I dunno if I'd compare Marvel to Shōnen. I'd say Avatar: TLA is a hamburger shōnen.
Marvel is totally shounen, it has pretty much all the hallmarks of a shounen.
You absolutely aren’t wrong but it is a big step away from the comparison to spaghetti westerns. Avatar or RWBY is an American shonen in the same way that A Fistful of Dollars is an Italian western. Marvel is an American shonen in the same way that Seven Samurai is a Japanese western. In the former while some stylistic differences appear you could easily not be aware of the nation of origin until you learn the stylistic differences. In the latter you can’t mistake it. Seven Samurai is drenched in Japan like marvel is drenched in America. It’s easier to watch seven samurai and not know it’s a western than to not know it’s Japanese.
I also think an important thing is that spaghetti western kinda defined the western genre. Whereas Marvel sort of fits under the shonen umbrella.
Oh absolutely. Like all the iconic ones are spaghetti as fuck. Nobody understands westerns like Italian communists
Since anime was inspired by Disney and other western animation wouldn’t they be called “sushi cartoons” in this naming scheme? The superhero genre is older than the whole anime industry after all.
Not sure where you got this from... Most Animes are based on Mangas (comic books). And they existed long before Disney.
Choju-giga
What many believed were the very first manga in Japan appeared in the 12th and 13th century, in a series of drawings like frogs and rabbits titled Choju-giga (Scrolls of Frolicking Animals) produced by several artists.
Disney was founded on October 16, 1923, by brothers Walt Disney and Roy Disney as Disney Brothers Studio
Disney inspired “modern” (Post-WW2) manga, the style that actually got popular. Big eyes, exaggerated reactions and whatnot.
Manga is based on cave drawings, the first cave drawings date back to 40,000 BC
cave drawings are based on real life, which has existed for much longer
The concept of animating comics could still be inspired by Disney. Even if they use japanese comics instead if american comics.
The artstyle of US comics and ad posters was inspired by impressionism, which in turn was inspired by Japanese woodcuts.
The circle of life, etc.
The superhero genre in comics, but are superhero cartoons older than anime?
If you count anime as any animation from Japan then no. From my research it looks like the first animated Japanese film was a propaganda film released in 1945.
If you consider the aesthetic commonly known as “anime” today then yes because the first Superman cartoon came out in 1966 while “modern anime” had it’s begins in the 70s.
The first superhero cartoons were the Fleischer Superman shorts from 1941-42. Fantastic pieces of animation and available in the public domain, by the way, and a lot more important to Superman's mythos than many may think (they invented and cemented his power of flight). Anyway, it's a no either way.
I am totally for calling superhero films Hamburger Shonen
Although hamburgers and hot dogs are from Hamburg and Frankfort Frankfurt, respectively.
PBJs and apple pie are pretty American.
Hamburgers are American, invented by German Immigrants
Although hamburgers and hot dogs are from Hamburg and Frankfort, respectively.
They were actually both invented in the USA. Germany had similar dishes (e.g. whatever meat or fish available in a bread roll), but they aren't quite the same. Seems like it's a bit of a Döner / Kebab story.
Apple pies are german I believe
Apple pies are found wherever apples and pies are traditional foods
Europe had mastered the pastry when the US was just getting started, so they had strudel and hand tarts and stuff. Brits made cobblers, brought to the US. Brown Betty was invented here.
We could call them gridiron wuxia movies (such as Star Wars ) since gridiron football is a weird American thing.
Chili and Corn Pone Shounen
Peanut Butter and Jam/Jelly sandwiches are definitely a US thing. So weird.
Imagine the complaints about racism if that happened today.
As an Italian, I just think it’s cool that we have a “separate” subgenre, doesn’t matter how it’s called.
I dunno if I'd compare Marvel to Shōnen. I'd say Avatar: TLA is a hamburger shōnen.
Marvel is totally shounen, it has pretty much all the hallmarks of a shounen.
You absolutely aren’t wrong but it is a big step away from the comparison to spaghetti westerns. Avatar or RWBY is an American shonen in the same way that A Fistful of Dollars is an Italian western. Marvel is an American shonen in the same way that Seven Samurai is a Japanese western. In the former while some stylistic differences appear you could easily not be aware of the nation of origin until you learn the stylistic differences. In the latter you can’t mistake it. Seven Samurai is drenched in Japan like marvel is drenched in America. It’s easier to watch seven samurai and not know it’s a western than to not know it’s Japanese.
I also think an important thing is that spaghetti western kinda defined the western genre. Whereas Marvel sort of fits under the shonen umbrella.
Oh absolutely. Like all the iconic ones are spaghetti as fuck. Nobody understands westerns like Italian communists
Since anime was inspired by Disney and other western animation wouldn’t they be called “sushi cartoons” in this naming scheme? The superhero genre is older than the whole anime industry after all.
Not sure where you got this from... Most Animes are based on Mangas (comic books). And they existed long before Disney.
Disney inspired “modern” (Post-WW2) manga, the style that actually got popular. Big eyes, exaggerated reactions and whatnot.
Manga is based on cave drawings, the first cave drawings date back to 40,000 BC
cave drawings are based on real life, which has existed for much longer
The concept of animating comics could still be inspired by Disney. Even if they use japanese comics instead if american comics.
The artstyle of US comics and ad posters was inspired by impressionism, which in turn was inspired by Japanese woodcuts.
The circle of life, etc.
The superhero genre in comics, but are superhero cartoons older than anime?
If you count anime as any animation from Japan then no. From my research it looks like the first animated Japanese film was a propaganda film released in 1945.
If you consider the aesthetic commonly known as “anime” today then yes because the first Superman cartoon came out in 1966 while “modern anime” had it’s begins in the 70s.
The first superhero cartoons were the Fleischer Superman shorts from 1941-42. Fantastic pieces of animation and available in the public domain, by the way, and a lot more important to Superman's mythos than many may think (they invented and cemented his power of flight). Anyway, it's a no either way.
I am totally for calling superhero films Hamburger Shonen
Although hamburgers and hot dogs are from Hamburg and
FrankfortFrankfurt, respectively.PBJs and apple pie are pretty American.
Hamburgers are American, invented by German Immigrants
https://toriavey.com/a-brief-history-of-hamburgers/#:~:text=A%20common%20misconception%20is%20that,raised%20in%20the%20regional%20countryside.
https://burgertheoryidahofalls.com/who-invented-the-burger-the-surprising-history-of-americas-favorite-food/#:~:text=The%20origins%20of%20the%20burger,late%201800s%20or%20early%201900s.
https://charbarhhi.com/take-a-bite-out-of-history-the-origin-of-the-hamburger/#:~:text=Being%20the%20butcher%20who%20gave,to%20call%20his%20sandwich%3A%20Hamburger.
Apple pies are British, btw
It's Frankfurt ackchyually. From the German word "Furt" which is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_(crossing)
corrected.
They were actually both invented in the USA. Germany had similar dishes (e.g. whatever meat or fish available in a bread roll), but they aren't quite the same. Seems like it's a bit of a Döner / Kebab story.
Apple pies are german I believe
Apple pies are found wherever apples and pies are traditional foods
Europe had mastered the pastry when the US was just getting started, so they had strudel and hand tarts and stuff. Brits made cobblers, brought to the US. Brown Betty was invented here.
We could call them gridiron wuxia movies (such as Star Wars ) since gridiron football is a weird American thing.
Chili and Corn Pone Shounen
Peanut Butter and Jam/Jelly sandwiches are definitely a US thing. So weird.
Imagine the complaints about racism if that happened today.
As an Italian, I just think it’s cool that we have a “separate” subgenre, doesn’t matter how it’s called.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyu2jAD6sdo
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https://piped.video/watch?v=zyu2jAD6sdo
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All of these comments are hilarious.
Spaghetti Westerns are the superior Westerns, you can't change my mind