But journalists from Sky News reviewed the so-called dossier and reported “The Israeli intelligence documents make several claims that Sky News has not seen proof of and many of the claims, even if true, do not directly implicate UNRWA.”
Britain’s Channel 4 also obtained the document and determined it “provides no evidence to support its explosive new claim that UNRWA staff were involved with terror attacks on Israel.” The Financial Times, which also reviewed the materials, reported there were specific allegations of direct participation in the October 7 attacks against four Palestinians employed by UNRWA, not 12 as originally asserted.
This was a transparent attempt by Israel to distract from the rulings in the ICJ genocide case and to obliterate a U.N. agency that Israel has long viewed as an impediment to its goal of denying Palestinians the right to return to the homes and territory from which Israel expelled them
The israeli “evidence” has been leaked and confirmed fake
Are the quotes you provided supposed to support the "confirmed fake" part of your comment?
Because "has not seen proof" and "provides no evidence" do not equate to "confirmed fake".
The number of very online people who think countries share their intelligence with every Channel 4 news who asks is a little surprising.
No the evidence is fake. Evidence means that you can proof something happened which israel clearly can't.
That’s bold considering all the things people on this site were so sure about only to be proven wrong weeks later.
For me, I’ll wait for the investigation to finish.
The "evidence" was already leaked and contained no proof whatsoever. Waiting must be convenient. Are we going to see the Hamas base under the hospital soon?
And it turned out israel lied almost every single time about almost everything.
But there is a problem with the gut-wrenching narratives that have bolstered the underlying justification for the slaughter of Gaza: They are either complete fabrications or have not been substantiated with a shred of evidence. Many have been thoroughly disproven by major Israeli media outlets.
Reporters on the closely escorted trip entered a shaft next to a school on the periphery of the U.N. compound, descending to the concrete-lined tunnel. Twenty minutes of walking through the stifling hot, narrow and occasionally winding passage brought them underneath UNRWA Headquarters, an army lieutenant-colonel leading the tour said.
So, yeah. I think I’ll wait for the investigation to conclude.
No need there is proof the IDF lies about all tunnels and where they go.
I guess we’ll ignore the fact that the story I linked has journalists being walked through one. Y’know, everything CNN was asking for there and more.
If you watch the video I linked, which you didn't, they told CNN that they walked underneath the graveyard which was a proven lie.
The IDF lies. If they can't even show their evidence on video after securing the area it's extremely obvious there was zero truth to their claim.
The evidence provided by Israel alleging that roughly a dozen UNRWA staffers participated in Hamas’s October 7 terror onslaught is “highly credible,” US Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Monday, as media outlets published additional details on the implicated employees, including photos from an Israeli dossier.
“We haven’t had the ability to investigate [the allegations] ourselves. But they are highly, highly credible,” Blinken said during a press conference
Until the information is verified by neutral third parties, this gives me some WMDs in Iraq vibes.
Both Israel and the US have a history of lying to justify war crimes and crimes against humanity.
I used to have faith that bad people will eventually pay for their crimes. That the weight of their sins will crush them eventually. But these past decades have taught me that the new response to crushing weight of sin is to simply get a stronger spine.
Otoh, Blinken and Biden have parroted everything the IDF feeds them until independent journalists debunk it.
So we've cut funding without conducting any investigation. Great.
Remember the beheaded babies?
“We haven’t had the ability to investigate [the allegations] ourselves. But they are highly, highly credible,” Blinken said during a press conference
This sounds like something The Onion would have written.
Well, she's changed a lot after her 16th birthday:
The nose doesn't look extremely weird anymore.
Wow, such a massive change.
Omg, I thought Princess Leia would be more tolerant.
Really disappointed
I feel like this is a little too accurate for shitpost. I don't know the proper sub for it, but it's pretty true.
@snek@lemmy.world Maybe you could Crosspost this to !politicalmemes@lemmy.ca if you're on mobile and don't have crosspost button just make a new post using the same link as this post https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/20e095d5-b044-4e69-b1d7-486f63ac3037.png and it'll count as a crosspost. So long as it's the same link.
Feel free to do it yourself
Do you think they'd accept it on memes?
"Bad faith arguments" is not a reason to flag people in Lemmy Shitpost. Please do not abuse the flagging system again.
Then what good is your moderation? The whole fucking point of having you around is TO police bad faith arguing. That's what mods are FOR.
Mods are for enforcing community rules. This is a shitpost community, not a debate community. The rules are very clear on the sidebar and 'bad faith arguments' is not one of them.
Feel free to find a different community if you want to report 'bad faith arguments' multiple times. If you do it here, I'm going to tell you to stop before I act. Because I prefer give warnings.
And you can't enforce ANY rule without protecting your people against bad faith arguing. It's a foundation of ALL communities, whether explicitly written in its guidelines or not, because meaningful debate is the foundation of ALL human interaction and is primarily what abuse and harassment is.
The needs of your people are more important than your laziness, selfishness, and unwillingness to do your job. Don't like it? Step the fuck down. You go find a different community to play king over if you don't like it.
Okay, I think you need to take a break. We'll see you in a week. I wouldn't advise telling another mod to 'step the fuck down.' They might be less lenient.
I wouldn't advise telling another mod to 'step the fuck down.'
"Dont tell people abusing their power that they are abusing their power or they might abuse their power"
Yeah you should probably step down if that is your opinion...
Your feelings are noted. If you don't wish to join them, you will let the subject drop.
This is Lemmy Shitpost. You are allowed to have as many bad faith arguments as you want. If you keep flagging people for it, you'll be asked, politely, to stop. Which is what happened.
I'm sorry that you both find this so ridiculously unreasonable. What's interesting is that the person I asked to stop did not.
This subject is no longer up for discussion.
The population should have handed over the evil Jedi to the Sith. The children in Alderaan were all complicit.
The weapons embargo in Alderaan prevented those people from handing over the Jedi. The Empire itself maintains that embargo! What were the people of Alderaan to do?
The Empire has a right to defend itself
But does she condemn Hamas??
This is some brilliantly spicy stuff, OP. Well done, I love it!
I hear at least one of the Jedi was a Sith, good thing they were defunded. Now if we could only defund all the conspiracy theorists about the emperor being a Sith as well.
Han fired first
Maclunkey
"If you hate the death star so much, why don't you go live on Alderaan?"
While the real life situation this is based off is quite sad and upsetting...
This is hilarious beyond belief.
Real shitpost!
that sweet copium around here, even on lemmy, that's so sweet
Oh good I was really thinking my shit posting community needed more agenda posts
What kind of pretentious loser names an opinion blog site after himself, and bestows a ".org" at the end
The more I read this crap the more obvious it is this bullshit article relies on lengthy annoying paragraphs that no one wants to read and a ".org" at the end to sound more official
Myth #1: Israel is guilty of “genocide” in Gaza.
The term “genocide” has a clear meaning—it’s the destruction or attempted destruction of a whole people.
Yes , 95% of people starving in the world were in Gaza when Israel chose to withhold aid to them. That is the attempted destruction of a whole people
Myth #2: International Humanitarian Law Requires that Israel’s response to Palestinian aggression be “proportional.”
I'm as anti Israel as it gets, and I've never heard this argument that you're legally bound to proportional, sounds like this author really likes the title of the blog counting up to 5.
Myth #3: The Jews Are Colonizers and the Palestinians are Indigenous People.
Not the Jews, but, the Israelis are colonizers. Biblically they were a nomadic war faring tribe. They never were a country. The west created a colony to project power in the middle east because they had no other allies there. Israel is a country in a region called Palestine. Palestinians never formed a government that resembled something the west could do business with
In colonialism, the colony has superior technology. The middle east just industrialized, how the hell could Palestinians have been anything but natives the last few thousand years
Myth #4: The atrocities committed by Hamas (and over one thousand Palestinian civilians) on October 7th were a legitimate response to oppression.
Israel left Gaza in 2005—forcibly removing thousands of its own citizens—and billions of dollars in international aid have since been spent there. So the “oppression” of the Palestinians in Gaza—by Israel—is at least debatable.
This is so fucking stupid I'm just going to leave this here.
"Oppression" lmao, why the air quotes? Being born in a ghetto doesn't count as being oppressed?
Myth #5: The two sides in this conflict are equally civilized, equally entitled to respect, and equally worth protecting.
I actually agree with this. You can't compare violence between two groups when one group (Israel) is occupying the other (Palestine). The violence from Palestinians against Israel is like violence from black people to the police. It's not good, but it's not the same. One group is oppressed and radicalized from that, the other group is systematically oppressing the other
Myth #1: Israel is guilty of “genocide” in Gaza.
The term “genocide” has a clear meaning—it’s the destruction or attempted destruction of a whole people.
Yes , 95% of people starving in the world were in Gaza when Israel chose to withhold aid to them. That is the attempted destruction of a whole people
Not sure why you are debating semantics here, as that statement is just straight up wrong, which can be easily confirmed by taking a single look at article 2 of the Genocide Convention (emphasis mine):
In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such
Speaking of the genocide convention, let's see what experts on the subject are saying about it:
The book is too detailed to summarize each chapter on a comment, but it's not too difficult to find independent sources to verify each of them
Both Israel and Hamas have blood on their hands. I know we all like the whole Good vs. Bad but in an eye for eye situation, they are both wrong.
People, on both sides, suffer. If the politicians would fight on the front, they would be less eager to create these situations.
Edit:
I am not defending the Israeli Actions nor the Hamas actions. It is fucked up situation.
Israel in the first place, shouldn't have been created. However it is, and they should make the best of it.
WITHOUT COMMITTING GENOCIDE.
For people who believe in a good God, they sure are willing to kill.
All I am saying is that the ones that are not fighting, are suffering.
Rockets land in Gaza, Rockets land in Israel. People, yes on both sides, are dying.
I am against the actions of Hamas, I am very against the actions of Israel.
Israel is not fighting against Hamas. Israel is fighting against all Palestinians, of which only a tiny fraction is Hamas. Well or rather they are fightinf against Hamas, but they are slaughtering the other Palestinians.
Israel is past the need to defend itself. Now they are taking the opportunity to commit genocide and displace the Palestinians from Gaza.
That's like blaming Jews during world war 2 for putting up resistance against their fascist rulers. It is such a mischaracterization of the situation that it is damaging to the Palestinian people.
I'm sorry, but whose currently suffering on the Israeli side? Because Gaza is literally starving. And the Aid trucks are idling at the border with food that the IDF refuses to let through.
Possibly the families of some of the people killed by Hamas. I bet they’re suffering.
Yeah I bet their friends are doing things like bringing them food to help and their jobs are giving them extra time off or something.
Yes, that is generally part of grieving.
Both of which are things the families of 27,000 Gazans cannot do right now. They have no jobs, no food, and there's a good chance their friends are dead too.
The calculus changes when everything from ambulances to children could be actual, literal bombs.
Edit: oh and, Israel isn’t the only country that borders Gaza.
The calculus changes when everything from ambulances to children could be actual, literal bombs.
That's a really weird way to say, "I'll kill any Palestinian that moves, even the cattle, because I can't even bother viewing them as human beings".
Would it be acceptable if someone shot an Israeli ambulance, saying, "well, you never know these days, these ambulances are full of IDF ready to attack!"?
Nope, and neither should the opposite.
Nope. No you don't get to go down that road. We dealt with that uncertainty in Iraq without causing a massive famine or using 2,000 pound bombs. There are no excuses for genocide, and certainly not victim blaming.
It sounds like you’re saying if Jihadists use ambulances and children then there’s no defense. Just lay down and die.
Sounds like you're trying to lump every person in Gaza in with Hamas. Professional soldiers have procedures for those situations. Ones Israel isn't using.
I’m not.
I’m very clearly saying that when you’re fighting a group who straps bombs to kids, you have to consider that even those appearing to be regular civilians might be a threat.
Oh but you are. Because we've done this. We know how to deal with those problems without committing a genocide. The only reason to answer charges of genocide with , "but the kids might have weapons!" Is to blame the victims.
Yeah an eye for an eye if you're a barbarian. 30 eyes for each 1 is... something else.
BRB, on my way to withdraw all funding for an UN agency with 30.000 employees because 12 of them have been denounced by Israel.
Have they provided any proof yet?
The israeli "evidence" has been leaked and confirmed fake
Are the quotes you provided supposed to support the "confirmed fake" part of your comment?
Because "has not seen proof" and "provides no evidence" do not equate to "confirmed fake".
The number of very online people who think countries share their intelligence with every Channel 4 news who asks is a little surprising.
No the evidence is fake. Evidence means that you can proof something happened which israel clearly can't.
That’s bold considering all the things people on this site were so sure about only to be proven wrong weeks later.
For me, I’ll wait for the investigation to finish.
The "evidence" was already leaked and contained no proof whatsoever. Waiting must be convenient. Are we going to see the Hamas base under the hospital soon?
And it turned out israel lied almost every single time about almost everything.
Let's not forget
Hamas had command tunnel under U.N. Gaza headquarters, Israeli military says
So, yeah. I think I’ll wait for the investigation to conclude.
No need there is proof the IDF lies about all tunnels and where they go.
https://youtu.be/34CxzZtVxnE?t=3m18s
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
https://piped.video/34CxzZtVxnE
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
I guess we’ll ignore the fact that the story I linked has journalists being walked through one. Y’know, everything CNN was asking for there and more.
If you watch the video I linked, which you didn't, they told CNN that they walked underneath the graveyard which was a proven lie.
The IDF lies. If they can't even show their evidence on video after securing the area it's extremely obvious there was zero truth to their claim.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/blinken-says-evidence-of-unrwa-staffers-oct-7-involvement-highly-highly-credible/
Until the information is verified by neutral third parties, this gives me some WMDs in Iraq vibes.
Both Israel and the US have a history of lying to justify war crimes and crimes against humanity.
I used to have faith that bad people will eventually pay for their crimes. That the weight of their sins will crush them eventually. But these past decades have taught me that the new response to crushing weight of sin is to simply get a stronger spine.
Otoh, Blinken and Biden have parroted everything the IDF feeds them until independent journalists debunk it.
So we've cut funding without conducting any investigation. Great.
Remember the beheaded babies?
This sounds like something The Onion would have written.
Well, she's changed a lot after her 16th birthday:
The nose doesn't look extremely weird anymore.
Wow, such a massive change.
Omg, I thought Princess Leia would be more tolerant.
Really disappointed
I feel like this is a little too accurate for shitpost. I don't know the proper sub for it, but it's pretty true.
@snek@lemmy.world Maybe you could Crosspost this to !politicalmemes@lemmy.ca if you're on mobile and don't have crosspost button just make a new post using the same link as this post
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/20e095d5-b044-4e69-b1d7-486f63ac3037.pngand it'll count as a crosspost. So long as it's the same link.Feel free to do it yourself
Do you think they'd accept it on memes?
"Bad faith arguments" is not a reason to flag people in Lemmy Shitpost. Please do not abuse the flagging system again.
Then what good is your moderation? The whole fucking point of having you around is TO police bad faith arguing. That's what mods are FOR.
Mods are for enforcing community rules. This is a shitpost community, not a debate community. The rules are very clear on the sidebar and 'bad faith arguments' is not one of them.
Feel free to find a different community if you want to report 'bad faith arguments' multiple times. If you do it here, I'm going to tell you to stop before I act. Because I prefer give warnings.
And you can't enforce ANY rule without protecting your people against bad faith arguing. It's a foundation of ALL communities, whether explicitly written in its guidelines or not, because meaningful debate is the foundation of ALL human interaction and is primarily what abuse and harassment is.
The needs of your people are more important than your laziness, selfishness, and unwillingness to do your job. Don't like it? Step the fuck down. You go find a different community to play king over if you don't like it.
Okay, I think you need to take a break. We'll see you in a week. I wouldn't advise telling another mod to 'step the fuck down.' They might be less lenient.
"Dont tell people abusing their power that they are abusing their power or they might abuse their power"
Yeah you should probably step down if that is your opinion...
Your feelings are noted. If you don't wish to join them, you will let the subject drop.
This is Lemmy Shitpost. You are allowed to have as many bad faith arguments as you want. If you keep flagging people for it, you'll be asked, politely, to stop. Which is what happened.
I'm sorry that you both find this so ridiculously unreasonable. What's interesting is that the person I asked to stop did not.
This subject is no longer up for discussion.
The population should have handed over the evil Jedi to the Sith. The children in Alderaan were all complicit.
The weapons embargo in Alderaan prevented those people from handing over the Jedi. The Empire itself maintains that embargo! What were the people of Alderaan to do?
The Empire has a right to defend itself
But does she condemn Hamas??
This is some brilliantly spicy stuff, OP. Well done, I love it!
I hear at least one of the Jedi was a Sith, good thing they were defunded. Now if we could only defund all the conspiracy theorists about the emperor being a Sith as well.
Han fired first
Maclunkey
"If you hate the death star so much, why don't you go live on Alderaan?"
While the real life situation this is based off is quite sad and upsetting...
This is hilarious beyond belief.
Real shitpost!
that sweet copium around here, even on lemmy, that's so sweet
Oh good I was really thinking my shit posting community needed more agenda posts
https://www.samharris.org/blog/5-myths-about-israel-and-the-war-in-gaza
Lol samharris.org
What kind of pretentious loser names an opinion blog site after himself, and bestows a ".org" at the end
The more I read this crap the more obvious it is this bullshit article relies on lengthy annoying paragraphs that no one wants to read and a ".org" at the end to sound more official
Yes , 95% of people starving in the world were in Gaza when Israel chose to withhold aid to them. That is the attempted destruction of a whole people
I'm as anti Israel as it gets, and I've never heard this argument that you're legally bound to proportional, sounds like this author really likes the title of the blog counting up to 5.
That said, there are tons of MORAL arguments against disproportionately killing civilians, but the only legal one that comes to mind is when Israel evacuated Gazans to a region in the south, then bombed that region with white phosphorus https://www.cbsnews.com/news/israel-hamas-war-white-phosphorous-gaza-palestinians-amnesty-hrw-reports/
Not the Jews, but, the Israelis are colonizers. Biblically they were a nomadic war faring tribe. They never were a country. The west created a colony to project power in the middle east because they had no other allies there. Israel is a country in a region called Palestine. Palestinians never formed a government that resembled something the west could do business with
In colonialism, the colony has superior technology. The middle east just industrialized, how the hell could Palestinians have been anything but natives the last few thousand years
This is so fucking stupid I'm just going to leave this here. "Oppression" lmao, why the air quotes? Being born in a ghetto doesn't count as being oppressed?
I actually agree with this. You can't compare violence between two groups when one group (Israel) is occupying the other (Palestine). The violence from Palestinians against Israel is like violence from black people to the police. It's not good, but it's not the same. One group is oppressed and radicalized from that, the other group is systematically oppressing the other
Not sure why you are debating semantics here, as that statement is just straight up wrong, which can be easily confirmed by taking a single look at article 2 of the Genocide Convention (emphasis mine):
Speaking of the genocide convention, let's see what experts on the subject are saying about it:
ICJ Ruling archived here
Experts on Genocide at US Court on the issue
800+ Legal Scholars on International Law and Genocide on whether it amounts to genocide
5 more experts on the subject
Law for Palestine Releases Database with 500+ Instances of Israeli Incitement to Genocide
--
GDF has a pretty good video on it imo
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
GDF has a pretty good video on it imo
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Here are 10 Myths of Israel (archived) by Ilan Pappe
Palestine was an empty land
The Jews were a people without a land
Zionism is Judaism
Zionism is not colonialism
The Palestinians voluntarily left their homeland in 1948
The June 1967 War was a war of "no choice".
Israel is the only Democracy in the Middle East
The Oslo Mythologies
The Gaza Mythologies
The Two-State Solution is the only way forward
This article, Examining the 10 Myths of Israel is a shorter version of the main points
The book is too detailed to summarize each chapter on a comment, but it's not too difficult to find independent sources to verify each of them
Both Israel and Hamas have blood on their hands. I know we all like the whole Good vs. Bad but in an eye for eye situation, they are both wrong. People, on both sides, suffer. If the politicians would fight on the front, they would be less eager to create these situations.
Edit: I am not defending the Israeli Actions nor the Hamas actions. It is fucked up situation. Israel in the first place, shouldn't have been created. However it is, and they should make the best of it. WITHOUT COMMITTING GENOCIDE. For people who believe in a good God, they sure are willing to kill.
All I am saying is that the ones that are not fighting, are suffering. Rockets land in Gaza, Rockets land in Israel. People, yes on both sides, are dying.
I am against the actions of Hamas, I am very against the actions of Israel.
Israel is not fighting against Hamas. Israel is fighting against all Palestinians, of which only a tiny fraction is Hamas. Well or rather they are fightinf against Hamas, but they are slaughtering the other Palestinians.
Israel is past the need to defend itself. Now they are taking the opportunity to commit genocide and displace the Palestinians from Gaza.
That's like blaming Jews during world war 2 for putting up resistance against their fascist rulers. It is such a mischaracterization of the situation that it is damaging to the Palestinian people.
I'm sorry, but whose currently suffering on the Israeli side? Because Gaza is literally starving. And the Aid trucks are idling at the border with food that the IDF refuses to let through.
Possibly the families of some of the people killed by Hamas. I bet they’re suffering.
Yeah I bet their friends are doing things like bringing them food to help and their jobs are giving them extra time off or something.
Yes, that is generally part of grieving.
Both of which are things the families of 27,000 Gazans cannot do right now. They have no jobs, no food, and there's a good chance their friends are dead too.
The calculus changes when everything from ambulances to children could be actual, literal bombs.
Edit: oh and, Israel isn’t the only country that borders Gaza.
That's a really weird way to say, "I'll kill any Palestinian that moves, even the cattle, because I can't even bother viewing them as human beings".
Would it be acceptable if someone shot an Israeli ambulance, saying, "well, you never know these days, these ambulances are full of IDF ready to attack!"?
Nope, and neither should the opposite.
Nope. No you don't get to go down that road. We dealt with that uncertainty in Iraq without causing a massive famine or using 2,000 pound bombs. There are no excuses for genocide, and certainly not victim blaming.
It sounds like you’re saying if Jihadists use ambulances and children then there’s no defense. Just lay down and die.
Sounds like you're trying to lump every person in Gaza in with Hamas. Professional soldiers have procedures for those situations. Ones Israel isn't using.
I’m not.
I’m very clearly saying that when you’re fighting a group who straps bombs to kids, you have to consider that even those appearing to be regular civilians might be a threat.
Oh but you are. Because we've done this. We know how to deal with those problems without committing a genocide. The only reason to answer charges of genocide with , "but the kids might have weapons!" Is to blame the victims.
Yeah an eye for an eye if you're a barbarian. 30 eyes for each 1 is... something else.
And it's not like the fascist Israeli settlers didn't start their share of murder before Okt.7: Israel Escalates Genocidal Violence Against Palestinians In The West Bank - YouTube TMR Jul.8th 2023
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Israel Escalates Genocidal Violence Against Palestinians In The West Bank - YouTube TMR Jul.8th 2023
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I'm open-source; check me out at GitHub.