Nastiness. The clear connection, at its heart, it's nastiness. Lack of compassion. Zero empathy.
Unfortunately it's a little more organized than general nastiness.
You're right, yes.
It’s almost like both the Nazis and the queers have been saying that
Werent the Nazis pro abortion for everyone else?
And LGBTQ were also victims of their genocide.
Like, the largest demographic of victims were Jewish, but there was a bunch of other groups getting the same treatment.
The difference is LGBTQ was hated by both sides. After Alan Turing contributed more to stopping the nazis than probably any other single person, England chemically castrated him due to his sexual preference which likely contributed to his suicide.
Fascists always prioritize the easiest targets first
The jews were also maligned by both sides.
One side fought for them. Or, at the very least, freed them when they won.
What?
The war wasn't fought to stop genocide of any group, it was because Germany and their allies kept invading and attacking other countries.
This is what I'm complaining about.
People learn a feel good version of why WW2 happened in school and run with it. But it's not really that accurate, it's just what we tell kids in school.
So, as I said, at the very least they were freed?
Eh, FDR and other US politicians wanted to enter the war for various reasons, including the oppression of Jews, the attack on Pearl Harbor was a convenient spark for them. (Not saying they plotted it or anything, just they desired to join the war before that, and it gave them a reason to convince the more (largely) pacifism minded public
Eh, FDR and other US politicians wanted to enter the war for various reasons, including the oppression of Jews
And some wanted to join the Axis for the same reasons...
Not just their treatment of Jewish people, but all the groups.
The nazis inspiration for their treatment of targeted demographics was literally American treatment of slaves and indigenous peoples after all.
America didn't join WW2 cause we wanted to wear a cape, the sole reason was Pearl Harbor.
to quote an old reddit comment:
There is no doubt that the US was going to enter the war before Pearl Harbor. Not only was American aid to the Allies massive (and increasing month by month), but the U.S. was already effectively at war with Germany - by mid-1941 American ships were escorting British convoys with orders to shoot German ships/aircraft on sight. There's a reason Hitler declared war on the US when he had no obligation to. Germany and the US were already in direct conflict.
While it did cross into the majority of Americans (68%) thinking we should join the Allies, it was due to the belief Germany wouldn't stop with Europe.
Interventionists believed the United States did have good reasons to get involved in World War II, particularly in Europe. The democracies of Western Europe, they argued, were a critical line of defense against Hitler’s fast-growing strength. If no European power remained as a check against Nazi Germany, the United States could become isolated in a world where the seas and a significant amount of territory and resources were controlled by a single powerful dictator. It would be, as President Franklin Delano Roosevelt put it, like “living at the point of a gun,” and the buffer provided by the Pacific and Atlantic would be useless.
Pearl Harbor settled the debate on if America would be left alone.
It wasn't for "various reasons".
... Yes for average Americans, yes. Again, I'm talking about FDR and other political leaders
... Yes for average Americans, yes. Again, I'm talking about FDR and other political leaders
I didn't expect you to read the link, that's why I quoted part of it...
But I at least hoped you'd read that
If you refuse to read, there's no point in trying to help you understand anything.
The quoted portion, from my perspective added nothing, but I might of misinterpreted it, so please explain
Probably easier to stick with "at the very least, freed them".
Pearl Harbor was the rallying cry that brought America together (mostly) to fight the Axis powers. Prior to that, isolationist (and Anti-Semitic) groups such as the America First Committee were growing in popularity. To say America was fighting for the Jews in WW2 may be technically correct based on who was responsible for the Holocaust, but it was more the byproduct of who America's enemies were at the time, rather than being a primary motivator. Coming in as the savior to a population being persecuted is rarely the real reason wars are fought.
And the only demographic of victims to get their own country...
To get them out of europe. Anti-semitism was not a purely german thing, they were just the first to resort to genocide.
No, they were not the first. They just the ones who did it so thoroughly we came up with a name for it.
Yes...
I'm sorry, what are you confused about?
Jewish people made up about half the victims, and was the only demographic who then got their own country given to them after it was stolen from the indengious population.
The concept of there being an "indigenous population" on a land that humanity has occupied and fought over for 10000 years is laughable. And stolen? They lost a world war.
The concept of there being an “indigenous population” on a land that humanity has occupied and fought over for 10000 years is laughable
Hold up...
You don't think Africa has any indigenous populations?
You think a random collection of Europeans can say they deserve that land and take it?
Like, that's apartheid South Africa mate... Even modern South Africa doesn't defend that anymore, which is why they're fighting Israel in the courts today.
And stolen? They lost a world war.
What?
Are you saying that you think the native population of Israel fought with the Nazis?
Who told you that?
I don't think you're intentionally spreading misinformation, but that's what you're doing even if you somehow believe it
Not only are you unaware of the Ottoman Empire and its role in the World War 1 but you also forget that said land has been controlled by almost a dozen different empires several of which wipe out the previous inhabitants and installed their own.
They didn't just wipe out the people who lived there and move in new people...
Large scale immigration didn't start happening till ethe mid 1800s when ethically European and Jewish people started immigrating enmass.
Partly because the Ottoman empire was friendly to ethnic and religious minorities.
When Rome first took it over, yeah, lots of people (Jewish and otherwise) were killed. But they werent just Jewish, they were also descended ethnically from people who had lived there for centuries.
Converting to a religion doesn't magically change your ethnicity....
But that's the only way what you're saying makes any sense.
Side note: Germans and German speaking people were slaughtered. The story tellers forgot to tell us about that. Also we might have been misled with a lot of those images presented as Jewish victims.
which likely contributed to his suicide.
remember, it is still unknown if it was actually a suicide at all
Let's just chalk it up to Government murder either way!
His mom believed it was an accident, I have no clue just want to clarify it's not settled
After reading further past the imagery of snow white and crying about the parallels between that and his death and my own experiences as a gay man, thank you. It very well could have been the poorly stored electroplating chemicals stored in his home. He habitually ate an apple before bed and often discarded it not fully eaten. Coroner's notes, when examined by a modern eye, may be more consistent with inhalation than ingestion. He had been off estrogen for a year. He had made a list of things to complete when he went back to work after the holiday weekend.
I should make sure my chemicals are stored properly.
Yep! There's a lot of things that make it entirely possible it was an accident. I also want to clarify, I'm not discounting how abusive the government was to him- just saying we really don't know for sure what happened
A fair assessment. Thank you for widening my perspective! ^_^
His mom believed it was an accident, I have no clue just want to clarify it's not settled
Pretty sure they were pro sterilization of basically anyone not Aryan.
They were pro abortion to 148th trimester adults! Well......if they were jewish (or a handfull of other things)
Not exactly, Nazies take on many forms. American Nazies want more slaves. Minorities need to have more babies... as long as they stay poor and uneducated.
Don't say Nazism when you mean: racism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, discrimination, etc. They are often overlapping, and components of each other, but not the same thing
What do I call the guys marching with swastikas and calling for race war then? Will Nazis get offended if I call non-nazis "nazis"?
Racists, neo-nazis, white nationalists, it depends what they are. Nazi ideology was not just racism, it was inherently tied to a form of economic corporatism.
Do... Do our American Nazis, not want capital corporatism? Because this description of Nazi Germany's economy sounds a lot like trump and the general Republican party.
The changes included privatization of state owned industries, import tariffs, and an attempt to achieve autarky (national economic self-sufficiency). Weekly earnings increased by 19% in real terms from 1933 to 1939, but this was largely due to employees working longer hours, while the hourly wage rates remained close to the lowest levels reached during the Great Depression. In addition, reduced foreign trade meant rationing of consumer goods like poultry, fruit, and clothing for many Germans.
And this sure sounds like how the right acts about our military industrial complex...
The Nazis believed in war as the primary engine of human progress, and argued that the purpose of a country's economy should be to enable that country to fight and win wars of expansion.
And if you want a source, it's like literally the first bit in the article on the economy of Nazi Germany on Wikipedia. With all the sources you like.
And it just keeps going. This next bit sounds like riling up the populace to throw them under the bus and vote against their own self interest by demogoging about The Other. Reminds me of some fucks on the right here in the US. And by some, I mean... Well, I can't name any that aren't like this?
The Nazi government developed a partnership with leading German business interests, who supported the goals of the regime and its war effort in exchange for advantageous contracts, subsidies, and the suppression of the trade union movement. Cartels and monopolies were encouraged at the expense of small businesses, even though the Nazis had received considerable electoral support from small business owners.
If you don't see the parallels, you are either blind or deceitful.
Walks like a goose, swims like a goose, steps like a goose, oop, it's an "Economically Anxious Republican"
Spades are spades, ducks are ducks, Nazis are Nazis.
Okay I'll keep calling them Nazis because they are Nazis. They wave nazi flags, they goosestep like Nazis, they believe in fascism like nazis. Not sure why you're defending the honor of Nazis (or maybe you're defending non-nazi white supremacists), but you pedantry is misplaced.
They wave nazi flags, they goosestep like Nazis, they believe in fascism like nazis.
Of course there are still people who believe in Nazi ideology, but if they believe this: "American Nazies want more slaves. Minorities need to have more babies… as long as they stay poor and uneducated." then they very likely aren't that
Not sure why you’re defending the honor of Nazis (or maybe you’re defending non-nazi white supremacists
Saying a term is inaccurate isn't defending them, you know that, and to suggest it is disingenuous.
Eg.
I don't like pedophiles or serial killers, but calling a one the other is simply inaccurate.
I don't like pedophiles or serial killers, but calling a one the other is simply inaccurate.
This is more like calling a pedophile an ephebophile (a word pedophiles made up to try and get people to stop calling them pedophiles). Birds of a feather flock together.
You are pointlessly splitting hairs simply to be the smartest guy in the room.
You are pointlessly splitting hairs simply to be the smartest guy in the room.
No it's not, it's saying that Nazi doesn't just mean "bad". There are a lot of ideologies I disagree with, that aren't Nazis
No it's not, it's saying that Nazi doesn't just mean "bad".
And you pointing that out is pointless because NatakuNox wasn't saying that. They were pointing out that Nazism has evolved and changed over the last century or so and there are now multiple flavors of Nazi in the world. Some branches of Nazism look different than others. Some branches don't get along with the others. They still call themselves Nazis.
There are a lot of ideologies I disagree with, that aren't Nazis
But there's some that are, right?
If you are not Aryan you can be sterilized WO any problem.
Given the context, I'm assuming this is sarcasm.....at least I HOPE it's sarcasm!!!
My point is, for nazis you can perfectly be sterilized, except if you are Aryan then you can't, so the premise isn't 100% truth..
May 6th, 1933, Date of the first Nazi book burnings. The location, Berlin Institute of Sex Research.
Is a tree connected to its leaves?
I would argue that the connection is a lot older than Nazis. The era around 1250 responded to a nasty wave of the Black death by Christian leaders collaborating to simultaneously fight the population decline by criminalizing abortion friendly midwifery and ostracize and subjugate gender and sexual minorities because they feared the collapse of society due to a population bust. As such what was taught by the church up to that point began to get new connotations. Jewish populations were persecuted and killed as scapegoats for the cause of the plague. Folk medicine women and non-conforming men were killed and condemned for witchcraft. While women stepped up to fill the roles of men during the plague once the population was rebounding their power of place in society was to be broken as the Church leaned on it's misogynistic practices and preached of the dangers to society and the family...
Nazisim is just a more modern echo of well established means to break the power of non compliant of groups who can be scapegoated or subjugated into subservience to Christians who feel threatened, a group that centers nominally celebate and wealthy men whose only contact with women is in a subordinate role.
Nastiness. The clear connection, at its heart, it's nastiness. Lack of compassion. Zero empathy.
Unfortunately it's a little more organized than general nastiness.
You're right, yes.
It’s almost like both the Nazis and the queers have been saying that
Werent the Nazis pro abortion for everyone else?
And LGBTQ were also victims of their genocide.
Like, the largest demographic of victims were Jewish, but there was a bunch of other groups getting the same treatment.
The difference is LGBTQ was hated by both sides. After Alan Turing contributed more to stopping the nazis than probably any other single person, England chemically castrated him due to his sexual preference which likely contributed to his suicide.
Fascists always prioritize the easiest targets first
The jews were also maligned by both sides.
One side fought for them. Or, at the very least, freed them when they won.
What?
The war wasn't fought to stop genocide of any group, it was because Germany and their allies kept invading and attacking other countries.
This is what I'm complaining about.
People learn a feel good version of why WW2 happened in school and run with it. But it's not really that accurate, it's just what we tell kids in school.
So, as I said, at the very least they were freed?
Eh, FDR and other US politicians wanted to enter the war for various reasons, including the oppression of Jews, the attack on Pearl Harbor was a convenient spark for them. (Not saying they plotted it or anything, just they desired to join the war before that, and it gave them a reason to convince the more (largely) pacifism minded public
And some wanted to join the Axis for the same reasons...
Not just their treatment of Jewish people, but all the groups.
The nazis inspiration for their treatment of targeted demographics was literally American treatment of slaves and indigenous peoples after all.
America didn't join WW2 cause we wanted to wear a cape, the sole reason was Pearl Harbor.
to quote an old reddit comment:
There is no doubt that the US was going to enter the war before Pearl Harbor. Not only was American aid to the Allies massive (and increasing month by month), but the U.S. was already effectively at war with Germany - by mid-1941 American ships were escorting British convoys with orders to shoot German ships/aircraft on sight. There's a reason Hitler declared war on the US when he had no obligation to. Germany and the US were already in direct conflict.
More to the point, collaborative war planning had been going on long before Pearl Harbor. [The ABC-1](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S.%E2%80%93British_Staff_Conference_(ABC%E2%80%931\)) Conference for example outlined the broad strokes of Allied strategy for the rest of the war.
There is no reasonable scenario where the US would not have entered the war.
...
Yes, there were plans for if we joined before we joined.
Like, that's what a functional government does, plan things in case they happen.
Only planning for things you know will happen is absolute insanity.
https://www.nationalww2museum.org/war/articles/great-debate
While it did cross into the majority of Americans (68%) thinking we should join the Allies, it was due to the belief Germany wouldn't stop with Europe.
Pearl Harbor settled the debate on if America would be left alone.
It wasn't for "various reasons".
... Yes for average Americans, yes. Again, I'm talking about FDR and other political leaders
... Yes for average Americans, yes. Again, I'm talking about FDR and other political leaders
I didn't expect you to read the link, that's why I quoted part of it...
But I at least hoped you'd read that
If you refuse to read, there's no point in trying to help you understand anything.
The quoted portion, from my perspective added nothing, but I might of misinterpreted it, so please explain
Probably easier to stick with "at the very least, freed them".
Pearl Harbor was the rallying cry that brought America together (mostly) to fight the Axis powers. Prior to that, isolationist (and Anti-Semitic) groups such as the America First Committee were growing in popularity. To say America was fighting for the Jews in WW2 may be technically correct based on who was responsible for the Holocaust, but it was more the byproduct of who America's enemies were at the time, rather than being a primary motivator. Coming in as the savior to a population being persecuted is rarely the real reason wars are fought.
And the only demographic of victims to get their own country...
To get them out of europe. Anti-semitism was not a purely german thing, they were just the first to resort to genocide.
No, they were not the first. They just the ones who did it so thoroughly we came up with a name for it.
Yes...
I'm sorry, what are you confused about?
Jewish people made up about half the victims, and was the only demographic who then got their own country given to them after it was stolen from the indengious population.
The concept of there being an "indigenous population" on a land that humanity has occupied and fought over for 10000 years is laughable. And stolen? They lost a world war.
Hold up...
You don't think Africa has any indigenous populations?
You think a random collection of Europeans can say they deserve that land and take it?
Like, that's apartheid South Africa mate... Even modern South Africa doesn't defend that anymore, which is why they're fighting Israel in the courts today.
What?
Are you saying that you think the native population of Israel fought with the Nazis?
Who told you that?
I don't think you're intentionally spreading misinformation, but that's what you're doing even if you somehow believe it
Not only are you unaware of the Ottoman Empire and its role in the World War 1 but you also forget that said land has been controlled by almost a dozen different empires several of which wipe out the previous inhabitants and installed their own.
They didn't just wipe out the people who lived there and move in new people...
Large scale immigration didn't start happening till ethe mid 1800s when ethically European and Jewish people started immigrating enmass.
Partly because the Ottoman empire was friendly to ethnic and religious minorities.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Jerusalem
When Rome first took it over, yeah, lots of people (Jewish and otherwise) were killed. But they werent just Jewish, they were also descended ethnically from people who had lived there for centuries.
Converting to a religion doesn't magically change your ethnicity....
But that's the only way what you're saying makes any sense.
Side note: Germans and German speaking people were slaughtered. The story tellers forgot to tell us about that. Also we might have been misled with a lot of those images presented as Jewish victims.
remember, it is still unknown if it was actually a suicide at all
Let's just chalk it up to Government murder either way!
His mom believed it was an accident, I have no clue just want to clarify it's not settled
After reading further past the imagery of snow white and crying about the parallels between that and his death and my own experiences as a gay man, thank you. It very well could have been the poorly stored electroplating chemicals stored in his home. He habitually ate an apple before bed and often discarded it not fully eaten. Coroner's notes, when examined by a modern eye, may be more consistent with inhalation than ingestion. He had been off estrogen for a year. He had made a list of things to complete when he went back to work after the holiday weekend.
I should make sure my chemicals are stored properly.
Yep! There's a lot of things that make it entirely possible it was an accident. I also want to clarify, I'm not discounting how abusive the government was to him- just saying we really don't know for sure what happened
A fair assessment. Thank you for widening my perspective! ^_^
His mom believed it was an accident, I have no clue just want to clarify it's not settled
Pretty sure they were pro sterilization of basically anyone not Aryan.
Abortions for some, a white ethnostate for others!
Only as a final solution.
They were pro abortion to 148th trimester adults! Well......if they were jewish (or a handfull of other things)
Not exactly, Nazies take on many forms. American Nazies want more slaves. Minorities need to have more babies... as long as they stay poor and uneducated.
Don't say Nazism when you mean: racism, authoritarianism, totalitarianism, discrimination, etc. They are often overlapping, and components of each other, but not the same thing
What do I call the guys marching with swastikas and calling for race war then? Will Nazis get offended if I call non-nazis "nazis"?
Racists, neo-nazis, white nationalists, it depends what they are. Nazi ideology was not just racism, it was inherently tied to a form of economic corporatism.
Do... Do our American Nazis, not want capital corporatism? Because this description of Nazi Germany's economy sounds a lot like trump and the general Republican party.
And this sure sounds like how the right acts about our military industrial complex...
And if you want a source, it's like literally the first bit in the article on the economy of Nazi Germany on Wikipedia. With all the sources you like.
And it just keeps going. This next bit sounds like riling up the populace to throw them under the bus and vote against their own self interest by demogoging about The Other. Reminds me of some fucks on the right here in the US. And by some, I mean... Well, I can't name any that aren't like this?
If you don't see the parallels, you are either blind or deceitful.
Walks like a goose, swims like a goose, steps like a goose, oop, it's an "Economically Anxious Republican"
Spades are spades, ducks are ducks, Nazis are Nazis.
Okay I'll keep calling them Nazis because they are Nazis. They wave nazi flags, they goosestep like Nazis, they believe in fascism like nazis. Not sure why you're defending the honor of Nazis (or maybe you're defending non-nazi white supremacists), but you pedantry is misplaced.
Of course there are still people who believe in Nazi ideology, but if they believe this: "American Nazies want more slaves. Minorities need to have more babies… as long as they stay poor and uneducated." then they very likely aren't that
Saying a term is inaccurate isn't defending them, you know that, and to suggest it is disingenuous.
Eg. I don't like pedophiles or serial killers, but calling a one the other is simply inaccurate.
This is more like calling a pedophile an ephebophile (a word pedophiles made up to try and get people to stop calling them pedophiles). Birds of a feather flock together.
You are pointlessly splitting hairs simply to be the smartest guy in the room.
No it's not, it's saying that Nazi doesn't just mean "bad". There are a lot of ideologies I disagree with, that aren't Nazis
And you pointing that out is pointless because NatakuNox wasn't saying that. They were pointing out that Nazism has evolved and changed over the last century or so and there are now multiple flavors of Nazi in the world. Some branches of Nazism look different than others. Some branches don't get along with the others. They still call themselves Nazis.
But there's some that are, right?
If you are not Aryan you can be sterilized WO any problem.
Given the context, I'm assuming this is sarcasm.....at least I HOPE it's sarcasm!!!
My point is, for nazis you can perfectly be sterilized, except if you are Aryan then you can't, so the premise isn't 100% truth..
May 6th, 1933, Date of the first Nazi book burnings. The location, Berlin Institute of Sex Research.
Is a tree connected to its leaves?
I would argue that the connection is a lot older than Nazis. The era around 1250 responded to a nasty wave of the Black death by Christian leaders collaborating to simultaneously fight the population decline by criminalizing abortion friendly midwifery and ostracize and subjugate gender and sexual minorities because they feared the collapse of society due to a population bust. As such what was taught by the church up to that point began to get new connotations. Jewish populations were persecuted and killed as scapegoats for the cause of the plague. Folk medicine women and non-conforming men were killed and condemned for witchcraft. While women stepped up to fill the roles of men during the plague once the population was rebounding their power of place in society was to be broken as the Church leaned on it's misogynistic practices and preached of the dangers to society and the family...
Nazisim is just a more modern echo of well established means to break the power of non compliant of groups who can be scapegoated or subjugated into subservience to Christians who feel threatened, a group that centers nominally celebate and wealthy men whose only contact with women is in a subordinate role.
See? They Owned the Libs!!!