Peaceful... until the cops show up and get violent with the protestors.
Bingo. Cops excel in escalation.
They’re thoroughly trained in deescalation tactics, then use inverse language to justify self defense and charges.
Honestly that's kinda optimistic compared to reality.
Warrior cop training needs to fucking stop.
Absolutely. The “identify and neutralize threats” approach is a huge problem, but that’s not the strategy they use for escalation. They don’t flex overt authority to incite a reaction. They use manipulative tactics and false representation of the victim’s language or behavior to frustrate and confuse them into overreaction. I’ve been through enough deescalation training to recognize the inverse tactics they frequently use in altercations.
We see the same escalation tactics in some European countries, where Police gets a 2-3 years training plus regular on the job training. They know exactly what and how they are doing it.
this is what always makes me insane. police presence inherently increases tension because oh now here's a gang of jackbooted thugs with guns and tasers and the power to ruin your life and/or murder you and get away with it, just hangin out. just tryna keep people safe.
i mean that shit must only work on the boomeriest boomers, right? that would only help at a particularly rowdy Kenny Chesney concert
It kind of sucks that having literal video proof of how it all went down doesn't actually matter. They just say whatever they want, and so many people will never look into it, just take their word.
Too bad Biden and other "moderates" Dems care about as much about facts and logics as trump does.
Their donors want them to shit on protestors, so that's what they'll do.
Biden's going to fuck around and let trump win because he can't stand up to Israel.
As of right now he is still blocking that dumb bomb weapon shipment.
Should he have done it sooner? Absolutely, but it is a step at least, now let’s see what happens when push comes to shove.
I may just be to cynical at this point but I don't trust that at all. It's just a pause.
Biden has structured that block as a "Type 2" decision. It creates the illusion of standing up to Israel but it allows him to instantly and unilaterally completely reverse it as soon as public attention has shifted.
Given history, I expect that's exactly what will happen. Once the IDF murders enough people in Rafah, they'll be "done". Then they can pretend that they've turned over a new leaf and definitely won't do any more genocide. Biden will congratulate them and resume all the weapons shipments, including sending the stuff that's currently being held back.
Short of restructuring this as a "Type 1" decision, there's little reason to think this is anything beyond theatrics.
Like I said, let’s what happens when push comes to shove
They've already started shooting into Rafah. That was the safe zone they told everyone to go to.
What push or shove are we waiting for? The start of the full scale invasion? The conclusion of a full scale invasion? Is there some number of civilians deaths that would be too much?
Yeah that happened after I typed that, plus let’s just tariff the fuck out of ev’s because someone else can make them cheaper
Sorry. I wasn't paying attention to the timestamps.
Don’t feel bad it was barely 24 hours old.
Shits moving fast
[serious] why are there so many 'moderate' biden stans on this site (not you, but generally)? i thought lemmy was the sort of leftist reddit alternative
Because it's a misrepresentation of people defending Biden and leftist in general.
Just because someone defends Biden doesn't mean they support him. There's a lot of hyperbolic invective being directed at him. And he definitely has himself to blame for some of it. Expediting CONGRESS'S shipment of arms to Israel. And trying to stay as neutral and diplomatic as possible in the face of the horrors Israel is unleashing.
It seems suspicious how narrow the focus is on him however. With literally no one pestering their Congress critters who could actually do something about all of this. Sure we should pressure Biden to lead better. But if people actually wanted to get things done and not just virtue signal, they'd be yelling at Congress more.
And finally leftist != accelerationist. Some, like ML know their ideology isn't an actual improvement over capitalism. That the only way they could convince people to switch to their ideology is to destroy and degrade things much like capitalists do to other countries. But plenty of us lefties think both of them are wrong and pragmatically try to work to make things better.
Biden is the face of the Democrats. He is the president of the country and the supposedly strongest leader in the world.
Of course the focus is on him. In the same way when you talk about the French government the focus is on Macron, or talking about Ukraine it is Zelensky, talking about Germany it is Scholz and talking about China it is Xi.
All of these have different levels of formal power, all of them have different political systems, but all of them are expected to lead, to organize their political power and to take responsibility for the work of their administrations.
I can't stand biden or the dems, and I would rather have lobster's chew on my balls than vote repub. But at the end of the day, trump would hand the keys to gaza and the west bank over to Israel and gladly sweep the blood under the welcome mat.... he'd do the exact same with Ukraine and russia...so while I can't stand the blue team, we're going to get the world on fire if trump and repubs are elected. Anyone who thinks that trump is worth the gamble is full on delusional.
Anyone who thinks that trump is worth the gamble is full on delusional.
these Anyone are primarily the Biden administration, the DNC and the Israel supporters in the party. They'd rather want Trump to take over the country, than stand up to Israel and uphold international and US law.
Anyone who thinks that trump is worth the gamble is full on delusional.
Exactly.
So please try to help me convince the DNC that Biden isnt popular enough to feel safe in the election.
Especially when he won't stop funding a genocide.
Biden needs to stop fucking around and listen to his voters so he doesn't pull a Hillary.
He can't just do whatever the fuck he wants and tell voters they have to actively vote for him or trump wins
It's literally the opposite of how to run a campaign.
The fucking convention hasn't even happened yet, but we've been told for like 5 months it's too late anyways
I am not exactly thrilled with Biden but Trump would absolutely be far, far, far, far worse. For America, the world and definitely Palestinians. I have zero doubt about that.
So why is the DNC preferring a Trump win over standing up to Israel and ending the genocide?
They paused one weapons shipment. Still the pledge of another 26 Billion US-D in military aid stand. Still other shipments are going through. Still the US does not impose any sanctions on Israel. Just a few hours earlier they also voted against and attacked an UN vote to make Palestine an UN member. The Israeli ambassador to the UN shredded the UN Charta to show what he thinks of the UN. That is what the US is still supporting.
Don't buy into the minimal effort they do for damage control. It is a first step and to be acknowledged as that, but if no further steps follow, then it is clear to only be a lip service.
Biden has supported the protests and only condemned breaking the law and antisemitism along with Islamophobia. Which as president, he should. Specifically he spoke out when protesters took over Hamilton Hall.
condemned breaking the law
really novel stuff here. thank god we have a competent president there to say breaking the law is bad
also
We can never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in
Hungary was "illegal." It was "illegal" to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler's Germany. But I am sure that if I had lived in Germany
during that time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers even though it was illegal. If I lived in a Communist
country today where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I believe I would openly advocate disobeying
these anti-religious laws.
What support did he provide to the protests?
Too bad Biden and other “moderates” Dems care about as much about facts and logics as trump does.
Liberals on lemmy seeing any criticism asking Biden be held accountable for decisions Biden makes:
Accurate post
if Biden were running against Sanders or… like, potentially anybody at all
Yeah the whole point of me saying that was to lightening rod the downvotes from the op so that the comment didn't get downvoted into oblivion (it was on its way).
Beware the white moderate. They are not your friend.
Which definition of liberal are you using?
Did they say "liberal" and then edit it?
They didn't edit it and it still says that...
Hah. I thought it was responding to the first comment. Yeah, they're dumb.
I’m pretty sure the mainstream media has a different take that they’d like for me to buy. Didn’t a foreign leader say antisemitism is running rampant? He certainly doesn’t have an agenda!
This surprises me exactly zero.
There was also former Israeli military and intelligence employees boasting about being in the mob that riled up and attacked the peaceful encampments. But sure no problem to have foreign agents stir riots in your country
I suppose hurling racial slurs at Jewish students doesn't constitute violence.
Anecdotes so few and far between, meanwhile the anti-zionist movement is absolutely flooded with jewish voices. A narrative to dismiss protests, designed to resists hard evidence...like the article you are ignoring here.
Peaceful... until the cops show up and get violent with the protestors.
Bingo. Cops excel in escalation.
They’re thoroughly trained in deescalation tactics, then use inverse language to justify self defense and charges.
Honestly that's kinda optimistic compared to reality.
Warrior cop training needs to fucking stop.
Absolutely. The “identify and neutralize threats” approach is a huge problem, but that’s not the strategy they use for escalation. They don’t flex overt authority to incite a reaction. They use manipulative tactics and false representation of the victim’s language or behavior to frustrate and confuse them into overreaction. I’ve been through enough deescalation training to recognize the inverse tactics they frequently use in altercations.
We see the same escalation tactics in some European countries, where Police gets a 2-3 years training plus regular on the job training. They know exactly what and how they are doing it.
this is what always makes me insane. police presence inherently increases tension because oh now here's a gang of jackbooted thugs with guns and tasers and the power to ruin your life and/or murder you and get away with it, just hangin out. just tryna keep people safe.
i mean that shit must only work on the boomeriest boomers, right? that would only help at a particularly rowdy Kenny Chesney concert
It kind of sucks that having literal video proof of how it all went down doesn't actually matter. They just say whatever they want, and so many people will never look into it, just take their word.
Too bad Biden and other "moderates" Dems care about as much about facts and logics as trump does.
Their donors want them to shit on protestors, so that's what they'll do.
Biden's going to fuck around and let trump win because he can't stand up to Israel.
Should he have done it sooner? Absolutely, but it is a step at least, now let’s see what happens when push comes to shove.
I may just be to cynical at this point but I don't trust that at all. It's just a pause.
Biden has structured that block as a "Type 2" decision. It creates the illusion of standing up to Israel but it allows him to instantly and unilaterally completely reverse it as soon as public attention has shifted.
Given history, I expect that's exactly what will happen. Once the IDF murders enough people in Rafah, they'll be "done". Then they can pretend that they've turned over a new leaf and definitely won't do any more genocide. Biden will congratulate them and resume all the weapons shipments, including sending the stuff that's currently being held back.
Short of restructuring this as a "Type 1" decision, there's little reason to think this is anything beyond theatrics.
Like I said, let’s what happens when push comes to shove
They've already started shooting into Rafah. That was the safe zone they told everyone to go to.
What push or shove are we waiting for? The start of the full scale invasion? The conclusion of a full scale invasion? Is there some number of civilians deaths that would be too much?
Yeah that happened after I typed that, plus let’s just tariff the fuck out of ev’s because someone else can make them cheaper
Sorry. I wasn't paying attention to the timestamps.
Don’t feel bad it was barely 24 hours old.
Shits moving fast
[serious] why are there so many 'moderate' biden stans on this site (not you, but generally)? i thought lemmy was the sort of leftist reddit alternative
Because it's a misrepresentation of people defending Biden and leftist in general.
Just because someone defends Biden doesn't mean they support him. There's a lot of hyperbolic invective being directed at him. And he definitely has himself to blame for some of it. Expediting CONGRESS'S shipment of arms to Israel. And trying to stay as neutral and diplomatic as possible in the face of the horrors Israel is unleashing.
It seems suspicious how narrow the focus is on him however. With literally no one pestering their Congress critters who could actually do something about all of this. Sure we should pressure Biden to lead better. But if people actually wanted to get things done and not just virtue signal, they'd be yelling at Congress more.
And finally leftist != accelerationist. Some, like ML know their ideology isn't an actual improvement over capitalism. That the only way they could convince people to switch to their ideology is to destroy and degrade things much like capitalists do to other countries. But plenty of us lefties think both of them are wrong and pragmatically try to work to make things better.
Biden is the face of the Democrats. He is the president of the country and the supposedly strongest leader in the world.
Of course the focus is on him. In the same way when you talk about the French government the focus is on Macron, or talking about Ukraine it is Zelensky, talking about Germany it is Scholz and talking about China it is Xi.
All of these have different levels of formal power, all of them have different political systems, but all of them are expected to lead, to organize their political power and to take responsibility for the work of their administrations.
I can't stand biden or the dems, and I would rather have lobster's chew on my balls than vote repub. But at the end of the day, trump would hand the keys to gaza and the west bank over to Israel and gladly sweep the blood under the welcome mat.... he'd do the exact same with Ukraine and russia...so while I can't stand the blue team, we're going to get the world on fire if trump and repubs are elected. Anyone who thinks that trump is worth the gamble is full on delusional.
these Anyone are primarily the Biden administration, the DNC and the Israel supporters in the party. They'd rather want Trump to take over the country, than stand up to Israel and uphold international and US law.
Exactly.
So please try to help me convince the DNC that Biden isnt popular enough to feel safe in the election.
Especially when he won't stop funding a genocide.
Biden needs to stop fucking around and listen to his voters so he doesn't pull a Hillary.
He can't just do whatever the fuck he wants and tell voters they have to actively vote for him or trump wins
It's literally the opposite of how to run a campaign.
The fucking convention hasn't even happened yet, but we've been told for like 5 months it's too late anyways
I am not exactly thrilled with Biden but Trump would absolutely be far, far, far, far worse. For America, the world and definitely Palestinians. I have zero doubt about that.
So why is the DNC preferring a Trump win over standing up to Israel and ending the genocide?
they, uh... don't?
They paused one weapons shipment. Still the pledge of another 26 Billion US-D in military aid stand. Still other shipments are going through. Still the US does not impose any sanctions on Israel. Just a few hours earlier they also voted against and attacked an UN vote to make Palestine an UN member. The Israeli ambassador to the UN shredded the UN Charta to show what he thinks of the UN. That is what the US is still supporting.
Don't buy into the minimal effort they do for damage control. It is a first step and to be acknowledged as that, but if no further steps follow, then it is clear to only be a lip service.
Biden has supported the protests and only condemned breaking the law and antisemitism along with Islamophobia. Which as president, he should. Specifically he spoke out when protesters took over Hamilton Hall.
really novel stuff here. thank god we have a competent president there to say breaking the law is bad
also
What support did he provide to the protests?
Liberals on lemmy seeing any criticism asking Biden be held accountable for decisions Biden makes:
Accurate post
if Biden were running against Sanders or… like, potentially anybody at all
Yeah the whole point of me saying that was to lightening rod the downvotes from the op so that the comment didn't get downvoted into oblivion (it was on its way).
Beware the white moderate. They are not your friend.
Which definition of liberal are you using?
Did they say "liberal" and then edit it?
They didn't edit it and it still says that...
Hah. I thought it was responding to the first comment. Yeah, they're dumb.
I’m pretty sure the mainstream media has a different take that they’d like for me to buy. Didn’t a foreign leader say antisemitism is running rampant? He certainly doesn’t have an agenda!
This surprises me exactly zero.
There was also former Israeli military and intelligence employees boasting about being in the mob that riled up and attacked the peaceful encampments. But sure no problem to have foreign agents stir riots in your country
Repubes are comparing campus protests to Jan 6th
Additional source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/10/peaceful-pro-palestinian-campus-protests
I suppose hurling racial slurs at Jewish students doesn't constitute violence.
Anecdotes so few and far between, meanwhile the anti-zionist movement is absolutely flooded with jewish voices. A narrative to dismiss protests, designed to resists hard evidence...like the article you are ignoring here.
the zionists are the ones doing that