We've only been saying this for 20 years, what's another 20?
We've only had a few truly catastrophic wildfires and only 23,000 homes burned down since 2017, let's wait until those numbers come up before we start wasting money on things like "replacing 100 year old infrastructure that was built to last 70." If we replaced every little thing, how would we pay the executives and shareholders?
The Green New Deal was asking for this job. makes zero sense
Record profits for shareholders could have been applied elsewhere, like investing in ourselves and what keeps the gears of society turning.
Don't worry, they will repopulate the earth with their billionaire genius genes once we all die and they return on their rockets and emerge from their sweet underground bunkers.
Texas leads the way.
Of course it is.
We have more energy consuming stuff than ever. But do you ever see NEW substations being built? NEW long range power lines? I don't.
Around here, the utility has a deal- they will sell you a top of the line $400 color touchscreen WiFi thermostat that talks to Alexa and displays the weather report and does a bunch of other shit, for $10 (not a typo). In exchange, you let them remotely shut off your AC if the grid gets overloaded.
Why do they do this? Because a few truckloads of thermostats (with a bulk discount) are a fuckton cheaper than actually upgrading the grid.
And so we hear about grid overload days and possible brownouts and incentives to shut stuff off as if this is the way it's supposed to be. But the reality is these problems only exist because utilities don't keep ahead of necessary upgrades. After all, why spend the money when there's shareholders to answer to?
This is not a remotely accurate assessment of demand side management programs. Such programs are overwhelmingly required of IOUs by states since they tend to be cheaper than infrastructure upgrades for everyone. Utilities on the other hand tend to prefer infrastructure upgrades because they get a guaranteed rate of return typically. You have this completely backwards.
Interesting. Do you have any sources on this or more reading material behind it? I have yet to really see any things suggesting utilities are asking to do CapEx on infrastructure improvements but are being told no.
I think I gave off the wrong impression that these are more linked than they are, sorry. Many states require cost effective EE because it's generally good policy (benefits outweigh costs), and some of those benefits include not having to build new capacity. PUCs generally also support infrastructure investments, and with guaranteed rates of return on most T&D for example, it's a no brainer. So states are often doing both, and there are varying options about the merits of each. To your question though, one notable recent example is the gas pipeline that Gov Cuomo vetoed, which led to more gas efficiency programs in downstate NY.
I'm also embarrassed to report I can't think of a good source for you since I'm in the industry, other than primary sources like utility financial statements, rate cases, state regulations, etc. Hope this was helpful - it's a fascinating industry.
It's not a new idea. They used to do RF transmitters back in the 90s
With rooftop solar I get to be the asshole that doesn't care about the grid.
And you too can be an asshole!
The orientation of my house sucks and our neighborhood has many old growth trees. I wish I could be that asshole, but after running the numbers I don't even break even over the expected lifespan of the panels. :(
Stick a windmill up there, that aughta do it!
If that ain't enough, get a nuclear plant installed in your backyard 😤💯
Tiny lot + aforementioned old growth trees means that's also not viable. :( My "best" option (which I have) is a nat gas backup generator for when the grid goes down. It's expensive, and very much NOT a clean energy source, but it's what I have to work with. I work 100% from home and need full-time power.
Your right! There are many kinds of renewables.
*you're right.
*wind turbine
With (only) rooftop solar you're still dependent at night, and during the day when it's cloudy.
You are correct. I am on the grid instead of having a battery.
But any minute I might just buy a battery!
FYI, right now LiFePo server rack style batteries seem to be the best bang for your buck. If I had the money, I would buy the EG4 or similar.
I would love to get it, but I am getting hounded two or three times a weekend by door-to-door solar salespeople.
It's always the same shit routine they pull about saying they are just passing the word about some change the power company just did or something. They supposedly just want to give a "consultation" about what that means and they are not trying to sell me anything.
If their blatant trespassing didn't already piss me off, their bullshit faux consultation pitch absolutely does.
The end result? I really don't want anything to do with any solar company, at all. It's a shame, TBH. I really don't want to start shopping for solar in full defense mode like I am about to buy a used car. The sales people in that industry have absolutely fucked it for me.
That reminds me. I have a three part Ring recording of one of those people going into mental meltdown saying that offering me a quote and consultation was not solicitation. It's hysterical.
That really is unfortunate. Maybe if you found and chose a company yourself...?
True. If there is a positive to my rant, it's that I am getting a list of companies not use.
Go all in and do it yourself
Honestly, that is something that really interests me. If there is anything that I am holding out for, it's solid state lithium batteries. (A significant battery bank is high on my list of requirements and having garage full of current generation li-ion batteries still makes me cringe a little.) Prices should be much better once they go into mass production for EVs. Hopefully.
People still often use lead acid for solar storage as energy density is less of a concern when you are just stacking them on a shelf.
Sadly, I am space constrained so no lead acid batteries for me. Having the ability to actually maintain my own batteries would have its perks though.
Buying used panels and mounting them yourself can be very cost effective, you would only need to hire an electrician. Of course be aware of local code regarding such things. I understand that the time commitment isn’t an option for some people.
diysolarforum.com
It's not rocket surgery.
Lots of great content there! If you are remotely a DIYer and have the means, do a lot of the solar install yourself and hire pros to ensure you're safe/ connect to grid if needed.
If the US got similar problems as Norway, you should still care as there is a lot of energy wasted on transferring it from A to B.
Aren't they expensive as Frick though?
Solar panels? They keep getting cheaper. And great federal rebate on them now in the US. I think it's 30%?
They pay for themselves, how long changes by area
Yeah, but I mean aren't they the price of a small used car? My bill averages $100 a month, except in winter when it doubles. That's a looong time for it to pay itself off.
Nationalise utilities. But the GOP would just attack them when they are in power. Fucken hate the clown show. Maintenance is bad all over this fucking country cause everyone gets so butthurt they can't pinch those pennies into their own accounts. Its fucken maddening I hope the whole bitch falls apart just so I can rub the ashes in their faces.
The power at my place goes out if it's a little windy, or if it rains just a little too long. So yeah, no shit.
I vaguely remember a TV movie from like... 2006 where some kind of solar storm /coronal mass ejection thing happens right as some hacker was trying to "HEY EVERYONE THIS SYSTEM IS VULNERABLE AND YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BEFORE A BAD GUY TAKES CONTROL" type hack of the electrical grid, and the combination of the hack and solar radiation causing most of the US power grid to shut down
I haven't seen anything in real life to convince me the power gris isn't a prince ruperts drop that only works because it's never been shut down all at once before, and once it does that tail shatters and takes the rest with it.
In fact, living near a power substation that supplies a couple major things for a nearby city, I'm convinced the only reason there hasn't been a massive attack against it is because people just assume it's well protected.
I've had 2 multiple day power outages in the Milwaukee area, and 4 or 5 shorter ones over the past few years. It literally never used to happen.
Local outages are a lot different than grid failure. But yeah local power lines are probably needing an update too.
ya think? you know there are countries where blackouts are a rare thing, not a routine occurrence....
34 years old, I've been without power a cumulative of maybe 3 days total my entire life. That includes being hit by many hurricanes including Michael which was a CAT5. You might be exaggerating a bit.
We've only been saying this for 20 years, what's another 20?
We've only had a few truly catastrophic wildfires and only 23,000 homes burned down since 2017, let's wait until those numbers come up before we start wasting money on things like "replacing 100 year old infrastructure that was built to last 70." If we replaced every little thing, how would we pay the executives and shareholders?
The Green New Deal was asking for this job. makes zero sense
Record profits for shareholders could have been applied elsewhere, like investing in ourselves and what keeps the gears of society turning.
Don't worry, they will repopulate the earth with their billionaire genius genes once we all die and they return on their rockets and emerge from their sweet underground bunkers.
Texas leads the way.
Of course it is.
We have more energy consuming stuff than ever. But do you ever see NEW substations being built? NEW long range power lines? I don't.
Around here, the utility has a deal- they will sell you a top of the line $400 color touchscreen WiFi thermostat that talks to Alexa and displays the weather report and does a bunch of other shit, for $10 (not a typo). In exchange, you let them remotely shut off your AC if the grid gets overloaded.
Why do they do this? Because a few truckloads of thermostats (with a bulk discount) are a fuckton cheaper than actually upgrading the grid.
And so we hear about grid overload days and possible brownouts and incentives to shut stuff off as if this is the way it's supposed to be. But the reality is these problems only exist because utilities don't keep ahead of necessary upgrades. After all, why spend the money when there's shareholders to answer to?
This is not a remotely accurate assessment of demand side management programs. Such programs are overwhelmingly required of IOUs by states since they tend to be cheaper than infrastructure upgrades for everyone. Utilities on the other hand tend to prefer infrastructure upgrades because they get a guaranteed rate of return typically. You have this completely backwards.
Interesting. Do you have any sources on this or more reading material behind it? I have yet to really see any things suggesting utilities are asking to do CapEx on infrastructure improvements but are being told no.
I think I gave off the wrong impression that these are more linked than they are, sorry. Many states require cost effective EE because it's generally good policy (benefits outweigh costs), and some of those benefits include not having to build new capacity. PUCs generally also support infrastructure investments, and with guaranteed rates of return on most T&D for example, it's a no brainer. So states are often doing both, and there are varying options about the merits of each. To your question though, one notable recent example is the gas pipeline that Gov Cuomo vetoed, which led to more gas efficiency programs in downstate NY.
I'm also embarrassed to report I can't think of a good source for you since I'm in the industry, other than primary sources like utility financial statements, rate cases, state regulations, etc. Hope this was helpful - it's a fascinating industry.
It's not a new idea. They used to do RF transmitters back in the 90s
With rooftop solar I get to be the asshole that doesn't care about the grid.
And you too can be an asshole!
The orientation of my house sucks and our neighborhood has many old growth trees. I wish I could be that asshole, but after running the numbers I don't even break even over the expected lifespan of the panels. :(
Stick a windmill up there, that aughta do it!
If that ain't enough, get a nuclear plant installed in your backyard 😤💯
Tiny lot + aforementioned old growth trees means that's also not viable. :( My "best" option (which I have) is a nat gas backup generator for when the grid goes down. It's expensive, and very much NOT a clean energy source, but it's what I have to work with. I work 100% from home and need full-time power.
Your right! There are many kinds of renewables.
*you're right.
*wind turbine
With (only) rooftop solar you're still dependent at night, and during the day when it's cloudy.
You are correct. I am on the grid instead of having a battery.
But any minute I might just buy a battery!
FYI, right now LiFePo server rack style batteries seem to be the best bang for your buck. If I had the money, I would buy the EG4 or similar.
Whoa awesome! https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-batteries-kit-30-72kwh-6-server-rack-batteries-with-free-pre-assembled-enclosed-rack-with-door-wheels-busbar-covers/ this just went way up on my list.... Thanks for the post!
Same boat, looking into this now...
I would love to get it, but I am getting hounded two or three times a weekend by door-to-door solar salespeople.
It's always the same shit routine they pull about saying they are just passing the word about some change the power company just did or something. They supposedly just want to give a "consultation" about what that means and they are not trying to sell me anything.
If their blatant trespassing didn't already piss me off, their bullshit faux consultation pitch absolutely does.
The end result? I really don't want anything to do with any solar company, at all. It's a shame, TBH. I really don't want to start shopping for solar in full defense mode like I am about to buy a used car. The sales people in that industry have absolutely fucked it for me.
That reminds me. I have a three part Ring recording of one of those people going into mental meltdown saying that offering me a quote and consultation was not solicitation. It's hysterical.
That really is unfortunate. Maybe if you found and chose a company yourself...?
True. If there is a positive to my rant, it's that I am getting a list of companies not use.
Go all in and do it yourself
Honestly, that is something that really interests me. If there is anything that I am holding out for, it's solid state lithium batteries. (A significant battery bank is high on my list of requirements and having garage full of current generation li-ion batteries still makes me cringe a little.) Prices should be much better once they go into mass production for EVs. Hopefully.
People still often use lead acid for solar storage as energy density is less of a concern when you are just stacking them on a shelf.
Sadly, I am space constrained so no lead acid batteries for me. Having the ability to actually maintain my own batteries would have its perks though.
You wouldnt need a garage full of batteries. Something like this should work: https://signaturesolar.com/eg4-lifepower4-lithium-batteries-kit-30-72kwh-6-server-rack-batteries-with-free-pre-assembled-enclosed-rack-with-door-wheels-busbar-covers/
Buying used panels and mounting them yourself can be very cost effective, you would only need to hire an electrician. Of course be aware of local code regarding such things. I understand that the time commitment isn’t an option for some people.
diysolarforum.com
It's not rocket surgery.
Lots of great content there! If you are remotely a DIYer and have the means, do a lot of the solar install yourself and hire pros to ensure you're safe/ connect to grid if needed.
If the US got similar problems as Norway, you should still care as there is a lot of energy wasted on transferring it from A to B.
Aren't they expensive as Frick though?
Solar panels? They keep getting cheaper. And great federal rebate on them now in the US. I think it's 30%?
They pay for themselves, how long changes by area
Yeah, but I mean aren't they the price of a small used car? My bill averages $100 a month, except in winter when it doubles. That's a looong time for it to pay itself off.
Good thing the grid is run by private corporations that always do timely maintenance. Oh wait...
Capitalism will force them to provide good service or be driven out by the competition!
uhhhhh
Nationalise utilities. But the GOP would just attack them when they are in power. Fucken hate the clown show. Maintenance is bad all over this fucking country cause everyone gets so butthurt they can't pinch those pennies into their own accounts. Its fucken maddening I hope the whole bitch falls apart just so I can rub the ashes in their faces.
The power at my place goes out if it's a little windy, or if it rains just a little too long. So yeah, no shit.
I vaguely remember a TV movie from like... 2006 where some kind of solar storm /coronal mass ejection thing happens right as some hacker was trying to "HEY EVERYONE THIS SYSTEM IS VULNERABLE AND YOU SHOULD DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT BEFORE A BAD GUY TAKES CONTROL" type hack of the electrical grid, and the combination of the hack and solar radiation causing most of the US power grid to shut down
I haven't seen anything in real life to convince me the power gris isn't a prince ruperts drop that only works because it's never been shut down all at once before, and once it does that tail shatters and takes the rest with it.
In fact, living near a power substation that supplies a couple major things for a nearby city, I'm convinced the only reason there hasn't been a massive attack against it is because people just assume it's well protected.
I've had 2 multiple day power outages in the Milwaukee area, and 4 or 5 shorter ones over the past few years. It literally never used to happen.
Local outages are a lot different than grid failure. But yeah local power lines are probably needing an update too.
ya think? you know there are countries where blackouts are a rare thing, not a routine occurrence....
34 years old, I've been without power a cumulative of maybe 3 days total my entire life. That includes being hit by many hurricanes including Michael which was a CAT5. You might be exaggerating a bit.
oh great, the only guy in America is here, thanks