Ok if mods are cheating, that's fine. Who cares if people cheat on their own experience of a game they bought? Oh no, someone is "cheating" at Megaman 🙄. Someone is cheating at Resident Evil. So what, Capcom? Why does it matter? Who are they impacting besides themselves?
Online issues? Different story, so just make sure those people can't play online. Gotta tell ya, though, the overwhelming majority of mods don't do that, and when they do, the devs have already put something in there to deter it. Most mods on multiplayer games are model swaps and reskins (really, it's all just big titty mods)
Instead, Capcom, give us mod tools. Do what Bethesda does and give us a whole-ass creation kit, that way, your game can remain relevant for over a decade and make bank every couple years when you rerelease it. Skyrim isn't beloved for the vanilla experience
-Sincerely, a Monster Hunter modder
Ok if mods are cheating, that’s fine. Who cares if people cheat on their own experience of a game they bought? Oh no, someone is “cheating” at Megaman 🙄. Someone is cheating at Resident Evil. So what, Capcom? Why does it matter? Who are they impacting besides themselves?
Yeah, unless it's multiplayer, a gamer should be permitted to cheat however they want. Adult gamers need to take care of stuff and don't have time for such eccentricities. It's not only big publishers like Capcom, though. The indie developer of Project Warlock likened quick saving to cheating and his artistic intend was not to allow that. Die in a map and start from the beginning. WTF. Those publishers/developers need to realize that gamers are paying customers and need to treat them this way.
And most mods aren't actually cheating anyway. They are cosmetic changes, new equipment, gamepleay alterations, and sure, some are intended to make the games easier, but there are those that make them harder too
Yeah, like Calamity for Terraria.
My brother in christ, OG Terraria was never this fucking tough to beat. People created new layers of difficulty for bosses, like how is that cheating. It took me about 100 hours to beat that game while duplicating resources, because it was so hard. Even next-class weapons and armor didn't make late-game bosses easy. But oh boy how great was the feeling of defeating the SCal. That was many years ago, I don't even know if they added another fuckton of content.
Who cares if people cheat on their own experience of a game they bought?
Yep, that's me.
I have a family, a job that burns my brain out most days, and other hobbies. When I play games, I like to just turn off my brain and shoot bad guys with impunity. I don't have time to actually Gut Gud^TM^, so I often cheat a bit and never play multiplayer.
It works for me and anyone bothered by that, including Capcom, should fuck off and worry about their own lives.
Skyrim isn't beloved for the vanilla experience
I beg to disagree.
Not saying there aren't people who don't like the vanilla experience, but it's success would be nowhere near as huge if not for the modding community. Skyrim is the two biggest mod communities one Nexus, and the top 5 are all Bethesda games. In the top 8, 6 of them are Bethesda games. Skyrim has been on top since I've been using nexus, and I've been using it for a decade or more, and that's to say nothing of the other sites out there. Clearly modding is a tremendous part of Skyrim's appeal
I would agree if we are talking longevity, but it was a success well before modding took off for it
Part of its success IS the longevity it got because modding keeps games alive
Skyrim sold between 15-20% of its copies on PC on release.
Modding support built the franchise fanbase, but it's not why normies play Skyrim.
1 in 5 people being mod users is not negiligible
Modding plays a role.
But people also happily bought it on consoles with no/negligible mod support. How much do you think they sold on switch where it doesn't go on sale below $30? Because I'm betting they made plenty.
Bethesda games are the only ones I can think of that have mod support for consoles. It's way less than PC for sure, but I wouldn't call it negligible
Considering most console games require a whole lot of work-around, even when their PC versions are more easily modded, I'd say just the existence of console mod support on Bethesda's part is a recognition of the importance modding has on those games
Again, I'm not saying that Skyrim would have been a failure without mods, only that it's incredible success would not have been achieved without them
It's absolutely negligible. There isn't a mod available on their official mod platform that anyone involved in the PC mode scene from actual mod distribution sites is installing.
Mod support on consoles is borderline unprecedented. The fact that the devs made sure that consoles got that goes to show just how negligible it isn't. Skyrim is practically the face of game modding. Without any other context, if you bring up game modding, you're most likely going to be conjuring skyrim in people's heads. Modding is absolutely not negligible to Skyrim financially or even to its identity
It's nothing but an excuse to pretend their distribution platform is legitimate.
There's nothing remotely interesting available on the official Bethesda mod platform. It didn't sell them any extra copies. It's complete and utter trash.
There's no connection and no commonality between that nonsense and the modding ecosystem that kept people playing on PC.
I haven’t been interested in playing vanilla Skyrim since 2011. I still fuck around with mods every year or so. The game is somehow incredibly simplistic while also super clunky and every character has one of four voices.
Mods are the only reason Skyrim stood the test of time so far because my position is very popular.
Here is some free PR damage courtesy of me, for Capcom having a shit take
"When asked about the success of games like Skyrim due specifically to the wide variety and quality of mods Capcom responded: What's a Skyrim?"
Capcom doesn't even need to look at Skyrim, Monster Hunter World and Rise are modded to hell and back and it really does improve the experience.
Even resident evil and devil may cry have decent mods. They are mostly visual (costumes, vfx, stuff like that) but I still enjoy them a lot
You know what actually has quite a lot of porn made about it btw?
Mods that violate public order and morals.
Looking at you „Turning Mr X into Pikachu“ Resident Evil 2 mod.
This is the downfall of civilization as we know it. Turning Pikachu into Ganondorf in Smash was the early warning sign
100% they're doing this to set up for selling cheats as microtransactions.
Some of their points are technically correct, e.g. that mods can increase the support workload if they don't work properly.
Then again, even rudimentary mod support can mitigate that simply by displaying the fact that the game is modded in an appropriate place (like the start menu, log files, or the launcher if present). Then support can ask for that first and tell people to disable or uninstall their mods and call again. Boom, support workload reduced.
This is less possible with competitive multiplayer games but even there you might get away with something like a Stellaris-style checksum system. Simply declaring mods to be bad is just lazy.
that mods can increase the support workload if they don't work properly.
What grognard goes to the game's official support when a mod doesn't work?
Plenty of people do. Especially since broken mods can cause problems like unexpected crashes that might not be easy to trace back to the mod. If the game automatically sends in crash reports, a popular mod becoming unstable might generate significant work for a while.
A mod-aware game wil usuallyl point out right in the crash log that it's modded and might even enumerate the mods. Makes it real easy to find out that "Jake's Improved Graphics for 2.3 Continued" is the shared culprit.
Why the fuck would you have automatic crash reports? Ive had games "crash" from mr alt-f4ing
For debugging. No amount of internal testing can match a few thousand players in the wild. Usually these crash handlers ask you if they can upload the logs but I've also seen a few games where you can toggle it in the options.
I get having the ability to send a crash report, im more confused about the automatically sending one part.
This is the same Capcom that published Neverwinter Nights? The game that still lives on because of mods and fan made expansions?
You know what causes PR damage? This bullshit.
Ok if mods are cheating, that's fine. Who cares if people cheat on their own experience of a game they bought? Oh no, someone is "cheating" at Megaman 🙄. Someone is cheating at Resident Evil. So what, Capcom? Why does it matter? Who are they impacting besides themselves?
Online issues? Different story, so just make sure those people can't play online. Gotta tell ya, though, the overwhelming majority of mods don't do that, and when they do, the devs have already put something in there to deter it. Most mods on multiplayer games are model swaps and reskins (really, it's all just big titty mods)
Instead, Capcom, give us mod tools. Do what Bethesda does and give us a whole-ass creation kit, that way, your game can remain relevant for over a decade and make bank every couple years when you rerelease it. Skyrim isn't beloved for the vanilla experience
-Sincerely, a Monster Hunter modder
Yeah, unless it's multiplayer, a gamer should be permitted to cheat however they want. Adult gamers need to take care of stuff and don't have time for such eccentricities. It's not only big publishers like Capcom, though. The indie developer of Project Warlock likened quick saving to cheating and his artistic intend was not to allow that. Die in a map and start from the beginning. WTF. Those publishers/developers need to realize that gamers are paying customers and need to treat them this way.
And most mods aren't actually cheating anyway. They are cosmetic changes, new equipment, gamepleay alterations, and sure, some are intended to make the games easier, but there are those that make them harder too
Yeah, like Calamity for Terraria.
My brother in christ, OG Terraria was never this fucking tough to beat. People created new layers of difficulty for bosses, like how is that cheating. It took me about 100 hours to beat that game while duplicating resources, because it was so hard. Even next-class weapons and armor didn't make late-game bosses easy. But oh boy how great was the feeling of defeating the SCal. That was many years ago, I don't even know if they added another fuckton of content.
Yep, that's me.
I have a family, a job that burns my brain out most days, and other hobbies. When I play games, I like to just turn off my brain and shoot bad guys with impunity. I don't have time to actually Gut Gud^TM^, so I often cheat a bit and never play multiplayer.
It works for me and anyone bothered by that, including Capcom, should fuck off and worry about their own lives.
I beg to disagree.
Not saying there aren't people who don't like the vanilla experience, but it's success would be nowhere near as huge if not for the modding community. Skyrim is the two biggest mod communities one Nexus, and the top 5 are all Bethesda games. In the top 8, 6 of them are Bethesda games. Skyrim has been on top since I've been using nexus, and I've been using it for a decade or more, and that's to say nothing of the other sites out there. Clearly modding is a tremendous part of Skyrim's appeal
I would agree if we are talking longevity, but it was a success well before modding took off for it
Part of its success IS the longevity it got because modding keeps games alive
Skyrim sold between 15-20% of its copies on PC on release.
Modding support built the franchise fanbase, but it's not why normies play Skyrim.
1 in 5 people being mod users is not negiligible
Modding plays a role.
But people also happily bought it on consoles with no/negligible mod support. How much do you think they sold on switch where it doesn't go on sale below $30? Because I'm betting they made plenty.
Bethesda games are the only ones I can think of that have mod support for consoles. It's way less than PC for sure, but I wouldn't call it negligible
Considering most console games require a whole lot of work-around, even when their PC versions are more easily modded, I'd say just the existence of console mod support on Bethesda's part is a recognition of the importance modding has on those games
Again, I'm not saying that Skyrim would have been a failure without mods, only that it's incredible success would not have been achieved without them
It's absolutely negligible. There isn't a mod available on their official mod platform that anyone involved in the PC mode scene from actual mod distribution sites is installing.
Mod support on consoles is borderline unprecedented. The fact that the devs made sure that consoles got that goes to show just how negligible it isn't. Skyrim is practically the face of game modding. Without any other context, if you bring up game modding, you're most likely going to be conjuring skyrim in people's heads. Modding is absolutely not negligible to Skyrim financially or even to its identity
It's nothing but an excuse to pretend their distribution platform is legitimate.
There's nothing remotely interesting available on the official Bethesda mod platform. It didn't sell them any extra copies. It's complete and utter trash.
There's no connection and no commonality between that nonsense and the modding ecosystem that kept people playing on PC.
I haven’t been interested in playing vanilla Skyrim since 2011. I still fuck around with mods every year or so. The game is somehow incredibly simplistic while also super clunky and every character has one of four voices.
Mods are the only reason Skyrim stood the test of time so far because my position is very popular.
Counterpoint: literally nobody is blaming Bethesda for the stuff you can find on Loverslab.
16 times the genitals
16 times the niche restraints
16 times the preggo mods (Why are there so many? How many do you need?)
16 times the sex animations (FNIS says theres a few thousand animations for the lewd mods alone)
16 times the weird masochistic mods
16 times the really creative unironically good mods
16 times the non-adult mods (why would you upload normal mods to LL? I don't get it.)
It someone's kink to upload non-adult mods to Loverslab.
Before or after they stir up petty drama on Nexus?
Both, got to make it a good party.
Welcome to 2004. This is where they source both their opinions and their artwork.
I don't know, Morrowind and Neverwinter Nights had existed for two years back then, so not even a shared opinion in the industry.
2004 was the year of Hot Coffee. There was a lot of "mods are bad mkay" going around back then.
Here is some free PR damage courtesy of me, for Capcom having a shit take
"When asked about the success of games like Skyrim due specifically to the wide variety and quality of mods Capcom responded: What's a Skyrim?"
Capcom doesn't even need to look at Skyrim, Monster Hunter World and Rise are modded to hell and back and it really does improve the experience.
Even resident evil and devil may cry have decent mods. They are mostly visual (costumes, vfx, stuff like that) but I still enjoy them a lot
You know what actually has quite a lot of porn made about it btw?
Looking at you „Turning Mr X into Pikachu“ Resident Evil 2 mod.
This is the downfall of civilization as we know it. Turning Pikachu into Ganondorf in Smash was the early warning sign
100% they're doing this to set up for selling cheats as microtransactions.
Some of their points are technically correct, e.g. that mods can increase the support workload if they don't work properly.
Then again, even rudimentary mod support can mitigate that simply by displaying the fact that the game is modded in an appropriate place (like the start menu, log files, or the launcher if present). Then support can ask for that first and tell people to disable or uninstall their mods and call again. Boom, support workload reduced.
This is less possible with competitive multiplayer games but even there you might get away with something like a Stellaris-style checksum system. Simply declaring mods to be bad is just lazy.
What grognard goes to the game's official support when a mod doesn't work?
Plenty of people do. Especially since broken mods can cause problems like unexpected crashes that might not be easy to trace back to the mod. If the game automatically sends in crash reports, a popular mod becoming unstable might generate significant work for a while.
A mod-aware game wil usuallyl point out right in the crash log that it's modded and might even enumerate the mods. Makes it real easy to find out that "Jake's Improved Graphics for 2.3 Continued" is the shared culprit.
Why the fuck would you have automatic crash reports? Ive had games "crash" from mr alt-f4ing
For debugging. No amount of internal testing can match a few thousand players in the wild. Usually these crash handlers ask you if they can upload the logs but I've also seen a few games where you can toggle it in the options.
I get having the ability to send a crash report, im more confused about the automatically sending one part.
This is the same
Capcomthat published Neverwinter Nights? The game that still lives on because of mods and fan made expansions?Atari.
Just checked the box. I'll see myself out.