We need to be able to differentiate between NSFW and porn.
thanksbrother@kbin.social to /kbin meta@kbin.social – 203 points – A boob, a butt, or even some violence like one might see on the news anyway, I’m not freaked out about all that and I don’t feel the need to hide it from those around me usually… that’s all fine fine, but I don’t want porn on my feed like at all.
Editing for clarity here:
Those are all things that might get flagged NSFW that I don’t mind seeing in general. I’m not uptight about it, it’s just a little different to be inundated with hardcore pornography like… while on the train.
I joined a primarily social insurance, kbin.social. I am very open to what is in my feed, sometimes to the extremer ends of that. I just believe that porn is a separate thing entirely and should be separated in some way. I’m not opposed to porn, but there’s a reason it had its own room in the video store. And if you’re wanting to look at porn, there’s a good chance you’re ONLY looking for porn at that moment.
Likewise, but I want porn and none the violence. Make love, not war! 🥵
I don’t disagree - but just during this whole Ukraine / Russia thing I’ve found myself subscribing to some things where I’m likely to see footage from the field. To me this is just informational and in some ways important to see, despite the fact that it is difficult to take. Horrors of war and all that. That’s a normal part of my daily news consumption while someone in a dog costume getting railed in an elevator at a convention is uh… well it is what it is, and I don’t want it.
Oh, that's just terrible! Share the location of that post, will you? I wouldn't want to stumble upon it by accident!
Nice try compadre
💯
I even find movie violence quite disturbing sometimes.
But not video game violence. That I'm perpetrating. I'm not sure if that says anything about me.
I had this conversation on mastodon a month ago:
NSFW is too broad for a tag. We should move on from it and redefined content warning tag specific to the content.
https://tooting.ch/@aroom/110243044941547673
https://tooting.ch/@aroom/110243567677517996
(Sorry I can’t find the convo my instance muted mastodon.social so posts are not being displayed. It’s a mess)
Seriously… there are so many things considered occasionally NSFW. Curse words, nudity, violence, suicide, even on Reddit anything tobacco related. I am personally very tolerant of all content, but I have lines with both gore and porn that I just don’t want the content mixed in with my casual browsing. I wish everyone would just take it to lemmynsfw so I could filter it appropriately, but due to relaxed instance rules even a generally tame instance like kbin.social constantly has new specific groups for me to ban. Just today it has beenfurry cartoon porn, feet, celebs…
Reddit never got this right either, but it seems like such an easy problem to solve. There’s R-rated and there’s porn. Not sure if it’s a result of people being too prude or too loosey goosey, but it seems very obvious to me.
To make it obvious to everyone it could be simply coded in the app. You could choose a category when posting then choose a category as an user.
This would be great if the other federated communities tagged posts or followed guidelines, but they don't have to, which makes the attempt of censoring federated servers pointless. Just block the shit you don't like to see.
I think part of the point here is that communities that aren't following common, reasonable guidelines are ultimately going to be defederated by communities who care about those guidelines.
A more robust tagging system makes blocking what you don't want to see easier and less disruptive to your experience.
Any kind of tag you use to convey "sensitive content that may be offensive" will always become a meme. That's how human nature works and history proves it over and over.
Examples abound. Skulls and cross bones, the nuclear / atomic symbol, X ratings becoming XXX tags in porno titles, Parental Advisory Explicit Content .... this list keeps going on the closer you look. If a symbol, or a meme, is used to denote a warning, it will be co-opted by a subset of folks who will use it in ironic fashion. NSFW tags, "trigger warning" - all of these in the end are doomed from the very start to, at least in part, fail and have the exact opposite effect.
There's an interesting problem for nuclear researchers these days: how do you label a thing as dangerous in such a way that societies in ten thousand years will still recognize what it means? Because some of the shit they're toying with will be. They gotta think about it. Like even today the image of a skull means something very different depending on the culture that image is from.
I don't want to be contrarian here, but I don't think we do. The title should be more than enough to determine the kind of nsfw it is. I'm not saying we don't need the feature, but I've never clicked a link thinking it would be porn and got gore or similar.
Porn doesn't usually come from communities that aren't porn communities so it isn't really ever an issue. An I off base here?
Remember when /all showed nsfw/porn threads? That was fun/scary/interesting. I’m not saying one way or another which is “better”, but ultimately having individual options might be best.
For me the issue is, I want to be able to set a filter on /all where the porn isn't rocking up but the combat footage etc is.
I just want the NSFW thumbnails to be blurred out. I'm on Kbin, and I distinctly remember checking a box that said it would do that, but it doesn't do that. So I had to check the box to remove all NSFW from my feed, which I also don't want, but don't-want less than I don't-want my boss or my SO to look over my shoulder and see boobs in the "random posts" sidebar.
On jerboa even if it's blurred it is clear what the image is if it's an ass or a crotch or tits or something involving a pet 🤔... I don't want to see anything like that especially CP, blurred or not.
Maybe a better option would be some kind of uniform "avert your eyes" warning thumbnail. Probably would save a minuscule amount of server resources too.
That's why I say we need a NSFW and a CONTENT_WARNING. The nice thing about content warning is that it's generic enough to have multiple uses. It can cover gore and death, but it can also cover trigger warnings for sensitive spaces.
This is a good idea
Perhaps in addition to allowing some communities to set themselves as NSFW by default, Kbin could also let communities set up tags that get automatically added to their posts? That way the porn ones could add #porn, the combat footage ones could add #gore, etc. "NSFW" would be a special tag that indicates that the contents should be blurred or otherwise hidden from accidental view, and the user could then decide whether they wanted to view it anyway based on the tags that were on it. Meanwhile something that was a perfectly innocent academic debate on the subject of porn could have the #porn tag but not the NSFW flag, and it'd be shown normally.
Oh, that alone sounds much better. That way, there'd be no way to get around tagging it and we'd know who any rebel tagless magazines are
This is actually good and the tag system is already in place, just need to implement it as a way to filter out (not filter in) content easily.
Thinking on it more, the only hiccup I can see is stuff like possible medical communities. They would be rarer than your basic morbid curiosity subs, but they do have both important discussion and definitely -nsfw photos. Not everything posted there would be gore, but every image likely would be, so it evades the proposed tag filter somewhat by being both on a regular basis.
Everything posted there can't be automatically nsfw gore, but it can't not be. It would have to be a hard and fast rule to manually tag them and if the mod doesn't care, all bets are off on a lot of users becoming familiar with a lot of oozing meat.
For everything else outside of gore and porn I like browsing with image previews enabled and “all” instead of “subscribed,” and I want to see things that at least on Reddit were forced to be marked as nsfw. Maybe in the Fediverse NSFW is only limited to those things and I can turn it off, which I have, but I do not want to miss content from medium-adult posts just because of my preference to not jerk at all times of day.
Boosted you because I didn’t think you deserved downvotes for that and the reputation system is messed up. And you have a good username.
Once a week, on r/all, there is a thread with a cryptic title like "Look at what he did" marked NSFW that is posted in r/videos.
Now tell me, is that now a person pissing on the street? Is someone dancing naked on their car's roof? Or is it maybe a dude having an accident while skating and it shows his broken arm?
As a moderator of r/nudism on Reddit, I fully support this message. While we don't find an image of a naked person any more or less offensive or sexual than an image of a naked dog or cat (please don't read anything in to that, pervs) we do recognize that nudity is NSFW for most people's workplaces. That said, we worked very hard to keep the sub rated as all ages, SFW, and required any image that contained nudity (which was rare) to be marked NSFW.
As with most things, there is nuance and the devil is in the details.
Edit:
A modest suggestion, have multiple tags. Violence, Nudity, Sex, Drugs, or whatever else. Users can choose to filter based on their personal views.
Agreed. NSFW to me is synonymous with porn, and everything else may as well have a more literal label. 'gore' 'PDC potentially disturbing content' whatever.
I think just plain tags would be best
Violence
Nudity
Porn
Make it simple so there is no confusion. I don't mind seeing nudity. I am sometimes in the mood for porn. I have no appetite for violent imagery.
Additionally, is there a way to block a magazine (hopefully I'm using the correct term) aside from having to actually go in there and click on the block button? If a properly skeezy one shows up on my general feed I'd prefer to not have to actually open it to filter it out if that makes sense.
On mobile you have to scroll down passed a bunch of posted too. Could be nice to have it on the more menu or something.
A work around might be to search for it by name under magazines then you have the option without opening the post or mag.
On mobile, if you click the kbin logo when you’re at the top of the screen it will create an in-window “pop up” of sorts that brings that bottom magazine footer to the top so you can block (or subscribe) without scrolling. At least that’s how I do it.
Boobs, a butt, a missile decapitating someone… ok! What about a penis? Is that artistic and okay or is that unwanted porn?
The NSFW tag works well enough. We don’t need to start tagging what is unwanted porn, what is violence, what is wanted porn, what is art. The tag along with the title of the post should be enough.
Idk bro there was a drawing of a furry getting fucked in the ass while tied up and part of the caption stated it was being raped. How is that artistic?
It’s not. It should be tagged NSFW and reported or blocked. I have seen that crap too, but putting additional tags isn’t going to solve that. Someone might tag that shit as “art”. The NSFW tag and title though tell you everything you need to know before opening that up.
I feel like people miss the entire point of nsfw. It is supposed to be so you can have a way to filter everything so you could theoretically not see bad shit on a work computer.
Nsfw should be a catch all, and almost overly restrictive, that way you can comfortably go to reddit, kbin, Lemmy or whatever on a work computer without fear of bad shit popping up.
True. However, there is no reason adding a more nuanced tagging system would impact the ability to do that. You can still browse at work when you should be working, just check all the boxes first.
I, on the other hand, really like art. Sometimes that involves nudity, but it tends to be more incidental to the work and thus more tasteful than the internet's repository of porn gifs. I really like medical subs, which back on reddit expressed itself in following posted medical cases that were often fairly graphic.
I have no interest in seeing someone get spit roasted at really any point in my day, and there's so much more of it that it would be impossible to find much of anything else nsfw in hours of scrolling. I can't just block all the porn subs like I could on reddit, I've tried, there are more being made every day.
I don't think most people want to see what happens to your face when the shotgun doesn't kill you, either, when all they're trying to do is jerk off for a minute. At best, that's just gonna give someone a kink they can't talk about.
As it is now, m/all is a giant porn sub and I'm relegated ONLY to my subscriptions. If I turn the filter on to deal with the porn, I can no longer access my own subs. If I leave it off, it is everywhere and the sheer amount of it noticeably impacts my ability to even use m/all to find subs I may not have the terms to search or just never knew I wanted. Which destroys the point of having an All.
I think if we broke it down more, both sides would be served and no one would ever have to hear about it again
Pretty much exactly what I’ve been trying to say, just put more eloquently by you here. Incidental art nudity and medical stuff etc., exactly. I guess it ruffled the feathers of some folks with the way I worded it or people just really are that upset about what seems to be an absolutely benign thing to me.
dont subscribe to pornographic magazines
Because there are so many instances and so many communities across those instances that I can’t possibly subscribe to everything I want to see, it’s nice to view “all” while figuring out the groups I want to see. I’d miss a lot if I limited it to “subscribed.”
right but you want to see everything but also only some nsfw things, so any nsfw posters need to do extra work to add extra flags to their posts. What if I dont want to see political content? or Im on a diet and I dont want to see tempting food posts? How atomized and numerous do you want the flagging system to be?
Nobody looks over your shoulder and sees Chuck Grassley and thinks you’re about to jack off
what do you think nsfw stands for?
Uh… I don’t know, read the rest of the thread where a lot of people have detailed exactly why it’s too vague and just simply separating “porn” from the rest of it would be helpful.
not safe for work. content you wouldnt want someone seeing over your shoulder.
What are you, my parents in eighth grade? /s
I don't, and I have the settings set so I don't get nsfw-tagged materials. But I still saw a pornographic image I didn't want to see because not every instance/magazine we're federated with has nsfw tagging rules. I actually haven't gone back to mastodon since that visual assault, lol, because I don't want to see more and they clearly don't have it under control. I blocked the nsfw lemmy instance, but even before that I didn't see anything explicit here. At least have the images hidden or blurred until you click the post.
There needs to be a levels system instead of a letters system.
NSF(W)1: you wouldn't look at it in front of your boss in a corporate setting. Anything slightly risque in nature.
NSF(W)2: Written graphic text
NSF(W)3: Maybe a nip slip, or an African tribeswoman in native dress
NSF(W)4: Some intermediary step here
NSF(W)5: Nudes, porn, etc.
NSF(L)1: Fight footage with mild-medium violence
NSF(L)2: Death
NSF(L)3: Graphic death. Gore. Beheadings. Etc.
They don't even need to be in order, but there should be a classification system. Once the classification system is implemented, we can set classifications to view/not view in our settings.
I'd be cool with both nsfw and xxx tags. Nsfw is so ubiquitous, I think it should stay, and xxx is pretty well defined and short.
This is a great solution.
I filed issue on the Codeberg suggesting they should use CWing system , like what mastodon uses . That way, more specificity of what's in a post before clicking . Blanket NSFW flags don't do this
I agree
Scrolling “all” for increased exposure it’s like… news article, kitty cat, meme, anti-Reddit post, GAPING HOLES, puppy…
reminds me of 2015 reddit /r/all
It was hilarious, you'd see a cute puppy, a post giving some good advice on how to care for your house plants, a world news article and right below them there would be a full-frontal pic from gonewild
It's great, feels like the wild west
I actually just turn off nsfw altogether, I just don't care to have the gaping holes staring at me, especially as I have a 4 year old who wants to know what I'm doing ALL the time
That’s what I’ve done now for similar reasons. 15-year-old and girlfriend both likely to get a peak at the page while I’m otherwise innocuously scrolling. Just afraid I’ll miss out on otherwise tame content that has been flagged NSFW out of abundance of caution.
I read this as 15-year-old girlfriend... Glad that's not what it says, lol.
Haha
I feel like “NSFW” was born out of an attempt to appear to not censor. We can probably be more specific here since we have options to avoid censorship of instances. Tags of what kind of content a post contains could help, but they’d need to be standardized somehow.
Another example is that /r/vexillology used NSFW to literally mean "Not Safe For Work" e.g. any flag that might get you in trouble should it show up on your PC at work. So for example, a tag for "fascist imagery" instead could be used.
In this case I like the idea of magazines being able to define their own warnings.
I'm totally down for Brandon Sanderson subs having "NSFV" tags (will not explain this as it's a spoiler for his books).
Updated just for the NSFV joke. Nice to see a Cosmete fan in the wild.
Dude I opened kbin in a fairly public setting and one of the random posts was a guy with a MASSIVE cock, like the girth of a soda can. I wish there was a way for NFSW oriented magazines/communities/instances to automatically flag posts made to them as NSFW
We just need a more elaborate labeling system. Instead of the binary SFW/NSFW, we could have several labels:
light nudity (boob, butt, etc)
porn
gore
death
etc.
Anyone who posts this sort of content without the proper labels gets banned.
Your best bet right now is blocking the biggest NSFW instance, lemmynsfw.com
That's what I did, just went to https://kbin.social/d/lemmynsfw.com and hit the little 🚫 next to "subscribe." Hopefully there will be easier ways to block instances in the future
I'd settle for a setting to make all NSFW posts automatically minimized so you have to click on it to reveal it without going to the real page for it, if that makes sense
One person's PG13 movie is another person's porn.
This just really isn’t true for the vast majority of folks. There is a mostly agreed upon consensus for these things. Visit pornhub or whatever if you’re having trouble identifying the difference between what’s a little risqué and what’s porn.