Lol this group is like “doesn’t matter” all of a sudden.
Wish I had the energy to go back to the old threads and reply to all the “IDF is lying” comments.
I guess you would have a point if Israel didn't routinely bomb civilians and didn't routinely lie about it.
They don't routinely lie about it. They pre-drop little fliers that say "we're about to bomb here; if you don't want to die you better leave" and then they come back in a couple of days or weeks and bomb. What on Earth would they lie about? "Wow, a bomb went off right where we dropped leaflets saying it would, but it definitely wasn't us."
The only bombing they actually did lie about is this one, where Hamas beefed a rocket launch and struck one of their own hospitals and Israel said "yeah, we were active in the zone" before anyone knew it wasn't an Israeli weapon.
I've never understood how dropping a flyer on someone's house letting them know they're going to be bombed stops Hamas. What's stopping Hamas from fleeing as soon as they see the flyer?
The only person then impacted by the bombing is the guy whose house you bombed.
They are bombing areas where intelligence gather puts Hamas activity, safe houses and other assets that can't easily be relocated. If Hamas tries to move military equipment,IDF is watching the area to strike when they come out in the open. If nobody leaves they strike the area as planned.
If you knew your neighbor had a rocket launch system in his basement they you personally saw him firing off towards a nearby city, and for reasons we won't discuss decided not to inform the authorities, and then one day woke up to your street being blanketed with fliers saying bombs were going to strike the location because of militant activity why would you stay?
Almost like it's not actually designed to stop them
They're willing to accept a lower success rate for a lower civilian casualty rate - isn't that exactly what you want?
Riiight... the genocidal mass-murderers (supposedly) wants a "lower civilian casualty rate."
Riiight.
Perhaps the "genocidal mass murderers" is the part in error
Perhaps the “genocidal mass murderers” is the part in error
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - I take it you have some?
Lol sure. Palestinians will exist 5 years from now because this isn't genocide.
Oh, look... genocide denial from fascist sympathizers.
"I'm going to rob your house and shoot all your family in 2 hrs okay?" I know you are innocent people that's why I told you I'll kill you in few hours /s . Wtf is this logic in first place!? It's terrorism.
Plus, so many kids and families died under these bombs and found cut up under rubbles because Israel doesn't even do that any more. Even before the war, they used to tell hospitals and huge residential buildings to evacuate in 1-2 hrs or be bombed. I can't even get up to work in 1 hr notice let alone evacuate a house or a full building.
"I'm going to rob your house and shoot all your family in 2 hrs okay?"
They're not going to rob it; they're going to fucking bomb it, to achieve a military objective in a theater of war.
It really sucks that your house is in a theater of war! It's likely to be destroyed by the army you're at war with. War has really unfortunate knock-on effects; I recommend not starting a war of extermination against your neighbors.
Plus, so many kids and families died under these bombs and found cut up under rubbles because Israel doesn't even do that any more.
You absolutely could evacuate your house in an hour; Israel gives weeks. The huddle under the bombs regardless because they wish to die.
They pre-drop little fliers that say “we’re about to bomb here; if you don’t want to die you better leave” and then they come back in a couple of days or weeks and bomb.
They used to do that. They aren't in this war.
No, they're still doing it. The flyers have been on social media, even.
This was from a week after Hamas started this war massacring civilians at a music festival and torturing survivors. They are still dropping fliers. Palestinian just refuse to acknowledge anything.
They're only occasionally doing them, and when they did they sometimes lead people to bombing locations.
They actually dropped flyers for people to go to a refugee camp. The people who listened and went to the refugee camp then got bombed by israel in the camp.
The fact you're getting downvoted so much is just another reminder how feelings matters more than facts to certain groups of people.
All sides in this war suck but the constant dogpiling against Israel when Hamas uses child labor to dig their tunnels is telling of how people view this conflict.
They're being downvoted is because Israel was caught lying about it. Multiple times. And because Israel has bombed places without dropping flyers (or dropping flyers with wrong information) many times in this war.
But they don't have to drop flyers at all! Indeed they probably shouldn't, in the hopes of catching Hamas by surprise. But even after Oct 7th they're trying as hard as they practically can to keep civilian casualties to a minimum even though they could end the war against Hamas a lot faster, and with fewer Israeli casualties, if they didn't.
Israeli Jews are bleeding in the streets to keep Gazans safe, and their repayment is unabated, universal antisemitism among Gazans. Incredible. Is there a more ungrateful people in existence than the Palestinians?
What the fuck is wrong with you? I refuse to even engage with this, but like seriously, you should reflect on what you just said.
It’s wild seeing astroturfing from these accounts. That and the total dehumanization of Palestinians.
Nothing's "wrong" with me. I'm telling you what is obviously true. Israel is fighting to preserve human life against enemies that completely disregard it.
No thinking person can look at what's going on in Gaza and disagree. I don't see how that's even possible.
First it was obviously Israel that purposefully fired at the hospital and a huge deal, then it slowly changed to "doesn't matter, it's Israel's fault anyway for starting the war".
It's incredible
Younger generation totally fine with Hamas attacking civilians but angry that Israel retaliated and attacked sites that launched rockets is pretty astounding.
All up in arms that Palestinians are dying but not once asking why all the Palestinians were fine with Hamas digging tunnels and hiding military equipment in their backyards.
No one is fine with Hamas causing the death of 1200 Israelis, and everyone called them terrorist organization that chose violence instead of diplomacy after being hopelessly seized for decades in an open-air prison. Similarly, Israel killed 13000+ which were mostly civilians including 5000+ children. How do you not understand that killing civilians is terrorism just like Hamas did? How do you not understand Israel kills more than 10 for every 1 Israeli killed? How do you not understand those humans have been living under oppressive occupying apartheid regime which generated those groups that chose violence? while Israel is the legitimized government supported by the world strongest countries which commits war crimes? On every type and magnitude of comparison, the IDF and Israel genocidal right wing government has committed more war crimes and are more evil than Hamas. The only solution is be a rational human and admit that they both should go. There will be no justice and Israel will still remain an oppressive occupying apartheid if Hamas disappeared and Israel government stayed the same.
The death toll is tragic but the primary difference is that Hamas intentionally puts people in harms way, whether it actively taking human shields or passively by ensuring they operate in densely populated areas so any retaliation against them will have collateral damage. Palestinians know how Hamas operates, but do nothing about it and often give up some measure of support.
If there was no Hamas, or at least a Hamas that gave a shit about the people they supposedly represent, the death toll of this conflict would be a small faction of what it is. And Israel doesn't have the luxury of ignoring Hamas targets that intentionally surround themselves with noncombatants, because the next week 10 more just like it will pop up and cause even more death and destruction. And all the violence Hamas causes makes it harder for the international community to do anything to demilitarize Israel because the right to self defense. All Hamas has to do is toss away their weapons and blend back into the community or return to their homelands, as much like the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, much of their membership comes from other territories in the middle east with very few actually native Palestinians. Compare to Israel, who any attempt at disarmament would be taken advantage of by Hamas to carry out their very vocal desire to genocide all of Israel.
So your suggestion is that Israel should just roll over and die, or 100% of their population emigrate somewhere else? Who would take them? Where would they go? They have no other options save fight for their right to exist.
Show this comment to your IDF supervisor so he knows you're working well spreading debunked bullshit. I can literally disaprove every line you used in your arguments from using civilians as shields, to Israel targeting Hamas yet over %70 of deaths were women and children, to the lies of palestinians rejecting to have their own state, to if Hamas was gone there will be peace but Israel would still remain an ethnix xlensing aprthied,.., to their end goal of killing every jew while Israel is the one with that exact propaganda and is the one actually doing it... I don't have time. You want to be a genocidal nazi at least just admit it so we know how to talk with you but I cannot argue when you bring me lies and bullshit about how good people these occupying aparthied children-killer IDF are. The facts show that the IDF are genocidal terrorists worse than Hamas and only evil Arab dictatorships are siding with them.
Everyone is asking for less bloodshed and no more killing civilians. Israel killed more civilians in this last war than Russia and Ukraine war. They dropped more bombs than the US did on Afganistan and Iraq. You have 1% accuracy killing 100 civilians every time you kill 1 Hamas member. What right to defend is that? Get off your airplanes and fight them man to man on the ground you child-murdering genocidal cowards. And what type of war does a nation have where on the first day they can cut fuel, water, elctricity and food from the people they're fighting and they call this war? Right to exist doesn't mean occupying illegal lands, killing and ethnic clensing people of where in the country before you. Israel government are gusting inhumane terrorirsts.
You're right. The Israeli and US governments were telling the truth, for once. I bet that left a bad taste in their mouths.
Better wash out that taste by bombing some more little kids.
Now that Israel just openly declares it is bombing and invading hospitals, the fog of war bullshit really doesn't matter anymore.
Maybe this one hospital strike was a rocket. What about all the other ones?
Yeah, so maybe you're right, maybe I did steal money from your purse, push grandma down the stairs when she got in my way, left the milk out over night, shit in Dad's shoes while high on meth, smoked crack in the alley, slapped all my cousins alphabetically, poured cocaine on the dog, but I swear, I didn't smoke crack in my bedroom and I don't like being accused of things I didn't do!
My understanding is this lie was used by Hamas to isolate Israel from Arab nations where much of the public was frankly horrified by the brutal violence Hamas had aimed specifically at civilians. So no, it wasn't just "the one relatively inconsequential thing," it is a lie that has had serious consequences.
It's also a large part of why people believe everything Hamas says (e.g. death tolls) while also refusing to believe anything Israel says.
The reason people believe Gazan death tolls is that they're found to be reliable by almost every organization working in the region. And the reason most people refuse to believe what Israel says without confirmation is because they've been caught lying on multiple occasions, many times going as far as fabricating evidence (remember the Al-Shifa calendar)?
They're "found reliable", but not actually checked. Like, nobody actually checks Hamas' numbers; they just "confirm" them.
Confirming numbers comes from actually checking them.
Pedanticism isn't a good look.
They don't, though. Check. They can't. No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. They know that Hamas can rescind whatever meager access they have, and so they figure that humanitarian purpose is better satisfied by preserving access by not angering Hamas.
But they don't have access to strike sites, they don't have access to morgues. Islam requires the dead be buried by nightfall, so there's simply no opportunity for independent observers to actually verify body counts. They're just demographically "verified" - "oh, we know about that many people lived in the apartment block, so X is a plausible figure for deaths." But that's not confirmation.
No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control.
Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right?
This is one of the few both-sides arguments that can be legitimately made.
Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven't had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years and a number of elected officials are in Israeli jails.
Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven’t had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years
since Hamas took over
Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now.
I thought that would be self-evident.
Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right?
Kind of the opposite, in fact? The IDF brought in independent journalists to the tunnels, proving that they'd been right about them all along.
Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right?
Okay, so explain this: why would Israel lie about the tunnels? It makes perfect sense that Hamas would operate largely in tunnels including under vital infrastructure, tunnels are used for smuggling in other places around the world, and bringing the IDF into hospitals is a huge headache in terms of PR. So what's in it for Israel?
This is the entire reason for the 10/7 attack. Israel is normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia and this was a planned and timed move by Hamas to try to stop that.
It did not work.
Considering the fact that Israel is now bombing and invading every hospital, what difference does it make?
If this was a lie then it was only a lie by a few weeks. Israel has fulfilled every accusation that Hamas has made.
Purged by creator
The truth matters for the historical record, but it wasn't a lie like the other poster said; it was at worst a false conclusion. Instead of treating this like a reasonable mistake, though, they're cooking up conspiracy theories to assign malicious intent to what is pretty clearly just a result of the fog of war.
If it was a mistake. I'm reserving judgement until there's an actual forensic investigation and a truth-and-reconcilliation commission for Israel's crimes.
Purged by creator
People do not need excuses to accuse something of being fake news. Also, there really weren't a lot of reporters that actually reported this as an Israeli airstrike - they mostly just reported about the claims that were being made of an Israeli airstrike, but tried to stay neutral.
Though yes, some jumped to conclusions. Reasonable conclusions in my opinion, but that's bad reporting.
But if truth matters, then we shouldn't react to bad reporting with wild and speculative claims about people lying to make Israel look bad.
So glad the world's #1 childkillers didn't kill these particular kids. Props to the IDF and the Israeli government for not killing these specific people for no reason.
HRW may very well be right here, but if the only investigation the police does after a homicide is talk to some witnesses... but you know, never actually check for fingerprints, or in this case... analyze fragments from the rocket, then I'm not going to go all in and say that they've done much of a report. How convenient that people act like this is all the proof they need without even reading what they actually examined.
Why would the Jews do this?
They didn't you dickhead.
Yes, that's the joke
Not funny.
Yeah, I don't believe it. How would they know what happened? Were they out there with Hamas firing rockets?
That would make them... well, you know. Communists
Who the hell cares, Israel has killed a whole lot more innocent people, including thousands of fucking children. The Israeli government is a bunch of genociders.
People seemed to care a lot when they thought it was Israel's fault.
It was justified to think it was Israel, because they bombed that exact hospital before, and many others. And it's still a terrible thing because people died. But let's remember that this single event is a small compared to the rest of the genocide Israel is doing to Palestinians.
It was justified to think it was Israel, because they bombed that exact hospital before, and many others.
The Archbishop has called for Israel’s evacuation order on Gaza’s hospitals to be reversed. His call comes as an Anglican-run hospital in Gaza was struck by Israeli rocket fire last night.
That Anglican-run hospital is the one from the OP btw.
Yeah, what's your point?
It wasn't struck by Israelis.
I was talking about this particular point of the article:
"The Ahli Hospital was hit by Israeli rocket fire last night, with four staff injured in the blast. Other hospitals have also been hit."
Which was the same Ahli Hospital that we're talking about originally.
Because the truth and facts matter when discussing moral responsibility. It doesn't absolve Israel of other acts of war harming civilians. But this matters when discussing Hamas's responsibility over the death of Gaza civilians.
You will all nitpick minor details and put those who are oppressed (the Palestinians) over hot fiery coals for being potentially wrong whilst never laying a single ounce of doubt or blame on Israel, the ones conducting a god damn ethnic cleansing. I'm sorry I don't really care about arguing over this one specific instance of horror, (that which I never personally said was Israels fault by the way) when there are many thousands upon thousands of other instances that Israel boasts about murdering innocent people.
Nitpick all you want, but all of you are just pathetic if this is the tiny sad ant hill you die on while real people die.
Don't you bother to ask what happened to 1000 misfired rockets from Gaza?
(1200 something confirmed misfires from IDF, and almost 800 something from a twitch streaming bots that were scraping al Jazeera cams etc, some independent new reports on these too). Let's just say 200 rockets, don't you wonder where they landed and what happened?
And the amount of rockets fired by anyone in Gaza is nothing compared to the sheer destruction Israel does.
No, I'm not talking about missiles from Gaza to Israel. I'm talking about Hamas missiles that fell in Gaza. Recently they have reached over 10k launches towards Israel, doesn't that make you curious to know how much destruction they caused themselves?
Israel's Iron Dome takes care of the vast majority of Hamas rockets, as almost every report out of Israel can verify.
I know, it's pretty badass to see it live..
My question was about misfired Hamas rockets that fell into Gaza. And how much destruction did that cause.
I'm sure you could look up the statistics somewhere.
Yes, but it's weird that it's completely out of the picture isn't it?
Because it's nothing compared to the destruction wrought by Israel on Gaza. It's not enough to matter and focuses on the wrong things. Of course genocide apologists would love to focus on anything but the genocide.
It's a war mate, Israel doesn't have to do anything to protect "Gazans" and yet they do out of their ways to do so. Please get informed on this.. there are few IDF people or ex-Hamas guys who can tell you how war goes.
It's ugly, but 15k killed with 0 Hamas seems like a set up no? Regardless, it's not my fight.
I'm gonna go now and rest.. but please keep your mind open and don't fill your heart with hatred.
Peace
You're justifying thousands of deaths, including mostly children. It's not a war, it's a slaughter against a mostly civilian populace to justify taking out a terrorist group they propped up themselves and continue to inflame with policies like kicking them out of their homes, the blockade, restricting their aid and food and trade, controlling their air and water space, controlling their trash, electricity, and now they've been trying to control oil found on their land.
May I suggest you don't fill your heart with hatred and learn to have some empathy for civilians that look different than you or speak different than you?
Yup, I hope you do the same.
Peace
0.5% is a terrible genocide.
I'm sorry, do we have to wait for them to finish? We know their intentions, Israeli officials say it plainly, that they want to remove them all, make it uninhabitable where they live. That is the act of genocide, you piece of garbage.
We know their intentions, Israeli officials say it plainly
I thought they only lied though. I guess you can always pick and choose which parts you believe.
They do lie, they lie all the time. Yet when they talk about their bloodthirst for genocide, dumb motherfuckers like you say, "oh haha that's so funny they're just kidding!" Y'all stupid shits of course only believe lies. Talk about picking and fuckin choosing, my god you hypocrite.
1 in 200 people. Yeah it definitely is.
Well, according to al jazeera they dropped 6000 bombs - 4000 tonnes - from Oct 7 - Oct 12.
As of 2nd Nov the number was 25000 tonnes. Let's say that's 25000 bombs.
Pretty terrible death rate for that number considering the options available.
This motherfucker wants more innocent people killed, wow. Genocider.
Nah it's a pretty good start, especially since they're using the deaths to kick everyone out of their homes into smaller and smaller areas, or forcing them into other countries. It's how the genocide on native populations has worked everywhere else, too, so we already know the playbook.
It's how the genocide on native populations has worked everywhere else, too, so we already know the playbook.
Such as?
Also, what's your definition of native?
This MFer wants to say Palestinians aren't natives of Palestine WTF. Bruh if you care about history from 2000 years ago that much you should read it.
I'm mostly talking in the US, Canada, Australia, South Africa, places in the modern period that have used settler colonialism to displace and destroy indigenous populations.
As for the playbook, generally it's you move a big population in at once, set up shop, take over, tell any locals to move over and enforce it with violence, use a treaty to keep the land and move them over permanently. Then, individuals slowly expand to their land, sometimes rogue, but usually supported by the government either way. They push the boundaries of the "given land" or take resources from it, the native population plea for help is ignored until they push back with violence, the colonizers retaliate with overwhelming force, enough to keep the land settlers have been slowly taking anyway and probably take more, the populations are displaced more, either put in a smaller box or forced to move over again. Repeat.
And God help them if there's resources revealed to be in their area, like oil.
Lol this group is like “doesn’t matter” all of a sudden.
Wish I had the energy to go back to the old threads and reply to all the “IDF is lying” comments.
I guess you would have a point if Israel didn't routinely bomb civilians and didn't routinely lie about it.
They don't routinely lie about it. They pre-drop little fliers that say "we're about to bomb here; if you don't want to die you better leave" and then they come back in a couple of days or weeks and bomb. What on Earth would they lie about? "Wow, a bomb went off right where we dropped leaflets saying it would, but it definitely wasn't us."
The only bombing they actually did lie about is this one, where Hamas beefed a rocket launch and struck one of their own hospitals and Israel said "yeah, we were active in the zone" before anyone knew it wasn't an Israeli weapon.
I've never understood how dropping a flyer on someone's house letting them know they're going to be bombed stops Hamas. What's stopping Hamas from fleeing as soon as they see the flyer?
The only person then impacted by the bombing is the guy whose house you bombed.
They are bombing areas where intelligence gather puts Hamas activity, safe houses and other assets that can't easily be relocated. If Hamas tries to move military equipment,IDF is watching the area to strike when they come out in the open. If nobody leaves they strike the area as planned.
If you knew your neighbor had a rocket launch system in his basement they you personally saw him firing off towards a nearby city, and for reasons we won't discuss decided not to inform the authorities, and then one day woke up to your street being blanketed with fliers saying bombs were going to strike the location because of militant activity why would you stay?
Almost like it's not actually designed to stop them
They're willing to accept a lower success rate for a lower civilian casualty rate - isn't that exactly what you want?
Riiight... the genocidal mass-murderers (supposedly) wants a "lower civilian casualty rate."
Riiight.
Perhaps the "genocidal mass murderers" is the part in error
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence - I take it you have some?
Lol sure. Palestinians will exist 5 years from now because this isn't genocide.
Oh, look... genocide denial from fascist sympathizers.
Do they make you in a factory somewhere?
What?
Don't "what" me, apologist.
So they just want to destroy civilian property.
There are significantly easier and less expensive ways to do that, so this seems unlikely
3 billion in free money is pretty cheap for Israel.
You can't move a tunnel entrance. Hamas can run away, but they're still going to get a building collapsed on top of the tunnel entrance.
Even Hamas admits to the existence of the tunnels. If it's to prove they exist I'm not sure what more proof we need.
Did you reply to the wrong comment? Or something?
"I'm going to rob your house and shoot all your family in 2 hrs okay?" I know you are innocent people that's why I told you I'll kill you in few hours /s . Wtf is this logic in first place!? It's terrorism.
Plus, so many kids and families died under these bombs and found cut up under rubbles because Israel doesn't even do that any more. Even before the war, they used to tell hospitals and huge residential buildings to evacuate in 1-2 hrs or be bombed. I can't even get up to work in 1 hr notice let alone evacuate a house or a full building.
They're not going to rob it; they're going to fucking bomb it, to achieve a military objective in a theater of war.
It really sucks that your house is in a theater of war! It's likely to be destroyed by the army you're at war with. War has really unfortunate knock-on effects; I recommend not starting a war of extermination against your neighbors.
They still do it; it's just that Palestinians would rather die and kill their entire families in Israeli bombing than preserve life. Palestinians believe their lives are without value unless they're dying to kill Jews.
The only explanation for why Palestinians continue to huddle under bombs they're warned are coming is that they believe human life, including their own, is valueless. It's a sick culture, a death cult, and Israel is defending itself against it.
You absolutely could evacuate your house in an hour; Israel gives weeks. The huddle under the bombs regardless because they wish to die.
They used to do that. They aren't in this war.
No, they're still doing it. The flyers have been on social media, even.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=btLtYVZFlPI
This was from a week after Hamas started this war massacring civilians at a music festival and torturing survivors. They are still dropping fliers. Palestinian just refuse to acknowledge anything.
They're only occasionally doing them, and when they did they sometimes lead people to bombing locations.
They actually dropped flyers for people to go to a refugee camp. The people who listened and went to the refugee camp then got bombed by israel in the camp.
The fact you're getting downvoted so much is just another reminder how feelings matters more than facts to certain groups of people.
All sides in this war suck but the constant dogpiling against Israel when Hamas uses child labor to dig their tunnels is telling of how people view this conflict.
They're being downvoted is because Israel was caught lying about it. Multiple times. And because Israel has bombed places without dropping flyers (or dropping flyers with wrong information) many times in this war.
But they don't have to drop flyers at all! Indeed they probably shouldn't, in the hopes of catching Hamas by surprise. But even after Oct 7th they're trying as hard as they practically can to keep civilian casualties to a minimum even though they could end the war against Hamas a lot faster, and with fewer Israeli casualties, if they didn't.
Israeli Jews are bleeding in the streets to keep Gazans safe, and their repayment is unabated, universal antisemitism among Gazans. Incredible. Is there a more ungrateful people in existence than the Palestinians?
What the fuck is wrong with you? I refuse to even engage with this, but like seriously, you should reflect on what you just said.
It’s wild seeing astroturfing from these accounts. That and the total dehumanization of Palestinians.
Nothing's "wrong" with me. I'm telling you what is obviously true. Israel is fighting to preserve human life against enemies that completely disregard it.
No thinking person can look at what's going on in Gaza and disagree. I don't see how that's even possible.
First it was obviously Israel that purposefully fired at the hospital and a huge deal, then it slowly changed to "doesn't matter, it's Israel's fault anyway for starting the war".
It's incredible
Younger generation totally fine with Hamas attacking civilians but angry that Israel retaliated and attacked sites that launched rockets is pretty astounding.
All up in arms that Palestinians are dying but not once asking why all the Palestinians were fine with Hamas digging tunnels and hiding military equipment in their backyards.
No one is fine with Hamas causing the death of 1200 Israelis, and everyone called them terrorist organization that chose violence instead of diplomacy after being hopelessly seized for decades in an open-air prison. Similarly, Israel killed 13000+ which were mostly civilians including 5000+ children. How do you not understand that killing civilians is terrorism just like Hamas did? How do you not understand Israel kills more than 10 for every 1 Israeli killed? How do you not understand those humans have been living under oppressive occupying apartheid regime which generated those groups that chose violence? while Israel is the legitimized government supported by the world strongest countries which commits war crimes? On every type and magnitude of comparison, the IDF and Israel genocidal right wing government has committed more war crimes and are more evil than Hamas. The only solution is be a rational human and admit that they both should go. There will be no justice and Israel will still remain an oppressive occupying apartheid if Hamas disappeared and Israel government stayed the same.
The death toll is tragic but the primary difference is that Hamas intentionally puts people in harms way, whether it actively taking human shields or passively by ensuring they operate in densely populated areas so any retaliation against them will have collateral damage. Palestinians know how Hamas operates, but do nothing about it and often give up some measure of support.
IDF's campaign has been reckless but they can at least put for evidence they were targeting Hamas assets. Hamas on the other hand specifically targets civilians because they want a high death count, they don't care if they actually inflict damage to the IDF because their entire goal is try to create enough civil unrest that every palestinian will take up arms and riot until Israel ceases to exist. If Hamas actually cared about the Palestinian people, they wouldn't operate the way they would, they would not have used child labor to build their tunnels, and they would not be using human shields and otherwise encouraging palestinians noncombatants to gather in areas they operate.
If there was no Hamas, or at least a Hamas that gave a shit about the people they supposedly represent, the death toll of this conflict would be a small faction of what it is. And Israel doesn't have the luxury of ignoring Hamas targets that intentionally surround themselves with noncombatants, because the next week 10 more just like it will pop up and cause even more death and destruction. And all the violence Hamas causes makes it harder for the international community to do anything to demilitarize Israel because the right to self defense. All Hamas has to do is toss away their weapons and blend back into the community or return to their homelands, as much like the insurgency in Iraq and Afghanistan, much of their membership comes from other territories in the middle east with very few actually native Palestinians. Compare to Israel, who any attempt at disarmament would be taken advantage of by Hamas to carry out their very vocal desire to genocide all of Israel.
So your suggestion is that Israel should just roll over and die, or 100% of their population emigrate somewhere else? Who would take them? Where would they go? They have no other options save fight for their right to exist.
Show this comment to your IDF supervisor so he knows you're working well spreading debunked bullshit. I can literally disaprove every line you used in your arguments from using civilians as shields, to Israel targeting Hamas yet over %70 of deaths were women and children, to the lies of palestinians rejecting to have their own state, to if Hamas was gone there will be peace but Israel would still remain an ethnix xlensing aprthied,.., to their end goal of killing every jew while Israel is the one with that exact propaganda and is the one actually doing it... I don't have time. You want to be a genocidal nazi at least just admit it so we know how to talk with you but I cannot argue when you bring me lies and bullshit about how good people these occupying aparthied children-killer IDF are. The facts show that the IDF are genocidal terrorists worse than Hamas and only evil Arab dictatorships are siding with them.
Everyone is asking for less bloodshed and no more killing civilians. Israel killed more civilians in this last war than Russia and Ukraine war. They dropped more bombs than the US did on Afganistan and Iraq. You have 1% accuracy killing 100 civilians every time you kill 1 Hamas member. What right to defend is that? Get off your airplanes and fight them man to man on the ground you child-murdering genocidal cowards. And what type of war does a nation have where on the first day they can cut fuel, water, elctricity and food from the people they're fighting and they call this war? Right to exist doesn't mean occupying illegal lands, killing and ethnic clensing people of where in the country before you. Israel government are gusting inhumane terrorirsts.
You're right. The Israeli and US governments were telling the truth, for once. I bet that left a bad taste in their mouths.
Better wash out that taste by bombing some more little kids.
Now that Israel just openly declares it is bombing and invading hospitals, the fog of war bullshit really doesn't matter anymore.
Maybe this one hospital strike was a rocket. What about all the other ones?
Yeah, so maybe you're right, maybe I did steal money from your purse, push grandma down the stairs when she got in my way, left the milk out over night, shit in Dad's shoes while high on meth, smoked crack in the alley, slapped all my cousins alphabetically, poured cocaine on the dog, but I swear, I didn't smoke crack in my bedroom and I don't like being accused of things I didn't do!
My understanding is this lie was used by Hamas to isolate Israel from Arab nations where much of the public was frankly horrified by the brutal violence Hamas had aimed specifically at civilians. So no, it wasn't just "the one relatively inconsequential thing," it is a lie that has had serious consequences.
It's also a large part of why people believe everything Hamas says (e.g. death tolls) while also refusing to believe anything Israel says.
The reason people believe Gazan death tolls is that they're found to be reliable by almost every organization working in the region. And the reason most people refuse to believe what Israel says without confirmation is because they've been caught lying on multiple occasions, many times going as far as fabricating evidence (remember the Al-Shifa calendar)?
They're "found reliable", but not actually checked. Like, nobody actually checks Hamas' numbers; they just "confirm" them.
Confirming numbers comes from actually checking them.
Pedanticism isn't a good look.
They don't, though. Check. They can't. No independent body can operate freely in Gaza, it's under Hamas control. They know that Hamas can rescind whatever meager access they have, and so they figure that humanitarian purpose is better satisfied by preserving access by not angering Hamas.
But they don't have access to strike sites, they don't have access to morgues. Islam requires the dead be buried by nightfall, so there's simply no opportunity for independent observers to actually verify body counts. They're just demographically "verified" - "oh, we know about that many people lived in the apartment block, so X is a plausible figure for deaths." But that's not confirmation.
Kind of like no independent journalists can investigate in Gaza about Israeli-built tunnels under a hospital under IDF control, right?
This is one of the few both-sides arguments that can be legitimately made.
Never mind the fact that Palestinians haven't had an election in Gaza in almost 20 years and a number of elected officials are in Israeli jails.
since Hamas took over
Well ofc since Hamas was elected since Hamas is the ruling party now.
I thought that would be self-evident.
Kind of the opposite, in fact? The IDF brought in independent journalists to the tunnels, proving that they'd been right about them all along.
Okay, so explain this: why would Israel lie about the tunnels? It makes perfect sense that Hamas would operate largely in tunnels including under vital infrastructure, tunnels are used for smuggling in other places around the world, and bringing the IDF into hospitals is a huge headache in terms of PR. So what's in it for Israel?
This is the entire reason for the 10/7 attack. Israel is normalizing relations with Saudi Arabia and this was a planned and timed move by Hamas to try to stop that.
It did not work.
Considering the fact that Israel is now bombing and invading every hospital, what difference does it make?
If this was a lie then it was only a lie by a few weeks. Israel has fulfilled every accusation that Hamas has made.
Purged by creator
The truth matters for the historical record, but it wasn't a lie like the other poster said; it was at worst a false conclusion. Instead of treating this like a reasonable mistake, though, they're cooking up conspiracy theories to assign malicious intent to what is pretty clearly just a result of the fog of war.
If it was a mistake. I'm reserving judgement until there's an actual forensic investigation and a truth-and-reconcilliation commission for Israel's crimes.
Purged by creator
People do not need excuses to accuse something of being fake news. Also, there really weren't a lot of reporters that actually reported this as an Israeli airstrike - they mostly just reported about the claims that were being made of an Israeli airstrike, but tried to stay neutral.
Though yes, some jumped to conclusions. Reasonable conclusions in my opinion, but that's bad reporting.
But if truth matters, then we shouldn't react to bad reporting with wild and speculative claims about people lying to make Israel look bad.
Purged by creator
What other ones, specifically?
So glad the world's #1 childkillers didn't kill these particular kids. Props to the IDF and the Israeli government for not killing these specific people for no reason.
HRW may very well be right here, but if the only investigation the police does after a homicide is talk to some witnesses... but you know, never actually check for fingerprints, or in this case... analyze fragments from the rocket, then I'm not going to go all in and say that they've done much of a report. How convenient that people act like this is all the proof they need without even reading what they actually examined.
Why would the Jews do this?
They didn't you dickhead.
Yes, that's the joke
Not funny.
Yeah, I don't believe it. How would they know what happened? Were they out there with Hamas firing rockets?
That would make them... well, you know. Communists
Who the hell cares, Israel has killed a whole lot more innocent people, including thousands of fucking children. The Israeli government is a bunch of genociders.
People seemed to care a lot when they thought it was Israel's fault.
It was justified to think it was Israel, because they bombed that exact hospital before, and many others. And it's still a terrible thing because people died. But let's remember that this single event is a small compared to the rest of the genocide Israel is doing to Palestinians.
Source?
3 days before: https://www.archbishopofcanterbury.org/news/news-and-statements/gaza-hospitals-are-facing-catastrophe-says-archbishop-canterbury
By October 12th, they had hit multiple ambulances and health facilities: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/war-crime-gaza-medics-say-israel-targeting-ambulances-health-facilities
That Anglican-run hospital is the one from the OP btw.
Yeah, what's your point?
It wasn't struck by Israelis.
I was talking about this particular point of the article: "The Ahli Hospital was hit by Israeli rocket fire last night, with four staff injured in the blast. Other hospitals have also been hit." Which was the same Ahli Hospital that we're talking about originally.
Because the truth and facts matter when discussing moral responsibility. It doesn't absolve Israel of other acts of war harming civilians. But this matters when discussing Hamas's responsibility over the death of Gaza civilians.
You will all nitpick minor details and put those who are oppressed (the Palestinians) over hot fiery coals for being potentially wrong whilst never laying a single ounce of doubt or blame on Israel, the ones conducting a god damn ethnic cleansing. I'm sorry I don't really care about arguing over this one specific instance of horror, (that which I never personally said was Israels fault by the way) when there are many thousands upon thousands of other instances that Israel boasts about murdering innocent people.
Nitpick all you want, but all of you are just pathetic if this is the tiny sad ant hill you die on while real people die.
Don't you bother to ask what happened to 1000 misfired rockets from Gaza?
(1200 something confirmed misfires from IDF, and almost 800 something from a twitch streaming bots that were scraping al Jazeera cams etc, some independent new reports on these too). Let's just say 200 rockets, don't you wonder where they landed and what happened?
And the amount of rockets fired by anyone in Gaza is nothing compared to the sheer destruction Israel does.
No, I'm not talking about missiles from Gaza to Israel. I'm talking about Hamas missiles that fell in Gaza. Recently they have reached over 10k launches towards Israel, doesn't that make you curious to know how much destruction they caused themselves?
Israel's Iron Dome takes care of the vast majority of Hamas rockets, as almost every report out of Israel can verify.
I know, it's pretty badass to see it live.. My question was about misfired Hamas rockets that fell into Gaza. And how much destruction did that cause.
I'm sure you could look up the statistics somewhere.
Yes, but it's weird that it's completely out of the picture isn't it?
Because it's nothing compared to the destruction wrought by Israel on Gaza. It's not enough to matter and focuses on the wrong things. Of course genocide apologists would love to focus on anything but the genocide.
It's a war mate, Israel doesn't have to do anything to protect "Gazans" and yet they do out of their ways to do so. Please get informed on this.. there are few IDF people or ex-Hamas guys who can tell you how war goes. It's ugly, but 15k killed with 0 Hamas seems like a set up no? Regardless, it's not my fight. I'm gonna go now and rest.. but please keep your mind open and don't fill your heart with hatred.
Peace
You're justifying thousands of deaths, including mostly children. It's not a war, it's a slaughter against a mostly civilian populace to justify taking out a terrorist group they propped up themselves and continue to inflame with policies like kicking them out of their homes, the blockade, restricting their aid and food and trade, controlling their air and water space, controlling their trash, electricity, and now they've been trying to control oil found on their land.
May I suggest you don't fill your heart with hatred and learn to have some empathy for civilians that look different than you or speak different than you?
Yup, I hope you do the same. Peace
0.5% is a terrible genocide.
I'm sorry, do we have to wait for them to finish? We know their intentions, Israeli officials say it plainly, that they want to remove them all, make it uninhabitable where they live. That is the act of genocide, you piece of garbage.
I thought they only lied though. I guess you can always pick and choose which parts you believe.
They do lie, they lie all the time. Yet when they talk about their bloodthirst for genocide, dumb motherfuckers like you say, "oh haha that's so funny they're just kidding!" Y'all stupid shits of course only believe lies. Talk about picking and fuckin choosing, my god you hypocrite.
1 in 200 people. Yeah it definitely is.
Well, according to al jazeera they dropped 6000 bombs - 4000 tonnes - from Oct 7 - Oct 12.
As of 2nd Nov the number was 25000 tonnes. Let's say that's 25000 bombs.
Pretty terrible death rate for that number considering the options available.
This motherfucker wants more innocent people killed, wow. Genocider.
Nah it's a pretty good start, especially since they're using the deaths to kick everyone out of their homes into smaller and smaller areas, or forcing them into other countries. It's how the genocide on native populations has worked everywhere else, too, so we already know the playbook.
Such as?
Also, what's your definition of native?
This MFer wants to say Palestinians aren't natives of Palestine WTF. Bruh if you care about history from 2000 years ago that much you should read it.
I'm mostly talking in the US, Canada, Australia, South Africa, places in the modern period that have used settler colonialism to displace and destroy indigenous populations.
As for the playbook, generally it's you move a big population in at once, set up shop, take over, tell any locals to move over and enforce it with violence, use a treaty to keep the land and move them over permanently. Then, individuals slowly expand to their land, sometimes rogue, but usually supported by the government either way. They push the boundaries of the "given land" or take resources from it, the native population plea for help is ignored until they push back with violence, the colonizers retaliate with overwhelming force, enough to keep the land settlers have been slowly taking anyway and probably take more, the populations are displaced more, either put in a smaller box or forced to move over again. Repeat.
And God help them if there's resources revealed to be in their area, like oil.
Native Americans in the USA? Trail of tears?
dumbest thing i've read today