They consistently put out well written, story driven, compelling narrative games. Unless they need the money to stay open, they can take their time doing what they like.
They consistently put out well written, story driven, compelling narrative games
Lmao good way of saying you have shit taste
The last of us got turned into a tv show. A very successful tv show. That stayed mostly canon to the game.
Thats a damn successful and well written video game.
Don’t take what PrincessEli says too seriously. One quick look at their profile shows you they only have consistent garbage opinions.
Reminds of that reddit meme of a guy realizing he has been discussing the taste of Italian food with someone who drank their own piss.
Seems you must have looked at your own profile by mistake
I think the point of contention is the "consistently" part to which I disagree.
Just because you can sucker a bunch of rubes with no taste into buying something, it doesn't make it good. McDonald's will never be fine dining, no matter how many billions of sludge burgers they sell
Oh, I get it.
Naughty dog refused to hire you, huh
Man you play League of Legends, pot calling the kettle black much?
I'm not one of you fags out here pretending it's the best shit in the universe and should be above criticism.
Your life must be so empty and depressing if this is how you are spending it.
Anyone noticed a rise in troll accounts lately?
If Sony was worried about that, they shouldn't have forced them to work on a multiplayer GAAS instead of what they do best.
Making platformers in the 90s and 2000s?
what they do best.
Heaping out borderline shovel ware trash?
I've heard TLOU called many things, but shovelware is a new one.
It played like utter shit, and the story was just some c tier Netflix special garbage. Funny though how all the people who defend naughty dog just jump back to a single game released over a decade ago on ps3, and literally never anything else. Niel druckmann was right about one thing, and it's that he doesn't make fun games.
I don't play AAA games (and haven't played an ND game since Jak 3) so I don't have a horse in the Naughty Dog race, but Druckmann's take on "fun" was a valid one. A work of art can be engaging and emotionally impactful even if it isn't "fun", and sometimes evaluating a game based on whether testers are, in their own opinion, "having fun" is counterproductive. Is Papers, Please fun? Is Kentucky Route Zero? Is To The Moon? Hell, what would a tester say if you asked them if they were having fun after spending an hour with Disco Elysium?
Either way, you can hate the game and its plot, but to call TLOU2 shovelware is genuinely deranged. When's the last time you played an actual shovelware release?
but Druckmann's take on "fun" was a valid one. A work of art can be engaging and emotionally impactful even if it isn't "fun",
Nah. The opposite of a fun game is a boring, frustrating, and uninteresting one. I'm glad you brought it up, because Papers please is a perfect example of a game that isn't just neon colors and Mario kart style light hearted action, but is absolutely still a fun game. The gameplay is satisfying, flows well, and does a good job at integrating into what the game is trying to convey.
And to that end, naughty dog absolutely nailed making sure their games aren't fun. I'm solidly with Reggie on this one. "If it's not fun, why bother"
Wild you can tell what side of gamer gate people were on by how toxic they are in this thread.
These type of news are pointless. Tomorrow a trailer could be released about their obvious new game that they are working on and people will forget about this. Give them time to work on the game. It's hypocritical that later we complain when companies release a unfinished product.
After cancelling the TLOU: Online game, and no more games to remaster, ND is looking pretty stale right now
Nah they could remaster Way of the Warrior for the 3DO
They must be up to something. They have the pedigree to deliver a new IP franchise and for all anyone knows that is what they're doing.
Do they?
Ignoring staff churn for a moment (that comes later): Crash Bandicoot was very much a "this also exists" on one of the most popular consoles of all time. Jak and Daxter was... also a "this also exists" on what is arguably the most popular console of all time depending on your time adjusted metrics. And Uncharted was "Wait, Tomb Raider can actually be fun to play? Holy shit" on the blu ray player everyone bought. And I want to say basically everyone (barring the chuds) universally acknowledged the new Tomb Raiders were "Uncharted but a lot better" AND wore out their welcome by the second game in the trilogy...
The Last of Us was really their first "big IP" that transcended console "fanboyism". In large part because it was two or three generations beyond the "cinematic cutscenes" that every studio was pushing for coupled with tapping into the "sad dad" zeitgeist while sort of kind of having an LGBTQ+ deuteragonist for the five people who bothered to play the DLC. And... there are a lot of reasons people got REALLY angry about the sequel...
So... back to staff churn. I am too lazy to verify so take this with a massive grain of salt, but I want to say ND were one of the more egregious studios with respect to abusing contractors and dicking over anyone who left during the years of crunch with regard to the credits? I want to say Schreier touched on it but it never gained a lot of traction because ND are the mascots of Sony. Similarly, I have not followed the various layoffs and migrations up until the last burst.
But... the last few years are pretty representative of other studios (Visceral? The Dead Space devs. They come to mind) that "lucked into" a major IP and didn't have the management necessary to repeat it. Lots of meandering, likely internally scrapped or restarted projects, and something like 3 years of "Yo, we are going to add multiplayer some day". With the various TLOU remasters a way to train up new staff to understand the tools.
Because the people who did the amazing tech wizardry that put the PS3 on a milking table and edged it into a giant gooey mess? The people who wrote and workshopped the dialogue and set pieces we love while not being high up enough to get a "director" credit? They moved on (willingly or not...). That is just the nature of the industry*. The Naughty Dog that made Jak and Daxter or Uncharted or even The Last of Us is not the Naughty Dog of today.
Oh, and there was an Uncharted game that may have been even more ignored than Jak X? And which may have had black face? I can't tell if that was a joke or not because I never got around to it.
I hope that ND have something up their sleeves because, as much as I point out the reality of their past IPs... I fucking loved all of them (and if TLOU2 were maybe half as long I would have loved that too...). Hell, I tend to piss off my friends every "gaming night" because I put all cart racing games in the context of CTR. But this all reeks of internal issues and I am not holding my breath for the inevitable "and coming soon from Naughty Dog. This new IP. We'll have more details next year" announcement.
*: Fun story. I went to Tennocon (the Warframe convention) this past year and went to the panel on writing. And I was genuinely gobsmacked to realize one of the writers on Warframe (Cam Rogers) had worked with Remedy on Quantum Break. And I chatted with him a bit after the panel and it all suddenly clicked together when he talked about having worked on some of the best (some might say only good parts...) of QB. And that lines up with the parts he "takes credit" on for Warframe. Because big names are important for the overall product, but it is the "grunts" who actually make those moments that stick with us.
Every single Uncharted was groundbreaking for its time. Not just the narrative, but the gameplay and the technology itself. They delivered again for The Last of Us and sequel. So two A-grade franchises under their belt.
Doesn't mean they'll have another hit but it stands to reason they're not sat on their asses doing nothing right now. They're either working on a TLOU spinoff or a new franchise or both. Now I'm not privy to what they're up to but I'm sure if you google "Naughty Dog rumors" you might pick up some hints. e.g. one rumour suggests a game codenamed Paradox whose description sounds oddly close to what the Fallen London (Sunless Sea / Sunless Skies) franchise is although I doubt it would be the same, mores a pity. Fallen London is such a mad premise it shocks me it hasn't gotten it's own TV series.
The gameplay was QTE heavy Gears of War cover shooting. There was a massive wave of cover shooters in the PS3 era and a similarly heavy push for QTEs. And... I would give Infamous 2 (2011) and God of War 3 (2010) the credit for likely reaching the peak of what QTEs can do narratively. And while they were contemporaries of Uncharted (07-11), so were games like Gears of War, Kane & Lynch (eww), and so forth. Also, Freedom Fighters (actually good) was 2003 and while I don't think it had snap cover, it was very much in that vein.
The other two big things I will give Uncharted is the focus on climbing (which Ubi had been doing since PoP: Sands of Time in 2003) and overall "plays like a movie" that was a similar push throughout the industry with ties back to System Shock 2 (1999), Half-Life 1 (1998... somehow), Call of Duty 1 (2003), and... you know, the entirety of the FMV Adventure genre.
Also... it is literally Dude Raider. Uhm... the concept of that. Since I am now pretty sure that was the title of a porno.
Uncharted was GOOD but far from "groundbreaking" once you get outside of the PS3. And, even within the PS3, 2 and 3 were very much iterations and evolutions of the original formula.
Which is why I get back to The Last of Us largely being their big, some might say only, example of something so big that it transcended console borders.
Just because it makes me giggle. I mostly dipped out of console gaming from the mid PS2 to the late PS3. But my sister had a PS3 because she needed a blu ray player. And I remember swinging by her place to help her out with something and trying out Uncharted 2. And getting IMMENSELY stuck at the start of the museum (?) heist because I kept thinking I needed to jump off a hold or do something timed rather than just following the yellow brick road. Because I had been playing the Prince of Persia games and was used to jumping puzzles rather than jumping sequences.
Came back a year or three later and had a blast. But definitely remember thinking "Why the fuck did Naughty Dog waste time on this trash when they could have made more Jak and Daxter?"
It’s hard to have a proper conversation about this topic due to all the heavy emotions and toxicity it brings out, but I do think they missed the mark on TLOU2.
I think they definitely anticipated it to be a bigger and more universal hit - the last sales number I heard was 10 mil after a few years, which is half of big PS hits, including their former flagship games (and the game was heavily discoundted after the first few months, bringing in less money than those quickly selling at full price).
The show probably caused a sales boost mostly for the 1st game and it’s remake. Now I assume they will do the same with the 2nd season of the show and the TLOU2 remake.
Still, these are all products building on existing creative content - where is the next step, what new thing(s) are they working on? I loved almost all their games, but I’m not going to spend money on the remakes of games I already played a few years ago.
It seems like now would be a good time for Crash Bash to be revived. Or anything Crash Bandicoot. Does ND still have the license for Crash? I'm drawing a blank.
Edit: they don't. RIP. I'm unsure how that works after looking it up with all those studios.
Jak and Daxter is still theirs.
That would be a good one. If it was like 2 or 3.
I'd say they're doing a run of Uncharted remasters, they could do with some texture upgrades.
Maybe they should start off by figuring out how to actually make a good game
They consistently put out well written, story driven, compelling narrative games. Unless they need the money to stay open, they can take their time doing what they like.
Lmao good way of saying you have shit taste
The last of us got turned into a tv show. A very successful tv show. That stayed mostly canon to the game.
Thats a damn successful and well written video game.
Don’t take what PrincessEli says too seriously. One quick look at their profile shows you they only have consistent garbage opinions.
Reminds of that reddit meme of a guy realizing he has been discussing the taste of Italian food with someone who drank their own piss.
Seems you must have looked at your own profile by mistake
I think the point of contention is the "consistently" part to which I disagree.
Just because you can sucker a bunch of rubes with no taste into buying something, it doesn't make it good. McDonald's will never be fine dining, no matter how many billions of sludge burgers they sell
Oh, I get it.
Naughty dog refused to hire you, huh
Man you play League of Legends, pot calling the kettle black much?
I'm not one of you fags out here pretending it's the best shit in the universe and should be above criticism.
Your life must be so empty and depressing if this is how you are spending it.
Anyone noticed a rise in troll accounts lately?
If Sony was worried about that, they shouldn't have forced them to work on a multiplayer GAAS instead of what they do best.
Making platformers in the 90s and 2000s?
Heaping out borderline shovel ware trash?
I've heard TLOU called many things, but shovelware is a new one.
It played like utter shit, and the story was just some c tier Netflix special garbage. Funny though how all the people who defend naughty dog just jump back to a single game released over a decade ago on ps3, and literally never anything else. Niel druckmann was right about one thing, and it's that he doesn't make fun games.
I don't play AAA games (and haven't played an ND game since Jak 3) so I don't have a horse in the Naughty Dog race, but Druckmann's take on "fun" was a valid one. A work of art can be engaging and emotionally impactful even if it isn't "fun", and sometimes evaluating a game based on whether testers are, in their own opinion, "having fun" is counterproductive. Is Papers, Please fun? Is Kentucky Route Zero? Is To The Moon? Hell, what would a tester say if you asked them if they were having fun after spending an hour with Disco Elysium?
Either way, you can hate the game and its plot, but to call TLOU2 shovelware is genuinely deranged. When's the last time you played an actual shovelware release?
Nah. The opposite of a fun game is a boring, frustrating, and uninteresting one. I'm glad you brought it up, because Papers please is a perfect example of a game that isn't just neon colors and Mario kart style light hearted action, but is absolutely still a fun game. The gameplay is satisfying, flows well, and does a good job at integrating into what the game is trying to convey.
And to that end, naughty dog absolutely nailed making sure their games aren't fun. I'm solidly with Reggie on this one. "If it's not fun, why bother"
Wild you can tell what side of gamer gate people were on by how toxic they are in this thread.
These type of news are pointless. Tomorrow a trailer could be released about their obvious new game that they are working on and people will forget about this. Give them time to work on the game. It's hypocritical that later we complain when companies release a unfinished product.
After cancelling the TLOU: Online game, and no more games to remaster, ND is looking pretty stale right now
Nah they could remaster Way of the Warrior for the 3DO
They must be up to something. They have the pedigree to deliver a new IP franchise and for all anyone knows that is what they're doing.
Do they?
Ignoring staff churn for a moment (that comes later): Crash Bandicoot was very much a "this also exists" on one of the most popular consoles of all time. Jak and Daxter was... also a "this also exists" on what is arguably the most popular console of all time depending on your time adjusted metrics. And Uncharted was "Wait, Tomb Raider can actually be fun to play? Holy shit" on the blu ray player everyone bought. And I want to say basically everyone (barring the chuds) universally acknowledged the new Tomb Raiders were "Uncharted but a lot better" AND wore out their welcome by the second game in the trilogy...
The Last of Us was really their first "big IP" that transcended console "fanboyism". In large part because it was two or three generations beyond the "cinematic cutscenes" that every studio was pushing for coupled with tapping into the "sad dad" zeitgeist while sort of kind of having an LGBTQ+ deuteragonist for the five people who bothered to play the DLC. And... there are a lot of reasons people got REALLY angry about the sequel...
So... back to staff churn. I am too lazy to verify so take this with a massive grain of salt, but I want to say ND were one of the more egregious studios with respect to abusing contractors and dicking over anyone who left during the years of crunch with regard to the credits? I want to say Schreier touched on it but it never gained a lot of traction because ND are the mascots of Sony. Similarly, I have not followed the various layoffs and migrations up until the last burst.
But... the last few years are pretty representative of other studios (Visceral? The Dead Space devs. They come to mind) that "lucked into" a major IP and didn't have the management necessary to repeat it. Lots of meandering, likely internally scrapped or restarted projects, and something like 3 years of "Yo, we are going to add multiplayer some day". With the various TLOU remasters a way to train up new staff to understand the tools.
Because the people who did the amazing tech wizardry that put the PS3 on a milking table and edged it into a giant gooey mess? The people who wrote and workshopped the dialogue and set pieces we love while not being high up enough to get a "director" credit? They moved on (willingly or not...). That is just the nature of the industry*. The Naughty Dog that made Jak and Daxter or Uncharted or even The Last of Us is not the Naughty Dog of today.
Oh, and there was an Uncharted game that may have been even more ignored than Jak X? And which may have had black face? I can't tell if that was a joke or not because I never got around to it.
I hope that ND have something up their sleeves because, as much as I point out the reality of their past IPs... I fucking loved all of them (and if TLOU2 were maybe half as long I would have loved that too...). Hell, I tend to piss off my friends every "gaming night" because I put all cart racing games in the context of CTR. But this all reeks of internal issues and I am not holding my breath for the inevitable "and coming soon from Naughty Dog. This new IP. We'll have more details next year" announcement.
*: Fun story. I went to Tennocon (the Warframe convention) this past year and went to the panel on writing. And I was genuinely gobsmacked to realize one of the writers on Warframe (Cam Rogers) had worked with Remedy on Quantum Break. And I chatted with him a bit after the panel and it all suddenly clicked together when he talked about having worked on some of the best (some might say only good parts...) of QB. And that lines up with the parts he "takes credit" on for Warframe. Because big names are important for the overall product, but it is the "grunts" who actually make those moments that stick with us.
Every single Uncharted was groundbreaking for its time. Not just the narrative, but the gameplay and the technology itself. They delivered again for The Last of Us and sequel. So two A-grade franchises under their belt.
Doesn't mean they'll have another hit but it stands to reason they're not sat on their asses doing nothing right now. They're either working on a TLOU spinoff or a new franchise or both. Now I'm not privy to what they're up to but I'm sure if you google "Naughty Dog rumors" you might pick up some hints. e.g. one rumour suggests a game codenamed Paradox whose description sounds oddly close to what the Fallen London (Sunless Sea / Sunless Skies) franchise is although I doubt it would be the same, mores a pity. Fallen London is such a mad premise it shocks me it hasn't gotten it's own TV series.
The gameplay was QTE heavy Gears of War cover shooting. There was a massive wave of cover shooters in the PS3 era and a similarly heavy push for QTEs. And... I would give Infamous 2 (2011) and God of War 3 (2010) the credit for likely reaching the peak of what QTEs can do narratively. And while they were contemporaries of Uncharted (07-11), so were games like Gears of War, Kane & Lynch (eww), and so forth. Also, Freedom Fighters (actually good) was 2003 and while I don't think it had snap cover, it was very much in that vein.
The other two big things I will give Uncharted is the focus on climbing (which Ubi had been doing since PoP: Sands of Time in 2003) and overall "plays like a movie" that was a similar push throughout the industry with ties back to System Shock 2 (1999), Half-Life 1 (1998... somehow), Call of Duty 1 (2003), and... you know, the entirety of the FMV Adventure genre.
Also... it is literally Dude Raider. Uhm... the concept of that. Since I am now pretty sure that was the title of a porno.
Uncharted was GOOD but far from "groundbreaking" once you get outside of the PS3. And, even within the PS3, 2 and 3 were very much iterations and evolutions of the original formula.
Which is why I get back to The Last of Us largely being their big, some might say only, example of something so big that it transcended console borders.
Just because it makes me giggle. I mostly dipped out of console gaming from the mid PS2 to the late PS3. But my sister had a PS3 because she needed a blu ray player. And I remember swinging by her place to help her out with something and trying out Uncharted 2. And getting IMMENSELY stuck at the start of the museum (?) heist because I kept thinking I needed to jump off a hold or do something timed rather than just following the yellow brick road. Because I had been playing the Prince of Persia games and was used to jumping puzzles rather than jumping sequences.
Came back a year or three later and had a blast. But definitely remember thinking "Why the fuck did Naughty Dog waste time on this trash when they could have made more Jak and Daxter?"
It’s hard to have a proper conversation about this topic due to all the heavy emotions and toxicity it brings out, but I do think they missed the mark on TLOU2.
I think they definitely anticipated it to be a bigger and more universal hit - the last sales number I heard was 10 mil after a few years, which is half of big PS hits, including their former flagship games (and the game was heavily discoundted after the first few months, bringing in less money than those quickly selling at full price).
The show probably caused a sales boost mostly for the 1st game and it’s remake. Now I assume they will do the same with the 2nd season of the show and the TLOU2 remake.
Still, these are all products building on existing creative content - where is the next step, what new thing(s) are they working on? I loved almost all their games, but I’m not going to spend money on the remakes of games I already played a few years ago.
It seems like now would be a good time for Crash Bash to be revived. Or anything Crash Bandicoot. Does ND still have the license for Crash? I'm drawing a blank.
Edit: they don't. RIP. I'm unsure how that works after looking it up with all those studios.
Jak and Daxter is still theirs.
That would be a good one. If it was like 2 or 3.
I'd say they're doing a run of Uncharted remasters, they could do with some texture upgrades.
Maybe they should start off by figuring out how to actually make a good game