Project 2025 is a conservative plan to immediately reshape the executive branch and replace most people with Trump loyalists immediately if he wins. It includes dismantling the FBI and Department of Homeland Security, because while Republicans like to claim to be tough on crime, they really don't like an independently functioning Justice Department that has shown their leader to be a criminal.
Remember this is essentially what the dictator of China did to seize power in the 2000s. Ascend the ranks and replace people who didn't agree with him.
A maga movement to seize power and turn the US into a theocratic dictatorship.
A fascist purging of government the Republicans have planned if Trump wins.
Yet another reason the working class must NEVER disarm.
Yeah. Although I doubt Americans will ever have the balls to actually properly revolt. By the time it would get bad enough for them to actually consider taking up arms seriously there will be robot dog armies and it will be moot.
I hope I’m wrong though.
The same fearmongering we heard in 2016 and 2020. You must save Democracy for the 12th year in a row by voting Democrat!!
After Trump dies some other Republican will take over that says crazier shit and then you must keep saving Demoracy by always voting Democrat. Never vote third party.
Well historically I’ve voted independent. I’m Canadian, but we have similar party issues.
Honestly seeing shit like this though, if it really is just fearmongering, it’s fucking working. This shit looks horrifying to me, I’d probably end up voting for Biden just to not let trump in. And I fucking hate Biden.
Canadian
Oh boy. How about the recent fumble of electoral reform by the Liberal party in Canada eh?
"Oopsie poopsie, now you HAVE TO vote for us or yous gets the conservatives again! LOL!"
Haha bro don’t even get me started on that shit. Boils my blood.
Trump already won in 2016 and the world didn't end back then. It's not going to be better than Biden but it sure as hell isn't going to be as bad as people here make it out to be.
It almost did. There was a mob of people just a couple doors away from murdering most of congress and making Trump a dictator.
The only reason Trump failed to end democracy is because he and the rest of the Republican party were just trying things without a real plan.
They have a plan now. If they get a chance to use it, they will be successful.
The Democrats sure waited a long time to prosececute Trump with that. Now the result of that trial will be after the election. Thank Democrats for saving Trump from jail.
What're you talking about? Democrats were sharply criticizing Garland for not bringing charges sooner, and still are. The Justice Department is independent, not an arm of the presidency.
And, it took Garland time to bring a case because you can't put together a case against the previous president of the US in a day. You only have one shot at a prosecution like that, and it needs to be flawless. It's like the phrase "when you swing at the King, you better not miss". It takes time to build the necessary case.
Blame the supreme court instead for being lazy and in Trump's pocket.
I hope you’re right. It went about how I thought it would go last time. That insurrection thing threw me though. And all the court cases coming after trump, as well as that project 2025 thing, this time seems different to me.
If the Dems were serious about prosecuting him he wouldn't get bailed out at the last second every time.
Also Dems purposely delayed the inserruction case now the verdict won't be until after the election. Real convenient now nothing can stop Trump except voting for Biden.
I have been really annoyed with the protest vote arguments because our system is horseshit and we still have to play within it, but there is no disagreeing with this. I’ll be voting a lot of these useless assholes back in this time as a last-ditch effort, but a purge of the bad actors is long in order. I lost faith in our institutions with Trump in charge, but when it’s come down to punishing that hunk of offal, nothing the dems have done has brought that faith back.
To be honest though, even if things in that situation were going better, I’d still be unconvinced. Outside said institutions, I truly believe that we are not participating in a society, we haven’t been for decades, and that’s got nothing to do with the government.
If that’s actually their game plan, then that’s the most idiotic game plan I’ve ever seen and it is definitely going to put trump back in the White House.
They can’t seriously be that stupid though. Can they?
I think it could be possible that this is the game plan they’re going with because it’s lazy and won’t piss off any donors, which doing things actual leftists want would definitely do.
If that’s actually their game plan, then that’s the most idiotic game plan I’ve ever seen
I mean, this is the party of the pied piper strategy.
They can’t seriously be that stupid though. Can they?
They're not stupid. They're pro-corporatists. They can't prosecute Trump without harming some other rich fucks in the process. When Trump said he'd have to have a fire sale to make the bond amount that wasn't a complaint it was a threat. Commercial real estate is already being propped up by fake numbers. If Trumps properties went up for sale it would blow that whole thing up. That's why he's being protected.
Pro-corporatism has no way of addressing fascism. And the Democrats are a pro-corporate party.
What an evil stupid system. People wonder why there’s voter apathy among leftists. This is why.
The DNC screwed over Bernie in 2016 to make sure a real progressives wouldn't win. They shoved in Hillary which was (and is) so bad she lost to Trump 1.
The Clintons actually suggested Trump to run thinking he'd be such a pathetic opponent that it would land them an easy victory.
Make no mistake, the Democrats prefer having Trump win over someone that could actually impose change.
Trump is their perfect enemy because they can keep running trash candidates and having them win solely on "not Trump".
Democrat voters screwed over Bernie, not the DNC. Bernie was on every single ballot. All people would have had to do is actually get off of their pampered asses and go vote for him. They didn't. She won. We got Trump as a result.
Yeah, if I recall correctly it was the 2020 primary where Bernie got most supremely ratfucked.
A huge propaganda campaign from the elites that control the DNC does wonders.
The American fascist party was born prematurely. They've spent the last eight years incubating within the Republican party and are ready to go mask-off now.
Bush was way worse than Trump.
Aside from saying some real dumb shit Trumps presidency was a lot milder than expected.
I would agree with you, except for COVID. That shit was nuts. Trump would have easily won re-election if he just let scientists make decisions.
There also wasn’t any hurricane katrina style fiascos under Trump, as well as Trump deciding not to invade Venezuela, which was a surprise. The Syria shit wasn’t great, but it was NOTHING like Iraq.
God the bar is set so fucking low it’s embarrassing.
He pulled out of Afghanistan which was amazing.
Trump's biggest fail was when he drone striked Iranian general Suleimani at the request of Israel. But luckily Iran didn't decide to escalate it so we didn't get a big war back then.
Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, not Trump.
Trump started it actually. Biden just did it a bit poorly but better than an extended fight.
Yeah. I feel like Biden did that because he knew he could divert all the military funding directly into the Ukraine situation and not piss off his Raytheon people.
Trump's influence on the Supreme Court has been utterly disastrous for the US and leftist causes
You can thank the Democratic judge for refusing to step down under Obama so he could have appointed a new one.
Nobody thought Trump was going to win until too late. RBG thought the next president would also be a Democrat.
But she was also naive and thought that she should do her job as long as possible, and that Republicans could be reasoned with. The court really needs a max age.
Regardless, this is a bit moot, since Trump had 3 total SCOTUS picks. RBG's seat was just one.
And once again, we can thank the DNC for sabotaging Bernie to make Hillary the candidate.
Even better if we just go back to Obama who had all power and was asked to codify abortion rights, and then didn't. Because it's a great tool to keep people voting Democrat.
The President does not have the power to codify abortion rights. That power lies with Congress. And I believe I've previously explained why Democrats were unable to do that. They had a 60 vote majority for all of a few months, and you had Democrats more conservative than Manchin in those days.
It's kind of funny in a sense. The two parties were much more similar in the 2000s. Clinton's third way in the 90s allowed Democrats to win, but at the cost of becoming more conservative. They've since diverged significantly. Abortion didn't used to be nearly as partisan.
I think people really underestimate how badly Reagan fucked up the country. His era led to conservative dominance in US society, that's only recently started to be torn away. Society has moved much more to the left since 2010. Another way to look at this -- Sanders wouldn't have gotten the support he did in the 2000s or earlier. His message has only recently resonated with American society.
But throughout it all, life went on. The people of Germany lived in and often simply accepted the new normal that came with the rise of fascism –- a state of normalcy that, if the war had ended differently, could have become normal, everyday life for much of the rest of Europe as well. source
What a charmed life you must lead. I wasn’t really affected by his policies either but have you noticed the way things have been turning for the people his goons have been targeting since the chuds became empowered?
It is imperative that we bury the GOP first. Then, we absolutely can and should go knives out on Team Blue™️. I don’t disagree that Biden needs to go, and that most of the Democrats are obstacles at best to truly repairing our long-dead society. Hell, don’t just vote, actually fucking run for office, start somewhere where you aren’t so completely outgunned by the moneyed interests but you also actually make a difference. But for now, we need to take down the more immediate threat.
Throw rocks at me for saying it, but the Dems’ fecklessness is our fault too, to an extent. The problem is complacency when the pendulum appears to have swung in our direction, like “yeah we got the job done!* Let’s have pizza and congratulate ourselves and go back home!” Fortunately, it may finally no longer be the case. But for christ’s sake, can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? The upcoming, inevitable fight will be less harrowing if we can keep from actively making the battlefield more hazardous, which absolutely will happen with a Trump win.
*christ, I remember when Obama was elected and there was a false prospect of healthcare reform, Newsweek published a rather insulting cover saying, “we are all socialists now”, simultaneously feeding the right’s paranoia and patronizing the left in such an insulting way
You're not going to bury the GOP by voting Democrat. You will just worsen the situation.
Biden is continuing to build the wall, jailed twice as many immigrants as Trump, is committing Genocide, and so much more. Biden is just a GOP candidate with D in front of his name. He is one of the biggest establishment democrats who has built his career on empowering the elites.
Fine. Trump ‘24 then. Whatever, he’ll fix it.
Probably not. But maybe the moderate and liberal voters will finally wake the fuck up and realize they need to compromise with leftists or progressives if they want to win elections.
Ehh, I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate and put better people in office in the first place, even (and especially) when there is a dem majority. Like I said, we have had the tendency to get complacent when that’s the case. It also doesn’t help that, for a long time, we didn’t have a cohesive message—when Occupy was happening, everyone’s demands were all over the damn place and just came off as diffuse and disorganized. But like I also said, it sounds like we’re getting better about it, though I don’t know whether that’s because this place really does lean heavily left, not reflecting the population at large. That may not be such a bad thing though, this place could be a good place for planning action.
I don’t disagree that the democrats are, at best, milquetoast, feckless do-nothings, but fighting everyone at once seems like it’s going to be an abject disaster with any victories being pyrrhic, if existent at all. I hope I’m wrong. I just don’t want my daughter, anyone’s daughter, to become a brood mare for the dominionist state.
I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate
Who's "we"? I know exactly which race and generation is to blame for all this pro-corporate trash that keeps making it's way through the Democratic primaries. And even people who say "Well more of you show up to the primaries!" argue that liberal and moderate voters won't vote for progressive or leftist candidates or even a liberal or moderate candidate who dares materially compromise with progressive or leftist policy. So we'll win the primary only to lose the general.
“We”, in a much larger sense than this community here. There is so much preaching to the choir here that one would think there’s a much larger movement than there really is, but what proportion of the electorate at large is properly informed even about Palestine, let alone everything else, beyond the processed shit they’re allowed to consume by the mainstream media [christ I’m so sick of that term] and social media? The public at large is ignorant as hell because they’re being lied to, progressive policy is popular and yet so many don’t even fucking know it.
This needs to go beyond voting, there needs to be actual outreach instead of this endless internet posturing, and it needs to be more than sanctimonious finger wagging, on both sides (not in the blue vs red sense, but referring to our own infighting). We need to dial back on both the “paving the way for the fascists to win” and the “you support genocide” rhetoric. I cannot seriously believe that anyone who argues in good faith wants any of this to happen, but we’re I, for one, am goddamned terrified and know full well that no matter who wins, we lose. It’s just that one route to fascism is the autobahn and the other is a backroad with a slightly reduced speed limit, by which nobody abides anyway.
Again, maybe I’m wrong. I hope to high hell that I’m wrong, both that everyone outside the terminally online is as distracted and ignorant as I think they are, and that the redhat ghouls will be less incompetent and succeed in turning this into an authoritarian dictatorship. My wife, who has been on the left but fairly hands-off as it relates to activism, is charged up as hell over this disaster, as are the vanishingly few people with whom we still actually socialize. The craven overreach on women’s rights is bringing more people into the fold, has actually made a small difference, and could continue to do so so long as everyone avoids becoming complacent. I desperately want to be wrong but I am a terminal pessimist and my hope was murdered a long, long time ago, as was my faith not only in our institutions but also in society as a whole. Nothing fucking matters anymore.
Mostly unrelated and entirely tangential, we could learn a few things from that fucking scumbag Trump, in that we (again, the larger population “we” and our useless nonrepresentative representatives) aren’t loud enough, we’re not nearly vicious enough, and we don’t brag about our victories enough. Enough of this “when they go low we go high”, Patagonia vest-wearing, tepid granola-in-oatmilk horseshit. I don’t believe that sewage golem has the charisma everyone says he does but [a] his fucking rubes are certainly in his thrall and [b] I’m a terrible judge of charisma anyway because I have absolutely none of it myself, otherwise I’d be running for something here. But we need someone like that, except not a murderous tinpot.
Doubt. They'll just bury in sand and go even farther/faster right
Then we're fucked anyway. Let's get it overwith.
The line is wearing thin, since democracy keeps being in greater peril even when we elect Democratic majorities.
Democrats would rather protect the filibuster than democracy.
I just perused the Wikipedia page, doesn’t seem like a boogeyman to me. Considering it’s backed by the Heritage Foundation. It seems horrifying to be honest.
Don't worry. I'm sure they don't really mean to install Trump as the president for life, make LGBTQ+ illegal, instill Christianty as the state religion, deploy the military for law enforcement, etc, etc. Hitler didn't REALLY mean he was gonna kill millions of people!
I don't think they can pull it off. it's a ghost story.
Let me guess- if you are American you stopped hanging out with your right-wing neighbors/family? Because for some insane reason, I didn't. This is 100% what they actually believe. They really think that anything left of Trump is part of the deep state conspiracy, homeschool their kids, think that bringing back "god" in school/state will fix everything, that Trump will save the country, etc, etc. Some of them already know about project 2025 and have greeted it with thunderous applause, the rest of the right will too.
If you are not American, fuck off. You have no idea how bad the right-wingers really have become
you don't know anything about me
this whole comment is attacking me personally rather than refuting anything I said
Because you said nothing other than "Nuh uh"
wrong
You haven't made any statements worth refuting, you've only given your unsubstantiated personal opinion.
You didn’t say anything of actual value comrade. Explain to me why you think something backed by the heritage foundation, which is a big money organization and not something to be taken lightly, holds no weight? I’m not American, but seeing this makes me worried for Americans. It seems like Republican takeover of a huge amount of power in the states.
The democrats are atrocious for leftist movements. This is not debatable. But this is death of the leftist movement in America shit as far as I can tell. It seems like a huge leap towards Christo-fascism if attainable. I don’t see it as something that should just be ignored on any level. Why do you feel that it is? Maybe you know something I don’t.
I don't think I have some special knowledge. the heritage foundation are impotent, and p2025 is like a child's letter to Santa. they will get some of it, but they'd be getting that whether they wrote the paper or no.
Saying The Heritage Foundation is impotent might be the most ignorant thing I've ever seen. The Heritage Foundation is basically running the judicial system in our country. Their strategy completely worked they control the Supreme Court and they control a lot of the federal courts in this Nation. They are an existential threat to democracy. Project 2025 is a road map. Anyone who can't see that at this point is probably rooting for that road map.
the heritage foundation is a lot less scary to me than black rock, chase, meta, alphabet, and the actual fucking government (fisa courts, nsa spying, international spying agreements, criminalizing protests).
this is all shit that already threatens us. the heritage foundation didn't make this happen: america is fascist, and they are just cheerleaders.
You don’t think that they had anything to do with the half-century-long backslide into dominionist authoritarianism? They have playing the long game, and it’s happened because they had the patience to make it happen at a frog-boiling pace, and we only paid attention when they said the quiet parts out loud.
Who the hell do you think developed the Reagan doctrine? They’ve had a heavy hand in tons of policy making, both domestic and foreign, for as long as I’ve been alive. All those other groups you’ve mentioned are just bolstering their influence, helping to get their bidding done.
I must say I'm rather flabbergasted by this comment. You're not worried about the Heritage Foundation. You are however worried about the people who fund the Heritage Foundation and the Endeavors the Heritage Foundation seeks to achieve?
The government doesn't fund the heritage foundation. Facebook doesn't find the heritage foundation. Google doesn't fund the heritage foundation. who is it that you think funds the heritage foundation?
I'm not worried about p2025, if that's what you mean.
Its not, but plenty of Lemmy accounts are running around with a vested interest of convincing one and all that Biden and Dump are the exact same candidate and not voting is the answer. Its why theyll spam anything and everything about the Gaza genocide to the front page while not so sneakily inserting comments like this or, "gEnOciDe JoE" in the middle of it all.
>not voting is the answer
no one said that
Or maybe people have a legitimate moral concern when their country is aiding and abetting an ongoing genocide?
Two things can be happening. People with a legitimate moral concern, such as myself, don't actively act against that concern by helping elect a candidate who would make that concern even worse. There are ways to express our anger and sorrow about Biden's handling of this without supporting Trump.
Biden is going to lose if he continues his genocidal policy in Gaza.
People like me put pressure on the Biden admin to change course. By engaging in good faith criticism, I am trying to get Biden elected.
People who refuse to criticize Biden enable him to continue on this losing path. Enabling the worst of the Biden administration's policies is helping to elect Trump.
Yes, I completely agree, so far as I can without looking up your post and comment history to confirm that you do what you are saying here you do, but taking your word for that. Good faith criticism isn't what Pan_Ziemniak seemed to be describing.
I left a reply to the other reply under ur comment, if ur curious to hear me elaborate on the patterns im describing. As u stated, it is not good faith criticism that im railing against. Theres not a person i know who doesnt criticize Biden, but thats not what im afraid of here.
Good faith criticism isn’t what Pan_Ziemniak seemed to be describing.
That's because what he was describing is a strawman.
Its bc what i was describing won me tons of bans on reddit post API changes, and then was the first thing I noticed here on lemmy on literally day 1 of making an account. The pushback at the moment is real, but take note how you hardly hear the world news subs talk about Ukraine being genocided, but you only hear about Gaza, even though the casualty count in Ukraine is much higher. The Gaza posting is relentless, too. Almost like its a distraction from the place that russia has described as a steppingstone multiple times now.
Ive been furious at israel for over half my life. Even before they started gunning the strip down, they were an apartheid state cramming as many political prisoners as they could into their jail cells. Somehow tho, that went from being a fringe opinion to all u hear about overnight. Accounts link the ones i listed in another cpmment spam post anything and everything they cant to keep the eyes of the public where they need to be. Its no coincidence that this aligns perfectly with russian goals.
Meanwhile, weve got Status Quo Joe following up on 70 years of precedent and selling arms to whats been a key middle eastern ally of the States, and everyone acts all shocked pikachu that we dont get to just shit on our worldwide softpowers and convince our remaining allies who are very wary of our continued political instability that we may just abandon them too, if only the tides swing the other way. The genocide in Gaza will not be stopped, but for the first time in my life the man in the oval office is actually dishing out criticism of israel and stood behind Schumer when he aaid israel could use new untimely elections over this.
In the other corner, youve a man who doesnt want any more free elections in the country, rubs shoulders with dictators of countries that want nothing more than for the US to be utterly ruined, and actively campaigns on allowing not just the ongoing genocides to continue, but also genociding our own, native vulnerable groups.
In 2016 id bring up the russian trolls/shills to some who claimed "nonsense, not here on reddit," or the comments sections of whatever news it was they followed. And yet, we still learned after the fact that almost every account in the country had directly interacted with russian bots at some point or another. Id like to be clear, russias MO of deculturalizing and destabilizing countries has been pretty consistent for centuries now. I recommend watching that 1980s interview with the KGB defector that floated around reddit some years back. It outlines that bit pretty well.
What i rant about is hardly a strawman. Its pushing back against narratives that seek our end.
russias MO of deculturalizing and destabilizing countries has been pretty consistent for centuries
i don't think this can be substantiated, but i'd love to see you try
Literally the comment u replied mentions a kgb defector talking about it. I recognize u too. Ur always around to pretend russian talking points dont exist on this platform.
I'm not pretending anything. I'm demanding evidence
Literally the comment u replied mentions a kgb defector talking about it.
what evidence do you have that they were in fact a defector, they ever worked for the kgb? and, further, he only discusses soviet programs, he doesn't go back "centuries"
(Spoiler)
If that means they take (in)action that lets Donnie win a second term, they don't
this is incoherent. i think it has snark poisoning.
Orange man is so bad that you'll actively support a genocide, very enlightened, great job.
Thanks! "orange man bad /s" really takes me back to the days I was scrolling r/con for laughs
Congrats on making it to Lemmy
Orange man is going to crank it up to 11. Dems range from feckless to complicit, none of us disagree. The GOP would just straight-up take over for Israel if they can get away with it (they probably will) and they’ll sanction murder of people within our own borders.
Blue man is so not good enough for you that you’ll actively support escalating a genocide. Very enlightened, great job.
We can't afford to wait until November.
Can't escalate a genocide if they're already dead.
What is your evidence to say that all Palestinians will be dead by November?
It's hard to get Americans to care about the death and destruction that occurs at the behest of the American Empire. People like the commenter above see the people of Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and so on as subhuman cannon fodder. Why should they care about the genocide of those they don't even see as human. In their eyes, all brown Muslim people and the spectrum of humanity that resides in these countries ravished by our foreign policy, are just simply terrorists. And when younger generations watch these horrors unfold in real time on social media, and advocate for human rights, the knee-jerk reaction of Congress is to ban a social media platform rather than to have any meaningful impact on the situation, as their MIC/corporate/AIPAC donors have dictated.
Ahh, gotcha. Guess we really gotta push for Status Quo Joe harder then unless we want "stepping stone for the de-nazification of Europe" Ukraine to be genocided even harder than they currently are. Or, lemme guess, the russian talking point i see the shills parroting is, "ackshwallee, Ukraine has some guns/ammo so that mustn't be a genocide," right?
>Lemmy accounts are running around with a vested interest of convincing one and all that Biden and Dump are the exact same candidate
if this were true you could show one.
^^^
Ill add return2ozma, linkerbaan, and tokenboomer off the top of my head. Each karmawhoring to keep themselves visible.
>Each karmawhoring to keep themselves visible.
i don't think you understand how lemmy's vote system works.
none of them have said that
Also nudding whos crawled out of the woodwork. And they have, but the bulk of their work is spamming only the news they want u to see.
if they had said that it would be trivial to link.
Lol by sifting thru entire accounts and ignoring what i said about their shifting the public view towards where American adversaries want it? But u seem very keen on defending their entire post history... hmmm.
they couldn't keep bush 1 in office, no one takes their economic freedom index seriously, they didn't stop Obamacare... they're a joke.
You say that as if Obamacare was what we actually wanted. They wrote what became Obamacare decades before the tea party threw their tantrums over it, their opposition to it was political theater and the chance to water it down even further
What’s project 2025?
Project 2025 is a conservative plan to immediately reshape the executive branch and replace most people with Trump loyalists immediately if he wins. It includes dismantling the FBI and Department of Homeland Security, because while Republicans like to claim to be tough on crime, they really don't like an independently functioning Justice Department that has shown their leader to be a criminal.
Remember this is essentially what the dictator of China did to seize power in the 2000s. Ascend the ranks and replace people who didn't agree with him.
A maga movement to seize power and turn the US into a theocratic dictatorship.
A fascist purging of government the Republicans have planned if Trump wins.
Yet another reason the working class must NEVER disarm.
Yeah. Although I doubt Americans will ever have the balls to actually properly revolt. By the time it would get bad enough for them to actually consider taking up arms seriously there will be robot dog armies and it will be moot.
I hope I’m wrong though.
The same fearmongering we heard in 2016 and 2020. You must save Democracy for the 12th year in a row by voting Democrat!!
After Trump dies some other Republican will take over that says crazier shit and then you must keep saving Demoracy by always voting Democrat. Never vote third party.
Well historically I’ve voted independent. I’m Canadian, but we have similar party issues.
Honestly seeing shit like this though, if it really is just fearmongering, it’s fucking working. This shit looks horrifying to me, I’d probably end up voting for Biden just to not let trump in. And I fucking hate Biden.
Oh boy. How about the recent fumble of electoral reform by the Liberal party in Canada eh?
"Oopsie poopsie, now you HAVE TO vote for us or yous gets the conservatives again! LOL!"
Haha bro don’t even get me started on that shit. Boils my blood.
Trump already won in 2016 and the world didn't end back then. It's not going to be better than Biden but it sure as hell isn't going to be as bad as people here make it out to be.
It almost did. There was a mob of people just a couple doors away from murdering most of congress and making Trump a dictator.
The only reason Trump failed to end democracy is because he and the rest of the Republican party were just trying things without a real plan.
They have a plan now. If they get a chance to use it, they will be successful.
The Democrats sure waited a long time to prosececute Trump with that. Now the result of that trial will be after the election. Thank Democrats for saving Trump from jail.
What're you talking about? Democrats were sharply criticizing Garland for not bringing charges sooner, and still are. The Justice Department is independent, not an arm of the presidency.
And, it took Garland time to bring a case because you can't put together a case against the previous president of the US in a day. You only have one shot at a prosecution like that, and it needs to be flawless. It's like the phrase "when you swing at the King, you better not miss". It takes time to build the necessary case.
Blame the supreme court instead for being lazy and in Trump's pocket.
I hope you’re right. It went about how I thought it would go last time. That insurrection thing threw me though. And all the court cases coming after trump, as well as that project 2025 thing, this time seems different to me.
If the Dems were serious about prosecuting him he wouldn't get bailed out at the last second every time.
Also Dems purposely delayed the inserruction case now the verdict won't be until after the election. Real convenient now nothing can stop Trump except voting for Biden.
I have been really annoyed with the protest vote arguments because our system is horseshit and we still have to play within it, but there is no disagreeing with this. I’ll be voting a lot of these useless assholes back in this time as a last-ditch effort, but a purge of the bad actors is long in order. I lost faith in our institutions with Trump in charge, but when it’s come down to punishing that hunk of offal, nothing the dems have done has brought that faith back.
To be honest though, even if things in that situation were going better, I’d still be unconvinced. Outside said institutions, I truly believe that we are not participating in a society, we haven’t been for decades, and that’s got nothing to do with the government.
If that’s actually their game plan, then that’s the most idiotic game plan I’ve ever seen and it is definitely going to put trump back in the White House.
They can’t seriously be that stupid though. Can they?
I think it could be possible that this is the game plan they’re going with because it’s lazy and won’t piss off any donors, which doing things actual leftists want would definitely do.
I mean, this is the party of the pied piper strategy.
They're not stupid. They're pro-corporatists. They can't prosecute Trump without harming some other rich fucks in the process. When Trump said he'd have to have a fire sale to make the bond amount that wasn't a complaint it was a threat. Commercial real estate is already being propped up by fake numbers. If Trumps properties went up for sale it would blow that whole thing up. That's why he's being protected.
Pro-corporatism has no way of addressing fascism. And the Democrats are a pro-corporate party.
What an evil stupid system. People wonder why there’s voter apathy among leftists. This is why.
The DNC screwed over Bernie in 2016 to make sure a real progressives wouldn't win. They shoved in Hillary which was (and is) so bad she lost to Trump 1.
The Clintons actually suggested Trump to run thinking he'd be such a pathetic opponent that it would land them an easy victory.
Make no mistake, the Democrats prefer having Trump win over someone that could actually impose change.
Trump is their perfect enemy because they can keep running trash candidates and having them win solely on "not Trump".
Democrat voters screwed over Bernie, not the DNC. Bernie was on every single ballot. All people would have had to do is actually get off of their pampered asses and go vote for him. They didn't. She won. We got Trump as a result.
Yeah, if I recall correctly it was the 2020 primary where Bernie got most supremely ratfucked.
A huge propaganda campaign from the elites that control the DNC does wonders.
The American fascist party was born prematurely. They've spent the last eight years incubating within the Republican party and are ready to go mask-off now.
Bush was way worse than Trump.
Aside from saying some real dumb shit Trumps presidency was a lot milder than expected.
I would agree with you, except for COVID. That shit was nuts. Trump would have easily won re-election if he just let scientists make decisions.
Edit: Thinking about it more, you’re right. War and occupation directly and indirectly claimed the lives of about a half-million Iraqis from 2003 to 2011
There also wasn’t any hurricane katrina style fiascos under Trump, as well as Trump deciding not to invade Venezuela, which was a surprise. The Syria shit wasn’t great, but it was NOTHING like Iraq.
God the bar is set so fucking low it’s embarrassing.
He pulled out of Afghanistan which was amazing.
Trump's biggest fail was when he drone striked Iranian general Suleimani at the request of Israel. But luckily Iran didn't decide to escalate it so we didn't get a big war back then.
Biden pulled out of Afghanistan, not Trump.
Trump started it actually. Biden just did it a bit poorly but better than an extended fight.
Yeah. I feel like Biden did that because he knew he could divert all the military funding directly into the Ukraine situation and not piss off his Raytheon people.
Trump's influence on the Supreme Court has been utterly disastrous for the US and leftist causes
You can thank the Democratic judge for refusing to step down under Obama so he could have appointed a new one.
Nobody thought Trump was going to win until too late. RBG thought the next president would also be a Democrat.
But she was also naive and thought that she should do her job as long as possible, and that Republicans could be reasoned with. The court really needs a max age.
Regardless, this is a bit moot, since Trump had 3 total SCOTUS picks. RBG's seat was just one.
And once again, we can thank the DNC for sabotaging Bernie to make Hillary the candidate.
Even better if we just go back to Obama who had all power and was asked to codify abortion rights, and then didn't. Because it's a great tool to keep people voting Democrat.
The President does not have the power to codify abortion rights. That power lies with Congress. And I believe I've previously explained why Democrats were unable to do that. They had a 60 vote majority for all of a few months, and you had Democrats more conservative than Manchin in those days.
It's kind of funny in a sense. The two parties were much more similar in the 2000s. Clinton's third way in the 90s allowed Democrats to win, but at the cost of becoming more conservative. They've since diverged significantly. Abortion didn't used to be nearly as partisan.
I think people really underestimate how badly Reagan fucked up the country. His era led to conservative dominance in US society, that's only recently started to be torn away. Society has moved much more to the left since 2010. Another way to look at this -- Sanders wouldn't have gotten the support he did in the 2000s or earlier. His message has only recently resonated with American society.
What a charmed life you must lead. I wasn’t really affected by his policies either but have you noticed the way things have been turning for the people his goons have been targeting since the chuds became empowered?
It is imperative that we bury the GOP first. Then, we absolutely can and should go knives out on Team Blue™️. I don’t disagree that Biden needs to go, and that most of the Democrats are obstacles at best to truly repairing our long-dead society. Hell, don’t just vote, actually fucking run for office, start somewhere where you aren’t so completely outgunned by the moneyed interests but you also actually make a difference. But for now, we need to take down the more immediate threat.
Throw rocks at me for saying it, but the Dems’ fecklessness is our fault too, to an extent. The problem is complacency when the pendulum appears to have swung in our direction, like “yeah we got the job done!* Let’s have pizza and congratulate ourselves and go back home!” Fortunately, it may finally no longer be the case. But for christ’s sake, can we not throw the baby out with the bathwater? The upcoming, inevitable fight will be less harrowing if we can keep from actively making the battlefield more hazardous, which absolutely will happen with a Trump win.
*christ, I remember when Obama was elected and there was a false prospect of healthcare reform, Newsweek published a rather insulting cover saying, “we are all socialists now”, simultaneously feeding the right’s paranoia and patronizing the left in such an insulting way
You're not going to bury the GOP by voting Democrat. You will just worsen the situation.
Biden is continuing to build the wall, jailed twice as many immigrants as Trump, is committing Genocide, and so much more. Biden is just a GOP candidate with D in front of his name. He is one of the biggest establishment democrats who has built his career on empowering the elites.
Fine. Trump ‘24 then. Whatever, he’ll fix it.
Probably not. But maybe the moderate and liberal voters will finally wake the fuck up and realize they need to compromise with leftists or progressives if they want to win elections.
Ehh, I think it’s more that we have to be a better electorate and put better people in office in the first place, even (and especially) when there is a dem majority. Like I said, we have had the tendency to get complacent when that’s the case. It also doesn’t help that, for a long time, we didn’t have a cohesive message—when Occupy was happening, everyone’s demands were all over the damn place and just came off as diffuse and disorganized. But like I also said, it sounds like we’re getting better about it, though I don’t know whether that’s because this place really does lean heavily left, not reflecting the population at large. That may not be such a bad thing though, this place could be a good place for planning action.
I don’t disagree that the democrats are, at best, milquetoast, feckless do-nothings, but fighting everyone at once seems like it’s going to be an abject disaster with any victories being pyrrhic, if existent at all. I hope I’m wrong. I just don’t want my daughter, anyone’s daughter, to become a brood mare for the dominionist state.
Who's "we"? I know exactly which race and generation is to blame for all this pro-corporate trash that keeps making it's way through the Democratic primaries. And even people who say "Well more of you show up to the primaries!" argue that liberal and moderate voters won't vote for progressive or leftist candidates or even a liberal or moderate candidate who dares materially compromise with progressive or leftist policy. So we'll win the primary only to lose the general.
“We”, in a much larger sense than this community here. There is so much preaching to the choir here that one would think there’s a much larger movement than there really is, but what proportion of the electorate at large is properly informed even about Palestine, let alone everything else, beyond the processed shit they’re allowed to consume by the mainstream media [christ I’m so sick of that term] and social media? The public at large is ignorant as hell because they’re being lied to, progressive policy is popular and yet so many don’t even fucking know it.
This needs to go beyond voting, there needs to be actual outreach instead of this endless internet posturing, and it needs to be more than sanctimonious finger wagging, on both sides (not in the blue vs red sense, but referring to our own infighting). We need to dial back on both the “paving the way for the fascists to win” and the “you support genocide” rhetoric. I cannot seriously believe that anyone who argues in good faith wants any of this to happen, but
we’reI, for one, am goddamned terrified and know full well that no matter who wins, we lose. It’s just that one route to fascism is the autobahn and the other is a backroad with a slightly reduced speed limit, by which nobody abides anyway.Again, maybe I’m wrong. I hope to high hell that I’m wrong, both that everyone outside the terminally online is as distracted and ignorant as I think they are, and that the redhat ghouls will be less incompetent and succeed in turning this into an authoritarian dictatorship. My wife, who has been on the left but fairly hands-off as it relates to activism, is charged up as hell over this disaster, as are the vanishingly few people with whom we still actually socialize. The craven overreach on women’s rights is bringing more people into the fold, has actually made a small difference, and could continue to do so so long as everyone avoids becoming complacent. I desperately want to be wrong but I am a terminal pessimist and my hope was murdered a long, long time ago, as was my faith not only in our institutions but also in society as a whole. Nothing fucking matters anymore.
Mostly unrelated and entirely tangential, we could learn a few things from that fucking scumbag Trump, in that we (again, the larger population “we” and our useless nonrepresentative representatives) aren’t loud enough, we’re not nearly vicious enough, and we don’t brag about our victories enough. Enough of this “when they go low we go high”, Patagonia vest-wearing, tepid granola-in-oatmilk horseshit. I don’t believe that sewage golem has the charisma everyone says he does but [a] his fucking rubes are certainly in his thrall and [b] I’m a terrible judge of charisma anyway because I have absolutely none of it myself, otherwise I’d be running for something here. But we need someone like that, except not a murderous tinpot.
Doubt. They'll just bury in sand and go even farther/faster right
Then we're fucked anyway. Let's get it overwith.
The line is wearing thin, since democracy keeps being in greater peril even when we elect Democratic majorities.
Democrats would rather protect the filibuster than democracy.
Pass electoral reform in your state first, then you can vote third party with zero chance of a spoiler effect.
Check out a video on First Past the Post voting if you'd like to learn more.
a boogeyman
I just perused the Wikipedia page, doesn’t seem like a boogeyman to me. Considering it’s backed by the Heritage Foundation. It seems horrifying to be honest.
Don't worry. I'm sure they don't really mean to install Trump as the president for life, make LGBTQ+ illegal, instill Christianty as the state religion, deploy the military for law enforcement, etc, etc. Hitler didn't REALLY mean he was gonna kill millions of people!
I don't think they can pull it off. it's a ghost story.
Let me guess- if you are American you stopped hanging out with your right-wing neighbors/family? Because for some insane reason, I didn't. This is 100% what they actually believe. They really think that anything left of Trump is part of the deep state conspiracy, homeschool their kids, think that bringing back "god" in school/state will fix everything, that Trump will save the country, etc, etc. Some of them already know about project 2025 and have greeted it with thunderous applause, the rest of the right will too.
If you are not American, fuck off. You have no idea how bad the right-wingers really have become
you don't know anything about me
this whole comment is attacking me personally rather than refuting anything I said
Because you said nothing other than "Nuh uh"
wrong
You haven't made any statements worth refuting, you've only given your unsubstantiated personal opinion.
You didn’t say anything of actual value comrade. Explain to me why you think something backed by the heritage foundation, which is a big money organization and not something to be taken lightly, holds no weight? I’m not American, but seeing this makes me worried for Americans. It seems like Republican takeover of a huge amount of power in the states.
The democrats are atrocious for leftist movements. This is not debatable. But this is death of the leftist movement in America shit as far as I can tell. It seems like a huge leap towards Christo-fascism if attainable. I don’t see it as something that should just be ignored on any level. Why do you feel that it is? Maybe you know something I don’t.
I don't think I have some special knowledge. the heritage foundation are impotent, and p2025 is like a child's letter to Santa. they will get some of it, but they'd be getting that whether they wrote the paper or no.
Saying The Heritage Foundation is impotent might be the most ignorant thing I've ever seen. The Heritage Foundation is basically running the judicial system in our country. Their strategy completely worked they control the Supreme Court and they control a lot of the federal courts in this Nation. They are an existential threat to democracy. Project 2025 is a road map. Anyone who can't see that at this point is probably rooting for that road map.
the heritage foundation is a lot less scary to me than black rock, chase, meta, alphabet, and the actual fucking government (fisa courts, nsa spying, international spying agreements, criminalizing protests).
this is all shit that already threatens us. the heritage foundation didn't make this happen: america is fascist, and they are just cheerleaders.
You don’t think that they had anything to do with the half-century-long backslide into dominionist authoritarianism? They have playing the long game, and it’s happened because they had the patience to make it happen at a frog-boiling pace, and we only paid attention when they said the quiet parts out loud.
Who the hell do you think developed the Reagan doctrine? They’ve had a heavy hand in tons of policy making, both domestic and foreign, for as long as I’ve been alive. All those other groups you’ve mentioned are just bolstering their influence, helping to get their bidding done.
I must say I'm rather flabbergasted by this comment. You're not worried about the Heritage Foundation. You are however worried about the people who fund the Heritage Foundation and the Endeavors the Heritage Foundation seeks to achieve?
The government doesn't fund the heritage foundation. Facebook doesn't find the heritage foundation. Google doesn't fund the heritage foundation. who is it that you think funds the heritage foundation?
I'm not worried about p2025, if that's what you mean.
Its not, but plenty of Lemmy accounts are running around with a vested interest of convincing one and all that Biden and Dump are the exact same candidate and not voting is the answer. Its why theyll spam anything and everything about the Gaza genocide to the front page while not so sneakily inserting comments like this or, "gEnOciDe JoE" in the middle of it all.
>not voting is the answer
no one said that
Or maybe people have a legitimate moral concern when their country is aiding and abetting an ongoing genocide?
Two things can be happening. People with a legitimate moral concern, such as myself, don't actively act against that concern by helping elect a candidate who would make that concern even worse. There are ways to express our anger and sorrow about Biden's handling of this without supporting Trump.
Biden is going to lose if he continues his genocidal policy in Gaza.
People like me put pressure on the Biden admin to change course. By engaging in good faith criticism, I am trying to get Biden elected.
People who refuse to criticize Biden enable him to continue on this losing path. Enabling the worst of the Biden administration's policies is helping to elect Trump.
Yes, I completely agree, so far as I can without looking up your post and comment history to confirm that you do what you are saying here you do, but taking your word for that. Good faith criticism isn't what Pan_Ziemniak seemed to be describing.
I left a reply to the other reply under ur comment, if ur curious to hear me elaborate on the patterns im describing. As u stated, it is not good faith criticism that im railing against. Theres not a person i know who doesnt criticize Biden, but thats not what im afraid of here.
That's because what he was describing is a strawman.
Its bc what i was describing won me tons of bans on reddit post API changes, and then was the first thing I noticed here on lemmy on literally day 1 of making an account. The pushback at the moment is real, but take note how you hardly hear the world news subs talk about Ukraine being genocided, but you only hear about Gaza, even though the casualty count in Ukraine is much higher. The Gaza posting is relentless, too. Almost like its a distraction from the place that russia has described as a steppingstone multiple times now.
Ive been furious at israel for over half my life. Even before they started gunning the strip down, they were an apartheid state cramming as many political prisoners as they could into their jail cells. Somehow tho, that went from being a fringe opinion to all u hear about overnight. Accounts link the ones i listed in another cpmment spam post anything and everything they cant to keep the eyes of the public where they need to be. Its no coincidence that this aligns perfectly with russian goals.
Meanwhile, weve got Status Quo Joe following up on 70 years of precedent and selling arms to whats been a key middle eastern ally of the States, and everyone acts all shocked pikachu that we dont get to just shit on our worldwide softpowers and convince our remaining allies who are very wary of our continued political instability that we may just abandon them too, if only the tides swing the other way. The genocide in Gaza will not be stopped, but for the first time in my life the man in the oval office is actually dishing out criticism of israel and stood behind Schumer when he aaid israel could use new untimely elections over this.
In the other corner, youve a man who doesnt want any more free elections in the country, rubs shoulders with dictators of countries that want nothing more than for the US to be utterly ruined, and actively campaigns on allowing not just the ongoing genocides to continue, but also genociding our own, native vulnerable groups.
In 2016 id bring up the russian trolls/shills to some who claimed "nonsense, not here on reddit," or the comments sections of whatever news it was they followed. And yet, we still learned after the fact that almost every account in the country had directly interacted with russian bots at some point or another. Id like to be clear, russias MO of deculturalizing and destabilizing countries has been pretty consistent for centuries now. I recommend watching that 1980s interview with the KGB defector that floated around reddit some years back. It outlines that bit pretty well.
What i rant about is hardly a strawman. Its pushing back against narratives that seek our end.
i don't think this can be substantiated, but i'd love to see you try
Literally the comment u replied mentions a kgb defector talking about it. I recognize u too. Ur always around to pretend russian talking points dont exist on this platform.
I'm not pretending anything. I'm demanding evidence
what evidence do you have that they were in fact a defector, they ever worked for the kgb? and, further, he only discusses soviet programs, he doesn't go back "centuries"
(Spoiler)
If that means they take (in)action that lets Donnie win a second term, they don't
this is incoherent. i think it has snark poisoning.
Orange man is so bad that you'll actively support a genocide, very enlightened, great job.
Thanks! "orange man bad /s" really takes me back to the days I was scrolling r/con for laughs
Congrats on making it to Lemmy
Orange man is going to crank it up to 11. Dems range from feckless to complicit, none of us disagree. The GOP would just straight-up take over for Israel if they can get away with it (they probably will) and they’ll sanction murder of people within our own borders.
Blue man is so not good enough for you that you’ll actively support escalating a genocide. Very enlightened, great job.
We can't afford to wait until November.
Can't escalate a genocide if they're already dead.
What is your evidence to say that all Palestinians will be dead by November?
It's hard to get Americans to care about the death and destruction that occurs at the behest of the American Empire. People like the commenter above see the people of Syria, Palestine, Lebanon, Afghanistan, Iraq, Yemen, and so on as subhuman cannon fodder. Why should they care about the genocide of those they don't even see as human. In their eyes, all brown Muslim people and the spectrum of humanity that resides in these countries ravished by our foreign policy, are just simply terrorists. And when younger generations watch these horrors unfold in real time on social media, and advocate for human rights, the knee-jerk reaction of Congress is to ban a social media platform rather than to have any meaningful impact on the situation, as their MIC/corporate/AIPAC donors have dictated.
Ahh, gotcha. Guess we really gotta push for Status Quo Joe harder then unless we want "stepping stone for the de-nazification of Europe" Ukraine to be genocided even harder than they currently are. Or, lemme guess, the russian talking point i see the shills parroting is, "ackshwallee, Ukraine has some guns/ammo so that mustn't be a genocide," right?
>Lemmy accounts are running around with a vested interest of convincing one and all that Biden and Dump are the exact same candidate
if this were true you could show one.
^^^
Ill add return2ozma, linkerbaan, and tokenboomer off the top of my head. Each karmawhoring to keep themselves visible.
>Each karmawhoring to keep themselves visible.
i don't think you understand how lemmy's vote system works.
none of them have said that
Also nudding whos crawled out of the woodwork. And they have, but the bulk of their work is spamming only the news they want u to see.
if they had said that it would be trivial to link.
Lol by sifting thru entire accounts and ignoring what i said about their shifting the public view towards where American adversaries want it? But u seem very keen on defending their entire post history... hmmm.
Well, you, for a start.
I have never said that
they couldn't keep bush 1 in office, no one takes their economic freedom index seriously, they didn't stop Obamacare... they're a joke.
You say that as if Obamacare was what we actually wanted. They wrote what became Obamacare decades before the tea party threw their tantrums over it, their opposition to it was political theater and the chance to water it down even further