TikTok says it’s not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine — The company denied allegations that it has been promoting pro-Palestine content in an effort to sway American opinion
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TikTok says it’s not the algorithm, teens are just pro-Palestine — The company denied allegations that it has been promoting pro-Palestine content in an effort to sway American opinion::In a blog post, the company denied allegations that it has been promoting pro-Palestine content in an effort to sway American opinion.
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If you aren't anti-oppression or anti-apartheid you aren't progressive
Yeah well, one can be anti-oppression and anti-apartheid as well as anti-terror, anti-killing-civilians, anti-bombing-hospitals, anti-using-civilians-as-shields, anti-hostage-taking and anti-warcrimes.
The israeli Government is not the only one with blood on their hands and while nothing can excuse what the IDF is doing, nothing can excuse what HAMAS is doing too.
Both sides fucking suck, the only difference I can see is that HAMAS is bad for Israelis and Palestinians moreso than the Israeli Government is also bad for Israelis.
You literally listed off everything Israel is doing. Good job.
Israel's killed over 11k civilians since Oct 7th.
Israel's bombed over 20 hospitals.
Israel refused to take their hostages back even when Hamas offered them in exchange for the Palestinians hostages Israel has. Then bombed the locations they know hostages were at.
Hamas is using hospitals as staging grounds to fire rockets at Israel, over 9,500 rockets so far since Oct 7th.
The hostage exchange was for a ceasefire that Hamas wanted so they could regroup and start attacking Israel from stronger positions. And they only offered 15 of the 200+ hostages. It was fucking bullshit, and Israel was right to reject it.
nothing really found in the hospitals yet - https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-11-16-2023-6c7daa3b8c3a6b8dddf186ce631dfaad
We know Hamas fighters have been using the hospitals to stage rocket attacks, and fire out of. Whether there is an actual base of operations hidden in them is beyond the point, Hamas uses civilian infrastructure to fire at Israel from. They have said as much, they fight from among civilians to get Israel to kill civilians so Israel looks bad to the world. It's how Hamas operates.
where is your citation?
edit: even if there is, that does not justify the shelling of hospitals by the IDF
There was an article on the active page of Lemmy yesterday with confirmation of Hamas fighting from a major hospital.
So it should be easy for you to link it. That is, if it does prove your point and exists in the first place. Because right now your source is "trust me bro".
https://www.i24news.tv/en/news/israel-at-war/1699881898-idf-releases-footage-of-hamas-firing-rpg-from-gaza-city-hospital
https://www.aol.com/news/israel-clashes-hamas-major-hospital-162417982.html
We don't know that, that's just what Israel claims. Israel is known to lie about that stuff.
There is video of weapons fire coming from hospitals, so we do have that.
And Hamas is constantly lying too, yet everyone on this site seems to eat up everything they say.
Hamas has not lied as blatantly as Israel. The death tolls they have reported have typically been corroborated by later independent sources.
What does weapons fire actually imply in a territory subjected to constant bombing and siege warfare? It's not like hospitals are safe from bombings and other attacks, so being armed in a gaza hospital is simply the intelligent thing to do
Most independent sources I've seen reporting on numbers have been Palestinians. The UN is not reporting on casualties because it cannot verify any of the claimed numbers.
And Hamas lied about 500 Palestinians being killed in one attack on a hospital by Israel, except it turned out that attack was actually Islamic Jihadists misfiring, and nowhere near 500 people died.
Hamas verifiably made up that 5% of the casualties in this war, so no, you shouldn't believe the rest of their numbers.
And Hamas has fired thousands of rockets into Israeli territory since Oct. 7th, that goes beyond defending yourself in a hospital.
And the bombing and siege warfare started after Hamas invaded Israel, killed over a thousand civilians, and fired thousands of rockets at Israeli cities.
Pretty sure that attack was actually done by Israel, if we are talking about the same thing. Hamas fired thousands of rockets because Israel is genociding them, essentially via siege warfare. The media simply decided not to cover all of the preceding heinous shit Israel did to provoke it, because the capitalist class owns the media. You should really start verifying the truth of random news stories you read, because it sounds like you believe the myth being spread by Western media that Israel is the good guy. Israel is committing genocide, and so it really doesn't matter at all what Hamas or Palestine has done in response.
No, that attack was confirmed to be Islamic Jihadists, and it was confirmed Hamas lied.
And your forgetting all the heinous shit Palestine did to make Israel like it is today, like trying to wipe out all the Jews as soon as Israel was formed, launching another war against them in 1967, 30 years of having a government that wanted Israel wiped out as their second charter.
There are no good guys, but Hamas are terrorists and need to be wiped out.
Israel is the one actively colonizing palestine's land. Israel is the one holding a 30 year siege. Israel is targeting civilians, as shown by the civilian death tolls on each side. Israel is doing all they can to torture and kill Palestinians. Dead palestinians outnumber dead Israelis 10 to 1.
Palestine is good because they are killing genociders, just like the allies were good in WW2. Israel is evil. It's not complicated.
Netanyahu be like... "Hmm, they are going to attack but if I stop them I may still go to jail, but if I don't then I get more power... Let me have the Kushners put me in touch with Donny to see what he'd do."
yea exactly I'm sick of all this whataboutism about Hamas. Hamas is the sole response to the atrocities that the idf has started. they hold all the power in this situation, they have killed many many many more people then Hamas ever could. They have also committed and are committing insane like Nazi level war crimes and all we get is... okay but Hamas bad.
also lets not forget.. most Palestinians didn't even want Hamas. they havent had an actiall election in almost two decades. Because it's literally not safe enough because the idf keeps bombing them.
stop all the back and forth finger pointing, America could pull funding from isreal, instead of this E fleas posturing. If isreal wanted peace then we could hve peace but there will never be peace until the idf stops bombing refugee camps and hospitals lol.
so sick of all this whataboutism, obviously any killing is wrong but Hamas is just a glorified token a red herring being used to justify brutality on a Holocaust level scale. and we need to stop allowing it.
Not for lack of trying. If it weren't for the billions of dollars spent on the Iron Dome every year, and the Israeli intelligence apparatus allowing them to evacuate their cities before attacks, many more Israelis would be dead. Attempted murder by Hamas is still atrocious.
Hamas still had broad support as of 2020, so no most Palestinians do want Hamas.
Tell Hamas to stop using them as bases of operation and firing rockets at Israel from those locations then. Hamas wants dead Palestinian civilians, that's their goal in the war to make Israel look bad.
It pains me to admit but that works and I think Israel does look bad because of this. Also when you have people indoctrinated to the level that they will gladly act as a shield to become martyres it is hard to fight clean :( I haven't thought about this possibility before
That's the only difference you see? Not the extreme disproportionality of the bloodshed? Not the comparisons between civilian casualties on each side?
Hamas is like the cave-dwelling dwarf people that America made up for the middle-east to justify killing over a hundred-thousand civilians. Seriously, are we to believe that Gaza has a bunch of Gringotts vaults underneath it?
Seriously, it is clear that the bombing is not about saving hostages nor destroying Hamas. Would it surprise anyone if they found out that Israel's far-right government is like the ex that attacks you and then punches themselves and screams like a Karen that you attacked them first.. and then when asked for evidence because their wounds look self-induced, they yell... you don't believe me you antisemitic Nazi!?!
Sure, and if you are those things its going to be hard to get enthusiastic about voting for Biden.
Oh no! Not a German overcompensating for their countries role in the holocaust.
If you want to dismantle Hamas for the the operation on the 7th, by the same logic we should dismantle Israel 10x for all their operations since 2003 such as operation lead.
Do you have a source for this?
https://www.jordannews.jo/Section-20/Middle-East/Helicopter-footage-shows-IOF-targeting-of-civilians-at-music-festival-32190
Sure, but who is the "oppressor" and who is the "oppressed" can flip on a dime based on context.
A lot of oppressed people eventually find themselves to be the oppressor.
If you take a hard stance joining any side, you are at some point siding with an oppressor.
I don't need to describe how horrific and oppressive Nazi Germany and the Holocaust was. But you take a hard stance siding with the Jewish people, you are siding with the oppressor in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
I don't need to describe how horrific the situation in Gaza is, but if you take a hard stance siding with Palestine and Hamas executes a bunch of festival goers, you're siding with the oppressor.
The only way to be anti-opression (and according to you, a real progressive), is to not take sides but take every situation as it is and support the best possible outcome for everyone.
Israel doesn't represent every Jew that ever lived around the world.
Yes I support the Warsaw uprising.
Yes I support the dismantlement of apartheid states.
These are not conflicting stances.
If the oppressed become an oppressor my stance can change on them. Not taking the side of the oppressed while they are being oppressed is cowardly and indirectly supports the status quo/the oppressor.
I must have missed history class where the Warsaw Uprising attacked a peace festival.
Being oppressed is not a license to become a monster yourself. I refuse to condone cold blooded revenge (both Hamas and IDF).
That the festival was for peace in Gaza is an onboarding lie spread by the IDF. The festival was simply in celebration of the Jewish holiday of Sukkot. The motto was "friends, love and infinite freedom", so just about a regular rave.
Sadly mandatory: This doesn't make it okay to slaughter and abduct the attendees.
Alright what about warcrimes committed by resistance fighters and the allied forced during ww2?
If you support those groups even though they have done bad shit then you're a hypocrite and you should try and understand why you consider them differently.
Hamas wants to get Palestinian's killed by Israel, that's their goal. They want their own people to die so Israel looks bad and maybe Hamas can get Saudi Arabia to attack.
That's worse than what the allies did.
At this point i support hamas uncritically because israel is an apartheid state and its stepdad, the USA, is the largest state sponsor of terror in the world.
So you support a terrorist organization attempting to eradicate all Jews, and getting their own people willingly killed in the process. Good to know.
Can you show me the part of the Hamas charter where they call for the eradication of all Jews? I’ve leafed through it a few times and I can’t find it.
So you support a terrorist state attempting to eradicate safe spaces for Jews outside of Israel by funding antisemitic groups in those countries, and getting Jews killed in the process. Good to know.
i don't care about the opinion of genocidal freaks such as yourself who sanction ethnic cleansing campaigns. everything you say is wrong and irrelevant
You yourself support an attempted Genocide you moron.
Imagine being this cringe
Imagine supporting a genocidal terrorist organization.
You mean the IDF?
I can see that since 7 October Israel shut off electricity and water to Gaza, bombed bakeries and hospitals, forced the northern half of Gaza to evacuate to the southern half while still accosting and shooting them. I know that when Israel released the names of the so-called victims from the day Hamas breached the Gazan perimeter that a huge number of them were IDF soldiers, not civilians. I know that over 10,000 Palestinian civilians are currently dead due to the indiscriminate bombing campaign that Israel has conducted with the approval of the USA. This is what's actually happening, not whatever imagined scenario you are conjuring.
As for Hamas, I know that its creation was partly due to support from Israel itself. I know that birthright tours are designed to conflate Judaism and Zionism and to encourage settlers to come steal ever more land from Palestinians. I know that Palestine is thoroughly occupied by Israel. The people of Gaza do not control their own border, or ports, or airspace, or anything else. Until Palestinians are uncaged and allowed some form of self-determination their efforts should be applauded as resistance against an apartheid state and the people who take up arms are freedom fighters.
Hamas wants hostages to do a hostage swap for Palestinians that Israel is holding hostage in their prisons.
This is true of any organisation fighting a nation state.
The IRA did hostage swaps with the British government and this was one of the reasons there is peace in northern Ireland.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2011/oct/18/prisoner-swaps-cornerstone-northern-ireland
Edit: looking at tavarins comment history it is most likely they are a Zionist mouthpiece. Hope they are getting paid and not doing unpaid labour ❤
Just anti terrorist.
And Hamas demanded a 4 day caesefire as part of the hostage swaps, and only offered a small number of hostages.
And I have Israeli friends who had to live under Hamas rocket fire.
So your issue is that Israel couldn't negotiate better or at all?
And I have Palestinian friends that have lost tens of family members.
What's there to negotiate, one side won't give up hostages without a ceasefire that will greatly strengthen them.
Then why do you seem to support Hamas? Hamas is a cancer to Palestine.
Get rid of Hamas and Nethenyu, then maybe the sides can actually go about negotiating peace.
But here on Lemmy so many of you just scream only Israel bad, Hamas are "good freedom fighters" despite Hamas literally stating they want Israel to kill Palestinians. It's fucking exhausting the shit you people spout.
So no ceasefire till every Palestinian is dead? IOF has a 99% civilian casualty ratio, to take out Hamas fully the civilian death toll would be massive.
A cancer is something that spreads and kills the host. Oh I've just described isaerl, funny that.
Resistance to oppression is always justified. You can critically support groups like Hamas because they are the only ones fighting the oppressor. If the UN was actually stopping Israel I wouldn't need to vocally support the next best thing.
Hamas has come out and said they use tactics that put civilians in the line of fire intentionally. So no, I cannot support the disgusting terrorist group Hamas.
And it's fucking appalling that you can.
My friend, the IOF policy to drop bombs and white phosphorus over densely populated areas (a war crime btw) puts civilians in the line of fire intentionally.
Never mind their policy to shoot any IOF soldiers and settlers who are being taken hostage.
You're demanding to view this as "good team" / "bad team". Fix that first because it stops any hope for peace.
Did looking at Nazis as the bad guys stop peace?
But no I'm asking if you support critically or uncritically the allies in ww2.
If you support the allies even though they committed war crimes and you don't at least uncritically support an oppressed peoples struggle then you are at best a hypocrite and at worst a racist.
Interesting, so do you support the oppression of women in the US, or are you against the oppression of women?
Whatever Palestine does to free themselves from oppression is justified. Israel has never been oppressed by Palestine.
It's the kind of progressive that only counts things that affect you personally
Ah yes, the nuanced thinking of a 5 year old - everything is black and white and everyone who doesn't agree w me 100% is evil
Do you know what genocide is? It's pretty much the most black and white issue there could possibly be. People who disagree with me on this ARE evil. There is actually such a thing as truth.
If it's so black and white, then why are there numerous international councils, courts, and meetings where accusations of genocide are fiercely debated?
Because Israel is good at propaganda, and the most powerful country ever supports them. It's not remotely debatable though, the American hegemony just wants it to be.
Ironically the same mindset held by hamas and israel.
I mean if you think apartheid south Africa, Jim crow laws and indiscriminate killing of second class citizens by the police or army are issues deserving of nuanced debate you need to take a look at yourself.