Well, at least that's a logically consistent position in the issue, even if I vehemently disagree with their broader stance. Of course, they would need to extend that to allow women to claim unborn children as dependents in their taxes, allow women to drive in the HOV lane alone with their fetus, etc.
I LOL'd at the quote about men not liking that, and paying child support from the time of conception was dumb. Yeah, no shit, dumbass. There goes your logical inconsistency again.
It may seem consistent but Republicans aren't going to extend benefits to people that logically follow from this. Not without a SCOTUS case. They don't care about logic, they care about hurting women.
They don’t care about logic, they care about hurting women.
100%. There are plenty of studies showing that abortion bans lead to more unsafe abortions and worse health outcomes for women and children, besides "pro-life" sentiment explaining very little of the left-right difference in abortion stance.
I don't know if they want to hurt them, per se. I think they want to control them
Depends on the color of their skin.
Well, that's unfortunately true...
The party that actively fights to take away support to actual alive people are against this too? Shocker
It's the party of SmAlL gOvErNmEnt
Isn't banning things making the government bigger?
What if everyone is denying being the father?
Who has a DNA test? Who's forced to take one? Are they going to make every guy the girl knows take a DNA test to enforce this? Can they? What if the guy split a week ago and no one's seen him? What if no one has any idea who she fucked and she hasn't seen him since a party everyone was drunk at?
This isn't enforceable in most situations unless the father claims to be the father. So... don't, if you want an easy out?
I mean sure, but you could also be an adult and claim the baby as yours if it is yours. If you don't want a baby try contraception. I get it sometimes mistakes happen, but that's the risk you take when playing that particular game.
Or you can just allow, you know, abortion for women that don't want the child either. Mitigating the risk in all ways possible should be allowed 😉
I am 100% pro choice. With that choice though is her option to keep the baby. And if they do hopefully it is a good relationship and the man steps up.
If it isn't and they don't want to stay together at least the man can avoid fighting her over shit and just man up, admit the child is his and pay/ deal with the issues.
Well there are plenty of instances where the woman uses the baby to trap the father too. I agree though, hopefully it's a good relationship and the man steps up to take care of the child.
100% there is a risk for that. That's why you take all the precautions you reasonably can. Pappa always said "don't stick it in crazy". The older i get the wiser that man becomes.
Ideally we don't have to deal with that and every couple is happy, but that isn't the case all the time. I'm pro choice for a reason. Mistakes happen and sometimes it is better for everyone that the baby doesn't come into the world. But if it does and the father just bails and tries to say it's not his that's what gets me. You played the game, you lost, deal with it. Even if the relationship doesn't work out with the mother, do what you can to make the child's life better.
Thats just a shitty argument. That argument will never help anyone facing these issues in reality cause they are just fuckin'. You can try to act like most humans plan ahead, they don't. We know this is what happens, but nobody is a saint here resisting all their primal urges.
I stated nowhere that we are saints. I sure as hell am not one. I don't give a shit of people plan ahead or don't.
If you can't resist your primal urges, an freak accident happens and she gets pregnant and wants to keep it? Man the fuck up and claim it as yours. Don't make someone that is already going through a lot have to force you to acknowledge the child. And if you don't want the child step out of its life but you will still be passing child support.
You don't want to deal with all that as a possibility? Well you best damn resist those primal urges because that is a possibility.
Just let people get abortions. Nobody is addicted to them because they are fucking painful. Nobody is abusing them and using them as Plan B. Its just not happening. The only real reason to restrict them is to tell women to shut the fuck up like the bible says. So I don't really so a point. I did man up, I have 3 children, all from jus fuckin'. I'm just saying it should be an option if we are truly free, so obviously we are not.
Edit: ngl this post was necro'd by you so I didn't really read too much into what you replied. If you don't want people getting abortions don't get one yourself and that is the extent of your control over others.
"Necrod" for responding to a response to me when i haven't checked lemmy messages in 2 days so i didn't know anyone responded to me? Ffs man/woman/whatever. I just responded to the two other people that responded to me as well.
Also I'm pro choice, all about people having the choice of abortions. I never once said don't get an abortion. And if you are to lazy to read the whole response why respond? I'm just out here trying to have a semi intelligent conversation.
Then you can man up and let other people choose what they want to do.
I'm sorry did me saying man up tilt you? Or hit to close to home?
Yeah cause its dumb. Its a sweeping generalization that takes into account nothing of either party. I'm saying this as someone who chose to stay and morally agrees with you. But in reality the "man up and take the child" stance morphs into abusive parents quite often. It sucks cause you want everyone to have a fair chance and be raised like they should, but it doesn't take into account if either parent is even able to emotionally and materially provide that. Its a shit ton of work caring for and raising children.
Edit: and before you say "then they shouldn't be fukkin'," I just won't bother if that is your argument.
I never said "man up and take the child" i said man up and take responsibility. There are uncountable different issues with sticking together for the kid and some reasons why it isn't feasible to have a abortion. Sometimes the best choice for the kid is abortion, sometimes it is the father just fucks right off and sends monthly child support, and sometimes it is sticking together as a couple because you want to be together and raise a family with the kid.
What is not acceptable is fighting in court for years to disown a child that is yours and you know it but you do not want to pay because it was a fling and you don't want the responsibility. Well, to fucking bad, you fucked around now deal. All they have to do is send money once a month, sure it sucks, but to fucking bad. Man up and take responsibility.
I have friends that constantly fight to get money from their exs for child support and it's fucked up that they have to deal with that on top of being a single parent.
Are you suggesting that folks shouldn't "play that particular game" i.e. have sex?
I'm suggesting, if you play the game you need to deal with the consequences one way out another.
Have an abortion, don't have an abortion, give it up for adoption up to you. But if you play the game you need to 1. Be safe 2. Be ready to deal with consequences because pregnancy is a know outcome of "the game".
My gf and i are not planning on having kids yet so she wanted to be on birth control. If it happens that she gets pregnant i will step up and be a dad, just sooner than anticipated.
Do what you want with who you want just be smart about it is all i ask. Fuck politics bringing a child into this world isn't an easy thing to do even if you are ready much less if you are not
I hear and feel ya. Taking away people's options when it comes to raising a kid is fucked. I have one kid and man it's beyond great (it isn't always). But I am glad I waited until we were older. We had that choice. Everyone should. And adoption? Great theory but I don't think it works out so great for the kid.
If you’re gonna be consistent about this “life begins at conception” bullshit, stick to your fuckin guns for once. A baby is born 9 months old, their first birthday is three months after birth—come on you fuckin cowards. That makes as much sense as anything else these fuckheads believe.
Not that I support these idiots but birthdays celebrate birth. There is a difference between conception and birth.
Really birthdays celebrate a change in age. We just call them birthdays because the 2 are the same thing.
I think until this year(?) South Koreans traditionally did something like this. You were born starting at 1 year old to count for your time kicking in gestation. There's some groundwork for FL to follow.
What the person below said. You don’t annually celebrate coming out of your moms vagina. You annually celebrate another year of your life and your age getting higher. If, like these idiots suggest they believe, life begins at conception, you would celebrate your age turning over three months after you were born. And maybe it’d have a different name, and you’d celebrate both the “birth day” and your “age day.” I remember hearing something about “name days” but I’m not sure what those are exactly.
The Christian church has assigned the name of various saints to the calendar. A "name day" is when the current day is one where the assigned saint is the same as yours. We usually celebrate it in Italy.
Post birth abortions is what they call school shootings
Yes, but those are "legal" abortions because the mother isn't making the choice.
The odds of women being murdered by a partner already go up during pregnancy. I wonder how much higher it would be if this actually happened.
However, some were supportive of the plan.
"He's almost onto something with that," one person wrote. "I've been saying if they insist that life starts at conception, men need to be paying child support at conception. Make the testing free. And demand back pay."
I can't tell if the writer is playing along with the joke or not. I read that to be quote not actually supportive of the plan, but pointing out the obvious conclusions to actually make this stupid idea work.
I think Rhonda Santis should have the right to get an abortion if she wants to.
Have you heard the good word brothers? The word is vasectomy.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ron DeSantis has been ridiculed after suggesting that one way to reduce abortions is to force men to pay child support from the moment of conception.
During an interview with DeSantis this week, Fox News' Kayleigh McEnany noted that Florida Sen. Marco Rubio has proposed legislation that would allow expectant mothers to receive child support payments while they are still pregnant.
Asked if that is something he would consider, DeSantis, who is polling in second in the race for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, said: "Most of these women do not want to have abortions, but they feel like they have no other options because they get no support and that's because a lot of these men are nowhere to be found."
DeSantis' remarks were met with criticism on social media, with some noting the proposal is unlikely to be popular with men and difficult to enforce.
"This is a great way to ensure that the Republicans never win a presidential election again," author Eric Mrozek wrote in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Chris Knight wrote that forcing men to pay child support from conception is actually "a nailed-on way to assure a massive spike in abortions."
The original article contains 558 words, the summary contains 198 words. Saved 65%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Proposed first by Marco Rubio and now DeSantis is hopping on the bandwagon.
It’s like the evil part of their brains took over the thinking part of their brains and now there’s no room for a cogent thought or argument.
Of course, my observation assumes they owned a thinking brain to begin with. Those are some slim odds.
To be honest, this is one take I could support. Absolutely nothing else in the R agenda, but maybe this. Although a better approach would just be UBI, which would cover the child's expenses
That is what I thought too. I was laughing to myself thinking, one of the worst people I know just said something that I think I support. I also agree a UBI would be a much better solution. I can’t even imagine how I’d feel if Ron Desantis supported that. I’d probably think of Viktor Frankl, renowned psychologist and holocaust camp survivor, who said something like, (I’m going to paraphrase from memory) anyone can begin making responsible choices at any point in their life and begin to live a life of purpose. I try to carry that wishing no ill will and second chance mentality. Never too late for a terrible, greedy, and/or power hungry person to be a good person and use their efforts for good.
Well, at least that's a logically consistent position in the issue, even if I vehemently disagree with their broader stance. Of course, they would need to extend that to allow women to claim unborn children as dependents in their taxes, allow women to drive in the HOV lane alone with their fetus, etc.
I LOL'd at the quote about men not liking that, and paying child support from the time of conception was dumb. Yeah, no shit, dumbass. There goes your logical inconsistency again.
It may seem consistent but Republicans aren't going to extend benefits to people that logically follow from this. Not without a SCOTUS case. They don't care about logic, they care about hurting women.
100%. There are plenty of studies showing that abortion bans lead to more unsafe abortions and worse health outcomes for women and children, besides "pro-life" sentiment explaining very little of the left-right difference in abortion stance.
I don't know if they want to hurt them, per se. I think they want to control them
Depends on the color of their skin.
Well, that's unfortunately true...
The party that actively fights to take away support to actual alive people are against this too? Shocker
It's the party of SmAlL gOvErNmEnt
Isn't banning things making the government bigger?
What if everyone is denying being the father?
Who has a DNA test? Who's forced to take one? Are they going to make every guy the girl knows take a DNA test to enforce this? Can they? What if the guy split a week ago and no one's seen him? What if no one has any idea who she fucked and she hasn't seen him since a party everyone was drunk at?
This isn't enforceable in most situations unless the father claims to be the father. So... don't, if you want an easy out?
I mean sure, but you could also be an adult and claim the baby as yours if it is yours. If you don't want a baby try contraception. I get it sometimes mistakes happen, but that's the risk you take when playing that particular game.
Or you can just allow, you know, abortion for women that don't want the child either. Mitigating the risk in all ways possible should be allowed 😉
I am 100% pro choice. With that choice though is her option to keep the baby. And if they do hopefully it is a good relationship and the man steps up.
If it isn't and they don't want to stay together at least the man can avoid fighting her over shit and just man up, admit the child is his and pay/ deal with the issues.
Well there are plenty of instances where the woman uses the baby to trap the father too. I agree though, hopefully it's a good relationship and the man steps up to take care of the child.
100% there is a risk for that. That's why you take all the precautions you reasonably can. Pappa always said "don't stick it in crazy". The older i get the wiser that man becomes.
Ideally we don't have to deal with that and every couple is happy, but that isn't the case all the time. I'm pro choice for a reason. Mistakes happen and sometimes it is better for everyone that the baby doesn't come into the world. But if it does and the father just bails and tries to say it's not his that's what gets me. You played the game, you lost, deal with it. Even if the relationship doesn't work out with the mother, do what you can to make the child's life better.
Thats just a shitty argument. That argument will never help anyone facing these issues in reality cause they are just fuckin'. You can try to act like most humans plan ahead, they don't. We know this is what happens, but nobody is a saint here resisting all their primal urges.
I stated nowhere that we are saints. I sure as hell am not one. I don't give a shit of people plan ahead or don't.
If you can't resist your primal urges, an freak accident happens and she gets pregnant and wants to keep it? Man the fuck up and claim it as yours. Don't make someone that is already going through a lot have to force you to acknowledge the child. And if you don't want the child step out of its life but you will still be passing child support.
You don't want to deal with all that as a possibility? Well you best damn resist those primal urges because that is a possibility.
Just let people get abortions. Nobody is addicted to them because they are fucking painful. Nobody is abusing them and using them as Plan B. Its just not happening. The only real reason to restrict them is to tell women to shut the fuck up like the bible says. So I don't really so a point. I did man up, I have 3 children, all from jus fuckin'. I'm just saying it should be an option if we are truly free, so obviously we are not.
Edit: ngl this post was necro'd by you so I didn't really read too much into what you replied. If you don't want people getting abortions don't get one yourself and that is the extent of your control over others.
"Necrod" for responding to a response to me when i haven't checked lemmy messages in 2 days so i didn't know anyone responded to me? Ffs man/woman/whatever. I just responded to the two other people that responded to me as well.
Also I'm pro choice, all about people having the choice of abortions. I never once said don't get an abortion. And if you are to lazy to read the whole response why respond? I'm just out here trying to have a semi intelligent conversation.
Then you can man up and let other people choose what they want to do.
I'm sorry did me saying man up tilt you? Or hit to close to home?
Yeah cause its dumb. Its a sweeping generalization that takes into account nothing of either party. I'm saying this as someone who chose to stay and morally agrees with you. But in reality the "man up and take the child" stance morphs into abusive parents quite often. It sucks cause you want everyone to have a fair chance and be raised like they should, but it doesn't take into account if either parent is even able to emotionally and materially provide that. Its a shit ton of work caring for and raising children.
Edit: and before you say "then they shouldn't be fukkin'," I just won't bother if that is your argument.
I never said "man up and take the child" i said man up and take responsibility. There are uncountable different issues with sticking together for the kid and some reasons why it isn't feasible to have a abortion. Sometimes the best choice for the kid is abortion, sometimes it is the father just fucks right off and sends monthly child support, and sometimes it is sticking together as a couple because you want to be together and raise a family with the kid.
What is not acceptable is fighting in court for years to disown a child that is yours and you know it but you do not want to pay because it was a fling and you don't want the responsibility. Well, to fucking bad, you fucked around now deal. All they have to do is send money once a month, sure it sucks, but to fucking bad. Man up and take responsibility.
I have friends that constantly fight to get money from their exs for child support and it's fucked up that they have to deal with that on top of being a single parent.
Are you suggesting that folks shouldn't "play that particular game" i.e. have sex?
I'm suggesting, if you play the game you need to deal with the consequences one way out another.
Have an abortion, don't have an abortion, give it up for adoption up to you. But if you play the game you need to 1. Be safe 2. Be ready to deal with consequences because pregnancy is a know outcome of "the game".
My gf and i are not planning on having kids yet so she wanted to be on birth control. If it happens that she gets pregnant i will step up and be a dad, just sooner than anticipated.
Do what you want with who you want just be smart about it is all i ask. Fuck politics bringing a child into this world isn't an easy thing to do even if you are ready much less if you are not
I hear and feel ya. Taking away people's options when it comes to raising a kid is fucked. I have one kid and man it's beyond great (it isn't always). But I am glad I waited until we were older. We had that choice. Everyone should. And adoption? Great theory but I don't think it works out so great for the kid.
If you’re gonna be consistent about this “life begins at conception” bullshit, stick to your fuckin guns for once. A baby is born 9 months old, their first birthday is three months after birth—come on you fuckin cowards. That makes as much sense as anything else these fuckheads believe.
Not that I support these idiots but birthdays celebrate birth. There is a difference between conception and birth.
Really birthdays celebrate a change in age. We just call them birthdays because the 2 are the same thing.
I think until this year(?) South Koreans traditionally did something like this. You were born starting at 1 year old to count for your time kicking in gestation. There's some groundwork for FL to follow.
What the person below said. You don’t annually celebrate coming out of your moms vagina. You annually celebrate another year of your life and your age getting higher. If, like these idiots suggest they believe, life begins at conception, you would celebrate your age turning over three months after you were born. And maybe it’d have a different name, and you’d celebrate both the “birth day” and your “age day.” I remember hearing something about “name days” but I’m not sure what those are exactly.
The Christian church has assigned the name of various saints to the calendar. A "name day" is when the current day is one where the assigned saint is the same as yours. We usually celebrate it in Italy.
Check out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_day
Anyone conceived in the US should be an automatic citizen.
Lol they’d love this one.
Good point. I'm going to start celebrating my Conceived Day sometime in late February
Now, for that uncomfortable conversation with my parents to find out the actual date
Post birth abortions is what they call school shootings
Yes, but those are "legal" abortions because the mother isn't making the choice.
The odds of women being murdered by a partner already go up during pregnancy. I wonder how much higher it would be if this actually happened.
I can't tell if the writer is playing along with the joke or not. I read that to be quote not actually supportive of the plan, but pointing out the obvious conclusions to actually make this stupid idea work.
I think Rhonda Santis should have the right to get an abortion if she wants to.
Have you heard the good word brothers? The word is vasectomy.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
Ron DeSantis has been ridiculed after suggesting that one way to reduce abortions is to force men to pay child support from the moment of conception.
During an interview with DeSantis this week, Fox News' Kayleigh McEnany noted that Florida Sen. Marco Rubio has proposed legislation that would allow expectant mothers to receive child support payments while they are still pregnant.
Asked if that is something he would consider, DeSantis, who is polling in second in the race for the 2024 Republican presidential nomination, said: "Most of these women do not want to have abortions, but they feel like they have no other options because they get no support and that's because a lot of these men are nowhere to be found."
DeSantis' remarks were met with criticism on social media, with some noting the proposal is unlikely to be popular with men and difficult to enforce.
"This is a great way to ensure that the Republicans never win a presidential election again," author Eric Mrozek wrote in a post on X, formerly Twitter.
Chris Knight wrote that forcing men to pay child support from conception is actually "a nailed-on way to assure a massive spike in abortions."
The original article contains 558 words, the summary contains 198 words. Saved 65%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
Proposed first by Marco Rubio and now DeSantis is hopping on the bandwagon.
It’s like the evil part of their brains took over the thinking part of their brains and now there’s no room for a cogent thought or argument.
Of course, my observation assumes they owned a thinking brain to begin with. Those are some slim odds.
To be honest, this is one take I could support. Absolutely nothing else in the R agenda, but maybe this. Although a better approach would just be UBI, which would cover the child's expenses
That is what I thought too. I was laughing to myself thinking, one of the worst people I know just said something that I think I support. I also agree a UBI would be a much better solution. I can’t even imagine how I’d feel if Ron Desantis supported that. I’d probably think of Viktor Frankl, renowned psychologist and holocaust camp survivor, who said something like, (I’m going to paraphrase from memory) anyone can begin making responsible choices at any point in their life and begin to live a life of purpose. I try to carry that wishing no ill will and second chance mentality. Never too late for a terrible, greedy, and/or power hungry person to be a good person and use their efforts for good.