The question is when the US government is going to take any measures against them.
Apple is not that strong in the EU but I think in the US it controls more than 50% of the market and your authorities are simply closing their eyes in front of their anti competitive practices.
Our anti-competitive practitioners are buying judges as well as new laws.
Well, there was recently a judgement on both Apple and Google anticompetitive practices having to do with app stores. Somehow apple won theirs, despite their apps being completely locked to their store while Google lost theirs despite always having supported side loading apps and other app stores already existing. The US legal system is a joke.
“More recently, you have described our DMA compliance as ‘hot garbage,’ a ‘horror show,’ and a ‘devious new instance of Malicious Compliance.’ And you have complained about what you called ‘Junk Fees’ and ‘Apple taxes.”
I’m sorry, but this exchange is just plain hilarious to me. 🤣 It reads like a recording between a couple going through an acrimonious divorce.
I don't particularly care for Epic, but this is some gatekeeping bullshit from Apple.
Same old...
I don't even care. All the kids crying for an iPhone so their texts show up the "right" color don't deserve to play fortnite. Iphone gained such a large market share that there's very little higher end competition left amongst android phones. If the market weren't so lopsided, maybe we'd get options beside a Samsung s line or an Asus rog. I don't want to give up my micro sd card slot or battery access.
Apple just isn't good at playing this "control an entire industry" game as its contemporaries like Microsoft.
It's "embrace, extend, extinguish". But apples play seems to be more like the five stages of grief.
denial, the eu won't ever force us to do a thing, we're Apple! They wouldn't.
anger, <- we are here
barginning
depression
acceptance.
They'll never reach acceptance. Maybe court-ordered compliance, but never true acceptance.
The court rulings better cover every way Apple could avoid compliance.
Maybe a lawyer could tear this apart and find loopholes, but the law should be so simple as to say:
"A company providing mobile computing services and products, being hardware, software, or networking, shall allow under all circumstances and without restriction, the installation and usage of applications from all sources."
But of course, I'm not a Lawyer, so there's probably a loophole to be found in that.
I love seeing these two assholes fight.
I think this is good though. Another data point of Apple not allowing true competition on their platform. Oh, you want your own app store? BAM! You're banned. Especially now that it seemed Epic was gonna comply with this last set of ridiculous rules.
We might get a proper way to sideload if they keep this up. We'll see...
The EU has already told Apple they have to allow side loading of apps. Probably won't help anyone in the United States but maybe you can get California on it, as they seem to like copying EU law.
I think it's only third party appstores for now. That's why I'm hoping this will encourage stricter regulation
I wish them both the worst of luck.
Didn't Epic just win an anticompetitive lawsuit against Google, off the back of losing a similar anticompetitive lawsuit against Apple?
Methinks they'll be coming back for round 2, and this will be the provocation that will give Epic a win. Regardless of your thoughts and feelings on Epic, I think we can agree that Apple is a shitty company and they could do with an L.
Every company you mentioned in your comment is a shitty company that could do with an L.
What’s wrong Apple? Afraid of some actual competition?
Yes. As always.
Idk, man. Epic very well could have come up with an app so bad that it became a serious vulnerability for the Apple App Store. This could be about the money. It could be about some Apple Engineers making a couple of airbooks live up to their names, trying to plug all the wholes the shitty Epic DRM was creating. Could be both.
Get out of here with this whataboutism.
As far as companies go, Apple is the one being slowly brought back under the law of a free market, after doing gray / illegal stuff for decades.
Get out of here with this whataboutism.
Epic's DRM patches routinely break games and open up security vulnerabilities. This isn't even something new, its been a problem with the company for decades.
While I definitely don't know everything about Epic Games, but my (quick) googling suggests that they do almost no DRM (or just piggy-back on steam, which is minimal DRM). The individual developers are responsible for DRM. Is this not true?
In general, iI feel it is quite a moot point regarding iOS , where Epic wouldnt need to do any DRM, because iOS is locked down to hell...
just piggy-back on steam, which is minimal DRM). The individual developers are responsible for DRM. Is this not true?
Considering Epic is a competitor of Steam and actively pulled the games from steam, this seems rather uninformed.
Just because it is a competitor, it doesnt mean it does DRM. Foremost, it is a service to deliver games to you at a price (and give you a legal proof of ownership).
I haven't used EGS in 5 or 6 years, but the whole reason I refuse to use them (aside from the timed exclusive bullshit) was no offline mode when I wanted to play subnautica. I remember being so mad that I couldn't play my game when I lost Internet that once it was back I bought it on steam and uninstalled EGS entirely.
So not sure how much of their library is actually drm free if you can't play a game without being able to contact their servers. But who knows, maybe EGS finally got around to adding basic features after all this time.
They can DRM, but they won't use the DRM that's part of the competitor's platform, specially when Epic also had their own commercial DRM. Also they develop unreal engine. All of this are easy to check facts that show how little you know about what you're talking about.
It's ok not knowing, so why to make so much effort to pretend you know what you're talking about and arguing with me up facts?
Both things can be true to be honest
But we always need to pick a side.
Anything is possible when you're not constrained by what is actually something that can really happen. For example, epic could even blow up some of Apple's headquarter campuses by uploading a bomb to the iOS app store because of all the 'wholes' in the epic drm.
This is really whole some
I love how you're so confident about this despite clearly knowing nothing about programming.
It is not possible for an app to be a threat to the entire app store because all of the code is sandboxed. Please either read up on app development or shut up
Also the app doesn't run on the app store, so it cannot affect it. The store serves the app as a package that is then downloaded and executed on the user device
I love the rending of clothes and gnashing of teeth.
If Apple really said their decision was partly based on Epic calling them out on their DMA plans then it seems it should be a pretty easy win in court. Apple would literally be meaning "if you say bad things about us we'll cancel your account." I know private companies aren't bound by the first amendment but surely that can't be legal.
I dunno. Isn’t this kind of like being banned from a sport? Nobody has a right to participate in someone else’s game.
Seems anticompetitive
"Seems" really isn't necessary. It's apple.
"threat" is just competition, right?
Fine 'em, EU!
The question is when the US government is going to take any measures against them.
Apple is not that strong in the EU but I think in the US it controls more than 50% of the market and your authorities are simply closing their eyes in front of their anti competitive practices.
Our anti-competitive practitioners are buying judges as well as new laws.
Well, there was recently a judgement on both Apple and Google anticompetitive practices having to do with app stores. Somehow apple won theirs, despite their apps being completely locked to their store while Google lost theirs despite always having supported side loading apps and other app stores already existing. The US legal system is a joke.
I’m sorry, but this exchange is just plain hilarious to me. 🤣 It reads like a recording between a couple going through an acrimonious divorce.
I don't particularly care for Epic, but this is some gatekeeping bullshit from Apple.
Same old...
I don't even care. All the kids crying for an iPhone so their texts show up the "right" color don't deserve to play fortnite. Iphone gained such a large market share that there's very little higher end competition left amongst android phones. If the market weren't so lopsided, maybe we'd get options beside a Samsung s line or an Asus rog. I don't want to give up my micro sd card slot or battery access.
Apple just isn't good at playing this "control an entire industry" game as its contemporaries like Microsoft.
It's "embrace, extend, extinguish". But apples play seems to be more like the five stages of grief.
They'll never reach acceptance. Maybe court-ordered compliance, but never true acceptance.
The court rulings better cover every way Apple could avoid compliance.
Maybe a lawyer could tear this apart and find loopholes, but the law should be so simple as to say:
"A company providing mobile computing services and products, being hardware, software, or networking, shall allow under all circumstances and without restriction, the installation and usage of applications from all sources."
But of course, I'm not a Lawyer, so there's probably a loophole to be found in that.
I love seeing these two assholes fight.
I think this is good though. Another data point of Apple not allowing true competition on their platform. Oh, you want your own app store? BAM! You're banned. Especially now that it seemed Epic was gonna comply with this last set of ridiculous rules.
We might get a proper way to sideload if they keep this up. We'll see...
The EU has already told Apple they have to allow side loading of apps. Probably won't help anyone in the United States but maybe you can get California on it, as they seem to like copying EU law.
I think it's only third party appstores for now. That's why I'm hoping this will encourage stricter regulation
I wish them both the worst of luck.
Didn't Epic just win an anticompetitive lawsuit against Google, off the back of losing a similar anticompetitive lawsuit against Apple?
Methinks they'll be coming back for round 2, and this will be the provocation that will give Epic a win. Regardless of your thoughts and feelings on Epic, I think we can agree that Apple is a shitty company and they could do with an L.
Every company you mentioned in your comment is a shitty company that could do with an L.
What’s wrong Apple? Afraid of some actual competition?
Yes. As always.
Idk, man. Epic very well could have come up with an app so bad that it became a serious vulnerability for the Apple App Store. This could be about the money. It could be about some Apple Engineers making a couple of airbooks live up to their names, trying to plug all the wholes the shitty Epic DRM was creating. Could be both.
Get out of here with this whataboutism.
As far as companies go, Apple is the one being slowly brought back under the law of a free market, after doing gray / illegal stuff for decades.
Epic's DRM patches routinely break games and open up security vulnerabilities. This isn't even something new, its been a problem with the company for decades.
While I definitely don't know everything about Epic Games, but my (quick) googling suggests that they do almost no DRM (or just piggy-back on steam, which is minimal DRM). The individual developers are responsible for DRM. Is this not true?
In general, iI feel it is quite a moot point regarding iOS , where Epic wouldnt need to do any DRM, because iOS is locked down to hell...
Considering Epic is a competitor of Steam and actively pulled the games from steam, this seems rather uninformed.
Just because it is a competitor, it doesnt mean it does DRM. Foremost, it is a service to deliver games to you at a price (and give you a legal proof of ownership).
I haven't used EGS in 5 or 6 years, but the whole reason I refuse to use them (aside from the timed exclusive bullshit) was no offline mode when I wanted to play subnautica. I remember being so mad that I couldn't play my game when I lost Internet that once it was back I bought it on steam and uninstalled EGS entirely.
So not sure how much of their library is actually drm free if you can't play a game without being able to contact their servers. But who knows, maybe EGS finally got around to adding basic features after all this time.
They can DRM, but they won't use the DRM that's part of the competitor's platform, specially when Epic also had their own commercial DRM. Also they develop unreal engine. All of this are easy to check facts that show how little you know about what you're talking about.
It's ok not knowing, so why to make so much effort to pretend you know what you're talking about and arguing with me up facts?
Both things can be true to be honest
But we always need to pick a side.
Anything is possible when you're not constrained by what is actually something that can really happen. For example, epic could even blow up some of Apple's headquarter campuses by uploading a bomb to the iOS app store because of all the 'wholes' in the epic drm.
This is really whole some
I love how you're so confident about this despite clearly knowing nothing about programming.
It is not possible for an app to be a threat to the entire app store because all of the code is sandboxed. Please either read up on app development or shut up
Also the app doesn't run on the app store, so it cannot affect it. The store serves the app as a package that is then downloaded and executed on the user device
Please eat each other.
Press release from Epic including the correspondence between Epic and Apple: https://www.epicgames.com/site/en-US/news/apple-terminated-epic-s-developer-account
I love the rending of clothes and gnashing of teeth.
If Apple really said their decision was partly based on Epic calling them out on their DMA plans then it seems it should be a pretty easy win in court. Apple would literally be meaning "if you say bad things about us we'll cancel your account." I know private companies aren't bound by the first amendment but surely that can't be legal.
I dunno. Isn’t this kind of like being banned from a sport? Nobody has a right to participate in someone else’s game.
No
EU comission just said NEIN.