Is it immoral, unethical, or illegal to use movie prop money for collection plates, tip jars, beggars, and strip clubs?
If I'm paying for my goods and services with actual money, but using prop money for tips, is that bad? In my understanding, tips are given of one's own free will and would be considered a gift to the recipient, the same as if I gave flowers or cookies as a tip. I've also seen fake money passed off by religious people that looks fully real on one side, and has church propaganda on the other side.
This is a hypothetical question that came up when assembling a gag gift for my kid from my parent. I don't plan on doing it (though, there are some instances where it'd be VERY tempting...), but it does make me curious.
If you give a beggar fake money you're going to super hell
Yeah, you have to be a really spectacular piece of shit to do that (any of the examples really, but the beggar one in particular, even just considering it is super fucked up)..
It’s both unethical and illegal.
only if the "currency" is convincing enough. If it's literally monopoly money, not so much. most prop money usually is not all that convincing up close. (which is one of the reasons it's usually only folded over or in wallets. they'll put real bills on top if they need close ins on the cash.)
There is absolutely an intent to defraud aspect, and it's clear the intent here is to pass of the money as real even if it's monopoly money. This is particularly true in strip clubs where you're getting a "service" based on your donations.
is it? or is it to hide the fact that they're not tipping to escape the social stigma inherit in not tipping (or tithing).
if you were right, those religious tracts would be illegal and the company that produces them closed down for counterfeiting currency.
I edited my comment about strip clubs right when you posted this. There's a legal gray area in my opinion by using it for tipping. If you've already received the service, you really can't be committing fraud. Essentially, the producers can easily say the thing is not meant to commit fraud because it's obviously not real money. But if you personally passed it off as money anyway and received something for it, you'd get nailed.
I’m not positive about that. Possessing obviously fake money is not a crime, but passing it off as if it were real money in a transaction itself may constitute a crime. Back before sensors became more sophisticated, I had a friend who used photocopied bills (which were obviously fake) in subway token machines, and he got into some trouble for it.
So those Christians with the fake one sided bills with propaganda on the back that they leave as tips should be arrested.
Came here for this. That’s been happening for quite some time lol
this is a bit different. at the point that you're paying for goods or services with it, yes, that's definitely trying to pass counterfeit bills. But tips are not payment for the food or wait service. You don't pay a tip in lieu of a bill, you pay a tip along with the bill. While socially it's understood there will be a tip... there's no legal obligation for there to be one; or even what is to be given as a tip.
Oh, I know. It’s not necessarily a crime, although I wouldn’t recommend it without reading what actions specifically would trigger those laws. It’s the wording of the laws that I’d want to be comfortable with.
But morally speaking it’s not even a grey area. It’s absolutely worse than just not tipping at all. If I were a restaurateur I’d ban this person on the first offense, no questions asked.
Absolutely.
Just seems useless IMO
Tip, or don't, don't fake tip.
Yes, think of it the other way way around. You getting paid $2/h as a serving staff and in order to make minimum wage you need tips.
Then some joker comes in and tips you a fake bill. You would be pretty annoyed.
I think getting the middle finger as they walk out the door would be less annoying.
It seems like a good way to get some extra "seasoning" in your food next time you come.
You should ask restaurant staff how they feel about those tracts.
In any case, passing it off as a tip; you'll only be breaking the law if it's "real enough". You will be decried as an asshole, though. if you don't want to tip, just don't tip. if your congregation is watching who puts what into the collection plate, maybe you should find a new congregation- they sound like assholes. (especially because a lot of places have ways of donating/tithing online.)
Unethical. Not even a gray area, IMO.
Something of limited but actual value--like a coupon or a book of stamps--would be more of a gray area.
As someone who's had to rely on tips to keep a roof over my head and food in my stomach, I'd rather you tell me you're an asshole honestly by not tipping than deceive me otherwise by giving me trash I'll have to throw out.
I'm gonna find out either way.
Yes it is unethical and immoral to fool service personal and lead them to believe they receive a tip when they don't. Everybody hates to receive those fake church bills.
Along those lines though, putting fake money in their collection plates should be encouraged. Live by the sword and all.
It seems, at the very least, deceitful. If you don't want to give money, just don't and don't pretend otherwise.
What's the point? You seriously think anyone wants that as a 'gift'?
Some people collect Chick Tracts. I'm sure there's somebody out there who'd appreciate it. Of course it's probably about as likely OP will give it to someone who'll then go into a homicidal rage. But hey, you win some you lose some.
I’d enjoy it more if someone gave me one of the ridiculous mini comic books than one designed to look like currency.
i love this guy asking if it's unethical to tell someone else fuck you.. you haven't grasped basic ethics if this is a question for you.. do unto others as you would have them do unto you.. you don't even know how to put yourself in their shoes..
right? are we living in that morally ambiguous of a society that people don't understand basic tenets of decency?
Pretty sure it's all 3.
With the exception of using fake money in a collection plate at a church that uses those fake $50 bills as advertising. Then it's just poetic. Probably still illegal, though.
You're just returning their property ^^
It's immoral and therefore also unethical to give fake money as alms or as a tip (including tipping strippers). You're doing real damage to the recipient that way. With the beggars it'd be cruel false hope; with tipping it'd be violating the social contract and tantamount stealing their labor.
With the collection plate, it's the same as not tithing, which is allowed under both the social contract and most churches' doctrines; it's still obnoxious, though. But certainly understandable if the fake money in question originated from that church, as is so often the case (source: am brunch waitress).
Collection plate is fine, anything where the person needs the money is a super dick move.
Tips aren't an optional gift, not in the US. Tipping in the US is and explicitly began as a way to make sure you didn't have to pay black people if you didn't want to. Even in states without separate tip/no tip minimum wages, you're fucking with people's expected income and ability to plan their finances/life.
Giving fake money to homeless/working poor is straight up cruel - they are way more likely to suffer legal consequences for not realizing you were a dick.
It is immoral because its a lie (if we're going off of some definitions of morality), its unethical, because its a lie that is quite cruel and provides zero benefit, and it's illegal because it's fraud. So yes.
Dude they're not making much money, just give em a few bucks
Except for the churches. Fuck them.
Depends on where you are. If you live in one of those places that have legalized and are taxing tips, using fake money becomes a crime.
Also, if one of those strippers has a lawyer friend who'll take the case pro-bono and a generous private lap dance, they can probably take you to small claims court in the US if they can prove you didn't clarify that the money is fake.
Finally, if you dare to use fake money in a strip club, you're gonna get bounced and likely blacklisted.
Can I just say that this is truly a fascinating question? Great job, OP
Collection plates, absolutely not immoral. Serves the christians right for tipping with fake dollar bills.
As for everything else, uh, absolutely immoral.
Collection plate? As in a church? That’s fine, they’re predatory institutions anyway.
Tip jar? Massively douchey, just don’t tip at all if you’re going to do that.
Beggers? Yes (it’s unethical).
Strip clubs? Yes (it’s unethical).
Especially if you want beat up in the parking lot. If you don't want that that I wouldn't suggest trying to finesse strippers.
If you don't have money to spend at a strip club don't go to a strip club.
Wait, are you saying yes it's unethical to give fake money to beggars and strippers, or yes, it's ok to give them fake money?
Cuz...it's really not ok to give either of them fake money.
Yes it’s unethical.
In hindsight I probably shouldn’t have gone with yes as in do for one part and yes as in don’t for the rest for the rest of my comment.
TBH 'Yes (it's unethical)' still seems ambiguous to me. I interpreted the 'it' as referring to the previous nouns - beggers and strip clubs - and thought you meant it's ok because beggers and strip club workers are unethical.
Immoral? Depends on the moral system, but in not aware of any that would directly support fucking over individuals. Tips, handouts, that's shitty by any moral system I've ever run across.
Unethical? Well, ethics are situational. But, again, I can't imagine any code of ethics that would say fucking over an individual would be okay.
Illegal? Ask someone else. I'm fairly sure there's places where it would be illegal to pass fake money at all, but im damned if I'll go looking it up for you lol. I do know that passing counterfeit bills is illegal anywhere that bills are used, the only question would be if fake money that isn't an attempt to mimic a real bill would count.
Now, the leeway you have on moral and ethical realms is in church donations. They have to count and process the cash before it can be used, so the chances of it fucking a person over approach zero at the least. And if it's deposited in a bank, it'll get caught, and likely not result in harm to anyone involved. So you could make an argument that, it isn't immoral, just really cowardly behavior if you have a choice of donating or not. Social pressure is not enough to excuse just being a fucking adult and not putting it on the plate.
If you don't have a choice, as in it would bring harm beyond just not being welcomed back to that church, then it isn't a voluntary donation, which gives you the moral and ethical freedom to take whatever steps you need to survive until you can leave the situation that has you there.
As much as I hate tip culture, leaving a fake tip is just a giant, gaping asshole move. Fuck anyone that does that. Be a fucking adult and just don't tip, or find establishments that tipping isn't a factor.
Also, having bounced at strip clubs, you should be aware that trying that shit at any decent club is going to cost you way more than money if you get caught. I was a fairly gentle dude, and I would have literally bounced your ass off the pavement if I could lift you. Any bouncer I ever worked with would have too. Baaad idea to fuck around at places that tend to be no go zones with cops, especially if you don't know for a fact that it isn't laundering money. If it is a laundering front? You are going to get hurt, bad. Those kind of places are not friendly to fuckery like that. Say whatever you will about strippers, but they work a shitty job for shit money, dealing with creeps and assholes the entire time (not always the customers tbh). That tip may actually be all they get paid in some places.
I assume you're asking hypothetically, so please don't take any of that as a direct comment on you as a person. The response is to the hypothetical person, if you get what I'm saying. Nothing wrong with asking the question.