There's no doubt removing a Hitler from the US elections would benefit everyone.
But given how dangerous his cult is, can you say without a doubt they would stay calm and just accept their leader got killed? And, above all, that the one coming to take his place would be a less fascist person?
OK, but if it did trigger a civil war, it'd be better to do that now than after they hold the government.
But given how dangerous his cult is, can you say without a doubt they would stay calm and just accept their leader got killed?
His cult will (and already does) do damage if gets in, so it doesn't matter if they might if he doesn't.
And, above all, that the one coming to take his place would be a less fascist person?
The current one already is a fascist person, at that point it doesn't matter if they're more or less, any fascist needs to go.
There are levels of fascism. A fascist like Trump is dangerous, but given his lack of intelligence, he's less dangerous than a fascist that's smart. You don't want a smart Trump.
Edit: typo
If Trump is stupid, what does that say about the person losing to an idiot?
You can be popular without being intelligent.
There’s a popular misconception trump is an idiot - he’s under educated and has a learning disability that discourages him learning further. He’s very clever with people and can charm them for 5 minutes while stealing their wallets. Remember he runs his own brand, and surrounds himself with people like himself… clever with people but with no strong logic or science background.
Our real problem is that he is good at fooling people like himself; people who are functional in society but could not flip their own breaker when the lights go off. There are a lot of those people, and they have no concept of long term consequences for their short term actions.
I'm going to agree with this although I actually think he's smarter than that. I believe he's a narcissist which a lot of people think is an idiotic position and in a wholesome functional idealistic society with equality it would be. However, that has never been America. America prides itself on inequality. From differences in education, opportunity, healthcare and quality of life, that is just free market capitalism doing what it does best.
We live in a society where most people equate and idealize money more than ideas, and if you have good ideas .. how little can they buy you out for. Will preventing climate change and living in harmony hurt corporate profits. People may have moments of clarity or hope and inspiration if they believe things can and will change, but a majority of people believe it is too late. That America has chosen this path and there is no going back.
For the forgetful, I write to remind us that Biden beat Trump last election - and Trump did not even have the small consolation of having been the smarter man.
About the person losing to him? Nothing.
But about the voters? It means that at least half of the people voting (and also a good portion of those who can vote and don't) are either Nazis or dumber than a rock (or both).
Trump has an amount of media savvy to him which matters a lot in popularity contests. He's also incredibly intellectually lazy and unwilling to put in the work to get things done. The signs of this are all over his first presidency and a matter of public record.
Trump embodies fascism on an instinctive bedrock level. By the time he saw the democracy, he was already a man, and it was nothing to him but stupid.
It’s unlikely that the person that replaces him will be as spiritually aligned with fascism. On the other hand, just like with Hitler, Trump’s pure stupidity and laziness is the one bright spot in what would otherwise be an unbroken landscape of horror that we’re currently driving into.
I think replacing him, atop the machinery that’s been created at this point, with someone who really knew what to do with it and could apply themselves to getting it done, would be probably the worst catastrophe possible out a set of possible futures that doesn’t have any shortage of catastrophes.
You remove Hitler and you get Chancellor Göring. As you suggest, it's just not that simple.
There level of martyrdom would be insane
They're already delusional and obsessed about their new prophet, what difference would it make.
Most likely they would take significant action. There'd be a lot of terrorism.
Though, probably not much more than if he loses.
An organic cause would play out different than an assassin's bullet. Both candidates have the best Healthcare available, so I dunno that organic is likely tho.
Him dying of an illness or simply old age would remove a good portion of the followers ire (not 100% because I'm sure there would be an interesting portion thinking the cause is fake and someone killed him; and of course some nutjob would try to capitalize it).
The problem of a potentially worse successor remains.
The solution is by no means simple and, to do it well, you need a long term plan that includes not only defeating him but also a shock plan for anyone trying to copy him until they return to being a moderate right party.
The solution must include too opening the elections to a more complex system with more than 2 parties and actual alternatives that make people able of voting for something that's not just "the lesser evil".
I think we'd be better off dealing with the illegal actions of some unhinged Trump mourners than dealing with a legal second Trump administration for 4 (or more?) years.
I disagree with this completely. I believe if he had been killed his supporters would massively ramp up the division that exists now, which would be bad. Revenge, and Retribution are terms used by trump and his followers. I think under that reality it would have triggered some awful things.
They're doing that anyway, the only difference is that their martyr is still alive to lead them.
I'm inclined to agree.
When a sudden power vacuum appears, two things are likely to happen. One, there's a mad scramble to grab that power and two, they'll turn on each other in the attempt. But that's all that seems certain.
Leadership would change hands and divisions would deepen, but they've been on a path of retribution and violence for a long time now. Trump's exit wouldn't end that.
He'll likely die of a heart attack or stroke and MAGA folks will still blame the left for it.
Would love for you to expand "already doing that" in relation to what I was suggesting. I do not see political opponents being physically attacked, I do not see/hear of any armed mobs actively physically trying to 'take their country back'.
I think that because of 1) trump is still alive and 2) this cook kid doesn't seem to fit the narrative of their enemy has kept things 'civil'.
Would love for you to expand "already doing that" in relation to what I was suggesting. I do not see political opponents being physically attacked, I do not see/hear of any armed mobs actively physically trying to 'take their country back'.
You already forgot about Paul Pelosi? The plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan? January 6th? Gabby Giffords? The Proud Boys? Charlottesville? Austin Combs? Kyle Rittenhouse?
Do you need me to keep going? I can name the armed mobs trying to 'take their country back' until the cows come home and barely scratch the surface.
I'm talking about as a response to him being murdered vs. not. Didn't think i needed to explain the context of my comment.
I disagree with this completely. I believe if he had been killed his supporters would massively ramp up the division that exists now
Editing for the literal context from my original comment.
That is exactly the point I'm referring to.
There is nowhere to "ramp up the division" any further, it's already at the point where the news simply can't keep up with all the political violence in this country.
You already don't ever hear about the FBI and Secret Service following up on death threats to politicians anymore, that stopped being a story decades ago. Bomb threats against institutions like schools are so common that word of them rarely escalates beyond the local area. Mass shootings occur regularly, but only the most egregious ones make the news.
America has been collapsing for decades now.
Bring it on, get it over with. The Civil War would have been much worse if Jefferson Davis was president instead of Lincoln.
And on the other hand, DeSantis vs Biden? Uh ohhh
Why do people act like Trump supporters are even tangentially connected to reality? They're not.
If they want to do some awful thing, and the reason doesn't exist, they'll make up a reason. They'll shoot up a pizza restaurant over a basement that doesn't exist. They'll storm the capital to deny the reality of an election. They do not give a fuck about reality.
They are already doing every single awful thing they want to do. Refusing to resist them because they might continue to be the exact same people they already are is so fucking stupid and infuriating.
He's not wrong. If you thought the last debate was bad for Biden imagine if there was a DeSantis or Haley up there to really hammer the age difference and speak in complete sentences. That person also gets to carry out Trump's vision and honor his memory. Once they won the election, they also get the opportunity to pass legislation that was Trump's dieing wish.
I'm just glad he decided not to go in person to the RNC.
Because he dodged a catastrophe.
Jon is completely right.
The (unhinged, dumb as a rock, self absorbed) devil you know is better then the (smarter, psychopath) devil you don't.
Hard to say what would have been better.
There's no doubt removing a Hitler from the US elections would benefit everyone.
But given how dangerous his cult is, can you say without a doubt they would stay calm and just accept their leader got killed? And, above all, that the one coming to take his place would be a less fascist person?
OK, but if it did trigger a civil war, it'd be better to do that now than after they hold the government.
His cult will (and already does) do damage if gets in, so it doesn't matter if they might if he doesn't.
The current one already is a fascist person, at that point it doesn't matter if they're more or less, any fascist needs to go.
There are levels of fascism. A fascist like Trump is dangerous, but given his lack of intelligence, he's less dangerous than a fascist that's smart. You don't want a smart Trump.
Edit: typo
If Trump is stupid, what does that say about the person losing to an idiot?
You can be popular without being intelligent.
There’s a popular misconception trump is an idiot - he’s under educated and has a learning disability that discourages him learning further. He’s very clever with people and can charm them for 5 minutes while stealing their wallets. Remember he runs his own brand, and surrounds himself with people like himself… clever with people but with no strong logic or science background.
Our real problem is that he is good at fooling people like himself; people who are functional in society but could not flip their own breaker when the lights go off. There are a lot of those people, and they have no concept of long term consequences for their short term actions.
I'm going to agree with this although I actually think he's smarter than that. I believe he's a narcissist which a lot of people think is an idiotic position and in a wholesome functional idealistic society with equality it would be. However, that has never been America. America prides itself on inequality. From differences in education, opportunity, healthcare and quality of life, that is just free market capitalism doing what it does best.
We live in a society where most people equate and idealize money more than ideas, and if you have good ideas .. how little can they buy you out for. Will preventing climate change and living in harmony hurt corporate profits. People may have moments of clarity or hope and inspiration if they believe things can and will change, but a majority of people believe it is too late. That America has chosen this path and there is no going back.
For the forgetful, I write to remind us that Biden beat Trump last election - and Trump did not even have the small consolation of having been the smarter man.
About the person losing to him? Nothing. But about the voters? It means that at least half of the people voting (and also a good portion of those who can vote and don't) are either Nazis or dumber than a rock (or both).
Trump has an amount of media savvy to him which matters a lot in popularity contests. He's also incredibly intellectually lazy and unwilling to put in the work to get things done. The signs of this are all over his first presidency and a matter of public record.
Trump embodies fascism on an instinctive bedrock level. By the time he saw the democracy, he was already a man, and it was nothing to him but stupid.
It’s unlikely that the person that replaces him will be as spiritually aligned with fascism. On the other hand, just like with Hitler, Trump’s pure stupidity and laziness is the one bright spot in what would otherwise be an unbroken landscape of horror that we’re currently driving into.
I think replacing him, atop the machinery that’s been created at this point, with someone who really knew what to do with it and could apply themselves to getting it done, would be probably the worst catastrophe possible out a set of possible futures that doesn’t have any shortage of catastrophes.
You remove Hitler and you get Chancellor Göring. As you suggest, it's just not that simple.
There level of martyrdom would be insane
They're already delusional and obsessed about their new prophet, what difference would it make.
Most likely they would take significant action. There'd be a lot of terrorism.
Though, probably not much more than if he loses.
An organic cause would play out different than an assassin's bullet. Both candidates have the best Healthcare available, so I dunno that organic is likely tho.
Him dying of an illness or simply old age would remove a good portion of the followers ire (not 100% because I'm sure there would be an interesting portion thinking the cause is fake and someone killed him; and of course some nutjob would try to capitalize it). The problem of a potentially worse successor remains.
The solution is by no means simple and, to do it well, you need a long term plan that includes not only defeating him but also a shock plan for anyone trying to copy him until they return to being a moderate right party.
The solution must include too opening the elections to a more complex system with more than 2 parties and actual alternatives that make people able of voting for something that's not just "the lesser evil".
I think we'd be better off dealing with the illegal actions of some unhinged Trump mourners than dealing with a legal second Trump administration for 4 (or more?) years.
I disagree with this completely. I believe if he had been killed his supporters would massively ramp up the division that exists now, which would be bad. Revenge, and Retribution are terms used by trump and his followers. I think under that reality it would have triggered some awful things.
They're doing that anyway, the only difference is that their martyr is still alive to lead them.
I'm inclined to agree.
When a sudden power vacuum appears, two things are likely to happen. One, there's a mad scramble to grab that power and two, they'll turn on each other in the attempt. But that's all that seems certain.
Leadership would change hands and divisions would deepen, but they've been on a path of retribution and violence for a long time now. Trump's exit wouldn't end that.
He'll likely die of a heart attack or stroke and MAGA folks will still blame the left for it.
Would love for you to expand "already doing that" in relation to what I was suggesting. I do not see political opponents being physically attacked, I do not see/hear of any armed mobs actively physically trying to 'take their country back'.
I think that because of 1) trump is still alive and 2) this cook kid doesn't seem to fit the narrative of their enemy has kept things 'civil'.
You already forgot about Paul Pelosi? The plot to kidnap the governor of Michigan? January 6th? Gabby Giffords? The Proud Boys? Charlottesville? Austin Combs? Kyle Rittenhouse?
Do you need me to keep going? I can name the armed mobs trying to 'take their country back' until the cows come home and barely scratch the surface.
I'm talking about as a response to him being murdered vs. not. Didn't think i needed to explain the context of my comment.
Editing for the literal context from my original comment.
That is exactly the point I'm referring to.
There is nowhere to "ramp up the division" any further, it's already at the point where the news simply can't keep up with all the political violence in this country.
You already don't ever hear about the FBI and Secret Service following up on death threats to politicians anymore, that stopped being a story decades ago. Bomb threats against institutions like schools are so common that word of them rarely escalates beyond the local area. Mass shootings occur regularly, but only the most egregious ones make the news.
America has been collapsing for decades now.
Bring it on, get it over with. The Civil War would have been much worse if Jefferson Davis was president instead of Lincoln.
And on the other hand, DeSantis vs Biden? Uh ohhh
Why do people act like Trump supporters are even tangentially connected to reality? They're not.
If they want to do some awful thing, and the reason doesn't exist, they'll make up a reason. They'll shoot up a pizza restaurant over a basement that doesn't exist. They'll storm the capital to deny the reality of an election. They do not give a fuck about reality.
They are already doing every single awful thing they want to do. Refusing to resist them because they might continue to be the exact same people they already are is so fucking stupid and infuriating.
Direct video: https://youtu.be/u8yL3I_6Oco
He's not wrong. If you thought the last debate was bad for Biden imagine if there was a DeSantis or Haley up there to really hammer the age difference and speak in complete sentences. That person also gets to carry out Trump's vision and honor his memory. Once they won the election, they also get the opportunity to pass legislation that was Trump's dieing wish.
I'm just glad he decided not to go in person to the RNC.
Because he dodged a catastrophe.
Jon is completely right.
The (unhinged, dumb as a rock, self absorbed) devil you know is better then the (smarter, psychopath) devil you don't.