It might be due to the use of the USB-A ports on the backside of the laptop which are known to have some abnormal power draw, which framework is currently addressing.
30% better than any Intel gen, wow.
Do they now have additional USB ports on the back side? Or do you refer to having USB modules plugged in?
They were talking about the usb modules. The back two on either side (the ones closest to the screen) have an issues where the USB 4 Type C to USB A adapter is not fully going to sleep when nothing is plugged in. So ArsTechnica's reviewer most likely had one of the USB A modules plugged into those two USB 4 ports which causes their apparent poor battery life.
Indeed. On both the picture at the top of the article and at the bottom, do we see them having the USB-A expansion card in the slot closest to the screen. If that's how it was configured for the battery test, it would show battery life in a non-optimal configuration.
Edit: this is only an issue on the AMD board.
So.. a fixable issue.
I believe Framework said they are looking into fixes for this issue, either with firmware patches or if neccesary a hardware revision of the USB A module. Current workaround is just to not put USB A into those two back slots.
I have a first gen framework and I really like it. Having the ports behave differently on this AMD does seem a little annoying but I guess you'd get used to it.
I think it's an alright compromise. I rarely move my expansion cards around. I use four USB-C cards and sometimes swap one out for a storage card that has Windows installed on it.
I also don't move them often, it's interesting they weren't able to get all 4 the same though. I haven't read anything that actually explains it. I guess the CPU can only handle that configuration.
The Ryzen 7840U and 7640U, by specification, support 2 USB 4 ports and 2 USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports.
So it seems that's just a limitation by the architecture.
Thanks. I've read a few articles about these AMD frameworks but have never seen the reason for the limitation mentioned.
Still no CoreBoot support, so it's a hard pass for me. I wish they worked on it, they promised it back in 2020.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
I think they're still hiring coreboot devs on their career page. Maybe they're not willing to pay enough?
They don't sell this in my country, it's so annoying! Everything I want in a laptop is right there.
Ive had two Lenovo laptops lately and they have ALL broken in different ways after a few years.
First one, mouse pad clicks stopped working.
Second one, some keys stopped working.
I want a laptop where I can replace things like this when they break.
If you got a Lenovo ThinkPad then you can easily replace parts. They're available online from Lenovo themselves along with documentation on how to perform the repairs.
If you got a Lenovo ideapad... they suck.
I had an ideapad 5. It was quite decent..
I only had it for a year though. Replaced with the MBA
That second line made me throw up in my mouth a little.
Someone found a use for a business degree, it would seem
I got one t14 and one carbon x9. I don't buy those ideapads.. :) OK will have a look!
Import it..
Its never impossible.
Lenovo is one of the best out there, you can get replacement parts directly from them
This is the best summary I could come up with:
My third review of this laptop is probably the one that I (and many Framework-curious PC buyers) have been the most interested to test, as the company has finally added an AMD Ryzen option to the repair-friendly portable.
I won't spend a lot of time talking about the design of the Framework Laptop 13 again, except to say that it remains a competent ultraportable, and there's nothing that feels dated or clunky about its design now that didn't already feel a little dated and clunky two years ago (the relatively thick display bezel is the main culprit here).
Another laptop in this category we generally like, Lenovo's ThinkPad X1 Carbon, has been using the same basic design for years, so it's not like Framework is in danger of falling behind in a chaotic and fast-paced industry.
All the Intel Framework Laptops have supported the same specifications for all four ports (USB 4 for the 11th-gen, Thunderbolt 4 for the newer ones), allowing you to install the expansion card modules wherever you want them without worrying about the particulars.
Framework also says the rear ports enter a "high-power mode" when USB-A modules are connected to them, which can reduce battery life.
But some modules are better fits for specific ports, and you'll have to be a bit more careful about where you put things if you want the best performance and battery life.
The original article contains 530 words, the summary contains 232 words. Saved 56%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I lost all interest the moment I saw that it has no dedicated GPU.
The upcoming 16 inch model will have a dedicated gpu.
Why would you want one in a laptop?
They produce too much heat
Plenty of laptops have dedicated GPUs, and framework is actually releasing one with a dedicated GPU.
Why would you want a laptop that can do some CPU tasks but falls on its ass when doing GPU tasks? Seems ridiculous to buy a laptop capable of only doing half as many things. Integrated graphics are garbage.
See my other comment on the matter
I'm not hunting for whatever comment you think I should be looking for, my guy.
It's the one you replied to.
They produce too much heat.
They only produce heat if you're using them. Otherwise they run pretty ambient.
It's wild that you wouldn't want a GPU, since it makes the machine like 50% more capable.
Well I’m not sure how you can expect a response if I already answered what you said before you posted
Your other comment is stupid, and this one is worse
I'd imagine for graphics intensive tasks and they'll have to be moving the device around?
Then you would use an external gpu
So every time you move say from home to school you'd have to bring an external device? What's the point of that?
Yeah mean like how you’re bringing the laptop?
I’d also recommend an external drive of some sort, and a keyboard/mouse
By your logic then why aren't you just suggesting to pack and bring a desktop PC everywhere?
So someone needs the extra gpu power from a dGPU in a handy form factor like laptop and you suggest an external gpu for... what benefit? I don't get it. Seems like you've just made the moving around part more cumbersome for no extra benefit.
If you think moving around a laptop + gpu dock is more cumbersome than moving a desktop around then good on you
Compared to laptops with a built in dGPU then the benefits are lifespan, power, affordability
If you think moving around a laptop + gpu dock is more cumbersome than moving a desktop around then good on you
We were talking about why someone would get a laptop with a dGPU...
Compared to laptops with a built in dGPU then the benefits are lifespan, power, affordability
I'm getting the opposite results for power and affordability when looking at articles. Though for power it's just same as dGPU vs eGPU which probably wouldn't be the case, you could get a proper desktop GPU but that would also use more energy, so not ideal. Also the solutions seem pretty costly.
But the point is that there's definitely a good reason to have a laptop with a dedicated GPU. You want graphics power but you also want it in a laptop form factor for moving it around. Say you'll need it for school so you'll be moving it around five days of the week. eGPU might work if someone really doesn't want a dGPU and needs the GPU power, but it doesn't seem like the handiest solution. You might not want to deal with carrying more stuff and having to set it up almost daily. Just getting a dGPU would be much simpler.
What do you need a dedicated GPU in school for?
CAD stuff, GIS with fuckhuge aerial imagining stuff so far for just me personally, I'm sure other fields have ton of other stuff.
It has more power due to heating constraints
And being able to replace/upgrade the desktop gpu in your egpu gives it a longer life
I assume you would use a computer bag regardless
And you shouldn’t need that power every time you take out your laptop
You might not need full on desktop power though and since carrying a laptop might already be a pain you don't want to carry anything other than what's strictly necessary. Not to mention setting up the thing on your desk, some might not want to do that.
I'll give you that there's benefits to an eGPU but it's pretty situation dependant and what you value that decides which one you should go for. In any case you probably understand now why someone might want a dGPU though, even if you yourself would go for an eGPU.
Just the eGPU dock will cost you like $300
At that point, might as well get the Framework 16 with the 7700S for $400 more, since it's a slightly downclocked 7600XT which is already selling for $270 so it's a $130 markup compared to buying an expensive eGPU dock first
both are upgradable
You’re replacing not upgrading
Also if a new laptop is only $400 more than the graphics card in it then it’s not one you want
Framework 16 has an upgradable GPU, you're only replacing the GPU to upgrade the laptop. The laptop without the GPU is $1400 or so depending on the configuration
the $400 price is the price of the GPU module, when AMD releases more powerful mobile GPUs you can upgrade to a newer, more powerful module
The battery life in arstechnica's review stands out as different and lower compared to 2 other reviews (pcgamer and techradar):
https://lemmy.zip/comment/3284894
It might be due to the use of the USB-A ports on the backside of the laptop which are known to have some abnormal power draw, which framework is currently addressing.
30% better than any Intel gen, wow.
Do they now have additional USB ports on the back side? Or do you refer to having USB modules plugged in?
They were talking about the usb modules. The back two on either side (the ones closest to the screen) have an issues where the USB 4 Type C to USB A adapter is not fully going to sleep when nothing is plugged in. So ArsTechnica's reviewer most likely had one of the USB A modules plugged into those two USB 4 ports which causes their apparent poor battery life.
Indeed. On both the picture at the top of the article and at the bottom, do we see them having the USB-A expansion card in the slot closest to the screen. If that's how it was configured for the battery test, it would show battery life in a non-optimal configuration.
Edit: this is only an issue on the AMD board.
So.. a fixable issue.
I believe Framework said they are looking into fixes for this issue, either with firmware patches or if neccesary a hardware revision of the USB A module. Current workaround is just to not put USB A into those two back slots.
I have a first gen framework and I really like it. Having the ports behave differently on this AMD does seem a little annoying but I guess you'd get used to it.
I think it's an alright compromise. I rarely move my expansion cards around. I use four USB-C cards and sometimes swap one out for a storage card that has Windows installed on it.
I also don't move them often, it's interesting they weren't able to get all 4 the same though. I haven't read anything that actually explains it. I guess the CPU can only handle that configuration.
The Ryzen 7840U and 7640U, by specification, support 2 USB 4 ports and 2 USB 3.2 Gen 2 ports. So it seems that's just a limitation by the architecture.
Thanks. I've read a few articles about these AMD frameworks but have never seen the reason for the limitation mentioned.
Still no CoreBoot support, so it's a hard pass for me. I wish they worked on it, they promised it back in 2020.
Don't let perfect be the enemy of good
I think they're still hiring coreboot devs on their career page. Maybe they're not willing to pay enough?
They don't sell this in my country, it's so annoying! Everything I want in a laptop is right there.
Ive had two Lenovo laptops lately and they have ALL broken in different ways after a few years.
First one, mouse pad clicks stopped working.
Second one, some keys stopped working.
I want a laptop where I can replace things like this when they break.
If you got a Lenovo ThinkPad then you can easily replace parts. They're available online from Lenovo themselves along with documentation on how to perform the repairs.
If you got a Lenovo ideapad... they suck.
I had an ideapad 5. It was quite decent..
I only had it for a year though. Replaced with the MBA
That second line made me throw up in my mouth a little.
Someone found a use for a business degree, it would seem
I got one t14 and one carbon x9. I don't buy those ideapads.. :) OK will have a look!
Import it..
Its never impossible.
Lenovo is one of the best out there, you can get replacement parts directly from them
This is the best summary I could come up with:
My third review of this laptop is probably the one that I (and many Framework-curious PC buyers) have been the most interested to test, as the company has finally added an AMD Ryzen option to the repair-friendly portable.
I won't spend a lot of time talking about the design of the Framework Laptop 13 again, except to say that it remains a competent ultraportable, and there's nothing that feels dated or clunky about its design now that didn't already feel a little dated and clunky two years ago (the relatively thick display bezel is the main culprit here).
Another laptop in this category we generally like, Lenovo's ThinkPad X1 Carbon, has been using the same basic design for years, so it's not like Framework is in danger of falling behind in a chaotic and fast-paced industry.
All the Intel Framework Laptops have supported the same specifications for all four ports (USB 4 for the 11th-gen, Thunderbolt 4 for the newer ones), allowing you to install the expansion card modules wherever you want them without worrying about the particulars.
Framework also says the rear ports enter a "high-power mode" when USB-A modules are connected to them, which can reduce battery life.
But some modules are better fits for specific ports, and you'll have to be a bit more careful about where you put things if you want the best performance and battery life.
The original article contains 530 words, the summary contains 232 words. Saved 56%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
My biggest complaint: In stock: never
Since I'm allergic to ever preordering anything, ever, for any reason whatsoever, this may as well be vaporware.
They only take a refundable $100 deposit until shipment. So, lower risk than with a video game or Kickstarter, IMO.
I thought vaporware was software
Term can be used for hardware or software, but that's fair to think.
I lost all interest the moment I saw that it has no dedicated GPU.
The upcoming 16 inch model will have a dedicated gpu.
Why would you want one in a laptop?
They produce too much heat
Plenty of laptops have dedicated GPUs, and framework is actually releasing one with a dedicated GPU.
Why would you want a laptop that can do some CPU tasks but falls on its ass when doing GPU tasks? Seems ridiculous to buy a laptop capable of only doing half as many things. Integrated graphics are garbage.
See my other comment on the matter
I'm not hunting for whatever comment you think I should be looking for, my guy.
It's the one you replied to.
They only produce heat if you're using them. Otherwise they run pretty ambient.
It's wild that you wouldn't want a GPU, since it makes the machine like 50% more capable.
Well I’m not sure how you can expect a response if I already answered what you said before you posted
Your other comment is stupid, and this one is worse
I'd imagine for graphics intensive tasks and they'll have to be moving the device around?
Then you would use an external gpu
So every time you move say from home to school you'd have to bring an external device? What's the point of that?
Yeah mean like how you’re bringing the laptop?
I’d also recommend an external drive of some sort, and a keyboard/mouse
By your logic then why aren't you just suggesting to pack and bring a desktop PC everywhere?
So someone needs the extra gpu power from a dGPU in a handy form factor like laptop and you suggest an external gpu for... what benefit? I don't get it. Seems like you've just made the moving around part more cumbersome for no extra benefit.
If you think moving around a laptop + gpu dock is more cumbersome than moving a desktop around then good on you
Compared to laptops with a built in dGPU then the benefits are lifespan, power, affordability
We were talking about why someone would get a laptop with a dGPU...
I'm getting the opposite results for power and affordability when looking at articles. Though for power it's just same as dGPU vs eGPU which probably wouldn't be the case, you could get a proper desktop GPU but that would also use more energy, so not ideal. Also the solutions seem pretty costly.
But the point is that there's definitely a good reason to have a laptop with a dedicated GPU. You want graphics power but you also want it in a laptop form factor for moving it around. Say you'll need it for school so you'll be moving it around five days of the week. eGPU might work if someone really doesn't want a dGPU and needs the GPU power, but it doesn't seem like the handiest solution. You might not want to deal with carrying more stuff and having to set it up almost daily. Just getting a dGPU would be much simpler.
What do you need a dedicated GPU in school for?
CAD stuff, GIS with fuckhuge aerial imagining stuff so far for just me personally, I'm sure other fields have ton of other stuff.
It has more power due to heating constraints
And being able to replace/upgrade the desktop gpu in your egpu gives it a longer life
I assume you would use a computer bag regardless
And you shouldn’t need that power every time you take out your laptop
You might not need full on desktop power though and since carrying a laptop might already be a pain you don't want to carry anything other than what's strictly necessary. Not to mention setting up the thing on your desk, some might not want to do that.
I'll give you that there's benefits to an eGPU but it's pretty situation dependant and what you value that decides which one you should go for. In any case you probably understand now why someone might want a dGPU though, even if you yourself would go for an eGPU.
Just the eGPU dock will cost you like $300
At that point, might as well get the Framework 16 with the 7700S for $400 more, since it's a slightly downclocked 7600XT which is already selling for $270 so it's a $130 markup compared to buying an expensive eGPU dock first
both are upgradable
You’re replacing not upgrading
Also if a new laptop is only $400 more than the graphics card in it then it’s not one you want
Framework 16 has an upgradable GPU, you're only replacing the GPU to upgrade the laptop. The laptop without the GPU is $1400 or so depending on the configuration
the $400 price is the price of the GPU module, when AMD releases more powerful mobile GPUs you can upgrade to a newer, more powerful module
How does the gpu heat not damage the rest of it?
Unless it's one of those that has an oculink connection, you wouldn't have enough bandwidth on the USB 4 port to be able to game on it at full speed
Personally, I would never game on a laptop? It's an expensive way to get cruddy performance.
I've paid $14 for 7 hours at a net cafe, would have saved money if I had a gaming laptop when I was away from home.
I wouldn't but my girlfriend does, despite me trying to explain to her why desktops are better. I don't buy laptops.