The takeaway for me as a leftist is that this indicates how dogshit Biden is but also how much more infininately dogshit Trump is.
We really are in the dogshitiest timeline
I guess it's cool that a few on the right are finally agreeing with progressives that Biden isn't the "radical leftist" that the fearmongerers have been pushing for the last 4 years.
Agree, 100%. The guy is friends with McConnell, which I'll never understand. How leftist can he be? He said they're friends even though they have "different political views." Ugh. Biden is what a Republican should be. And I'd be fine with that. Not the shitshow that the GOP is currently.
McConnell is pond scum. I'm okay with different political views, but I can't stand hypocritical turtleheads.
I was watching Sanders on The Colbert Report and was thinking what the timeline would look like if he hadn't gotten fucked over by the "It's Her Turn" team in 2016. I made myself sad because I think we'd be about half an Overton Window back towards sanity.
or do you go back to 2000 with the "if Gore won"
Gore did win.
Yup. Gore won and it was stolen because of some hanging chads.
Don't forget the pregnant Chads
IDK, I was there. Gore seemed like a pompous buffoon then, but he still had to be better than Mission Accomplished.
I looked at Gore's congressional record in the years after the election. The guy is one of the most genuine public servants ever in federal office. He didn't invent the Internet, but he did create a key piece of legislation that led to the Internet as we know it. Few other politicians at the time would have ever thought to bother.
I don't know what his hypothetical presidency would have been like, exactly. Political pressures often force you to set aside idealism. That may not have allowed his post-election advocacy for global warming to be quite so prominent. What I do know is that we'd likely be in a better place as a nation if he had been in office.
oh, I am also "applying current feelings to a prior time" - I voted for Bush in 2000. I think I voted McCain in 2008 too? Or maybe Palin scared me away, I can't remember. I had also just moved, maybe I missed that election.
We'd have a lock box.
Which really was just a proposal to have social security taxes be used for social security.
But Darrell Hammond saying lockbox sticks in the mind.
I thought about this the other day. Remember, Joe Lieberman was his running mate which is so often a springboard to run for POTUS. Maybe we would've gotten Obama in 2008 anyway, maybe we would've gotten the guy who would later kill the public option to healthcare reform, or maybe we would've gotten an entirely different timeline with a different POTUS in 2008 and beyond.
Yes, there are DEFINITELY some big things we would've gained in the early 00s if Gore were in the White House on 9/11 instead. But I'm so unsure of what the ripple effects would be and if they'd be good
I may be wrong but if Lieberman hadn’t been a senator anymore he probably wouldn’t’ve been beholden to the insurance lobby in CT.
The guys still a price of shit that fucked up a much better health plan though for sure. I lived in MA before and after Romney care, and even that was better than what we ended up with.
We really are in the dogshitiest timeline
No, because in that timeline they won on Jan. 6th.
Maybe that's just a different level, like this is the dogshittiest but your scenario is the satansdickiest.
Unless you're into that kind of stuff of course, not yuckin anyones yum.
:P
Be the radical leftist they're so afraid of.
Push the conversation as far left as they've pushed it right, no, much, much further. To absolutely insane territory.
Compromise isn't ever going to work, so fuck it. Make unreasonable demands. Demand true universal healthcare for all, including illegal aliens currently on the run for violent crimes. Demand paid parental leave for full time stay at home parents. Demand access to 95th trimester abortions if being a parent just ain't working for you. Mandatory sex Ed every year starting at Pre-K, taught exclusively by drag queens and pre-op trans people.
Become unhinged.
I'll be honest, I don't understand why the hell we're not already doing exactly this.
I think I was maybe three or four years old when it finally clicked that you always ask for more than you want / expect. Couldn't elucidate it as such, at the time, but I certainly can now. Corollary is that if you make reasonable demands, expecting good faith, you will get bartered down to zero. Generations of market stall sellers can attest to that one the world over.
We really are in the dogshitiest timeline
Nah, in some other slightly darker timeline the two candidates are Trump and Gym Jordan.
infininately dogshit, you say?
I don't see how this is the case? All conservatives have their heads lodged in their asses on some level, but Trump's failures are not ones of conservatism, but on a more base level. The attacks on democracy, the isolationism, and the corruption/decency factor are all considerations that the left has been asking for conservatives to give a shit about for years. While I still think this group is conservative, and thus has the whole head-in-ass problem, I don't think their choice of Biden over Trump makes a statement on anything but Biden's "decency" compared to Trump's.
I'm not arguing that Biden is some super leftist, he's obviously not. I just don't think this event reinforces that.
Oh hey look. A rich group that really didn't like Trump enought to try and support a longshot decided to be rational enough to swap their funds over to Biden.
That's what this story is, and I guess it's nice to see.
They have accepted reality is between those two and probably as much as they hate and still have Nikki's name on it (which I doubt she likes and is gonna change real soon), are pushing for the only rational enough choice when stuck between the 2.
Holy shit, I wonder if we'll finally see another Republican with a spine that doesn't collapse the second trump farts in their direction?
Lol Haley is going to be lining up to kiss the ring like all the others.
We have Biden. He's basically Reagan with less racism
Okay I'm not a big fan of the guy either but calling him basically Reagan is super disingenuous. He's without a doubt the most pro-labor president we've had in my lifetime which is admittedly a low bar but he is far from Ronald Reagan.
"Crossover votes for Haley" definitionally being Democrats actively supporting and voting Republican during a primary.
These people expecting celebration?
Deleted
And what would you have them do? Protest vote green or some other useless shit?
Honestly I don't even know why I said that. I'm deleting it. I think I misread it and responded harshly in the wrong way.
If this doesn't help convince people that Democrats are Blue Republicans, I don't know what will. She's literally part of the other party.
Keep on licking boots. That'll fix things. You've been doing the same song and dance for 40+ years and what's happened? The rich keep getting richer and everyone else keeps getting worse off. You're not going to get the results you claim to want by doing the same thing over and over and over and over.
She was running against Trump, the PAC stays against Trump... I mean yeah it's all a shit show but it's not that unreasonable. He is (and should always be) a red letter shitty candidate.
Being one-note hyperbolic just makes people disregard what you say. You don't think people wanting to avoid full fledged fascism might unite even the polarized?
The rich keep getting richer and everyone else keeps getting worse off. You’re not going to get the results you claim to want by doing the same thing over and over and over and over.
Wait, so your suggestion to this fix is to vote for Trump that gave big PERMANENT tax breaks to corporations and moderate TEMPORARY tax breaks to the rest of us? How do you square that logic?
"When 2025 draws to a close, so will many of the sweeping Trump-era GOP tax breaks established by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) of 2017. While the legislation made some tax cuts to corporate profit permanent, lowered individual tax rates will expire on Dec. 31, 2025, and will revert to pre-TCJA levels." source
Where exactly did I say to vote for Trump?
My saying doing the same thing over and over and over was perhaps too vague. I meant we shouldn't keep voting for Republicans AND Democrats and expecting them to fix things because neither have any interest in doing so. They only care about making themselves rich and their donors rich.
So... who should we vote for instead?
No no no, you should just keep throwing ad hominems at people and whining. Don't you understand what they're saying!?
They've been doing it for 40 years and it's working!
If this doesn’t help convince people that Democrats are Blue Republicans, I don’t know what will.
I already accept this. I also know what happens if the Red Republicans get to have power. That's only a line that accelerationists would want to take.
More to the point, we won't change things merely by voting, but voting has a purpose.
The takeaway for me as a leftist is that this indicates how dogshit Biden is but also how much more infininately dogshit Trump is.
We really are in the dogshitiest timeline
I guess it's cool that a few on the right are finally agreeing with progressives that Biden isn't the "radical leftist" that the fearmongerers have been pushing for the last 4 years.
Agree, 100%. The guy is friends with McConnell, which I'll never understand. How leftist can he be? He said they're friends even though they have "different political views." Ugh. Biden is what a Republican should be. And I'd be fine with that. Not the shitshow that the GOP is currently.
McConnell is pond scum. I'm okay with different political views, but I can't stand hypocritical turtleheads.
I feel like this recent episode of Hidden Brain is a very relevant discussion about this topic.
I was watching Sanders on The Colbert Report and was thinking what the timeline would look like if he hadn't gotten fucked over by the "It's Her Turn" team in 2016. I made myself sad because I think we'd be about half an Overton Window back towards sanity.
or do you go back to 2000 with the "if Gore won"
Gore did win.
Yup. Gore won and it was stolen because of some hanging chads.
Don't forget the pregnant Chads
IDK, I was there. Gore seemed like a pompous buffoon then, but he still had to be better than Mission Accomplished.
I looked at Gore's congressional record in the years after the election. The guy is one of the most genuine public servants ever in federal office. He didn't invent the Internet, but he did create a key piece of legislation that led to the Internet as we know it. Few other politicians at the time would have ever thought to bother.
I don't know what his hypothetical presidency would have been like, exactly. Political pressures often force you to set aside idealism. That may not have allowed his post-election advocacy for global warming to be quite so prominent. What I do know is that we'd likely be in a better place as a nation if he had been in office.
oh, I am also "applying current feelings to a prior time" - I voted for Bush in 2000. I think I voted McCain in 2008 too? Or maybe Palin scared me away, I can't remember. I had also just moved, maybe I missed that election.
We'd have a lock box.
Which really was just a proposal to have social security taxes be used for social security.
But Darrell Hammond saying lockbox sticks in the mind.
I thought about this the other day. Remember, Joe Lieberman was his running mate which is so often a springboard to run for POTUS. Maybe we would've gotten Obama in 2008 anyway, maybe we would've gotten the guy who would later kill the public option to healthcare reform, or maybe we would've gotten an entirely different timeline with a different POTUS in 2008 and beyond.
Yes, there are DEFINITELY some big things we would've gained in the early 00s if Gore were in the White House on 9/11 instead. But I'm so unsure of what the ripple effects would be and if they'd be good
I may be wrong but if Lieberman hadn’t been a senator anymore he probably wouldn’t’ve been beholden to the insurance lobby in CT.
The guys still a price of shit that fucked up a much better health plan though for sure. I lived in MA before and after Romney care, and even that was better than what we ended up with.
No, because in that timeline they won on Jan. 6th.
Maybe that's just a different level, like this is the dogshittiest but your scenario is the satansdickiest.
Unless you're into that kind of stuff of course, not yuckin anyones yum.
:P
Be the radical leftist they're so afraid of.
Push the conversation as far left as they've pushed it right, no, much, much further. To absolutely insane territory.
Compromise isn't ever going to work, so fuck it. Make unreasonable demands. Demand true universal healthcare for all, including illegal aliens currently on the run for violent crimes. Demand paid parental leave for full time stay at home parents. Demand access to 95th trimester abortions if being a parent just ain't working for you. Mandatory sex Ed every year starting at Pre-K, taught exclusively by drag queens and pre-op trans people.
Become unhinged.
I'll be honest, I don't understand why the hell we're not already doing exactly this.
I think I was maybe three or four years old when it finally clicked that you always ask for more than you want / expect. Couldn't elucidate it as such, at the time, but I certainly can now. Corollary is that if you make reasonable demands, expecting good faith, you will get bartered down to zero. Generations of market stall sellers can attest to that one the world over.
Nah, in some other slightly darker timeline the two candidates are Trump and Gym Jordan.
infininately dogshit, you say?
I don't see how this is the case? All conservatives have their heads lodged in their asses on some level, but Trump's failures are not ones of conservatism, but on a more base level. The attacks on democracy, the isolationism, and the corruption/decency factor are all considerations that the left has been asking for conservatives to give a shit about for years. While I still think this group is conservative, and thus has the whole head-in-ass problem, I don't think their choice of Biden over Trump makes a statement on anything but Biden's "decency" compared to Trump's.
I'm not arguing that Biden is some super leftist, he's obviously not. I just don't think this event reinforces that.
Oh hey look. A rich group that really didn't like Trump enought to try and support a longshot decided to be rational enough to swap their funds over to Biden.
That's what this story is, and I guess it's nice to see.
They have accepted reality is between those two and probably as much as they hate and still have Nikki's name on it (which I doubt she likes and is gonna change real soon), are pushing for the only rational enough choice when stuck between the 2.
Holy shit, I wonder if we'll finally see another Republican with a spine that doesn't collapse the second trump farts in their direction?
Lol Haley is going to be lining up to kiss the ring like all the others.
We have Biden. He's basically Reagan with less racism
Okay I'm not a big fan of the guy either but calling him basically Reagan is super disingenuous. He's without a doubt the most pro-labor president we've had in my lifetime which is admittedly a low bar but he is far from Ronald Reagan.
"Crossover votes for Haley" definitionally being Democrats actively supporting and voting Republican during a primary.
These people expecting celebration?
Deleted
And what would you have them do? Protest vote green or some other useless shit?
Honestly I don't even know why I said that. I'm deleting it. I think I misread it and responded harshly in the wrong way.
If this doesn't help convince people that Democrats are Blue Republicans, I don't know what will. She's literally part of the other party.
Keep on licking boots. That'll fix things. You've been doing the same song and dance for 40+ years and what's happened? The rich keep getting richer and everyone else keeps getting worse off. You're not going to get the results you claim to want by doing the same thing over and over and over and over.
She was running against Trump, the PAC stays against Trump... I mean yeah it's all a shit show but it's not that unreasonable. He is (and should always be) a red letter shitty candidate.
Being one-note hyperbolic just makes people disregard what you say. You don't think people wanting to avoid full fledged fascism might unite even the polarized?
Wait, so your suggestion to this fix is to vote for Trump that gave big PERMANENT tax breaks to corporations and moderate TEMPORARY tax breaks to the rest of us? How do you square that logic?
"When 2025 draws to a close, so will many of the sweeping Trump-era GOP tax breaks established by the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act (TCJA) of 2017. While the legislation made some tax cuts to corporate profit permanent, lowered individual tax rates will expire on Dec. 31, 2025, and will revert to pre-TCJA levels." source
Where exactly did I say to vote for Trump?
My saying doing the same thing over and over and over was perhaps too vague. I meant we shouldn't keep voting for Republicans AND Democrats and expecting them to fix things because neither have any interest in doing so. They only care about making themselves rich and their donors rich.
So... who should we vote for instead?
No no no, you should just keep throwing ad hominems at people and whining. Don't you understand what they're saying!?
They've been doing it for 40 years and it's working!
I already accept this. I also know what happens if the Red Republicans get to have power. That's only a line that accelerationists would want to take.
More to the point, we won't change things merely by voting, but voting has a purpose.