It's a way to push voter id and other voter suppression tactics.
It's just life how whenever someone wants to censor media, it's to protect the children.
Vote for me, I promise to make crime illegal.
There actually are a lot of laws that allow prosecutors to stack charges.
The real question is what other things this bill will have.
At best they'll make it a fixture of the election that Democrats don't support legal elections. At worst universal voter ID, no more mail-in voting, and hassling the fuck out of anyone that doesn't "look American" or have an anglicized name.
What a great idea. Solve a problem that doesn't exist rather than all the shit crumbling around us. Heroes.
Also, given that's a non-problem, they will, in fact, never solve it. Which is exactly what they want. A "problem" they can endlessly demagogue whip up grievances about.
Democrats should agree with this, and amend the bill to indicate that all citizens should have the right to vote (ideally with it being a felony to try to prevent them from doing so). Let Trump and Johnson explain why they don't want that part of it.
Love this idea, great way to sneak in Voting Rights Act that was pretty much DOA on week 1.
Anything that puts them on the backfoot and exposes the awful Republican policies in the light of day will work extremely well!
Great idea. Maybe also add extra provisions that would give extreme punishment to those cons that were caught trying to vote more than once, as well. Call out those specific examples when it's being debated.
Anyone with a brain knows non-citizens can't vote. This is just a way to push the narrative to their dumb base that "illegals" are voting.
Or the law will be conveniently structured in such a way that once again makes it more difficult for people who are minorities or live in urban centers to vote.
In federal electionst that is true. Some cities and states allow noncitizens to vote in local things.
Interestingly, noncitizens in MN cannot vote in state or local elections.
And all the illegal voting has been found to have come from Republicans.
That's why they are so mad, They've been cheating and still lost.
Right up there with the recent Tennessee (?) legislation to outlaw chemtrails…
If that's real, I wonder if they are some of the same people that thought the 80s Satanic Panic stuff was real and so was the Comet Pizza stuff....and that The Storm is still coming, LOL.
the only place that i know of that lets non-citizens vote in NYC, and only for local elections.
their reasoning is that, if you live in NYC, you're paying taxes and, therefore, have the right to representation. you still have to register and show ID, using the city's NYC ID, which is issued for free (gasp!). (more info on NYC ID)
edit: my bad-- this law was ruled unconstitutional on appeal, after a long court battle, on 2/24/2024. boo
It is important to note that the law was determined to be unconstitutional to the NY State Constitution. This hasn't been tested if a state allowed non-citizens to vote.
That IS important!
Eh, I get it in theory but voting should be an incentive to naturalization.
It still is. It was only limited to local elections.
Besides, taxation without representation is unjust and was one of the bases for the American Revolution itself. Hard to argue against it.
“We should make things hard and unjust so immigrants are pressured to become citizens,” is a pretty terrible argument, not to mention needlessly cruel.
Besides, taxation without representation is unjust and was one of the bases for the American Revolution itself. Hard to argue against it.
In general I agree but if I fly into another country and buy something (paying sales tax) I don't expect to be able to immediately vote in their elections. Waiting a few years to be able to vote (when the rest of us have to wait 18 years) seems reasonable. Not to mention foreign adversaries would jump at the chance to ship in thousands of loyalists and have a real influence on an election.
“We should make things hard and unjust so immigrants are pressured to become citizens,” is a pretty terrible argument, not to mention needlessly cruel.
Hard? If having a vote suddenly makes things easy I've been doing voting wrong my whole life. And the naturalization process is cruel, but let's fix that. If you're productive and have a clean record you shouldn't have to wait more than a year.
In general I agree but if I fly into another country and buy something (paying sales tax) I don't expect to be able to immediately vote in their elections. Waiting a few years to be able to vote (when the rest of us have to wait 18 years) seems reasonable.
Most of the immigrants in question have been in NYC for years if not most of their lives, far exceeding your own, personal requirements. But NYC set the limit to 6 months, the same limit set for everyone to be considered an NYC resident. All they had to do was be able to prove NYC residency (not a low bar, btw), which proves that they pay taxes.
Hard? If having a vote suddenly makes things easy I've been doing voting wrong my whole life. And the naturalization process is cruel, but let's fix that. If you're productive and have a clean record you shouldn't have to wait more than a year.
First of all, if you want to fix the cruel naturalization process, then stop throwing up needless roadblocks to acting in a democracy like citizenship requirements. If one can prove residency and that one is a taxpayer (thus, as is just, deserving of representation, depending on the level of taxation: municipal, state, federal, etc.), then one should get a vote in how said tax collected is dispersed and relevant administrative decisions made, representatives chosen, etc. This was the crux of the NYC decision to let local immigrants vote in local elections.
Second, NO, it shouldn’t take more than a year to process someone’s application of naturalization— in fact, it shouldn’t take more than a month or two. But it takes, even with the best attorney and all expedited “fees”, well over FIVE YEARS. If you’re lucky. If you’re not lucky, it’s never.
I’ve been through this process with friends and loved ones, for better and for worse, over the past 16 or so years. You, clearly, have not. Or you’re discussing this in bad faith— I hope it’s the former, but, buddy, you’re just wrong when you present this as some simple thing that’s “not so bad.” There’s a reason it’s one of the most cantankerous issues of the last 3-4 generations.
The imaginary ones Fox News is always screaming about.
Hunter Biden smuggles them in during the night in his laptop!
Non-american here so wondering, can literally anyone in the US walk into a voting booth and cast a vote? If so... Why would you allow that? And why would you not want to prevent it?
No, trump is just a fucking chode. This is theater for the brain dead Fox News masses to wave flags about.
And apparently since 2001, there have been fewer than 100 cases (I think somewhere in the area of 50-60 cases) where a non-citizen attempted to vote.
Less than 100 cases. In over 20 years.
It's an obvious, bald-faced smokescreen, covering their plans to rig the election or commit a coup should they lose.
Citizens only for Federal and State elections. Some local elections allow non-citizens. Very few. Not something that needs Federal legislation.
As others pointed out, it’s political theater because that’s all they have.
Sooooo Amir, who is here on a work visa, loses his vote on where to go for the team lunch? Sorry, Chipotle, it is.
The irony is that Amir always votes por Chipotle.
Only citizens can vote. This is just a public relations stunt to promote Trump's fake narrative about voter fraud
I don't have to present any ID in order to vote. Since I am already on the voting rolls, all I do is show up at the poll, tell them who I am, and they find my name in the (now electronic) book. I sign it and then I can go vote.
Now, when I initially registered, I had to prove I was eligible. Most voter registration is done here in conjunction with getting your driver's license (or other non-driver state ID). Since you have to produce your birth certificate and/or naturalization papers, they can check your eligibility right there.
A lot of the misinformation from the Right stems from how closely the DMV is tied into voter registration. Non-citizens can drive, of course, and some states even give licenses to people here illegally. Republicans assume all these people get signed up to vote, also, but they do not. Only people who can prove their eligibility get registered.
Trump is trying to play off that the election process is flawed, so that he can claim victory no matter how badly he loses.
This is a non issue that is trying to take advantage of the ignorance in certain parts of Trumps base.
There are voter rolls that each state maintains of eligible voters. These rolls have to conform to minimum guidelines, like allowing all US citizens without felonies 18 years or older to vote. However, the federal government doesn't have any never had any maximum guidelines.
If a state decided that all 16 year old citizens could vote, the Federal Government couldn't do anything. Same with how different states address allowing felons who have served their time the ability to vote. In theory, this could include allowing non-citizens the opportunity as well.
This was built into the Constitution as an option. All elections, including for President, have some mechanism in place so that it doesn't matter if a state has a lesser or greater percentage of its residents vote over other states. After all, the Constitution was written in mind where several states would have significant slave populations.
It is unknown if a federal maximum guideline would be constitutional, since it really messes with the division of powers between the states and the federal government.
Voting in person in the US usually involves a checkin process where an election worker looks up your name and address to 1. Confirm you are registered to vote, 2. Confirm you are in the correct location to vote, and 3. Confirm that you haven’t already voted.
After voting you follow a similar process to check out, so they have a record that you checked in, voted, and checked out.
Point 2 is because in larger towns & cities there are often multiple voting locations, and voting locations are based on where in the town you live. For example in my city I vote at a church two blocks away from my home. If I tried to vote at a different location in my city they wouldn’t allow it, and would tell me to go to that church. (I think I could cast a provisional ballot at an alternate location if I provided sufficient ID, but that vote would only be counted after the election ended and records showed I didn’t vote at my usual location.)
It's already illegal, they're just trying to make it like, double illegal??? Basically just fanning their base's flames over a fake issue.
Like yes you do need to be a citizen and register to vote, nit just walk in.
Next up on their agenda: legislating that water stays wet and that gravity doesn't start repulsing objects
Make Gravity Pull Stuff Down Again
JFC, fuck off.
However, non-citizens are already not allowed to vote in federal elections in the United States, and it's not a common occurrence.
No state currently allows non-citizens to cast a ballot in state-level elections either, according to the Bipartisan Policy Center, though some municipalities may have their own rules for local races.
More republican, Security theater.
Wait, wait — let me guess. They’ll say it affects non-citizens, but it will actually create tedious barriers to voting that affect mostly the American urban working class.
It's perfectly okay if they vote Republican though.
I think a lot of people are missing the next step of the plan. First, they push a bill that specifically says it is illegal for non citizens to vote. Assume the bill passes, because why wouldn't it? You already have to be a citizen to vote. It's all political theater, after all, so there is no need to pick a fight.
Then red states come through with a fucked up interpretation of the law that says felons are no longer U.S. citizens. Now it is illegal for felons to ever vote again. The law would be challenged, appealed, and eventually make its way to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court, that is absolutely going to side with the "States right" to choose what happens to their felons.
Finally, they use selective enforcement of law combined with aggregate data from any number of sources to build felony cases specifically against political rivals. Then you have red states that can never go blue again.
This is all fascism 101.
It’s impossible to denaturalize a natural-born citizen. This is explicitly protected in the 14th amendment.
The only laws allowing for stripping a person’s citizenship applies to those who became a citizen. Most commonly, because that citizenship was obtained illegally or through fraud.
Other things that can trigger it include being a member of a terrorist group (“subversive”), failing to testify before congress, or a dishonorable discharge if your service included a path to citizenship.
Oh, so they want to make it...like, double-illegal or something? Can we also pass extra laws to prevent murder--but, you know, more?
It’s now super-duper illegal. That’s a technical term.
They will put them on Double Secret Probation.
Came here to say this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tfK_3XK4CI
It's a way to push voter id and other voter suppression tactics.
It's just life how whenever someone wants to censor media, it's to protect the children.
Vote for me, I promise to make crime illegal.
There actually are a lot of laws that allow prosecutors to stack charges.
The real question is what other things this bill will have.
At best they'll make it a fixture of the election that Democrats don't support legal elections. At worst universal voter ID, no more mail-in voting, and hassling the fuck out of anyone that doesn't "look American" or have an anglicized name.
What a great idea. Solve a problem that doesn't exist rather than all the shit crumbling around us. Heroes.
Also, given that's a non-problem, they will, in fact, never solve it. Which is exactly what they want. A "problem" they can endlessly demagogue whip up grievances about.
Democrats should agree with this, and amend the bill to indicate that all citizens should have the right to vote (ideally with it being a felony to try to prevent them from doing so). Let Trump and Johnson explain why they don't want that part of it.
Love this idea, great way to sneak in Voting Rights Act that was pretty much DOA on week 1.
Anything that puts them on the backfoot and exposes the awful Republican policies in the light of day will work extremely well!
Great idea. Maybe also add extra provisions that would give extreme punishment to those cons that were caught trying to vote more than once, as well. Call out those specific examples when it's being debated.
Anyone with a brain knows non-citizens can't vote. This is just a way to push the narrative to their dumb base that "illegals" are voting.
Or the law will be conveniently structured in such a way that once again makes it more difficult for people who are minorities or live in urban centers to vote.
In federal electionst that is true. Some cities and states allow noncitizens to vote in local things.
Edit: An article. https://minnesotareformer.com/2023/03/16/noncitizens-allowed-to-vote-in-some-local-elections-spurring-backlash-from-gop/
Interestingly, noncitizens in MN cannot vote in state or local elections.
And all the illegal voting has been found to have come from Republicans.
That's why they are so mad, They've been cheating and still lost.
Right up there with the recent Tennessee (?) legislation to outlaw chemtrails…
If that's real, I wonder if they are some of the same people that thought the 80s Satanic Panic stuff was real and so was the Comet Pizza stuff....and that The Storm is still coming, LOL.
the only place that i know of that lets non-citizens vote in NYC, and only for local elections.
their reasoning is that, if you live in NYC, you're paying taxes and, therefore, have the right to representation. you still have to register and show ID, using the city's NYC ID, which is issued for free (gasp!). (more info on NYC ID)
edit: my bad-- this law was ruled unconstitutional on appeal, after a long court battle, on 2/24/2024. boo
It is important to note that the law was determined to be unconstitutional to the NY State Constitution. This hasn't been tested if a state allowed non-citizens to vote.
That IS important!
Eh, I get it in theory but voting should be an incentive to naturalization.
It still is. It was only limited to local elections.
Besides, taxation without representation is unjust and was one of the bases for the American Revolution itself. Hard to argue against it.
“We should make things hard and unjust so immigrants are pressured to become citizens,” is a pretty terrible argument, not to mention needlessly cruel.
In general I agree but if I fly into another country and buy something (paying sales tax) I don't expect to be able to immediately vote in their elections. Waiting a few years to be able to vote (when the rest of us have to wait 18 years) seems reasonable. Not to mention foreign adversaries would jump at the chance to ship in thousands of loyalists and have a real influence on an election.
Hard? If having a vote suddenly makes things easy I've been doing voting wrong my whole life. And the naturalization process is cruel, but let's fix that. If you're productive and have a clean record you shouldn't have to wait more than a year.
Most of the immigrants in question have been in NYC for years if not most of their lives, far exceeding your own, personal requirements. But NYC set the limit to 6 months, the same limit set for everyone to be considered an NYC resident. All they had to do was be able to prove NYC residency (not a low bar, btw), which proves that they pay taxes.
First of all, if you want to fix the cruel naturalization process, then stop throwing up needless roadblocks to acting in a democracy like citizenship requirements. If one can prove residency and that one is a taxpayer (thus, as is just, deserving of representation, depending on the level of taxation: municipal, state, federal, etc.), then one should get a vote in how said tax collected is dispersed and relevant administrative decisions made, representatives chosen, etc. This was the crux of the NYC decision to let local immigrants vote in local elections.
Second, NO, it shouldn’t take more than a year to process someone’s application of naturalization— in fact, it shouldn’t take more than a month or two. But it takes, even with the best attorney and all expedited “fees”, well over FIVE YEARS. If you’re lucky. If you’re not lucky, it’s never.
I’ve been through this process with friends and loved ones, for better and for worse, over the past 16 or so years. You, clearly, have not. Or you’re discussing this in bad faith— I hope it’s the former, but, buddy, you’re just wrong when you present this as some simple thing that’s “not so bad.” There’s a reason it’s one of the most cantankerous issues of the last 3-4 generations.
The Alt-Right Playbook - Didoing
What non-citizens are voting right now?
The imaginary ones Fox News is always screaming about.
Hunter Biden smuggles them in during the night in his laptop!
Non-american here so wondering, can literally anyone in the US walk into a voting booth and cast a vote? If so... Why would you allow that? And why would you not want to prevent it?
No, trump is just a fucking chode. This is theater for the brain dead Fox News masses to wave flags about.
https://www.usa.gov/who-can-vote
And apparently since 2001, there have been fewer than 100 cases (I think somewhere in the area of 50-60 cases) where a non-citizen attempted to vote.
Less than 100 cases. In over 20 years.
It's an obvious, bald-faced smokescreen, covering their plans to rig the election or commit a coup should they lose.
Citizens only for Federal and State elections. Some local elections allow non-citizens. Very few. Not something that needs Federal legislation.
As others pointed out, it’s political theater because that’s all they have.
Sooooo Amir, who is here on a work visa, loses his vote on where to go for the team lunch? Sorry, Chipotle, it is.
The irony is that Amir always votes por Chipotle.
Only citizens can vote. This is just a public relations stunt to promote Trump's fake narrative about voter fraud
I don't have to present any ID in order to vote. Since I am already on the voting rolls, all I do is show up at the poll, tell them who I am, and they find my name in the (now electronic) book. I sign it and then I can go vote.
Now, when I initially registered, I had to prove I was eligible. Most voter registration is done here in conjunction with getting your driver's license (or other non-driver state ID). Since you have to produce your birth certificate and/or naturalization papers, they can check your eligibility right there.
A lot of the misinformation from the Right stems from how closely the DMV is tied into voter registration. Non-citizens can drive, of course, and some states even give licenses to people here illegally. Republicans assume all these people get signed up to vote, also, but they do not. Only people who can prove their eligibility get registered.
Trump is trying to play off that the election process is flawed, so that he can claim victory no matter how badly he loses.
This is a non issue that is trying to take advantage of the ignorance in certain parts of Trumps base.
There are voter rolls that each state maintains of eligible voters. These rolls have to conform to minimum guidelines, like allowing all US citizens without felonies 18 years or older to vote. However, the federal government doesn't have any never had any maximum guidelines.
If a state decided that all 16 year old citizens could vote, the Federal Government couldn't do anything. Same with how different states address allowing felons who have served their time the ability to vote. In theory, this could include allowing non-citizens the opportunity as well.
This was built into the Constitution as an option. All elections, including for President, have some mechanism in place so that it doesn't matter if a state has a lesser or greater percentage of its residents vote over other states. After all, the Constitution was written in mind where several states would have significant slave populations.
It is unknown if a federal maximum guideline would be constitutional, since it really messes with the division of powers between the states and the federal government.
Voting in person in the US usually involves a checkin process where an election worker looks up your name and address to 1. Confirm you are registered to vote, 2. Confirm you are in the correct location to vote, and 3. Confirm that you haven’t already voted.
After voting you follow a similar process to check out, so they have a record that you checked in, voted, and checked out.
Point 2 is because in larger towns & cities there are often multiple voting locations, and voting locations are based on where in the town you live. For example in my city I vote at a church two blocks away from my home. If I tried to vote at a different location in my city they wouldn’t allow it, and would tell me to go to that church. (I think I could cast a provisional ballot at an alternate location if I provided sufficient ID, but that vote would only be counted after the election ended and records showed I didn’t vote at my usual location.)
It's already illegal, they're just trying to make it like, double illegal??? Basically just fanning their base's flames over a fake issue.
Like yes you do need to be a citizen and register to vote, nit just walk in.
Next up on their agenda: legislating that water stays wet and that gravity doesn't start repulsing objects
Make Gravity Pull Stuff Down Again
JFC, fuck off.
More republican, Security theater.
Wait, wait — let me guess. They’ll say it affects non-citizens, but it will actually create tedious barriers to voting that affect mostly the American urban working class.
It's perfectly okay if they vote Republican though.
I think a lot of people are missing the next step of the plan. First, they push a bill that specifically says it is illegal for non citizens to vote. Assume the bill passes, because why wouldn't it? You already have to be a citizen to vote. It's all political theater, after all, so there is no need to pick a fight.
Then red states come through with a fucked up interpretation of the law that says felons are no longer U.S. citizens. Now it is illegal for felons to ever vote again. The law would be challenged, appealed, and eventually make its way to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court, that is absolutely going to side with the "States right" to choose what happens to their felons.
Finally, they use selective enforcement of law combined with aggregate data from any number of sources to build felony cases specifically against political rivals. Then you have red states that can never go blue again.
This is all fascism 101.
It’s impossible to denaturalize a natural-born citizen. This is explicitly protected in the 14th amendment.
The only laws allowing for stripping a person’s citizenship applies to those who became a citizen. Most commonly, because that citizenship was obtained illegally or through fraud.
Other things that can trigger it include being a member of a terrorist group (“subversive”), failing to testify before congress, or a dishonorable discharge if your service included a path to citizenship.