Google Chrome's Web Environment Integrity feature has been cancelled
9to5google.com
While WEI is thankfully cancelled, it's not entirely cancelled... They're planning on making it available still in WebViews with the intention that websites can check if a malicious Android app is trying to do a phishing scheme.
Seems like such a niche "security" feature... what are they really trying to accomplish here? Something seems fishy to me
this is not cancellation. This is Google taking a step back, and regroup to attack back.
Its a common practice to do exactly that. Just demand something very absurd and let people rage about it, then "step back" to "please the masses" while in reality your "step back" idea is the thing you actually wanted to do from the beginning on. But now people are happy about it.
I learned that as a negotiation tactic. Pick the number you want to get, then ask for more. The counter will likely be around what you wanted!
They care about one thing only: Money.
Obviously this is more of a strategic retreat and nothing else. It's also a very common tactic to push for something crass, pull back, wait a bit and repeat. Most commonly resistance gets weaker each time, because people are people.
Now if anyone thinks they made money with a retreat and won't try again, because it's obviously much more lucrative, which stone exactly are you living under?
You are 100% correct. Nothing is won till you make it impossible for Google to push forward or destroy their motivation for trying again later.
Ah yes, the old Unity Trick™.
If they can't storm the front door, then try to sneak in through the back door I guess.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Door-in-the-face_technique
Ha, I didn't know there's a name for that, but it's definitely what I assume they're going to do. My initial reaction was to wonder what they'll now present as the "reasonable" option to WEI.
Considering they're rolling it out in Android, maybe they'll just wait a moment and then integrate it into desktop Chrome as well, just without any of the fanfare?
It's a good thing that people are calling out their deception.
I would never agree with what Google proposes, though
You may not, but you'd be surprised with how many people didn't even care about WEI, let alone whatever the reasonable option will be
They grew thanks to the open internet where everyone let them scrape their website’s content. They can’t let anyone do that again.
Sure it isn't. * Wink wink nudge nudge*
It'll be back. With a different name and modified messaging.
That probably would've been true even if they did follow through.
@dean @rysiek For now... they'll bring it back with a new coat of paint and a new name within the next year.
@macleod @dean @rysiek they already started, they want to put it in android now: https://android-developers.googleblog.com/2023/11/increasing-trust-for-embedded-media.html?m=1
@4censord @dean @rysiek I can see where they could integrate and feature creep to what they really likely want, but in terms of webviews this would likely be beneficial for security.
They want to put it on the default webview in android, which doesn't seem like a huge deal to me. It would basically let apps that use webview for things like logging in beef up their security.
It's not like the entire concept of this API was bad, it's just that with Google's proposed implementation companies would abuse the fuck out of it to do bad things. Not having it in browsers pretty much eliminates that while still letting things like banking apps enjoy some of the benefits.
We did it!
Specifically, everyone who's not using Chrome and its derivates did it. Use Firefox, people.
That's what Google want you to believe, forget about and step back. It's not over yet. We just stopped the first wave and it will get harder with each wave.
@dean @lisamelton One of the reasons I don’t use Chrome. Here, they’ve revealed what they are working towards. They’ll try again.
@kevinbhayes @dean You are correct. They will try again. 💯
People here really can't just accept a win
A win is when we have forced them to abandon the wretched plan. Them taking it elsewhere with a different name, only to be brought back in the future isn't a win - it's more or less the folly the Trojans committed with the Greek wooden horse.
It's a much less broad, though. That's a win right?
I don't trust Google's word that they will keep it that way. Besides, would you have accepted this proposal if WEI wasn't proposed first? It's a form of manipulation.
Sites inside webviews can already communicate with the app running them, I don't see how this proposal in this form causes any additional problems
The same can be said about WEI on browsers. Just wait till it becomes a problem - only problem is that you won't be able to escape it at that point.
Except websites can't just communicate directly with the OS like they can in webviews
I'm convinced people on Lemmy just want to be miserable all the time.
We have won the battle, but the war is not over. If one is tired, he or she could employ escapism. But don't blame or poke those, who don't do that.
Damn? Really?
Nope. It's getting integrated into Android WebView.
Daaamn poor GrapheneOS devs...
As someone who uses GrapheneOS but knows very little about the technical side of things, what implications does this have for the OS? I'll actually just not use a smartphone anymore if I'm going to be forced back onto the privacy nightmare that is stock Android.
They will strip out the DRM part, maybe. GrapheneOS, other than even Firefox or any Linux Distro, has many DRM packages installed. Widevine and lots of others.
So it may be that they dont even remove it from the Vanadium Webview. But if they do, Apps may break as the Developers looove the extra control. And then GrapheneOS needs to do annoying work again, to for example have a sandboxed Webview-DRM app that can be enabled per-App.
It means a bunch of work to undo all the things Google is about to do
I'd expect them to support basic integrity. They already do that for apps, so no reason to not expand it. It'd break compatibility.
Since they don't (want) to offer a way to circumvent the basic integrity check right now, I don't see why they would undo the expansion into the webview.
I don't know about graphene, but doesn't some android roms allow to use custom ( more private Webview implementations) instead of default ?
Yes, they provide these Webviews, meaning they get a shitload of work probably, to remove that DRM BS. Until random apps (like all those Playstore apps) stop working on non-DRM webview... yay!
Like, there are already services that just work with apps. If these apps dont work anymore, well...
Even on "stock" android (at least the Pixel version) the option is there in the developer settings.
Like, you can switch some, but idk how you install a second one
if you root, you can install open webview module.
currently using mulch webview and updating it in f-droid
Yeah I did that too. Mulch or Vanadium, I would recommend Vanadium. Bromite is dead. Cromite maybe, but really just use Vanadium its the most degoogled and secure one.
But apart from that, the developer options make no sense if there is no way to actually install one without root.
Also, openwebview replaces the installed one, doesnt it?
It does replace system webview.
Both Vanadium and Mulch are powerful. Mulch is Divest os default vebview and is using Vanadium patches. While the Vanadium is Graphene one.
https://gitlab.com/divested-mobile/mulch
https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Vanadium
I stick with Mulch, because I added divest repo to Droidify, so I can upgrade webview as soon new update comes out. No need to wait for module update.
Haven't found a good way to easily update Vanadium. On XDA module's thread you can read about it.
https://xdaforums.com/t/magisk-module-webview-open-webview-2-3-1.4496119/
Yeah I know the projects. GrapheneOS hates F-Droid which is annoying, but I am 100% sure its the more secure and complete OS. DivestOS probably has more user-facing features.
I think every Custom ROM should build on top of GrapheneOS, extend the device list (with worse security but only for some threat models) and add better apps.
Here you get the GrapheneOS apps (very few): https://github.com/GrapheneOS/Apps/releases
GrapheneOSses Appstore might be able to update the webview?
Chromium comes with a webview APK, but I couldn't find one for Firefox / gecko
Firefox doesnt provide a webview for some reason.
Its really shitty, because it could be a better standard for webapps on Linux too. But now we have electron, which is basically compatible with firefox as its web technology
the concept is good in theory; the reasoning was not.
Give Sundar a raise ? Finally he made a good decision.