't a threat.
Huh, you sound like a cop...
I see a lot of people in this thread justifying murder when that's REALLY not what's needed. That will just lead to the only people willing to be cops is maniacs with a gun (who are NOT in short supply) when we really need cops who can take a moment and think.
Those people are actively filtered out by police.
It's not hard to make it through the application process as a compassionate, clever person.
It's just hard to stay employed while butting heads with supervisors that aren't, and the public sends you thoughts and prayers from the sidelines. Sure, they'll riot when evil cops are caught doing evil stuff, but they do absolutely nothing to notice or stop good cops from getting forced out.
Source: My time in law enforcement and my interactions with the public on Reddit where I told my story.
We need to murder the concept of cops as we know them today. That's the only murder we need. No individual's death will fix a fucked up system, gotta kill the system itself.
People will not have any interest in going without law enforcement for X days/weeks/months/years while you reboot everything.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitol_Hill_Occupied_Protest
Well, I'd realistically suggest a slow strangle while we build up the alternative in tandem, maybe not "murder", but I opted to use the wording of the poster I replied to.
What would the alternative be? I have never heard of a realistic solution that will be anywhere near the Overton Window and also backed up by data. Again, the last time Americans went without cops (CHAZ), it was a total disaster that "replaced" cops with people who did a far worse job when tasked with the same responsibilities.
I'm not criticizing your use of the word "murder."
Re: murder, it was more a personal clarification hahah, murder implies a swift execution, versus a slow change.
I do not claim to have the solution. That's outside of my area of expertise. What I can say is that the implementation of policing we have now is failing, and I'd rather move towards something new than spin my wheels now.
I can also say that, with how everything else in our society is organized, our current system of policing is probably the most practical. Any kind of change to it will likely be predicated on many other facets of society changing first or in tandem. I have no illusions that it'll be an easy change.
That sounds like my kind of accelerationism. Eventually cops will have to be dramatically changed.
Is this a quote from 1894 or 2024?
Did I actually incidentally quote something again?
Yeah... the fed-posting isn't good. However, the current system of policing, and the entire rotten criminal justice system, is a system of oppression, is responsible immense amounts of pain and suffering, and can't be saved by just hiring better people. Cruelty (and upholding hierarchy) is the point.
I maintain that firing bad people and hiring good people is the only realistic way to increase the Good:Bad ratio high enough that many of these problems will evaporate.
My guess is its Kremlin propaganda, the same divisive stuff they pushed during the George Floyd riots
No man, there is plenty of organic distrust of the police here. The whole legal industry is fucked.
Sure, that's how they work. They find a crack and use a wedge.
It's not a crack. This is a grand canyon scale chasm. The decline of the opinion of the police closely follows the release, and reporting, of crimes, and other unethical behaviors, of police. When BWC first started, it was a boon to the reputation of police. However, as the general public has been more able to record police themselves, which strips the police's control of the who, when, how, and editing, of the recordings the public sees, the opposite effect started to happen. Now the police are working, furiously, to prevent people from recording them, from publicly releasing recordings of police for various reasons, making it harder, if not impossible, to attain BWC footage, and straight-up stopping the use of BWC. A lot more than that is going on. There has been a deluge of leaks of internal communications, amongst authorities, across the country, that are clearly stating that the cops should continue using unconstitutional practices, and that the government, at least locally, would have their backs. Then there is the leaking of footage from some of the most popular training regimes, and conferences, for police that are way out of line, showing they are clearly being trained to view the entire public as the enemy, and that it is fine to kill people, because the cop going home at the end of the shift, is the most important thing there is. This is just the tip of the iceberg of reasons why the police are losing favor.
The police, the courts, the legislature, are who is responsible for the public outcry against the police. Not Russia, not China, not any foreign power.
Get help, you are literally paranoid
No, you're ignorant.
You are a literal idiot. You see Russia everywhere, why the fuck would Russia spend their time on lemmy, we're barely 40k monthly users, they can hit that on any other social media server in one second instead of actively working on here. You're so propagandized by the empire that you live that you think Russia, a total and complete shit hole that can't do anything right is some how masterminding the destruction where you are from. It is fucking absolutely ridiculous and it is pathetic you believe this shit.
I'm not an idiot, but you are an asshole.
You'd have to be a real dumb piece of shit to be a cop. They enforce unjust laws on people for a paycheck and brainwash themselves into thinking the general public is the enemy. They do nothing but ruin people's lives. I'd rather they go after employers and landlords who rob people blind. I'd rather have free access to healthcare than their "protection" I'd rather fend for myself than give up all of my rights in exchange for a false sense of security.
Yeah, I agree a lot of them are kind of dumb, many of them are power tripping assholes. Doesn't mean people should be ADVOCATING FOR THEIR FUCKING MURDER.
Complete horseshit. If you actually think that maybe you're the one who's real dumb.
They always add additional charges and upgraded charges on people when they arrest them. Destroy property, inflict pain, some places your landlord is required to evict you if you get charged with certain crimes even if you're later find not guilty or plead down to what you actually did. Getting arrested will quite literally ruin your life and that's their literal job.
Everything I don't like is Russia!
I wish. There was that one cop was put away for defending a woman from SA a year after snitching on his fellow officers. His laywer said never heard of jail time for 1st time misdominer. They literally put him in a cell with a known cop killer. Who said naa this is one of the good ones.
This one time a bad thing happened so now its OK to advocate murder
Sure, all the police violence incidents are "individual outliers". /s
Can you think in anything more nuanced than anecdotes and sweeping generalizations? Got anything better than a strawman to respond with?
Why would I think of something better than a strawman when replying to a strawman?
As I said in another post: Cops protect the bourgeois, white-supremacist, colonialist, patriarchal state by enacting violence on the ruled class. That's not a judgement: it's their purpose in the system.
Individuals with bully-like personalities self-select into that job, while decent people are actively shunned. Because group cohesion is more important than "doing the right thing".
Why do you defend cops so much?
Because they are a bootlicker
Oh no, I'm American and just been walked through the system too many times to believe in it. They're terrorists and calling themselves your protectors.
Is there context? Like is there someone in particular this is about? Or just in general?
The only good cop...
US centric, here in Europe nobody wishes Cops dead.
That's not true. ACAB everywhere, including Europe.
yeah but cops don't go round killing people so people don't go round thinking about killing cops. The system's just as corrupt but it stops short of murder.
Well, cops are responsible for quite a few murders/homicides over here and I'm quite sure that the intention of the meme is quite as crass.
A bit brutal. I know it’s just a meme, but I don’t think them dying is the answer. We can be better, we can do better
I don’t really mind if you disagree because sadly cops will always be a part of modern society. So making them better is important to future generations
Fuck what you call "modern sociey" if it requires cops.
Okay, what about calling it current society? I don’t see current society being able to change this for a long long time
The main function of cops is to protect the bourgeois, white-supremacist, patriarchal, colonialist state. I would like to get rid of the latter, so the former needs to go.
So if and when we make that happen, and we have a society free of that stuff, do we think everything will always be perfect and free of conflict and no one will break the (hopefully much improved) laws? That seems unlikely, so we'll need some kind of way of keeping the order, right? Will it not be the responsibility of a specific job? Will there be people with that job but we won't call them any of the names we currently have for that general job category?
You won't be able to recognise the so-called "justice system" or "order" in that hypothetical society, so no: that job won't exist anymore.
Yes, harm can still be done and this future society should and will find ways to prevent and/or heal that harm. Neither of these things are the police's job, so why should we call that hypothetical job like the old system of violence?
Even if you think that those things are done by the police: do you still call a shoe designer/manufacturer a cobbler?
This is also why no one takes libertarians seriously
What kind of libertarianism? Left, or right-wing?
Your critique is a bit lacking.
What a wonderful imaginary society, amazing that you'll solve all violence and crime, truly unbelievable
Strawman. I literally said that "harm can still be done".
You must live in a very privileged bubble to think like that
Why?
The idea that people can live without some form of policing is ricidulous once you've seen some of the darker parts of humanity. Visit Haiti, Somalia, slums just about anywhere on the planet.
You sound like some 22 year old with a couple years of higher education, and now you think you have all the answers.
some form of policing = modern cops apparently
You sound like a child who still believes what they told you in Paw Patrol.
So... do you know any of the history of Somalia and Haiti? How they got into that situation?
Is she stabbing herself?
*Dismissive wanking gesture*
This is the Trump dance i believe?
They could not be cops, in which case... They wouldn't be cops
"Your truths make me uncomfortable, please stop"
No, its just stupid. But no surprise to see a Lemmy.ml account here promoting this divisive crap
Cops don't seem to understand much except when a thing is alive or dead. This is the only kind of message that will get through to all of them.
Fwiw, I agree with you.
Same, people promoting this are close minded and shortsighted
Unlike you. You are so smart and enlightened. /s
Compared to the morons here encouraging murder, yeah
Where?
Yeah this thread and its commenters are acting like cops
"I dislike cops because they shoot people to solve a crisis. Anyway, let's shoot people about this crisis." - a lot of people, apparently
Thank you.
Imagine being so diluted that you think all cops should die.
The only good cop is a dead cop