Progressive-ish at the very least. I think Dems know the jig is up on all the neoliberal bullcrap particularly housing/immigration/not codifying abortion. Thing that have been the RealPolitik bipartisan status quo since forever.
All the gentlemen's agreements need to go and be replaced with hard and fast and enforceable deterrants to the would be fuck-arounders that the GOP is and has reasserted itself as.
Going by voting records, she's actually the closest to Bernie.
She's not progressive. But she's not trump and that's all that matters.
I think Bernie is just being pragmatic. But, that might be giving him too much credit.
I agree she's better than the only viable alternative.
We really need to replace FPtP and the Electoral College. Approval voting is pretty simple, and would improve both the primaries (if kept) and the final.
But wait fox says she is way left of Bernie
Being "pragmatic" only seems to go in one direction, and it is rightward.
Pragmatic isn't a point on the left-right spectrum.
Strange, is it not, that liberals never consider that sometimes they are the unjust man asking to meet in the middle before they step to the right.
People can't ever look past whatever threat we're facing. If you're always the person compromising, you'll never get to stand for anything. Even a big tent should have limits like Dick Cheney but if you say that someone call it purity test.
For a presidential candidate Harris has a surprising amount of values that resonate. Presidential candidates in the US are never good people but that doesn't mean we should pick the most degenerate weirdo we can find like trump.
Good for Bernie Sanders.
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A lot of people here seem to live in a Fantasy land where 95% of the US voters are well versed in Marxist ideology and the Republicans and Dems are only in power because all the Progressives are sitting waiting for the perfect candidate to emerge.
I wish I could find out where they get these ideas.
Progressive policies are popular. There's a phenomenon where centrists pretend to be progressive in order to be elected and then do a heel turn.
'Et tu Bernie?' References this. And here I am having to explain very recent history to some lib in defense of some leftist/progressive I've never met because libs can't take any fucking criticism during any fucking time. Maybe stop for a moment and engage some critical thinking. We weren't happy to see biden drop out JUST because he's old. Everyone was hoping for policy change, but that dreams gone, and Trump's up in polls as a result...
Are all her policies the same as Biden? I know there's a few that are shared and some are upset about not having a complete changeover, but I also doubt that's realistic to expect. Also, is the Presidency the only race, or the only seat of power? Who actually makes new laws? Where is the largest grouping of progressives, and growing?
Lastly...anyone who was looking for a change from Biden and saw Harris as a failure...and then went back to supporting Trump??? They are not progressive at all. That makes a move towards the Green or Communist Parties look sane.
Are you suggesting that poll numbers changed because some voters see Trump as more progressive than Harris?
Pretty sure he’s suggesting sinema and that tall guy who wears hoodies who gave Netanyahu terrorist a blow job on live television
I opposed Biden because of the genocide. Then I was excited about Kamala because I thought she would be better, but after a few weeks, it's clear she does not represent a change from Biden. So now I'm apathetic again.
Thank you. I'm so tired.
Progressive policies are popular
No, they really aren't.
The ACA barely passed when Obama had a super majority in both houses.
"The Squad" has less than six members.
Ronald Reagan is still considered a 'good' or 'great' President by 75% of the population.
About 2% of the voters consider Gaza a major issue.
Progressive policies are popular. But progressives have done a shit job of turning that enthusiasm into political capital. Waiting every four years for a nationally appealing, ideologically perfect candidate to magically fall in our lap seems to be a winning strategy—for republicans. Too many would be progressives give up if they can't have the whole cake handed to them instead of rolling up some sleeves and learning how to work from scratch.
Progressive policies are popular. But progressives have done a shit job of turning that enthusiasm into political capital.
That's because there is another type of capital...fucking money...involved.
Progressive policies may be popular, but the candidates that espouse them are immediately rolled by the corporate / industrial machine that runs the entirety of the media apparatus.
That's how a Democratic vice presidential candidate can be viewed by people in the country as disqualified from the race for drinking a milkshake with a straw, while the Republican presidential candidate can attempt to overthrow the government, be found to be a rapist in court, be convicted of felonies, poop his way through a case of depends at every rally, free associate about locking up his political opponents, discuss shooting protestors, be the oldest candidate ever picked by a major political party for president and still never be viewed as disqualified for the position.
Trump (an incredibly dull, almost comically idiotic person) realized this himself years ago, which is why he said he could shoot someone and not lose any votes.
Way too many people in this country believe that it just so happens that every individual progressive candidate just doesn't have the "gift" to turn their political positions (that are unpopular with business / industry / media / moneyed interests) into popularity at the polls when it's obvious that every progressive candidate is immediately met by a wave of media discontent the moment they seem close to getting any real power.
EDIT: FDR was considered to be a centrist until he got in there. There is another way things could work which is that someone could run as a progressive sleeper candidate and pivot to the middle in order to get support for the campaign and then govern more from the left after they win.
Say you have no idea about money in politics without saying the words citizens united
Progressives have been dropping the ball since before 2010? Why yes I agree.
Progressive policies are popular. But progressives have done a shit job of turning that enthusiasm into political capital.
This is exactly what I've been trying to convey.
Ah, so you were. Ngl wasn't following usernames and somebody's 'y tu Bernie' had me rage posting
Enraging people is all they seem to be able to do.
Have a great day.
The only policy you provided as an example of progressive policy was the ACA, which was the brainchild of famed progressive thinker Mitt Romney.
Nothing in your response is related to progressive policies. Try harder.
Let's turn it around.
Why don't you list all the Progressive polices that have actually been enacted.
You must have hundreds to choose from.
You realize there is a difference between 'popular' and 'implemented,' right?
“Not only do ordinary citizens not have uniquely substantial power over policy decisions, they have little or no independent influence on policy at all."
You realize there is a difference between ‘popular’ and ‘implemented,’ right?
Yes I do. The ACA got implemented because Obama got votes.
The agenda you want doesn't get implemented because instead of getting out the vote, the Left manages not to get people to the polls over and over and over.
Trump is getting votes from the working class while the Left isn't.
Politics isn't about debating who has the best ideas, it's about winning votes.
It's about the votes.
Hmm... How shall we win these votes from the lower class? Should we listen to their complaints and plights? Should we come up with ideas that resonate with the populace and excites them so they actually want to come out to vote for us rather than it being a feeling of obligation?
No. Let's not do any of that, let's just take bribes from the rich and do whatever they say. Then we can blame the left for being uninspired by our outrageous greed!
If you were getting any votes at all, we wouldn't be having this talk, would we?
Look up the Moral Majority. Back in the 1970s they jumped in and grabbed power in the GOP from the ground up.
See paragraph 2.
Look up paragraph 1.
If you were getting any votes at all, we wouldn’t be having this talk, would we?
Say you only watch cable news without knowing jack shit about polling without saying you only watch cable news without knowing jack shit about polling
The ACA barely passed when Obama had a super majority in both houses.
“The Squad” has less than six members.
Those aren't poll results, they are simple facts.
If your tactics were actually getting things done we wouldn't be having this talk.
Oh my god stop. Can you focus for one fucking second that the point of the upcoming election is to not let the fascists win?
Why do people on here insist we stop listening to and electing 80 year olds into office, but that view seems to vanish when it comes to Bernie? Seems so hypocritical.
I want all these old fucks out, including him.
Bernie has been pretty consistently progressive throughout his whole career, unlike almost any other politician. He stayed true to his convictions, and his opinions were so progressive for his time that he was ostracized for them. So his opinions are still held in high regard amongst the younger generations who are more progressive than their parents.
Also, I haven't heard anybody say that we shouldn't listen to older people, just that they shouldn't be running for President. Almost everybody would agree that he is too old to be running for the Presidency now, even most of his supporters, and probably Bernie, himself.
Because the old guys did some messed up shit in the past. Also they barely care for the future and are disconnected from the young.
Bernie has consistently stood on the side of civil rights and good over the course of his life. If I perceive him correctly he also still interacts favorably with young political movements ans opinions.
Progressive-ish at the very least. I think Dems know the jig is up on all the neoliberal bullcrap particularly housing/immigration/not codifying abortion. Thing that have been the RealPolitik bipartisan status quo since forever.
All the gentlemen's agreements need to go and be replaced with hard and fast and enforceable deterrants to the would be fuck-arounders that the GOP is and has reasserted itself as.
Going by voting records, she's actually the closest to Bernie.
Wow is that incredibly depressing
Coming from across the pond, I hope you are right that the jig is up. Looking at politics here, we’re still miles off that sentiment.
"fuck-arounders" is great, I'm stealing that.
Thats what I'm here 4
I consider her sane and rational. Easy choice.
She's not progressive. But she's not trump and that's all that matters.
I think Bernie is just being pragmatic. But, that might be giving him too much credit.
I agree she's better than the only viable alternative.
We really need to replace FPtP and the Electoral College. Approval voting is pretty simple, and would improve both the primaries (if kept) and the final.
But wait fox says she is way left of Bernie
Being "pragmatic" only seems to go in one direction, and it is rightward.
Pragmatic isn't a point on the left-right spectrum.
Strange, is it not, that liberals never consider that sometimes they are the unjust man asking to meet in the middle before they step to the right.
People can't ever look past whatever threat we're facing. If you're always the person compromising, you'll never get to stand for anything. Even a big tent should have limits like Dick Cheney but if you say that someone call it purity test.
For a presidential candidate Harris has a surprising amount of values that resonate. Presidential candidates in the US are never good people but that doesn't mean we should pick the most degenerate weirdo we can find like trump.
Good for Bernie Sanders.
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::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/bernie-sanders-considers-harris-progressive-policy-changes-pragmatic-rcna170102 ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
Et tu, Bernie?
A lot of people here seem to live in a Fantasy land where 95% of the US voters are well versed in Marxist ideology and the Republicans and Dems are only in power because all the Progressives are sitting waiting for the perfect candidate to emerge.
I wish I could find out where they get these ideas.
Progressive policies are popular. There's a phenomenon where centrists pretend to be progressive in order to be elected and then do a heel turn.
'Et tu Bernie?' References this. And here I am having to explain very recent history to some lib in defense of some leftist/progressive I've never met because libs can't take any fucking criticism during any fucking time. Maybe stop for a moment and engage some critical thinking. We weren't happy to see biden drop out JUST because he's old. Everyone was hoping for policy change, but that dreams gone, and Trump's up in polls as a result...
Are all her policies the same as Biden? I know there's a few that are shared and some are upset about not having a complete changeover, but I also doubt that's realistic to expect. Also, is the Presidency the only race, or the only seat of power? Who actually makes new laws? Where is the largest grouping of progressives, and growing?
Lastly...anyone who was looking for a change from Biden and saw Harris as a failure...and then went back to supporting Trump??? They are not progressive at all. That makes a move towards the Green or Communist Parties look sane.
Are you suggesting that poll numbers changed because some voters see Trump as more progressive than Harris?
Pretty sure he’s suggesting sinema and that tall guy who wears hoodies who gave Netanyahu terrorist a blow job on live television
I opposed Biden because of the genocide. Then I was excited about Kamala because I thought she would be better, but after a few weeks, it's clear she does not represent a change from Biden. So now I'm apathetic again.
Thank you. I'm so tired.
No, they really aren't.
The ACA barely passed when Obama had a super majority in both houses.
"The Squad" has less than six members.
Ronald Reagan is still considered a 'good' or 'great' President by 75% of the population.
About 2% of the voters consider Gaza a major issue.
Progressive policies are popular. But progressives have done a shit job of turning that enthusiasm into political capital. Waiting every four years for a nationally appealing, ideologically perfect candidate to magically fall in our lap seems to be a winning strategy—for republicans. Too many would be progressives give up if they can't have the whole cake handed to them instead of rolling up some sleeves and learning how to work from scratch.
That's because there is another type of capital...fucking money...involved.
Progressive policies may be popular, but the candidates that espouse them are immediately rolled by the corporate / industrial machine that runs the entirety of the media apparatus.
That's how a Democratic vice presidential candidate can be viewed by people in the country as disqualified from the race for drinking a milkshake with a straw, while the Republican presidential candidate can attempt to overthrow the government, be found to be a rapist in court, be convicted of felonies, poop his way through a case of depends at every rally, free associate about locking up his political opponents, discuss shooting protestors, be the oldest candidate ever picked by a major political party for president and still never be viewed as disqualified for the position.
Trump (an incredibly dull, almost comically idiotic person) realized this himself years ago, which is why he said he could shoot someone and not lose any votes.
Way too many people in this country believe that it just so happens that every individual progressive candidate just doesn't have the "gift" to turn their political positions (that are unpopular with business / industry / media / moneyed interests) into popularity at the polls when it's obvious that every progressive candidate is immediately met by a wave of media discontent the moment they seem close to getting any real power.
EDIT: FDR was considered to be a centrist until he got in there. There is another way things could work which is that someone could run as a progressive sleeper candidate and pivot to the middle in order to get support for the campaign and then govern more from the left after they win.
Say you have no idea about money in politics without saying the words citizens united
Progressives have been dropping the ball since before 2010? Why yes I agree.
This is exactly what I've been trying to convey.
Ah, so you were. Ngl wasn't following usernames and somebody's 'y tu Bernie' had me rage posting
Enraging people is all they seem to be able to do.
Have a great day.
The only policy you provided as an example of progressive policy was the ACA, which was the brainchild of famed progressive thinker Mitt Romney.
Nothing in your response is related to progressive policies. Try harder.
Let's turn it around.
Why don't you list all the Progressive polices that have actually been enacted.
You must have hundreds to choose from.
You realize there is a difference between 'popular' and 'implemented,' right?
Popular opinion has virtually no impact on policy, unless you're rich. This article describes the relationship.
“Not only do ordinary citizens not have uniquely substantial power over policy decisions, they have little or no independent influence on policy at all."
Yes I do. The ACA got implemented because Obama got votes.
The agenda you want doesn't get implemented because instead of getting out the vote, the Left manages not to get people to the polls over and over and over.
Trump is getting votes from the working class while the Left isn't.
Politics isn't about debating who has the best ideas, it's about winning votes.
It's about the votes.
Hmm... How shall we win these votes from the lower class? Should we listen to their complaints and plights? Should we come up with ideas that resonate with the populace and excites them so they actually want to come out to vote for us rather than it being a feeling of obligation?
No. Let's not do any of that, let's just take bribes from the rich and do whatever they say. Then we can blame the left for being uninspired by our outrageous greed!
If you were getting any votes at all, we wouldn't be having this talk, would we?
Look up the Moral Majority. Back in the 1970s they jumped in and grabbed power in the GOP from the ground up.
See paragraph 2.
Look up paragraph 1.
If you were getting any votes at all, we wouldn’t be having this talk, would we?
Say you only watch cable news without knowing jack shit about polling without saying you only watch cable news without knowing jack shit about polling
Those aren't poll results, they are simple facts.
If your tactics were actually getting things done we wouldn't be having this talk.
Oh my god stop. Can you focus for one fucking second that the point of the upcoming election is to not let the fascists win?
Why do people on here insist we stop listening to and electing 80 year olds into office, but that view seems to vanish when it comes to Bernie? Seems so hypocritical.
I want all these old fucks out, including him.
Bernie has been pretty consistently progressive throughout his whole career, unlike almost any other politician. He stayed true to his convictions, and his opinions were so progressive for his time that he was ostracized for them. So his opinions are still held in high regard amongst the younger generations who are more progressive than their parents.
Also, I haven't heard anybody say that we shouldn't listen to older people, just that they shouldn't be running for President. Almost everybody would agree that he is too old to be running for the Presidency now, even most of his supporters, and probably Bernie, himself.
Because the old guys did some messed up shit in the past. Also they barely care for the future and are disconnected from the young.
Bernie has consistently stood on the side of civil rights and good over the course of his life. If I perceive him correctly he also still interacts favorably with young political movements ans opinions.
No you don't. Keep Bernie around.
Bernie is literally saying Harris will say anything to win. Just like every other politician, how insightful.
You just drew a circle over everything a politician can do and then declared they're the same for doing whatever was in your circle.