Windows 11 takes your money, gives you ads, sells your information and ignores your bug reports and feature requests
KDE is free, ad-free and open to contribution
I think we have a clear winner here
But can it run proprietary software used in the industry? From Excel to Photoshop, if you are in a collaborative professional environment, you can't run away from those, and don't tell me you can use the alternatives in Linux, because no, you can't. This is not linux fault, but it's still an issue you can't handwave.
I love linux, but you can't expect people to adopt it just because it's objectively better than windows.
Wine can run most of those, not all. You can still dual boot Windows if you need to (VMs are an option, but they aren’t always the best).
I mean, that's what I do. Will I be able to convince my 60 yo colleague that had been using the same workflow for decades? No, not a chance.
Are you talking about for work or home usage? And do they have any specific proprietary application/hardware requirements?
Work use. The are hardware requirements (XRD machines, potentiostats, CNC machining) and software requirements (3D design). My workshop asks for files in Autodesk Inventor, if I send it in any other format, they just won't fabricate my pieces, and I completely understand, who am I to change the workflow of a complete department just because I refuse to use Inventor (which is provided at work).
But you understand that's a massive Ballache to deal with on top of your normal workload?
I haven't tried running anything new, but the stuff I have run in wine has worked easily, without any tweaking
You just gotta make an effort. The one who are too lazy will never be free of Microsoft's clutches. Which probably just means pretty much everyone will stick to windows.
That's my point, I use linux as much as I can, but if 80% of your colleagues use Windows... You don't have much choice.
It depends on your industry. I'm in an agile development team, working in AWS in Java. I'm not a dev, so my work is in spreadsheets, word processor documents, web utilities like Azure Dev Ops
All that is platform independent, though we have to work on the organisation's computers, so we work in the office on windows PCs or from home on whatever, remoted into a windows machine or VM
The devs work in VMs which are variously windows or GNU/Linux depending on what the person's previous project was.
@desconectado@glibg10b Wine exists... And that's all I have to say. There is a good installer in lutris for creative cloud that works pretty good if you own it. And if you have a NVIDIA graphics card, it works even better, almost like on windows. It's not 1:1 but we're getting close. For excel you have wine again or a great free alternative is WPS or softmaker if you want to buy it.
I wish Wine worked well enough to use Excel. We are not talking about adding up numbers in a cell. Once you include macros, or a reference manager in Word, Wine is not good enough. The same can be said about propietary software, like autocad, or software used to control equipment. Also, good luck convincing a regular user to get familiar with wine.
WPS is great for simple files. Again, not good enough for complex files, especially if it is a corporate collaboration environment. I have lost count on the amount of ppt files that didn't display well when it used WPS.
Every other year I try all the alternatives you mention, hoping they got better, and I always come back to use a dual boot or a virtual machine, which is not a thing your regular user wants to do.
List of things to consider
There are alternatives
You can use wine
You can run a windows VM and install it there
Dual boot windows
Microsoft has built a proprietary moat around their operating system. The reason why it’s hard to switch from Windows is by corporate design. A mix of early adoption, network effects, and just plain cold hard cash makes them dominate the operating system market. Of course it’s infeasible for your 60yo coworker to switch; but KDE presents an alternate reality, an opportunity, for people fed up with big tech’s bullshit. Yes, figure out how to run and use alternatives you fucking nut. Way to go disparaging countless volunteer hours spent on open source projects so that people like me can switch to linux.
Comments like these make me irrationally angry. Why complain about open source software and give bad PR? It’s open source; contribute.
Read my other replies. 1 and 2 don't really work, the performance of using wine, or the alternatives, is just not there, if you do amateur work, maybe that's fine, but for professional collaborative work, good luck using freecad instead of autocad.
Personally, I use 3 and 4, but you have to understand that the regular user is not going to go through that much hassle to set up a virtual machine.
There are enough web based office instances running for Linux to be functional in that regard.
Photoshop on the other hand...
Photopea is a solid replacement.
GIMP will be great once it no longer needs to dodge patents
Audio players work great now MP3 is out of patent (before that MP3 was really only available if you were willing to ignore the patent)
I love linux, but you can’t expect people to adopt it just because it’s objectively better than windows.
Excel o,O
Meh I had a dual boot machine ages ago. Still here collecting dust. Basically I only switched to use the Linux for down time, movies, and study, most day to day tasks from engineering software to anything I considered important enough that you do not want the results hacked or broken I would use Windows.
I think of modern machines kind of like a hammer. These days almost nobody actually remembers the guy who made the first hammer, or who discovered fire, but there's a price tag for the bow, the paper and the hammer, not so much the making of the hammer, because the actual skill involved or required to learn about it has become challenged if not cheapened to the degree that there are now multiple paths to obtain or create a hammer, yet the benchmark quality of the hammer as well as the process for creation itself as a whole is now more of an authority than the actual original statue or monolith of "hammer man" himself.
This is why I think the many flavours of Ubuntu including the many esoteric Linux distros are still interesting but still lack the diversity of use and specialization. The fact that whole blockchains are built for XYZ while sitting around pumped then dumped to trading at cents with no use goes to show how cloud computing systems and lower level computing is still very disconnected and becoming further thrown aside to uphold ponzi schemes.
I'll give you an example, more money is wasted on onlyfans per year than for people trying to use system XYZ for solving problem A, or curing cancer. Consider that to be one of the "good" reasons many men and women are so misogynistic, even without looking down on sex workers.
I... what? What does Ubuntu have to do with misogyny?
This post reminded me to take my meds.
Get a life and stop trying to diagnose people via any observable behaviour. One day you'll understand child lol
Look. Everything is like a hammer, in terms of specialization. From Linux distros to gender roles, if you want to understand the world, just look at the hammer. We live in the Hammer Age. It is hammer time.
You can look up beer recipes and buy equipment and ingredients from it though. And use web based or spreadsheet calculators on it to do beer related calculations
That beer is also not free, but assuming you make beer for a long time the price per pint (half litre to split the difference between UK and US pints) tends toward about 20c (though highly hopped beers like hazy pale ale can get towards a dollar a pint) which is pretty cheap
But not free as in Murica.
You could get Ubuntu in a free like America style
But in America, Freedom isn't free.
Buck'o'five.
Canonical will sell you an Ubuntu
And anytime you mention that anywhere when somebody is being fucked again by windows, people find you annoying
But can it play Starfield with an Nvidia GPU? I originally had popos on my PC until Starfield came out, I had to switch to Windows to play.
Windows 11 takes your money, gives you ads, sells your information and ignores your bug reports and feature requests
KDE is free, ad-free and open to contribution
I think we have a clear winner here
But can it run proprietary software used in the industry? From Excel to Photoshop, if you are in a collaborative professional environment, you can't run away from those, and don't tell me you can use the alternatives in Linux, because no, you can't. This is not linux fault, but it's still an issue you can't handwave.
I love linux, but you can't expect people to adopt it just because it's objectively better than windows.
Wine can run most of those, not all. You can still dual boot Windows if you need to (VMs are an option, but they aren’t always the best).
I mean, that's what I do. Will I be able to convince my 60 yo colleague that had been using the same workflow for decades? No, not a chance.
Are you talking about for work or home usage? And do they have any specific proprietary application/hardware requirements?
Work use. The are hardware requirements (XRD machines, potentiostats, CNC machining) and software requirements (3D design). My workshop asks for files in Autodesk Inventor, if I send it in any other format, they just won't fabricate my pieces, and I completely understand, who am I to change the workflow of a complete department just because I refuse to use Inventor (which is provided at work).
But you understand that's a massive Ballache to deal with on top of your normal workload?
I haven't tried running anything new, but the stuff I have run in wine has worked easily, without any tweaking
You just gotta make an effort. The one who are too lazy will never be free of Microsoft's clutches. Which probably just means pretty much everyone will stick to windows.
That's my point, I use linux as much as I can, but if 80% of your colleagues use Windows... You don't have much choice.
It depends on your industry. I'm in an agile development team, working in AWS in Java. I'm not a dev, so my work is in spreadsheets, word processor documents, web utilities like Azure Dev Ops
All that is platform independent, though we have to work on the organisation's computers, so we work in the office on windows PCs or from home on whatever, remoted into a windows machine or VM
The devs work in VMs which are variously windows or GNU/Linux depending on what the person's previous project was.
@desconectado @glibg10b Wine exists... And that's all I have to say. There is a good installer in lutris for creative cloud that works pretty good if you own it. And if you have a NVIDIA graphics card, it works even better, almost like on windows. It's not 1:1 but we're getting close. For excel you have wine again or a great free alternative is WPS or softmaker if you want to buy it.
I wish Wine worked well enough to use Excel. We are not talking about adding up numbers in a cell. Once you include macros, or a reference manager in Word, Wine is not good enough. The same can be said about propietary software, like autocad, or software used to control equipment. Also, good luck convincing a regular user to get familiar with wine.
WPS is great for simple files. Again, not good enough for complex files, especially if it is a corporate collaboration environment. I have lost count on the amount of ppt files that didn't display well when it used WPS.
Every other year I try all the alternatives you mention, hoping they got better, and I always come back to use a dual boot or a virtual machine, which is not a thing your regular user wants to do.
List of things to consider
Comments like these make me irrationally angry. Why complain about open source software and give bad PR? It’s open source; contribute.
Read my other replies. 1 and 2 don't really work, the performance of using wine, or the alternatives, is just not there, if you do amateur work, maybe that's fine, but for professional collaborative work, good luck using freecad instead of autocad.
Personally, I use 3 and 4, but you have to understand that the regular user is not going to go through that much hassle to set up a virtual machine.
There are enough web based office instances running for Linux to be functional in that regard.
Photoshop on the other hand...
Photopea is a solid replacement.
GIMP will be great once it no longer needs to dodge patents
Audio players work great now MP3 is out of patent (before that MP3 was really only available if you were willing to ignore the patent)
Excel o,O
Meh I had a dual boot machine ages ago. Still here collecting dust. Basically I only switched to use the Linux for down time, movies, and study, most day to day tasks from engineering software to anything I considered important enough that you do not want the results hacked or broken I would use Windows.
I think of modern machines kind of like a hammer. These days almost nobody actually remembers the guy who made the first hammer, or who discovered fire, but there's a price tag for the bow, the paper and the hammer, not so much the making of the hammer, because the actual skill involved or required to learn about it has become challenged if not cheapened to the degree that there are now multiple paths to obtain or create a hammer, yet the benchmark quality of the hammer as well as the process for creation itself as a whole is now more of an authority than the actual original statue or monolith of "hammer man" himself.
This is why I think the many flavours of Ubuntu including the many esoteric Linux distros are still interesting but still lack the diversity of use and specialization. The fact that whole blockchains are built for XYZ while sitting around pumped then dumped to trading at cents with no use goes to show how cloud computing systems and lower level computing is still very disconnected and becoming further thrown aside to uphold ponzi schemes.
I'll give you an example, more money is wasted on onlyfans per year than for people trying to use system XYZ for solving problem A, or curing cancer. Consider that to be one of the "good" reasons many men and women are so misogynistic, even without looking down on sex workers.
I... what? What does Ubuntu have to do with misogyny?
This post reminded me to take my meds.
Get a life and stop trying to diagnose people via any observable behaviour. One day you'll understand child lol
Look. Everything is like a hammer, in terms of specialization. From Linux distros to gender roles, if you want to understand the world, just look at the hammer. We live in the Hammer Age. It is hammer time.
No but yes it's a useful analogy
Because plot twists and funny 🤣 nobody cares
Not to mention free as in freedom.
Also free as in beer.
Sadly there's no beer in it however
That's probably for the better.
You can look up beer recipes and buy equipment and ingredients from it though. And use web based or spreadsheet calculators on it to do beer related calculations
That beer is also not free, but assuming you make beer for a long time the price per pint (half litre to split the difference between UK and US pints) tends toward about 20c (though highly hopped beers like hazy pale ale can get towards a dollar a pint) which is pretty cheap
But not free as in Murica.
You could get Ubuntu in a free like America style
But in America, Freedom isn't free.
Buck'o'five.
Canonical will sell you an Ubuntu
And anytime you mention that anywhere when somebody is being fucked again by windows, people find you annoying
But can it play Starfield with an Nvidia GPU? I originally had popos on my PC until Starfield came out, I had to switch to Windows to play.
https://www.protondb.com/app/1716740
In a nutshell; it works with a lot of tweaks.
I mean Starfield was just terrible optimized for Nvidia at launch and still isn't ideal no matter what OS you use.
I play it on max settings with no problems on windows