Gen-Z you thought we'd forgotten about you, but we managed to sort it out last minute! Enjoy your Middle East Theatre.
But hey, we might get a decent CoD or Battlefield game out of it in a couple of years.
That was BF 3 and it released like 13 years ago. While the trope was "US vs. Russia" the maps and campaign were situated mostly in Iran.
This is funny and I hate it.
AIPAC involved no doubt.
Blows me away that so many people ignore the unbelievable amount of influence AIPAC has, particularly in campaign season
AIPAC IS FRONT LINE AND CENTER. Leaked documents from start of the war show that a literal AIPAC lobbyist and now ambassador to Israel, Lew, kept arguing early in the war that Israel's subsequent campaign to wipe out Gaza would be "humanitarian."
John Bolton, famous war enjoyer
That should be Bolton's epitaph. It's still wild to think he was one of the sanest voices in the Trump administration, especially when he was one of the craziest in the Bush administration.
I hope he burns in hell right next to Kissinger and Reagan.
Israel is the greatest threat to regional stability.
Everyone being surprised the US doesn't want a stable middle East: Insert surprised pikachu face.
I love how the article refers to Bolton as "famous war enjoyer". I hope that catches on.
Look how it easy it is to solve problems, when your ass isn't on the front lines! /s
If the only tool you have is a hammer...
It shows what a failed kind of people they are, both intellectually and ethically, if the only language they speak is violence.
Going into a war with Iran will set the entire region ablaze. The only thing the Iraq war did, was increasing influence for Iran. The only thing the Afghanistan war did, was a 20 year sabbatical for the Taliban.
The US surely can destroy major Iranian infrastructure like oil production and probably cripple its conventional military capabilities. But then what?
In the process Iran would destroy the oil production of US allied nations.
We would see years if not decades of Iraq style insurgencies.
Tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of people would become refugees, with the pressure on Europe easily having the potential to break the Union and turn the states into full blown fascist hellholes.
Russia would use the distraction and the high oil price income to deliver the final blow to Ukraine.
China could feel emboldened or threatened to push for its military ambitions in the South China sea and Taiwan.
Justified hatred for the US in all of the Middle East would be ensured for another three generations to come.
The resulting global economic crisis would plunge large swaths of Americans and Europeans into poverty (and many more people around the world, that the West doesn't care for unfortunately).
Meanwhile i don't see anything positive coming out of it. I don't see how it would stabilize the region in the long run, help economic development or create conditions under which better diplomatic ties grow.
Yeah that sounds terrible and all however we forgot the best part. We finally got to bomb Iran!
Won't somebody think of the Military Industrial Complex's profits?
Remember when everyone was praising Bolton for going against Trump? This is why you don't simp too hard for people who have already shown who they are but happen to do one good thing.
Next: Liz Cheney.
I'd support every war if the first wave in was these old Republican fucks. Let Bolton storm the beaches.
I can't see the Democrats considering another unpopular war right now. Trump might, but I can only imagine what craziness that would look like. There's a non-zero chance he would ignore Israel and move assets to the Gulf states because they gargled his balls just right, or something. Or maybe he decides to do nukes.
If Netanyahu can get an open war between Israel and Iran before Jan 20th then Biden will absolutely commit ground forces to fighting that. Which is going to mean counter insurgency or even frontline work in Iraq again.
My god, would he? Even if that meant tanking the election? (If it's in the lame duck period after Nov. 5 that seems less crazy, I guess)
Time and again he has repeated their propaganda, even when our own intelligence agencies said Israel was lying. He always talks about a ceasefire, but every time Netanyahu moves the goalposts at the last minute, (usually by adding Hamas' known deal breaker that IDF troops would remain afterwards), Biden blames Hamas. Biden and Blinken have ignored evidence of war crimes from their own agencies that disqualify Israel for military aid. Now he's surged troops into the region, and he isn't using them to evacuate the 6,000 Americans who have asked for help leaving Lebanon.
Where does it stop? We think it has to just based on rationality but we made that mistake with Bush. We thought that a clear trial of the facts in Congress would either give him the moral authority to conduct the war or shut it all down and he just ignored that part of the AUMF. Like Biden has just ignored any evidence against Israel, even regarding the ICC. So I ask again, where does this train stop? What evidence do we have that he's working to restrain Netanyahu and prevent a wider war being kicked off by the obvious belligerent?
It's pretty clear he's not willing to actually punish them for anything. Sending ordinary American troops into a ground war for them is another thing entirely, though. Nobody's forgotten how the last ones went, and American democracy is already teetering on the brink.
Hamas’ known deal breaker that IDF troops would remain afterwards
And, y'know, that's not a ceasefire. Just thought I'd point that out.
It sure can be. It's one way to make sure it leads to a real peace process instead of Hamas giving up the remaining hostages and then getting nothing but a couple days of no fighting.
And yeah, that's why I'm worried. I'm not sure Biden realizes there's a line there. He's sure not doing anything to keep from approaching that line.
Yes.
He would.
Despite everything he has publicly stated he has continued to offer Israel support. His administration quietly greenlit the attacks and invasion of Lebanon.
As long as our own military is not directly involved as the conflict expands I believe the election prospects will be fine but it still pains me to see this happening.
And still Trump supporters tell me that Trump is the anti-war candidate and the Democrats always start wars. I guess they will blame the war with Iran on Biden, even though Trump pulled out of the Iran deal, antagonized the Palestinians, and did his best to start a war by assassinating generals. Let's not forget Bolton's "I'll celebrate with you in Tehran" speech.
Trump is shit, but Biden’s hands are not even close to clean in this situation. He has done everything he could to allow the situation to escalate and the war is starting in earnest on his watch.
Let’s all be honest here and recognize when our team is doing the wrong thing also.
Is it possible that the Democrats' hands are tied because the American public supports Israel and AIPAC has successfully primaried several progressive politicians?
I think they're in a tough spot politically, the left seems to think that support for Israel will cost the Democrats elections, but there's more evidence that if they do NOT support Israel strongly enough, it will cost them elections.
You're probably correct in that it is a balancing act with no real winners.
It's too bad so few seem to be able to see the nuances.
Right, because D-Day and Vietnam showed clearly that USA politicians never act against what the popular opinion dictates
When are they not?
A simple translation is that war is good for their business.
It's a real shame John McCain isn't here to lose the war he fought so hard to engineer.
It's all about the $$$$$$
Remember when people thought Trump was crazy for trying to go to war with Iran? Choosing the lesser evil everytime in "democratic" elections has got us to this.
Which candidate that has a chance of winning the election in November do you think Americans should vote for?
Neither. Leave it blank or vote green, even though they definitely won't win. Giving your vote to the Democrats now, from their perspective, means you're complacent enough to ignore an entire genocide. Your government is absolutely gonna use weapons and tactics against its populace that Israel has been doing.
And no, Trump doing more genocide isn't a valid argument.
Why bother voting at all if you're going to do that? What does it accomplish any more than staying home?
And no, Trump doing more genocide isn’t a valid argument.
As the parent of a queer daughter, hard disagree.
You make it clear to the democrats you won't tolerate them adopting right wing policies and genocide.
Democrats have turned against migrants and queer people too. I'm sorry to say this, but the world is unsafe for queer people everywhere, including me.
If Trump wins democrats would get off their asses and try to block him. Instead they're now totally on board with building a functionless border wall, for example. Remember when people called Trump insane for doing that. Now here we are.
Vote for whoever you like, keep your family safe. Perhaps I'm the exception, but I will never feel safe again, regardless of who wins, and I'm Canadian.
No one is free until everyone is free.
Why would it make it clear to them now when it didn't make it clear to them any other time Jill Stein ran for president? When she has less support this time than she has previously? That is absolutely illogical.
Democrats have turned against migrants and queer people too.
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Republicans want to put my daughter in a fucking camp. Democrats do not.
Uhuh. It's only a matter of time with the democrats. If they're fine with mass murder of middle easterners, they can easily do the same with white queer people.
Regardless, I'm not interested in having an argument with some internet rando. I'll not reply going forward.
Your "internet rando" prediction of "it's only a matter of time" with Democrats vs. what they Republicans literally say they are going to do.
Yeah, think I'll go with stopping what people actually say they're going to do to my child rather than endanger her like in your concept. You do what you like to your own children, if you have any.
It has nothing at all to do with the religious tensions over sacred land or anything. This is all new since 2001. There has never been bloodshed for the same bit of land before, it is all America's fault.
Downvote and move on if you agree
Downvote and move on if you agree
Does anyone think that tactic actually works? LOL! It's almost cute.
::: spoiler Mother Jones - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report)
Information for Mother Jones:
Not in modern America. Americans, for good reason, have a kneejerk negative reaction to the words "war in the middle east". A war with Iran before November would seal Harris's fate.
The rally 'round the flag effect isn't dependent on people agreeing with what the president is doing.
Not sure why you would think that..
The Iraq war gave W. a 20 point boost in his approval rating, it lasted for over half a year.
But that boost came because people were still feeling the need for revenge for 9/11 three years earlier. Also there was a hell of a lot of fear mongering and out right lies about Iraq that was being reported as facts from all the media at the time. So the American citizens had been primed for war and most wanted it.
There is always a lot of fear mongering and outright lies about everywhere the US doesn't like. Congress just passed a $1.6 billion of taxpayer money bill to push anti-China propaganda. I bet you didn't read about that via, your unbiased media
Are you paying attention to the media lately? Its filled with outright lies, warmongering, and bloodthirst.
Just like the lead up to the Iraq war.
Gee, maybe something happened in the 20 years since then that changed people's opinions on endless wars in the Middle East.
i think it is more likely that the opposite would happen. Anyone with two brain cells understands that there is nothing to gain for the US from it. Maybe for the MIC but certainly not for the average American who will have to deal with high oil prices, recession and possibly his son coming back in a coffin.
US MIC getting plenty of dollars to counterweigh china's military spending. Look they probably don't mind more, but they are having hard enough trouble filling orders as it is.
You think they care about the average American?
i would hope the average American cares about himself
They can be in the first wave then. Put your money where your mouth is.
The people who want this have their money in Raytheon and Halliburton. So, in a way, they are putting their money where their mouth is.
Beat me to it.
These people probably care as much about the ROI as anything else
I would argue that they care about the ROI more than anything else. Always has been
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Is_a_Racket
Gen-Z you thought we'd forgotten about you, but we managed to sort it out last minute! Enjoy your Middle East Theatre.
But hey, we might get a decent CoD or Battlefield game out of it in a couple of years.
That was BF 3 and it released like 13 years ago. While the trope was "US vs. Russia" the maps and campaign were situated mostly in Iran.
This is funny and I hate it.
AIPAC involved no doubt.
Blows me away that so many people ignore the unbelievable amount of influence AIPAC has, particularly in campaign season
AIPAC IS FRONT LINE AND CENTER. Leaked documents from start of the war show that a literal AIPAC lobbyist and now ambassador to Israel, Lew, kept arguing early in the war that Israel's subsequent campaign to wipe out Gaza would be "humanitarian."
That should be Bolton's epitaph. It's still wild to think he was one of the sanest voices in the Trump administration, especially when he was one of the craziest in the Bush administration.
I hope he burns in hell right next to Kissinger and Reagan.
Israel is the greatest threat to regional stability.
Everyone being surprised the US doesn't want a stable middle East: Insert surprised pikachu face.
I love how the article refers to Bolton as "famous war enjoyer". I hope that catches on.
As user @N0body@lemmy.dbzer0.com said, it should be on his tombstone.
Got problems at home? Time to Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran...
Got problems overseas? Time to Bomb Bomb Bomb, Bomb Bomb Iran...
Look how it easy it is to solve problems, when your ass isn't on the front lines! /s
If the only tool you have is a hammer...
It shows what a failed kind of people they are, both intellectually and ethically, if the only language they speak is violence.
Going into a war with Iran will set the entire region ablaze. The only thing the Iraq war did, was increasing influence for Iran. The only thing the Afghanistan war did, was a 20 year sabbatical for the Taliban.
The US surely can destroy major Iranian infrastructure like oil production and probably cripple its conventional military capabilities. But then what?
In the process Iran would destroy the oil production of US allied nations.
We would see years if not decades of Iraq style insurgencies.
Tens of millions if not hundreds of millions of people would become refugees, with the pressure on Europe easily having the potential to break the Union and turn the states into full blown fascist hellholes. Russia would use the distraction and the high oil price income to deliver the final blow to Ukraine.
China could feel emboldened or threatened to push for its military ambitions in the South China sea and Taiwan.
Justified hatred for the US in all of the Middle East would be ensured for another three generations to come.
The resulting global economic crisis would plunge large swaths of Americans and Europeans into poverty (and many more people around the world, that the West doesn't care for unfortunately).
Meanwhile i don't see anything positive coming out of it. I don't see how it would stabilize the region in the long run, help economic development or create conditions under which better diplomatic ties grow.
Yeah that sounds terrible and all however we forgot the best part. We finally got to bomb Iran!
Won't somebody think of the Military Industrial Complex's profits?
Remember when everyone was praising Bolton for going against Trump? This is why you don't simp too hard for people who have already shown who they are but happen to do one good thing.
Next: Liz Cheney.
I'd support every war if the first wave in was these old Republican fucks. Let Bolton storm the beaches.
I can't see the Democrats considering another unpopular war right now. Trump might, but I can only imagine what craziness that would look like. There's a non-zero chance he would ignore Israel and move assets to the Gulf states because they gargled his balls just right, or something. Or maybe he decides to do nukes.
If Netanyahu can get an open war between Israel and Iran before Jan 20th then Biden will absolutely commit ground forces to fighting that. Which is going to mean counter insurgency or even frontline work in Iraq again.
My god, would he? Even if that meant tanking the election? (If it's in the lame duck period after Nov. 5 that seems less crazy, I guess)
Time and again he has repeated their propaganda, even when our own intelligence agencies said Israel was lying. He always talks about a ceasefire, but every time Netanyahu moves the goalposts at the last minute, (usually by adding Hamas' known deal breaker that IDF troops would remain afterwards), Biden blames Hamas. Biden and Blinken have ignored evidence of war crimes from their own agencies that disqualify Israel for military aid. Now he's surged troops into the region, and he isn't using them to evacuate the 6,000 Americans who have asked for help leaving Lebanon.
Where does it stop? We think it has to just based on rationality but we made that mistake with Bush. We thought that a clear trial of the facts in Congress would either give him the moral authority to conduct the war or shut it all down and he just ignored that part of the AUMF. Like Biden has just ignored any evidence against Israel, even regarding the ICC. So I ask again, where does this train stop? What evidence do we have that he's working to restrain Netanyahu and prevent a wider war being kicked off by the obvious belligerent?
It's pretty clear he's not willing to actually punish them for anything. Sending ordinary American troops into a ground war for them is another thing entirely, though. Nobody's forgotten how the last ones went, and American democracy is already teetering on the brink.
And, y'know, that's not a ceasefire. Just thought I'd point that out.
It sure can be. It's one way to make sure it leads to a real peace process instead of Hamas giving up the remaining hostages and then getting nothing but a couple days of no fighting.
And yeah, that's why I'm worried. I'm not sure Biden realizes there's a line there. He's sure not doing anything to keep from approaching that line.
Yes.
He would.
Despite everything he has publicly stated he has continued to offer Israel support. His administration quietly greenlit the attacks and invasion of Lebanon.
As long as our own military is not directly involved as the conflict expands I believe the election prospects will be fine but it still pains me to see this happening.
And still Trump supporters tell me that Trump is the anti-war candidate and the Democrats always start wars. I guess they will blame the war with Iran on Biden, even though Trump pulled out of the Iran deal, antagonized the Palestinians, and did his best to start a war by assassinating generals. Let's not forget Bolton's "I'll celebrate with you in Tehran" speech.
Trump is shit, but Biden’s hands are not even close to clean in this situation. He has done everything he could to allow the situation to escalate and the war is starting in earnest on his watch.
Let’s all be honest here and recognize when our team is doing the wrong thing also.
Is it possible that the Democrats' hands are tied because the American public supports Israel and AIPAC has successfully primaried several progressive politicians?
I think they're in a tough spot politically, the left seems to think that support for Israel will cost the Democrats elections, but there's more evidence that if they do NOT support Israel strongly enough, it will cost them elections.
You're probably correct in that it is a balancing act with no real winners.
It's too bad so few seem to be able to see the nuances.
Right, because D-Day and Vietnam showed clearly that USA politicians never act against what the popular opinion dictates
When are they not?
A simple translation is that war is good for their business.
It's a real shame John McCain isn't here to lose the war he fought so hard to engineer.
It's all about the $$$$$$
Remember when people thought Trump was crazy for trying to go to war with Iran? Choosing the lesser evil everytime in "democratic" elections has got us to this.
Which candidate that has a chance of winning the election in November do you think Americans should vote for?
Neither. Leave it blank or vote green, even though they definitely won't win. Giving your vote to the Democrats now, from their perspective, means you're complacent enough to ignore an entire genocide. Your government is absolutely gonna use weapons and tactics against its populace that Israel has been doing.
And no, Trump doing more genocide isn't a valid argument.
Why bother voting at all if you're going to do that? What does it accomplish any more than staying home?
As the parent of a queer daughter, hard disagree.
You make it clear to the democrats you won't tolerate them adopting right wing policies and genocide.
Democrats have turned against migrants and queer people too. I'm sorry to say this, but the world is unsafe for queer people everywhere, including me.
If Trump wins democrats would get off their asses and try to block him. Instead they're now totally on board with building a functionless border wall, for example. Remember when people called Trump insane for doing that. Now here we are.
Vote for whoever you like, keep your family safe. Perhaps I'm the exception, but I will never feel safe again, regardless of who wins, and I'm Canadian.
No one is free until everyone is free.
Why would it make it clear to them now when it didn't make it clear to them any other time Jill Stein ran for president? When she has less support this time than she has previously? That is absolutely illogical.
You have no fucking idea what you're talking about. Republicans want to put my daughter in a fucking camp. Democrats do not.
Uhuh. It's only a matter of time with the democrats. If they're fine with mass murder of middle easterners, they can easily do the same with white queer people.
Regardless, I'm not interested in having an argument with some internet rando. I'll not reply going forward.
Your "internet rando" prediction of "it's only a matter of time" with Democrats vs. what they Republicans literally say they are going to do.
Yeah, think I'll go with stopping what people actually say they're going to do to my child rather than endanger her like in your concept. You do what you like to your own children, if you have any.
It has nothing at all to do with the religious tensions over sacred land or anything. This is all new since 2001. There has never been bloodshed for the same bit of land before, it is all America's fault.
Downvote and move on if you agree
Does anyone think that tactic actually works? LOL! It's almost cute.
::: spoiler Mother Jones - News Source Context (Click to view Full Report) Information for Mother Jones:
::: spoiler Search topics on Ground.News https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2024/10/stephens-bolton-neocons-bomb-iran-middle-east-israel-war/ ::: Media Bias Fact Check | bot support
Maybe Harris and Biden want to start a war so they can benefit from a spike in approval just before the election.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rally_'round_the_flag_effect
Not in modern America. Americans, for good reason, have a kneejerk negative reaction to the words "war in the middle east". A war with Iran before November would seal Harris's fate.
The rally 'round the flag effect isn't dependent on people agreeing with what the president is doing.
Not sure why you would think that..
The Iraq war gave W. a 20 point boost in his approval rating, it lasted for over half a year.
But that boost came because people were still feeling the need for revenge for 9/11 three years earlier. Also there was a hell of a lot of fear mongering and out right lies about Iraq that was being reported as facts from all the media at the time. So the American citizens had been primed for war and most wanted it.
There is always a lot of fear mongering and outright lies about everywhere the US doesn't like. Congress just passed a $1.6 billion of taxpayer money bill to push anti-China propaganda. I bet you didn't read about that via, your unbiased media
Are you paying attention to the media lately? Its filled with outright lies, warmongering, and bloodthirst.
Just like the lead up to the Iraq war.
Gee, maybe something happened in the 20 years since then that changed people's opinions on endless wars in the Middle East.
i think it is more likely that the opposite would happen. Anyone with two brain cells understands that there is nothing to gain for the US from it. Maybe for the MIC but certainly not for the average American who will have to deal with high oil prices, recession and possibly his son coming back in a coffin.
US MIC getting plenty of dollars to counterweigh china's military spending. Look they probably don't mind more, but they are having hard enough trouble filling orders as it is.
You think they care about the average American?
i would hope the average American cares about himself